|
I just wanted to say that I killed a Jaina like five times last game I played as Valeera because she kept being extremely ownable and I bet she was mad about it irl
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 18:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 16:19 |
|
|
Play a tank or bruiser to survive stealthies you say?  https://clips.twitch.tv/DreamyUnusualBoarFreakinStinkin
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 18:42
|
|
|
Philip Rivers posted:I just wanted to say that I killed a Jaina like five times last game I played as Valeera because she kept being extremely ownable and I bet she was mad about it irl Uuugh all I want to do is solo this fort while my team is trying to get the objective halfway across the map and this loving Valeera just keeps owning me from half a health. Uuuugh, what a bullshit hero. BrianBoitano posted:Play a tank or bruiser to survive stealthies you say? Haha, loving Rich. If you're complaining about stealth heroes because it's goddamned Rich playing them in every single on of your games then yeah, I'm totally behind you. gently caress stealth heroes.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 18:41
|
|
|
At its core, the concept of imperfect information is what drives competitive gameplay. Batting a lobbed ball is a simple task and its execution is really all about personal mechanics: have you held a bat before, is your hand/eye coordination practiced, and so on. Lobbed balls can be fun to hit, but once you've hit a hundred they get pretty boring. It also makes for an awful spectator experience. Batting a ball thrown by a pitcher is much more intense. Pitchers have perfected some throws where the ball goes down and then comes back up. OP, I know. The batter has to have his mechanics down AND understand where the ball is going to go. Even after the thousandth hit, this is still engaging for the player. It also makes for a compelling spectator sport. HOTS is batting lobbed balls all day long. Once you know your opponents heroes and talent choices, there isn't much mystery to what they're going to do. You can even see your opponents mana bars -- crazy! It's nearly all mechanics and execution. Where's the imperfect information in HOTS? Where your opponents will aim their spells and their position on the map (if they're in the fog of war). Those are the two levers that blizzard gave themselves for providing a competitive experience. Stealth ramps up the imperfect information a little... but just a little. If you're competent at managing the already-present facet of gameplay known as "map awareness", then stealth is more of a mechanical problem (your targeted spells do not work) than anything else.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 18:43
|
|
|
BrianBoitano posted:Play a tank or bruiser to survive stealthies you say?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 18:47
|
|
|
Mind over Matter posted:Wait what they are? Yeah there was a QA on Reddit a while ago, Morales as getting looked at next after Uther. Nothing has really come up about it though. Also if I'm not supposed to play QM anymore then why the gently caress does everyone only ever play QM in the SA groups. Doing anything solo draft is also just asking to get trolled as well. Orange Crush Rush fucked around with this message at 18:55 on May 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 18:52
|
|
|
Changing in any way a hero because of QM is a really dumb thing to do in a "competitive" game. They should just rework the whole queue system entirely or leave it to rot. e: I pretty much only play solo draft unranked and I get a trolly no healer/tank comp maybe once every 20 games. I mean you see some horrible drafts sometimes, sure, but at least it's nothing unplayable like QM with its 10 assassins.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:02
|
|
|
I play QM because I only know how to play three heroes
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:06
|
|
|
Nova, Zeratul, and now Valeera have low or mediocre winrates in QM, so I'm not sure what people are complaining about, and they're either marginally better or even worse in draft. None of them is capable of 100-0 even the squishest heroes until like level 20 (sometimes) so as long as you have some map awareness the stealth isn't really that relevant--you should always be able to retaliate/retreat reasonably. Both Nova and Valeera are sort of all in when attacking out of stealth. Zeratul can do crazy blink attacks...but he's literally the second worst hero in QM.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:08
|
|
|
Orange Crush Rush posted:Also if I'm not supposed to play QM anymore then why the gently caress does everyone only ever play QM in the SA groups. That's a really good question. Everyone saying "QM sucks" is really at odds with 90% of goon-ups being QM.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:25
|
|
|
I think unranked draft is the better option if you want to mess around but don't want the clownshow 5 assassin groups of QM.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:27
|
|
|
HotS 2.0: Gently Pounded in the Butt by the Undetectable Glimmer of Stealth
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:29
|
|
|
Going for hard 100-0 picks isn't even the right way to play Valeera. That she brings stealth and CC means you can hand your teammates ganks on a silver platter and if you're in and out of a lane skirmish, she can chunk and bail with Cheap Shot/Garrote > Blade Flurry > Evis > Sinister Strike away before they can follow up.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:30
|
|
|
Unrelated to the conversation, is there any way to make HOTS reliably open on a secondary monitor without having to move it there every time I load it up or swapping it to primary?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:33
|
|
|
ninguno posted:That's a really good question. Everyone saying "QM sucks" is really at odds with 90% of goon-ups being QM. The thing is if one person in a 5 stack wants to do QM that's what they end up doing, because people who prefer draft are like meh whatever we're a 5 stack anyway, and the guy who wants QM is like noooo please not draft you guys
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:32
|
|
|
If you play draft you can ban these perfidious stealth heroes!
