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Orange Crush Rush posted:No it's definitely not great when you feel like playing Valla/Jaina/Lunara/Naz/Whatever but whoops can't because Valeera still has like a 75%+ pickrate in QM lmao Jaina and Valla have a huge instant cast AoE to reveal Valeera. Lunara has a level 1 talent to keep Valeera revealed. Naz is the only one that should have a huge problem and he gets ice block at 13. Are you sure you're not thinking of Zeratul or something?
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May 1, 2017 14:54
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Because it's just the easiest god drat thing in the world to constantly look for a slight shimmer and save your main DPS cooldown for that when you also have the entire rest of the team looking to rip your face off you got it man. Also I'm not exactly defending Zeratul or anything either, both characters can rot in hell they just make this game so degenerate. Orange Crush Rush fucked around with this message at 15:03 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 15:00
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bamhand posted:Jaina and Valla have a huge instant cast AoE to reveal Valeera. Lunara has a level 1 talent to keep Valeera revealed. Naz is the only one that should have a huge problem and he gets ice block at 13. Are you sure you're not thinking of Zeratul or something? Self-cast zombies as Nazeebo and step out before they spawn.
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May 1, 2017 15:06
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Orange Crush Rush posted:Because it's just the easiest god drat thing in the world to constantly look for a slight shimmer and save your main DPS cooldown for that when you also have the entire rest of the team looking to rip your face off you got it man. A poor carpenter blames his tools or something like that
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May 1, 2017 15:09
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Have you considered that when you reveal them your team has the opportunity to rip their face off? I can sort of understand if you're silver league and the Valeera is master or something and then they rip your team to shreds, but that's a matchmaking problem. Generally speaking, the Valeera is going to be poo poo and a detriment to their team. That's why in ranked people desperately do not want their teammates to pick her.HelixFox posted:Self-cast zombies as Nazeebo and step out before they spawn. If they open with stun or silence you'll often be dead before the zombies accomplish anything. I think she's a bigger issue for Naz because even if you see her it's really hard to land a spell to reveal.
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May 1, 2017 15:09
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I think a lot of the stealth chat is hyperbolic as hell, but i didn't realize the graphical settings can make the shimmer not appear, That IS a problem.
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May 1, 2017 15:10
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Yeah they're garbage characters who make the game more annoying, and telling people what game types they should play or to play heroes they don't find enjoyable is not cool. It's a video game, it's supposed to be fun. I don't know why y'all are so eager to defend these heroes that make quick match worse, it's weird video game elitist poo poo.
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May 1, 2017 15:12
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Hot Smart ARYAN Girl posted:Yeah they're garbage characters who make the game more annoying, and telling people what game types they should play or to play heroes they don't find enjoyable is not cool. It's a video game, it's supposed to be fun. Nova is garbage now, and Zeratul and Valeera are both under a 50 percent win rate. Like... I'm not trying to be a dick, but if there's a Zeratul or Valeera on the opposing team, you should be aware and play accordingly just as though there were any other flanking character
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May 1, 2017 15:12
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bamhand posted:If they open with stun or silence you'll often be dead before the zombies accomplish anything. I think she's a bigger issue for Naz because even if you see her it's really hard to land a spell to reveal. If you're being diligent about getting stacks you'll have enough health the survive the initial burst. Unless you're hanging around by yourself at below 75% health and, well, don't do that. Stealth characters aren't that powerful at the end of the day but they're annoying to play against, which is the issue.
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May 1, 2017 15:14
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Hot Smart ARYAN Girl posted:Yeah they're garbage characters who make the game more annoying, and telling people what game types they should play or to play heroes they don't find enjoyable is not cool. It's a video game, it's supposed to be fun. It's good to have variety in a video game. You're not going to make everyone happy all the time. I like Chromie and she's certainly strong in certain situations but I don't slam first pick her every game because stealth heroes and dive exists. The game should not remove all stealth and dive heroes because I like to play Chromie.
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May 1, 2017 15:14
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Nova is garbage now, and Zeratul and Valeera are both under a 50 percent win rate. I didn't say they won games, I said they make QM more annoying.
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May 1, 2017 15:14
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Hot Smart ARYAN Girl posted:I didn't say they won games, I said they make QM more annoying. Tons of heroes make QM "more annoying." Personally, Hammer drives me up a loving wall. You know who are good Hammer counters? Zeratul and Valeera.
