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Jay Rust posted:How many archers do you guys keep in your regular formation? Three, unless I know I'm going to be facing skeletons, in which case none. Sometimes three feels like overkill (if there is such a thing in this game) because they become absolutely brutal at later levels and can take out significant chunks of the enemy force before the lines clash.
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Apr 30, 2017 20:09
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Also 3, usually. Right now I've got 4 because a Hunter I randomly hired (because he was nicknamed the Strong, so I knew he was probably going to be at least decent) turned out to have 57*** Ranged Skill. It works because I'm fighting tons of Brigands and Necromancers, and one of the archers is Disloyal and will happily sit out fights I don't want all 4 archers for. But generally I'd prefer 3, and the Disloyal Ratcatcher will probably become a permanent reserve bro once fully leveled. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Apr 30, 2017 |
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Apr 30, 2017 21:09
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is the % bonus HP granted by Colossus a one-time bonus or does the benefit continue as you level up? What I mean is, would it be beneficial to wait until a bro is higher level with a higher HP pool to pick the perk? If you pick it with 60HP do you just get 15 bonus hp one time? If you pick it with 100HP you get 25. See what I mean?
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Apr 30, 2017 21:19
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The benefit is applied to future HP increases. Same with Fortified Mind.
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Apr 30, 2017 21:34
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Well I met my first necromancer last night. I was not expecting him to be quite so... competent. We won in the end but it was by far the costliest fight the Black Blades have yet had. This game is extremely 
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Apr 30, 2017 22:02
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My favorite pastime is one-shotting necromancers behind their bodyguards with a competent archer.
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Apr 30, 2017 22:13
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Wizard Styles posted:The benefit is applied to future HP increases. Same with Fortified Mind. Thanks!
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Apr 30, 2017 22:21
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I like having 6 to 8 archers in my regular team, personally. Archers are great. Murder who they can and overwhelm who they cant so my melee duelist dudes and two handers can tear them apart in relative safety.
GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Apr 30, 2017 |
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Apr 30, 2017 22:46
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Found something interesting just rerolling starting position. Seeds don't always spawn with the same resource nodes - in 166270 the gem mine Schachtheim only seems to be there very rarely, other times it's a ruin and doesn't produce anything.
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May 1, 2017 02:16
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Unzip and Attack posted:Found something interesting just rerolling starting position. Seeds don't always spawn with the same resource nodes - in 166270 the gem mine Schachtheim only seems to be there very rarely, other times it's a ruin and doesn't produce anything. Ruins are created by bandit raids and rebuild over time. is it still gem mine after being rebuilt?
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May 1, 2017 02:26
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GlyphGryph posted:Ruins are created by bandit raids and rebuild over time. is it still gem mine after being rebuilt? Yeah, it will come back as a gem mine eventually. The game randomly destroys a few buildings at the start of each new game.
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May 1, 2017 02:55
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By the way, I started my.current map before they made permanent destruction of communities a switch at game start. What is it by default in the launch version of the game? Because this green skin crisis has killed three of my favorite villages and not one of the places I hate.
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May 1, 2017 03:07
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half of my front line are dagger nimble dodge tanks, all of them with overwhelm I like having my enemies not be able to hit a single thing when their line hits mine
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May 1, 2017 03:19
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When I took this screenshots, I had fought orcs twice on this map: First time was when I took the first noble contract offered, which ended up sending me against a couple of Orc Warriors. One of which one-shot the starting spear bro. Worth it because reward and loot amounted to at least 2,500 and I could really get the gem/salt/fur trading started with that money. Second time was when I selected the orc-killing ambition and...couldn't find any orcs. So eventually, around day 60, I just bought food for a week and nearly maxed tools, ammo and medical supplies and headed out into the wild, determined to assault the first orc camp I'd come across. Which of course was a sea of tents complete with warlord and 5 warriors. I was in the process of upgrading from worn mail at the time. Maybe I should have finished doing that before tackling the ambition.  At least I got two unique pieces of armor out of it. I've also since established a strict no Kunolds policy. marshmallow creep posted:By the way, I started my.current map before they made permanent destruction of communities a switch at game start. What is it by default in the launch version of the game? Because this green skin crisis has killed three of my favorite villages and not one of the places I hate. Sperglord Firecock posted:half of my front line are dagger nimble dodge tanks, all of them with overwhelm I may have to go back to a map seed that I know shits out countless Thieves and Gamblers at some point. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 05:11 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 05:06
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Has anyone tried making an orc-weapons specialist?
