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Quinntan posted:How about the Mirages and AMXs? AMX A-11  Mirage F.1CR 
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May 1, 2017 17:52
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Thanks Yooper! Hopefully I'm not a watch list for searching for black ops and strategic maps for Angola. We have some flexibility but it looks we have to hold a mission on the ground to go meet those Kfirs if we want them.
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May 1, 2017 17:58
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Put me down as another guy who wants us to nab those Kfirs!
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May 1, 2017 17:57
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CirclMastr posted:I don't understand the compulsion to assassinate the dictator. So far what we've seen is that he is incompetent, surrounded by bootlickers who also can't do their jobs well. If we kill him, yes there will be a power vacuum, but I don't trust Hoff's ground forces to be able to penetrate that quickly to capitalize. And whoever seizes power out of the vacuum we create is likely someone who knows a thing or two. Meanwhile the lithium and oil money will keep flowing in, so we're only creating a harder opponent for ourselves. Because killing dictators for money and freedom is awesome, and someone needs to do it eventually anyway. Flowing in to who? I doubt the dictator has left one general in charge of all his mines. At the very least we'd fragment opposition funding, and leave them a point of contention in the form of wondering who gets to sleep on the dictator's money pile. Why pass up a chance to paralyze the enemy weeks at least for fear of some heretofore unseen competent leader will leap into the top spot unopposed? Because if it isn't unopposed, they'll have to shoot at each other. Which means less being shot at us. paragon1 fucked around with this message at 18:25 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 18:20
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I don't think we should assume a competent leader would take the Dictator's place, or even that a post-Dictator Angola would be united. It could very well be that any reasonably smart replacement(s) from the upper echelons of the Dictator's crew would be willing to cut a deal with the Count or Free State to ensure a better chance of survival and at least SOME money going into their Swiss bank accounts rather than a paveway or SDB to the face, which is basically the eventual fate of any leader in a war zone without an Air Force. For now though we might want to just focus on getting our grubby mits on those Kfirs as safely as possible, as we will need them no matter what happens.
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May 1, 2017 18:37
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Yeah, at most I think we can throw some missiles at the capital. The focus this round should be seizing the East, getting the Bulgarians to surrender, and maybe getting some panic in the Free State. "We've cleared everyone else out, and now we are coming for you. Surrender or flee. We also will pay for any planes you have. Just saying."
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May 1, 2017 18:41
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To be completely honest I just want to see the what the presidential Twitter looks like after we blow up the presidential palace. Potentially interrupting the hiring of more competition is just a bonus.
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May 1, 2017 19:05
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 For people planning, here's a list of targets to consider, based on the Five Rings. I strongly encourage planners to think about a decapitation strike (assuming we can get enough intel about the Dictator's whereabouts -- we could probably geolocate him from his Twitter use). We have some pretty strong standoff capability -- we can drop sixty-four SBDs, four Tauruses, and four Storm Shadows. That's enough to utterly wreck any places the Dictator may be hiding. Fielded Military -Ground troops (Armor, Infantry, Artillery) -Anti-aircraft guns -SAMs -Jammers/OECM sties -Radar -Barracks -Aircraft (airborne and grounded) -Warships (at sea and in port) Population -Cities Infrastructure -Bridges -Railways and rail depots -Ports -Shipping (at sea and in port) -Truck traffic -Airfields Organic/System Essentials/Key Production -Military-related factories -Lithium mines -Oil or Lithium Refineries -Oil wells -Ammo dumps -Fuel dumps -Repair shops -Communication nodes (radio towers, satellite dishes, telephone exchanges, cell towers) Leadership -Dictator's bunker/mansion -Command and control posts
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May 1, 2017 19:10
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paragon1 posted:To be completely honest I just want to see the what the presidential Twitter looks like after we blow up the presidential palace. If we can lob a cruise missile Im for it, but I dont think we have resources for two fronts. Heres what Im picturing for free state. We've hit the capital with missiles, we just stole the fighters. "Hai Free State! The Sultan has left, the Bulgarians have surrendered, and we've destroyed the Angolan Air Force. You know what happens next. ^_~ [Img]https://31.media.tumblr. com/7e1bd42998938b40f291db2d14a17bfb/ Tumblr_inline_myn0zkesoF1qkqkja.gif[/timg] But we like what youve done so far, and we'll make you a deal.  15 cents on the dollar of any military gear you have left - and we just paid for four fighters already, so you know we're honest.  Surrender the gear and you get a nice paycheck, a lot nicer than dying against us would. [Timg]2035_-_autoplay_gif_gif_vince_ mcmahon_wwf.gif [/timg] Give us a call. ^_^ " Edit: now with additional buzzfeed Loel fucked around with this message at 21:25 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 19:12
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I think you'll need to throw in some anime and dubious image macros to make it intelligible to them, but I take your point.