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May 1, 2017 15:17
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Hot Smart ARYAN Girl posted:I didn't say they won games, I said they make QM more annoying. If you're playing QM then just dick around and enjoy the game. It doesn't matter if you win or lose. You're the only one keeping yourself from having fun.
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May 1, 2017 15:17
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Tons of heroes make QM "more annoying." Personally, Hammer drives me up a loving wall. This but Zagara, Sylvanas, and Probius need to be added to the list. At least the stealthers come to objectives and fight over them.
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May 1, 2017 15:19
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Just ban every hero except Raynor. They all make the game unfun.
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May 1, 2017 15:22
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Stealth is just a terrible idea in any multiplayer game, it always has been and it always will be.
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May 1, 2017 15:24
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I just don't understand how people think they can trick others into thinking "spend the entire match looking for the hard to find shimmer" is fun and rewarding gameplay for everyone involved.
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May 1, 2017 15:24
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QM is the official "game doesn't matter" mode and you personally will almost never contribute to your team's wins or losses, as that was more or less decided at the hero select screen.
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May 1, 2017 15:25
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had no idea people had such strong opinions about stealth in this game or in any game
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May 1, 2017 15:33
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Hate to get all "git gud" on people but the current stealth characters aren't really that strong in this game. Valeera doesn't seem to have enough burst to 100-0 anyone, ever, and her playstyle comes with a massive risk of being spotted and killed, and her combo can be thoroughly nullified with a timely support spell. I think the complaints stem mainly from the fact that squishy backliner players don't expect to be in any danger even though that shouldn't be a guarantee. This game shouldn't be like a MMO dungeon where you can just safely put out DPS behind your tank. Picking squishy ranged DPS heroes should definitely come with the risk of being countered with bursty melee assassins. If you don't want to be bursted down as a squishy ranged hero, consider picking less squishy heroes (Zul'jin has a good ult against burst) or consider picking stronger supports/peelers. There is plenty of counterplay to Valeera anyway. Even her ranged ambush talent doesn't have that much range that you couldn't still see her coming with proper positioning. As soon as Valeera loses her stealth, she's pretty much worthless. And it's not like I don't hate bursty stealth heroes myself. I loathe playing against Slark in Dota 2, but in that game Slark is actually a true dickhead stealth character. If you think Valeera is bad, imagine the same hero but not even half-visible while stealthed while having capability to deal twice as much damage, 3 escape abilities, immunity to CC and he's also unrevealable for 4 seconds while still able to attack and oh by the way he also regens about 5% of his HP pool a second whenever he's not in vision. He also burns mana, steals HP and gains attack speed whenever he attacks a hero Also lol at the guy complaining that they have to save an AoE skill to completely nullify another hero on the enemy team, like that is some outrageous demand for the game to make of them Minorkos fucked around with this message at 15:39 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 15:33
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I must use all my abilities on cooldown - the average Assassin
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May 1, 2017 15:35
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exquisite tea posted:QM is the official "game doesn't matter" mode and you personally will almost never contribute to your team's wins or losses, as that was more or less decided at the hero select screen.
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May 1, 2017 15:38
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Polio Vax Scene posted:I must use all my abilities on cooldown It's a DPS loss if you don't! Ein Sexmonster posted:Sorry, you're just flatly wrong. The existence of more variance/confounding factors just increases the number of games it takes for your winrate/MMR to reflect your skill. This is the same fallacy as 'elo hell' - that your performance is not reflective of your skill, but of factors outside your control. Sort of. About 70% of my ranked games lately have been massively unfavored, like +25 point disparity. Games are nearly impossible to win at that point no matter what you do. Sample size is "small" as in ~25 games so maybe it'll change over 100+ but the poo poo matchmaking sure is frustrating.
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May 1, 2017 15:38
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I just don't understand how people think they can trick others into thinking "spend the entire match looking for the hard to find shimmer" is fun and rewarding gameplay for everyone involved. I just don't understand how people think they can trick others into thinking "spend the entire match looking for <Genji/Tracer/Dehaka/Falstad> is fun and rewarding gameplay for all involved." Flanking is literally part of the game. If you're Jaina and you're at the enemy gate alone, and you know there's a stealther or ANY of those characters on the enemy team, you are misplaying if your eyes are not peeled.