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May 1, 2017 13:02
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Jay Rust posted:Has anyone tried making an orc-weapons specialist? It's not much different from how you'd normally make a brother, except you'd want fatigue every level because of the massive fatigue cost with orc weapons, and probably want to take either flail or axe mastery (for their 2h flails and axes). I don't think it's really worth it when a greatsword offers good damage and the variability of 1,2 and 3 target hitting.
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May 1, 2017 13:12
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what's the best two handed weapon to give my 2handed specialist brothers ?
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May 1, 2017 14:57
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Hammers and swords do the trick. Often easier to hit several dudes with the sword. I'm experimenting with a axe guy as well. Liking the sword guys better so far. Also started getting quick hands due to the 6 action points for attacks
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May 1, 2017 15:08
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Sloober posted:It's not much different from how you'd normally make a brother, except you'd want fatigue every level because of the massive fatigue cost with orc weapons, and probably want to take either flail or axe mastery (for their 2h flails and axes). I think an Iron Lung Madman could do the trick by itself. Iron Lungs counters the extra fatigue per use, assuming you use a 2hander that gets one attack a turn, and a Madman's base Stamina bonus basically cancels out the increased equip load. You may not even need a Madman if you can get a good base with stars for Fatigue or lucky rolls, of course. I had a pile of orc weapons in a previous run but never messed with it as I was ahead of the curve weapons wise anyway, but it would be fun swinging that huge chain flail around.
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May 1, 2017 15:18
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Kanthulhu posted:what's the best two handed weapon to give my 2handed specialist brothers ? Greatswords are the most versatile by far. Question for the thread: rotation or footwork on two hander Bros? I used to always take footwork but I'm getting more and more use out of rotation. I'm tempted to revise my guide to advise taking it much earlier.
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May 1, 2017 15:41
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Jay Rust posted:Has anyone tried making an orc-weapons specialist? I give every brother with iron lungs a head chopper, it's honestly really really good. 1) It has the highest damage of all 1-hand weapons. Nothing comes close. 2) With the perk a chop costs 13 stamina, which is perfectly doable with iron lungs. 3) Seriously, it does a ton of damage: a 1-hand chopper can easily compete with a 2-hand weapon master. (chopper does more single target damage, 2-hand weapons more aoe) 4) You can get the weapon quite early, usually much earlier than the other lategame weapons. 5) The damage vs armor is pretty good as well. 6) The bleed effect is a nice bonus. quote:Question for the thread: rotation or footwork on two hander Bros? I used to always take footwork but I'm getting more and more use out of rotation. I'm tempted to revise my guide to advise taking it much earlier. Always rotation on melee brothers. Always. You can always put down a doggy and rotate with it in the same turn to get away if there's no other brother nearby which can take your place. (once you can afford it you should have a doggy on every melee bro, but try to avoid using them as much as possible) I'm playing expert difficulty now and rotation is always my third perk for melee bros (first two are always a combination of pathfinder, student, gifted and colossus). Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 15:57 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 15:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Greatswords are the most versatile by far. For 2H Bros? footwork. Rotation is more than enough, if you're just pulling injured Bros out of the fire. But if you plan on using that Bro as a flanker, footwork is superior.