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:35
|
|
|
porfiria posted:Nova, Zeratul, and now Valeera have low or mediocre winrates in QM, so I'm not sure what people are complaining about, and they're either marginally better or even worse in draft. This is what happens in Overwatch too to a sizable extent. Pointing out winrates and pick percentages doesn't really matter because "unfun" doesn't care about things like that, a bunch of people still want Symmetra nerfed because they can't deal with a bunnyhopping character with a microwave beam that locks onto them. ninguno posted:That's a really good question. Everyone saying "QM sucks" is really at odds with 90% of goon-ups being QM. People probably do QM if I had to guess because it's the mode where you 100% guaranteed get to play the character you want. If you really want to play Ragnaros and they either get banned or the enemy team grabs him first then you're stuck.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:43
|
|
|
Ein Sexmonster posted:This doesn't really say anything about stealth heroes though, just that Rich is really mechanically skilled and can outplay the poo poo out of his opponent. Well that's the heart of the matter. People aren't complaining about the Nova who walks up, autos you out of stealth, and then gets blown up. What people DID complain about, a lot, was Taunt Varian with warbringer stun. It wasn't mechanically skilled and it wasn't a good gameplay experience for anyone from bronze to GM. So there has to be a component of your enemy has to be somewhat good with their stealth hero, or noone would care.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:46
|
|
|
SKULL.GIF posted:If you play draft you can ban these perfidious stealth heroes! And then get no healers or tanks because you banned someone's waifu and now they want to waste the next 20 minutes of your life.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:45
|
|
|
SKULL.GIF posted:If you play draft you can ban these perfidious stealth heroes! Perfidy would be if you appeared to enemies as if you were their ally or a neutral merc. TF2 Spy for next hero 
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:49
|
|
|
If you think about it, this week's Brawl is the most balanced experience and they should just replace all characters with Tracer
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:53
|
|
|
They should replace the shimmer with voice clips of the stealth hero constantly talking poo poo about nearby opposing players, and about how super-balanced stealth is and if you don't like it you're a big anti-stealth bigot who needs to check your privilege and  .It would have the added benefit of the stealth players getting to be even more of an aggressive oval office than under the old system.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
Orange Crush Rush posted:And then get no healers or tanks because you banned someone's waifu and now they want to waste the next 20 minutes of your life. I mean if you don't want to play quickmatch because there's a chance you'll go up against characters you don't like and you don't want to do draft because there's a chance people will be dicks, fundamentally it seems like the problem is that you don't really want a multiplayer game.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
Good thing mobas are in fact multiplayer games for people who hate multiplayer games.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 19:59
|
|
|
i play QM because it's... quicker.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 20:03
|
|
|
We all signed the acknowledgment that mobas are the worst genre when we started. Also yeah, QM saves 10 minutes of drafting time with the guy who's tilted after the first pick. chumbler fucked around with this message at 20:09 on May 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 20:06
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:I mean if you don't want to play quickmatch because there's a chance you'll go up against characters you don't like and you don't want to do draft because there's a chance people will be dicks, fundamentally it seems like the problem is that you don't really want a multiplayer game. I mean, if you get a clown fiesta of a comp in QM, chances are they have one as well (unless Varian, because well he's Varian) You get two last pickerers that throws it all away because he/she can't pick thier anime ninja bro or titty elf you still gotta go against an actual real team
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 20:14
|
|
|