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May 1, 2017 15:43
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I'm at like 60% QM WR on Valeera, a cool and fun character
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May 1, 2017 15:49
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To be honest I don't like the "spot the glimmer" gameplay either. I think stealth should work as like a proximity thing, as in stealth gets revealed when you're close to the dude. And then rebalance the stealth heroes to work with that mechanic.
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May 1, 2017 15:49
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:I just don't understand how people think they can trick others into thinking "spend the entire match looking for <Genji/Tracer/Dehaka/Falstad> is fun and rewarding gameplay for all involved." Those aren't the characters that make people want to quit, because they aren't in every QM game. There's a reason you see way more complaints about stealths than the characters you mentioned. Pretending that there are as many complaints about them or that they are the same is being willfully dense. The fact that they are such a hot button issue and that they make people quit the game is a problem, no matter how good you are at avoiding them.
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May 1, 2017 15:52
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I think people don't like stealth characters because they're ashamed of getting owned too hard
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May 1, 2017 15:54
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raynor vs raynor no items final destination
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May 1, 2017 15:56
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Genji is definitely in every QM game right now, just like Tracer was in every QM game at OW launch when she came out. I honestly don't see Zeratul very often.
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May 1, 2017 15:56
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Philip Rivers posted:I think people don't like stealth characters because they're ashamed of getting owned too hard Acknowledging that you are bad at video games is the first step toward enlightenment. For it is only the noob who thinks he is good.
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May 1, 2017 15:56
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You have a minimap. Not spotting the glimmer is not what kills you, its being out of position when there are missing opponents on the map.
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May 1, 2017 15:58
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Minorkos posted:To be honest I don't like the "spot the glimmer" gameplay either. I think stealth should work as like a proximity thing, as in stealth gets revealed when you're close to the dude. And then rebalance the stealth heroes to work with that mechanic. I'd be fine if they stole leagues updated stealth mechanics and gave an indicator if a stealth enemy is close (think rengars ult). Plus adding that would retroactively give Nova q niche since she could deal her burst combo without being spotted.
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May 1, 2017 15:57
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Nephzinho posted:You have a minimap. Not spotting the glimmer is not what kills you, its being out of position when there are missing opponents on the map.
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May 1, 2017 15:59
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I thought we were talking about the laning phase. In a teamfight just stay close to a healer/tank/revealer/anyone with a root/stun you'll be fine. Also any dps.
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May 1, 2017 16:00
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:I think a lot of the stealth chat is hyperbolic as hell, but i didn't realize the graphical settings can make the shimmer not appear, That IS a problem. I don't believe this is true at all. Pro players play on low settings and I don't think they would give up seeing stealth shimmer. I know it works on high/ultra settings. Maybe somewhere in the middle, but I highly doubt it.
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May 1, 2017 16:05
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beejay posted:I don't believe this is true at all. Pro players play on low settings and I don't think they would give up seeing stealth shimmer. I know it works on high/ultra settings. Maybe somewhere in the middle, but I highly doubt it. Oh someone said it a few pages ago when the "stealth is op" chart began
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May 1, 2017 16:06
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Y'all are still missing my point, the perception that stealth is worse than other characters that punish bad positioning is bad enough. If something makes many, many players enjoy the game less, even if it's not as unbalanced as they perceive it, that is bad enough. That is why blizzard nerfed Valeera. They heard all of the complaints, and despite they themselves designing the character, they recognized the problem. That is why it is my opinion that stealth in multiplayer games is a bad idea.
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May 1, 2017 16:08
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To be honest, my problem with stealth characters on your team is that from most of my games, they just sit around and watch the team die then try jumping onto a low target in the middle of 4 other heroes and immediately get chunked to death. I don't feel like there is an inherit problem with stealth, it just needs to be played around. At least HotS is better than other MOBA's that implement stealth in that the shimmer does exist rather than just being completely invisible and coming out of nowhere.
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May 1, 2017 16:16
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Tracer or MOTHERFUCKING LUNARA running you down to your inevitable death is way more annoying than any stealth hero.
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May 1, 2017 16:18
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