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May 1, 2017 19:33
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I really think there's some of us thinking too big in terms of what we can do. I would rather we go beat up on the Bulgarians some more, they're the anchor for the whole western side of the line. If we take them out, we'd be giving the Count's infantry some space for them to advance along the coast.
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May 1, 2017 19:33
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Quinntan posted:I really think there's some of us thinking too big in terms of what we can do. I would rather we go beat up on the Bulgarians some more, they're the anchor for the whole western side of the line. If we take them out, we'd be giving the Count's infantry some space for them to advance along the coast. While I agree with eliminating the Bulgarian armor, do you really want to leave the search radar + Gadfly combo unmolested to blast our defecting friends out of the sky? Also remember that we have 24 hours of strikes to work out. Our Phantoms can get 2-3 sorties in, anything that needs four hours can get in 4-5, and our Gripens could probably do 5-6--and that's WITHOUT Quick Turnaround!
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May 1, 2017 19:37
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Marathoned this thread, Sign me up please! Callsign Wanderer, no preference on what I fly.
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May 1, 2017 19:46
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Davin Valkri posted:While I agree with eliminating the Bulgarian armor, do you really want to leave the search radar + Gadfly combo unmolested to blast our defecting friends out of the sky? Honestly? I wouldn't mind either way if we destroyed it or not. The effort to take out one battery of SA-11s would be extensive, and I don't think it would reap as much of a benefit as taking out the Bulgarians and, I dunno, perhaps nailing the last AAF airbase around Lubango. The limiting factor for our strikes is how many times our support assets (Erieye, tankers, Prowler) can sortie, not how many turnarounds we can put in for Gripens.
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May 1, 2017 20:05
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I'm worried that this op might lead to the Free State & the regime uniting against us. Anyway, I hate to beat a dead horse, but I'd like to revisit this update from Yooper: Yooper posted:5. The SA-11 uses a conical radar. It's been described like looking through a straw into the sky. As such it relies on wider based radar to steer it where it needs to take a look. Because it's conical it is very difficult to detect. Quinntan posted:I really think there's some of us thinking too big in terms of what we can do. I would rather we go beat up on the Bulgarians some more, they're the anchor for the whole western side of the line. If we take them out, we'd be giving the Count's infantry some space for them to advance along the coast. Yeah, and considering what Lubito represents (better port, our own refinery, & denying another airport to the Dictator) that seems like a great call. I mean, go back and look at the distance our forces advanced before and after Operation Grognard. If we could manage a similar breakthrough, we would take at least that mine. And keep in mind the post-grognard was just a mad dash with Technicals, not a proper mechanised advance. I'd like to push up on Kuito/Bie to split the Dictator's forces in half (I think that would basically allow Mkebe & his rangers to advance all the way up to the Free State virtually unopposed), but I feel like that would be overstretching our capabilities. It's a shame, though - that Airfield would be pretty much ideal to cover most of the country. I can see why the Sultan's First picked it as their base. I wonder, is there some way to reflect changing pilots? I feel like rotating pilots (and we have enough dudes we can do a rotation) might be a good call to prevent fatigue (is that modelled in the game?). Assuming our, we could even have dudes on standby to hop into the Kfirs, fuel 'em up and rearm them (although they might still have the munitions the Free State loaded on them depending on how things play out and add them to the mission plans more or less immediately.
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May 1, 2017 22:26
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power crystals posted:Unfortunately the munitions aren't. Dumb bombs and rockets for ground attack and Sidewinders (and sometimes Falcons Well that's how it goes when it's the 50's, it's too early for any of the good stuff like good missiles and guided bombs. Maybe the Austrian ones are slightly upgraded to handle newer ammunition, other than that they're just collector's planes by now. e:v Oh well, maybe we can buy some Danish ones then if they still have any left. Koorisch fucked around with this message at 22:33 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 22:25
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) for air to air. No BVR or guided air to ground weapons of any kind I can see, unless those Falcons are an SARH variant but please no do not make some poor goon emply a Falcon in anger in 2023. They'd be better than the SK60s but honestly not by much. I love Drakens, they're beautiful, but they're also kind of useless.