I never played HotS before, but have wasted years of video game time on dota, HoN, and dota2. Haven't played any moba in a few years. Finally decided to try this because of the 20 hero bundle deal. Anyone on the fence should at least log in and grab the deal, try a match or two. The biggest thing stopping me from trying HotS in the past was not having enough heroes. I am not dedicated to playing a single role, even more so a single hero. Trying to grind out a useful pool of heroes sounded awful. Getting the hero bundle fixed this completely. Starting with your account at level 1, you will get tons of loot crates, and probably a few free heroes from loot before you can even finish trying out the 20 you started with. I have been a high MMR tryhard in dota, but I absolutely love the casual mechanics here. Shorter matches, fantastic. Combining skill level-ups and items into talents is perfect. The Overwatch style XP/loot treadmill is very well designed IMO, you still get cool stuff even if you have a bad match or series of terrible matches. Maybe my opinion will change after a few hundred matches, but starting 2.0 as a fresh player I'm quite happy. I think I'm just burned out/tired of tryharding like I did in dota. Of the heroes I have tried so far, I really like Nazeebo and Azmodan. Both have potential to push lanes, but can be built to do serious damage in teamfights. Nazeebo with the channeled ghost ult in particular is a pile of AoE damage with a decent trap/root skill. What other heroes play similarly? I just got Gazlowe out of a chest, tried a game with him. The turrets are good for pushing and teamfights, and landing a full-charge laser is satisfying. I also wanted to say solo queue low/no MMR matches are absolute poo poo as a hard support. I tried Abathur and people would run back into base when I infested them, as if I was an enemy debuff floating over their head. Throw any kind of 4 second buff on your teamates and they will flee away from the objective they were just capping. Big meat guy gets really mad that you didn't follow him into a 1v5 to heal him. It's all bad. It's poo poo. 
WITCHCRAFT fucked around with this message at 20:23 on May 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 20:15
|
|
|
p-hop posted:Trying to grind out a useful pool of heroes sounded awful. Getting the hero bundle fixed this completely. Semi-related: is your quest: play 3 games vs. AI quest bugged? Lower-right exclamation mark when you're not in game. Some folks on reddit are saying theirs is, and they can't complete it or get any other quests until it's done. Someone ITT was saying they weren't getting credit yesterday.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 20:23
|
|
|
Why do people keep saying mobas, the acronym is FARTS (Free Action Real Time Strategy)
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 20:22
|
|
|
Orange Crush Rush posted:I just don't understand how people think they can trick others into thinking "spend the entire match looking for the hard to find shimmer" is fun and rewarding gameplay for everyone involved. play smarter, not harder. barring a few hero exceptions (like chromie, and even she has ways to play around stealth ganks via fast recall, stasis traps, short cooldown detection, ice block, etc) stealth heroes can't kill you 100 to 0 from stealth without you having a chance to retaliate. instead of playing like zeratul's visibility in lane matter, play against stealth heroes like there's a butcher on the enemy team and you can't see him on the minimap. you'll find that their sub 50% win rates make a lot more sense after that. should we remove fog of war next for making it too hard to figure out where the enemy team is? do all blink and movement displacing abilities need to be culled for making it too hard to predict a hero's location?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 20:24
|
|
|
BrianBoitano posted:Semi-related: is your quest: play 3 games vs. AI quest bugged? Lower-right exclamation mark when you're not in game. It works for me, don't know if it blocks other quests since it's the first thing I did when logging in. Nice and easy warmup.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 20:26
|
|
|
p-hop posted:I never played HotS before, but have wasted years of video game time on dota, HoN, and dota2. Haven't played any moba in a few years. Finally decided to try this because of the 20 hero bundle deal. Anyone on the fence should at least log in and grab the deal, try a match or two. You're going to definitely have games where players aren't familiar with certain spell effects, or react poorly to map pings or whatever else makes you facepalm. We've all done it. I suggest jumping in the goon discord and playing games with them, it's much better than playing pubs, especially when the whole team gets in on voice chat.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 20:27