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May 1, 2017 15:51
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On the one hand, I do think rotation is more useful in hard fights when you need to shuffle injured bros around or move heavy hitters in and out of the front line. I tend to take it on my sword/hammer/reach 2handers for this reason. On the other hand, if your shield bros all have rotation and you plan your formations well, you don't really need it on your 2handers (until you gently caress up a turn and forget to shuffle people properly). Footwork is better as a positioning tool on axe/chain 2handers since you typically don't want a bro next to you, and footwork can also be used to completely disengage if you decide to flee after you've already engaged or need to get an unsupported bro out of the poo poo. They both have their uses.
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May 1, 2017 15:57
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Greatswords are the most versatile by far. Personally I'd probably try to go with both if I could but if I had to choose it would be rotation. I usually try to keep a coherent frontline, and my 2H bros are usually my elite guys whereas my 1H brothers are often in training. So since my 2H brothers usually have stamina to spare and are quite tanky, it makes it a lot easier for them to step in for a 1H brother who's on the ropes shieldwalling for his life and tapped out on stamina if my 2H brother has rotation himself.
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May 1, 2017 16:06
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I like 2h axe for its sheer single target damage because it hits head and body, but round swing is more of a gimmick than something you count on. I like setting them either dead middle to move into a job with footwork to swing, or have them hold flanks by standing a tile apart from the rest of the line. Personally I count on footwork on 2hander brothers and rotation on shield users.
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May 1, 2017 16:55
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Am I being too picky with picking up archers? What should the starting stats of a good archer look like? I keep getting 2 and 3 star ranged guys with like 35-40 starting ranged skill. Is that sufficient?
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May 1, 2017 17:10
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Good question. Each star is worth about 5 points of skill, statistically speaking. So no stars is 20 points added by level 11 and three stars is 35. You want to end up somewhere north of 75 points total, imho, so personally I'd consider 40 points the floor for ranged skill, though I like to have one bowyer just in case the bow event procs. On ironman you might be less discriminatory. Edit: that's for bow archers. Farmers and the like with 35 base but three stars in ranged can be turned into great crossbowmen. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 17:26 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 17:24
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Good question. For ranged bros, starting ranged values are better than stars. With 35 base ranged + three star growth, I'd be highly tempted to pick fast adaptation as my first perk. That way, they'd actually contribute at early levels. But a 50 base ranged + zero star growth can occasionally hit things without offensive perks, allowing you to pick between recover, pathfinder, and colossus.
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May 1, 2017 17:42
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Remember that ranged skill grows faster than other skills. the average for no stars is 30 gained by lv11 not 20
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May 1, 2017 17:46
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Yeah that's a playstyle difference I think. I really don't like offensive perks -- it always feels like I'm wasting a slot. There are only so many perk slots and they go at a premium vs. stat points.
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May 1, 2017 17:48
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GlyphGryph posted:Remember that ranged skill grows faster than other skills. the average for no stars is 30 gained by lv11 not 20 Correct!
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May 1, 2017 17:54
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That means someone with 60 base and no stars will still hit the 90s most of the time, potentially higher. Minimum 80 and max 100. I like to give these guys crossbows and do massive damage and the perks to match. 35 base skill and three stars averages about 80 so still acceptable but not great and they will be a lot less useful a lot longer. Tops out at 85, bottoms out at 75. Still occassionally beats that base 60 recruit by the end though... assuming he lives long enough. I would actually focus on an overwhelm based build for these guys though since the stars mean reliable accuracy boosts whenever you roll bad for one of the primary skills of init and fatigue and ranged defense and aim to have him in the mid 60s but a super reliable debuff archer with a bow. The "one star equals five points" equation still holds true but good to remember if backloads your gains and leaves you a bit more at the mercy of chance. I also always throw gifted on my archers for that extra 4 points of ranged attack accuracy, initiative, and fatigue. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 18:04 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 18:01
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Is it possible for any background to start with a flat sixty in ranged? I thought hunters maxed out at about 55.