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Nope! The Danish Drakens are the only ones with guided A2G munitions with the Walleyes. Austrian ones only had lovely sidewinders
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May 1, 2017 22:28
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Yvonmukluk posted:I wonder, is there some way to reflect changing pilots? I feel like rotating pilots (and we have enough dudes we can do a rotation) might be a good call to prevent fatigue (is that modelled in the game?). Assuming our, we could even have dudes on standby to hop into the Kfirs, fuel 'em up and rearm them (although they might still have the munitions the Free State loaded on them depending on how things play out and add them to the mission plans more or less immediately. Not really in game. Most of the time a flight is just labeled Tiger #1, Tiger #2, etc. I manually enter in names when I create the scenario. Anything that would be seen as switching would only have the impact of seeing your name. Warfaresims has a really good article on Quick Turnaround and Surge Ops. http://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=3262
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May 1, 2017 22:35
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Aside from these SA-11s we need to take out, and the Kfirs we need to escort, I think we should have only one other goal in mind for this 24-hour op. Otherwise we risk spreading ourselves too thin. As for what that op should be, I say we take out the airfield at Benguela. This would accomplish three things: 1. Reduce their ability to provide air support to the ground forces on our western front. Hoff's ground forces will eventually have to face off against the Bulgarians and he'll need our help, and without planes coming out of Benguela we won't have to split up our CAP forces to do so. 2. Reduce the Dictator's replenishment rate. Any planes shipped in from overseas will have to arrive up north in Luanda and from there make their way to southern airfields, or if they continue to arrive at Lobito will have to be shipped via ground transports to a runway. 3. Lobito becomes a much easier target for us and the Hoff to capture. I've seen numerous proposals to attack Lobito directly, but I think we've been pretty sternly warned that we will have trouble identifying military targets. I'd rather hit the neighboring airfield and capture Lobito intact. I'm also not enthused about the prospect of our eastern front pushing further north; we're about to piss off the Free State and I'd much rather have a buffer of the Dictator's territory between us and them.
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May 1, 2017 22:37
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CirclMastr posted:Aside from these SA-11s we need to take out, and the Kfirs we need to escort, I think we should have only one other goal in mind for this 24-hour op. Otherwise we risk spreading ourselves too thin. If we're going to have aircraft in position to assist the defecting Kfirs, we need to be in the central regions at the least with Air Superiority aircraft. At the same time, the Dictator seems to have pulled the bulk of his forces to the West to hold the ports so the time of a buffer between Hoff and the Angolan Free State has effectively come to an end. Fighter sweep/SEAD in the center with pounding the Bulgarians might be the way to go. In the last mission the only things taking off near us were the Y-28 Jammer and AWACS birds so I don't think that close field is holding much and if we want to take it we have to go through the Bulgarian forces. I just thought of something, can we do PSYOPS and try to convince the Bulgarians to switch sides mid operation (through a special event)? Like be flooding their radios with propaganda and a 1 to 10 percent chance they switch?
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May 1, 2017 22:55
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Coffeehitler posted:I just thought of something, can we do PSYOPS and try to convince the Bulgarians to switch sides mid operation (through a special event)? Like be flooding their radios with propaganda and a 1 to 10 percent chance they switch? Even a surrender is a win in my book. We can walk them to our airport, please leave weapons where they are.
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May 1, 2017 23:00
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I'll just leave these here where the guys with paint buckets can see them. http://imgur.com/a/5jlYq also quote:Quinntan - Today at 5:08 PM
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May 1, 2017 23:11
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Coffeehitler posted:I just thought of something, can we do PSYOPS and try to convince the Bulgarians to switch sides mid operation (through a special event)? Like be flooding their radios with propaganda and a 1 to 10 percent chance they switch? Loel posted:Even a surrender is a win in my book. We can walk them to our airport, please leave weapons where they are. OOC, if Yooper wants to do this, it could work. For it to be plausible, though, I'd imagine they'd go with something like "1 to 10 percent chance of surrender after initiation, and then reroll for every Bulgarian unit damaged/destroyed thereafter." Just so the initial investment isn't a complete game changing roll-of-the-dice.