|
|
|
Hot Smart ARYAN Girl posted:Yes I know, but they are obviously perceived that way by people trying to pick up the game, and that is a problem. There, I'm done, y'all can go back to whatever. That's because stealth characters punish bad positioning. It's not stealth that gets the gate-pushing solo Jaina killed, but it's an easy scapegoat. Against stealth heroes, you should behave the same way you would for any other missing enemy who could ambush you at any moment. When you do that, stealth just because an issue of spell targeting. BrianBoitano posted:Play a tank or bruiser to survive stealthies you say? This is actually a Dehaka too busy getting baited by B-stepping to notice the minion wave chipping his health. Toady fucked around with this message at 20:35 on May 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 20:30
|
|
|
frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Why do people keep saying mobas, the acronym is FARTS (Free Action Real Time Strategy) Or as might be more appropriate for such a stealth-blessed game, ASSFAGGOTS.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 20:38
|
|
|
Toady posted:This is actually a Dehaka too busy getting baited by B-stepping to notice the minion wave chipping his health. If Malf didn't pop a heal at mid Rich would've died in the bush. That about sums it up.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 20:48
|
|
|
Eraflure posted:Good thing mobas are in fact competitive games for people who hate competitive games. Honestly this (with my slight edit). I think a large part of the appeal of these games is how they distill down basic game tropes. Every game I can execute a different "power fantasy", with the standard rpg progression loop compressed down to about half an hour. I get to make build choices, progress my character, and optimize my own gameplay. It's just an inconvenient fact that I have to do it in the framework of a 5v5 competitive game instead of something like a hero defense. Why no one has executed a proper PvE mode in these games is an absolute mystery to me and I suspect it would be wildly popular. The few data points I have seen in LoL and HotS have the vsAi game modes being extremely populated, even if you adjust for leveling bots. That being said, that's not the only reason that I personally play. I'm extremely competitive but at this point in my life don't have the time to practice the mechanics I'd need to compete in an FPS or fighting game, so I derp around in MOBA's because the mechanical floor is so much lower. However if you aren't playing with friends (good friends that you can shoot the poo poo with and that won't rage or cause you to rage), the PvP in these games is often incredibly infuriating. As a result I just play a lot of vs Ai in HotS and League (even those CoOp in LoL is total garbage compared to HotS) and I just put in the bare minimum of effort to hit the ranked tiers that get me rewards.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
You should just be able to pick 5 of your heroes and make them play the game for you as the AI opponents that co-op only players queue up against.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 21:06
|
|
|
You should just be able to right click stealth heroes to shoot them like normal.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 21:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 16:19 |
|
|
AttackBacon posted:Honestly this (with my slight edit). I think a large part of the appeal of these games is how they distill down basic game tropes. Every game I can execute a different "power fantasy", with the standard rpg progression loop compressed down to about half an hour. I get to make build choices, progress my character, and optimize my own gameplay. It's just an inconvenient fact that I have to do it in the framework of a 5v5 competitive game instead of something like a hero defense. Why no one has executed a proper PvE mode in these games is an absolute mystery to me and I suspect it would be wildly popular. The few data points I have seen in LoL and HotS have the vsAi game modes being extremely populated, even if you adjust for leveling bots. Warcraft 3 back in the day had tons of (usually bad) rpg maps that were more or less like that. I can't think of any games that have tried to do that besides like Left 4 Dead, though. As you say, it certainly seems like there'd be a market for FARTS mechanics in that sort of format.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 21:18
|
|