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May 1, 2017 18:06
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Is it possible for any background to start with a flat sixty in ranged? I thought hunters maxed out at about 55. Hunters average 57 according to our goon stat bro, and I've had them start at 60+ more than once. Regarding stars on archers, my latest preference is initiative and melee skill. Note these two from my latest game.  This guy is the companion archer you start with. I typically pump ranged skill and initiative (with dodge) with the rest being thrown to ranged def (with anticipation), morale, stamina, and melee def depending on rolls. This build was in response to my early experiences of archers being great until you get to goblins or arbalesters who will occasionally one shot them if you don't jack their ranged defense a bit. He has a long axe to help knock out undead legion shields and take an occasional swing at surrounded enemies. Overwhelm plus high init makes him helpful even against orc warriors and warlords who he does hilariously low damage against. A pretty standard build. I built pretty much all my archers like this for a few games until I stumbled across this poacher in my latest one:  His starting ranged skill was 61, so despite no stars there or in init I went with him. I decided to try a bit more of a glass cannon build and went with melee/ranged skill every level and then padded the other stats depending on rolls and need. Functionally, this guy is no different as a ranged user, but holy poo poo he can bring pain when poo poo gets up close too. His initiative is still high enough for overwhelm to be useful, and one huge loving hit + overwhelm on a beef target with an axe vs two overwhelms and almost no damage is great. He can also reliably wreck necrosavants even if there's only two bros adjacent. You do have to ensure that he's not open for lunch service against necrosavs because they can easily connect with him, but I also typically uparmor him for those fights since you're not going to out-initiative them anyway. So yeah, my next game will feature a backline of melee starred hunters and poachers if I have my way. EDIT: This dude was a poacher, not a hunter, mb! aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 19:57 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 19:01
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I really enjoy seeing the variety of builds that work for people. I've read SO many guides that say "ignore gifted and extra pockets they are worthless" yet here I see posters using those and loving it.
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May 1, 2017 20:49
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Wait, you can hold more quivers in the alternate weapons slots?! poo poo. Newbie question - what's the difference between bows and crossbows in terms of their ease of use? I don't see anything in the stats that reflects the statement that bows take more skills to use. Do they just have a naturally lower hit % or something? And what's the advantage of building someone to use crossbows over bows, anyway? I've never used an xbow other than the one your starting archer comes with.
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May 1, 2017 21:07
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Unzip and Attack posted:I really enjoy seeing the variety of builds that work for people. I've read SO many guides that say "ignore gifted and extra pockets they are worthless" yet here I see posters using those and loving it. If you think archers without bags and belts is a good idea it just means you've probably never gotten to the undead event. Berserk + a warbow = up to 3 dead freshly rez'd zombies a turn. Recover and B&B lets you keep that up for an entire 20+ enemy fight which is super useful because, surprise, almost anything can revive during the undead event, not just wiedergangers! Rotten Red Rod posted:Wait, you can hold more quivers in the alternate weapons slots?! poo poo. Check attack tooltips for bonuses to hit. Crossbows come with +15% chance. This is a T2 bow vs a T1 Xbow. In general, crossbows have better hit chance and better armor penetration per shot, but only one shot per round and shorter range.  
aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 21:16 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 21:07
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aparmenideanmonad posted:Check attack tooltips for bonuses to hit. Crossbows come with +15% chance. Ahhh ok. For some reason I don't remember seeing that much detail on the tooltip, I swear I looked for it... Ah well. Edit: Ohhh ATTACK tooltips, I was just looking at the weapon tooltip. Got it.
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May 1, 2017 21:14
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Wait, you can hold more quivers in the alternate weapons slots?! poo poo. Crossbows are the poo poo in a noble war or against armored wiedergangers. 50% of the damage on a heavy crossbow ignores armor, and crossbow mastery is another 20%. Zweihanders, billmen, and sergeants get wrecked by crossbows and they're pretty decent against footmen too.
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May 1, 2017 21:22
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I've been hunting for a juggler with good (for a juggler) ranged stats so I can try a headhunting crossbow build with him. Just got a unique tier 2 crossbow that out-stats the tier 3 one too.
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May 1, 2017 21:23
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