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May 1, 2017 23:14
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Davin Valkri posted:OOC, if Yooper wants to do this, it could work. For it to be plausible, though, I'd imagine they'd go with something like "1 to 10 percent chance of surrender after initiation, and then reroll for every Bulgarian unit damaged/destroyed thereafter." Just so the initial investment isn't a complete game changing roll-of-the-dice. Considering they have no air support, no AAA, and theyve lost half their column last night, Im honestly surprised they havent surrendered already.
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May 1, 2017 23:22
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My thought was to as soon as the Kfirs arrive go "look we're friendly if you are, just let us know once you're tired of getting dunked on by GBU-24s".
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May 1, 2017 23:28
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It's possible they haven't been able work out an exit strategy they like. I imagine it's a lot easier to quit working for a dictator when you can just fly away.
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May 1, 2017 23:29
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paragon1 posted:It's possible they haven't been able work out an exit strategy they like. I imagine it's a lot easier to quit working for a dictator when you can just fly away. Walk away from their weapons, and walk south. Bing bang boom, so simple.
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May 1, 2017 23:30
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Yeah I'm sure they'd rather rip apart the contract, load up the tanks onto a container ship, and fly the people out of an airport rather than actually surrendering to a hostile entity.
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May 1, 2017 23:32
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Of course this is all speculation. For best practices we should probably assume the armor to our north will fight to the death with the Dictator's SA-11s in support, along with whatever Tunguskas they still have, and plan accordingly. Them surrendering would be a nice bonus, not an assumed end state or mid state to our ops.
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May 1, 2017 23:33
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Cathode Raymond posted:Yeah I'm sure they'd rather rip apart the contract, load up the tanks onto a container ship, and fly the people out of an airport rather than actually surrendering to a hostile entity. Im sure they would too, but we can keep bombing them on their way to aforementioned ship  Leave weapons, walk south, get flown to the city of your choice.
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May 1, 2017 23:35
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Operation: Burn the earth. Primary objectives: Destroy the port facilities at Luanda. Destroy Western Dictator radar sites. Maintain air cover and escort defecting Free State pilots. Map:  Flights: Yellow Flight 2 x Gripens with BK-90 Mjolner Mk2. Objective is to bomb the port facilities with cluster munitions. 2 x Mirage F1.CR with T.200 400kg GPB. Objective is to bomb the port facilities. 1 x Gripens with A/A: Meteor, Standard Intercept. Objective is to provide air cover for bombing planes. 1 x Gripens with SDB. Objective if Gadfly AA is detected covering the port, destroy said Gadfly. 1 x EA-6B Prowler. Objective provide jamming against possible AA for the bombing planes. Blue Flight 1 x Saudi Tornado with Storm Shadow, 1x. Objective is the destruction of the radar facility. 1 x Tornado with Taurus KEPD 350P. Objective is the destruction of the radar facility. 2 x Phantoms with A/A: AIM-120B AMRAAM, Heavy. Objective is to provide air cover for Tornado planes. Black Flight 1 x Saudi Tornado with Storm Shadow, 1x. Objective is the destruction of the radar facility. 1 x Tornado with Taurus KEPD 350P. Objective is the destruction of the radar facility. 2 x Phantoms with A/A: AIM-120B AMRAAM, Heavy. Objective is to provide air cover for Tornado planes. Purple Flight 4 x Gripens with A/A: Meteor, Standard Intercept. Objective wait for confirmation of defector flight launch and launch and provide air cover for defecting planes. 2 x Phantoms with A/A: AIM-120B AMRAAM, Heavy. Objective wait for confirmation of defector flight launch and launch and provide air cover for defecting planes. Support flight 1 x Saab S 100B. Objective provide AWACS support. 1 x KC-135 Tanker. Objective provide refueling for airborne planes. 1 x MQ-9 Reaper. Objective deploy where it can provide the best recon for the strikes against the radar sites without being shot down. Rules of engagement: Engage any Dictator air units on sight once they enter missile range. Engage any Free State air units on sight once they enter missile range. Do not engage the Free State Dictators. Additional information: There is my proposal for this mission. According to Searates.com the port at Luanda provides about 80% of Angola's port capacity if we can neutralize this port it should cause a massive negative effect on the Dictator's ability to get equipment and goods out and in to the country. As per usual for me this is where you will find the war crimes thus the cluster munitions. Should also cause chaos afterwards in the clean up and drat the civilian casualties. In addition we destroy the dictators western radar sites with stand off cruise missiles from our aircraft. We know where the radar sites are and we should be able to destroy them no problem. All flights have air to air protection just in case the Dictator has any aerial surprises in reserve. The main amount of our air to air planes will be in the east where they will wait for the Free State defectors and escort them to our airfields when they make their break. koolkevz666 fucked around with this message at 00:07 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 23:50
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Davin Valkri posted:Of course this is all speculation. For best practices we should probably assume the armor to our north will fight to the death with the Dictator's SA-11s in support, along with whatever Tunguskas they still have, and plan accordingly. Them surrendering would be a nice bonus, not an assumed end state or mid state to our ops. Oh yeah, bomb the ever-loving-gently caress out of them up to and until they either don't exist anymore or have surrendered. If they decide to destroy the Dictator's forces for us, all the better. I'm just saying give them the chance to surrender and either sit or leave in good order (Loel's march south option). If they want to move their vehicles into laagers and sit it out, I'm down if they are. Our logistics tail is beginning to look like a mess with all of the different munitions now. And looking at the wiki for the Storm Shadows that our new Saudi Tornadoes can carry, those should be able to be carried by the Gripens as well. koolkevz666 posted:Operation: Burn the earth. This is quite likely to get us looked at in a very negative way by the global powers that be. The port strike will greatly harm the world's lithium trade, and they won't take kindly to it. This should be done if we're deciding to be villains and only then, since it could very well turn this into hard mode. It has already been strongly suggested that we don't go after the lithium trade itself. The anti-radar missions should maybe be the two types of Tornadoes together, or include and SDB Gripen. Or luck so far with the KEDPs has been less than stellar and I wouldn't expect it to get better by adding another type of Stand-off Weapon to the mix. CoffeeQaddaffi fucked around with this message at 00:00 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 23:51
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drat, but the harbor plan is audacious.
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May 1, 2017 23:52
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koolkevz666 posted:Operation: Burn the earth. Sounds good, but what if a Buk contact appears at the port? It may be wise to have a SDB Gripen ready.
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May 1, 2017 23:56
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Dandywalken posted:Sounds good, but what if a Buk contact appears at the port? It may be wise to have a SDB Gripen ready. Good idea, thank you. Will edit into the plan.
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May 2, 2017 00:00
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Now that I've actually looked past "Bomb a port": The Frogfoot can't aerial refuel, so it can't go to the port and back. So it'll have to either stay home or bomb Bulgarians or Radars.
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May 2, 2017 00:01
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Coffeehitler posted:Now that I've actually looked past "Bomb a port": Good information. will edit the plan. Thank you. Edit: Plan updated. SU-25 removed replaced with 2 x Mirages with bombs. Not too worried about the stand off munitions last i checked we tried to use them against AA defenses themselves this time they will be used against a stationary ground building should hopefully be better. As for the don't be evil idea? That's what all my plans are pure evil as much as I can do and still be at least some what feasible.I won't blame or be against any one not voting for my plans it is just for something different. If you want to look for some positive side of it, we could spin it as showing how ineffective the Dictator is at defending his assets and that we are doing so to keep the port facilities out of the Free States hands. koolkevz666 fucked around with this message at 00:11 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 00:02
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For quick turnarounds, there's an extra complicating factor that isn't really documented well. Even if a plane lands before it reaches the maximum allowable flight time for a quick turnaround, the average flight duration must be less than the remaining maximum allowable flight time. That's a little complicated, so I'll give an example: Let's say we're flying CAP Phantoms with quick turnaround. The relevant QT info is: "Day and night, 2 sorties @ 30 min, 4 hrs flying time." So let's say their first sortie takes 1 hour and 30 minutes from wheels up to wheels down. They can be refueled and rearmed in only 30 minutes and then launch back into the air. But what if their first sortie takes 2 hours and 10 minutes? In that case, they can't use quick turnaround, since their average airborne time per sortie is 2h10m, which is longer than the remaining time (1h50m). They'll be forced to stand down for the full 3 hours. ===== Psawhn fucked around with this message at 00:40 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 00:09
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Bombing the port is a bad idea - the world will get pissy if we interrupt the lithium supply.
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May 2, 2017 00:15
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Can we include just enough of a strike on the presidential palace to spook but not kill the dictator? Someone can go on twitter and thank his most competent employee for the leak. I guarantee this degrades his command structure enough that we won't be facing competent officers.
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May 2, 2017 00:19
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