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Removing all the "never cast this" spells doesn't change the pool of available useful spells at all. It doesn't make great spells better or borderline spells worse. Spells/units that never get used are effectively removed from the pool already for everyone who isn't AI or new and falling for a trap.
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Apr 26, 2017 04:27
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I think you missed the part where people were complaining about mages using lovely spells when off-script.
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Apr 26, 2017 04:35
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I think removing worthless things from the game just makes whatever AI the game uses better, as if it can't use a thing, then it will use another thing. Optimally in Dominions 1235619 Illwinter will recreate it with a better not lovely game engine and coding practices.
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Apr 26, 2017 12:57
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Sloober posted:Optimally in Dominions 1235619 Illwinter will recreate it with a better not lovely game engine and coding practices. Dominions is something two weirdos from Scandinavia do in their spare time, just for fun. So you'd better not hold your breath on that.
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Apr 26, 2017 15:05
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Libluini posted:Dominions is something two weirdos from Scandinavia do in their spare time, just for fun. So you'd better not hold your breath on that. There's a reason i said dominions 1235619
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Apr 26, 2017 15:19
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Sloober posted:There's a reason i said dominions 1235619 And when it finally happened, it was so shocking the Imperium of Man fell and the Eye of Terror engulfed the entire galaxy. 
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Apr 26, 2017 16:21
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Libluini posted:And when it finally happened, it was so shocking the Imperium of Man fell and the Eye of Terror engulfed the entire galaxy. 1235620 better patch these loving void units i swear to the emperor
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Apr 26, 2017 17:41
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Shady Amish Terror posted:1235620 better patch these loving void units i swear to the emperor You're supposed to loving pray before you use them, idiot, they're not broken God its like you want to summon a chaos god.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:37
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Those empires of bone and torment must get to feel real samey after a while.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:48
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Turn 87 Turn 87 begins with hitting level 7 in Evocation. We now have access to Fire Storm and a bunch of other very interesting spells, including one I’d forgotten about : Rain of Stones. Rain of Stones (RoS) does exactly what it sounds like; drops rocks on the entire battlefield. It’s a very good spell to use in defensive traps and for killing large, soft things like Communions. On the other hand, it is kind of hard to cast, because the required E3A1 paths are very uncommon. For fun, I’m going to empower Pedoseion, our Father Illearth, in a level of Air magic so he can cast it. We’re also taking our Research and throwing it into Construction, which I think we’ll go ahead and max out to give us access to whatever artifacts remain in the game. We cast all the regular spells, including some site-searching spells that I set some mages up to auto-cast each month. We have taken some new territory and who knows if there are some sites within that Bogarus never bothered to find. Remember how we learned that the Dome of Flaming Death triggers off of our own spells a few turns ago?  Fuuuck! Yep. Several of our remote site-searchers cast at Fas Dir this turn, triggering fireball backlash, killing one mage, and burning down the lab in the province he was in. loving lovely, I really hate how this works. Something like ~20 mages get to sit and twiddle their thumbs for a turn while we rebuild the Lab. Last turn, before we had a chat with Pangaea, I’d had four of our Horror Cannons set to fire at one of Pangaea’s border provinces in our East. Looks like I forgot to change the orders for one of them, since a Horror slammed into Pan’s force there. The Horror, alone, died, but I guess we get an accurate view of the army for it.  A Lot of Hobbits. We threw another Horror at Bogarus’ Vampire squad that is harassing Caelum. It proved pretty ineffective. This turn we are going to instead Horror Seed the Vampires, which actually may (eventually) be a good way of combating them.  Vampires really have nothing to fear from Horrors. Speaking of Horror Seeds, we successfully planted two in Pangaea’s capitol province. We’re going to set the casters to auto-cast the spell at Pan’s cap for a little while. My reasoning is that Pan will constantly be moving his cap-only Dryad Hoplites out of the cap and to various battlefronts. That should give the Seeds a chance to spread all over his Empire! Ok, battles for the turn. First we see that same Vampire squad of Bogarus’ that we Horror’d in the magic phase go and retake Venna from Caelum. Nothing exciting there.  Bogarussian Vampires on the march! Next we get to see the results of our pinging of Bogarus’ fort in Banded Hills:  Looks like ~20 Astrapelagists, assorted heavy cavalry chaff, and a couple other mages.  Also, they've got Trolls! Trolls can be useful blockers in castle fights, with their high HP, good Protection, and innate Regeneration. Look at the weird effect in the ‘sky’ of the battlefield, though. What could that be?  Oh, very interesting. I have never seen Solar Brilliance used in a game before, I have no idea how strong it is or is not. Taking a closer look at the mages we see:  One of Bogarus’ cap-only mages, boosted the hell up with this bad boy:  This is a powerful artifact, and it is also the source of the Solar Brilliance. Ramc has set up a very nice little trap for our Vampires here. The Astrapelagists aren’t scripted like we’ve seen in turns past. They start to form a communion. Additionally, there’s this gal:  Who is almost certainly going to cast Mass Regeneration. Alright, cool. It appears as though Ramc is ready to put a little bit of effort into this fight. I’m moving a few units to Banded Hills so we can put together a more effective army. I think we can crack this nut. Pangaea finally, finally successfully stormed the Ragha fort in Eaglereach Mountains. A great victory for the beast men!  Mighty indeed. We attempted to storm Bogarus’ fort in Ferra. Recall that last turn we discovered that there were only 6 troops sitting in the fort, leaderless. Our scout, scripted to Hold x5 and then Stay Behind Troops, attacked! He immediately got hit in the face by an arrow:  Arrow to the face. He did hold strong for another two rounds, though! Bogarus’ cowardly troops slowly flee the battlefield:  Run away! Not fast enough, however:  OK, that was dumb. Let’s send a couple of Vampires into the fort this turn and actually last long enough to take it. That’s it for battles, in other news the Nexus only took in 55 god drat Pearls this turn. That is really lovely! Honestly, I think that Pangaea and Bogarus’ lackadaisical approach and minimum effort right now mean that they’re not spending as many gems as they otherwise should be, resulting in a poor harvest for us. How rude! There are things I want to Wish for, and there are things I want to summon as well, so we’re going to only summon one Golem a turn for a bit while we try to rebuild a Pearl cushion. That’s pretty much it for the turn. We’re going to actually take Ferra next turn, and we’re moving Pazuzu and his Storm Demons down to The Cracked Earth to reinforce the Vampires there. Our Cold War with Pangaea remains in place as we continue to summon more Vampires and reinforce the East. Hopefully over the next few turns we’ll take the Bogarus provinces we have under siege and then will be able to advance even further. We need gems and we need power, because War with Pangaea is coming, and it is going to be a very big event.  War is coming!
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Apr 30, 2017 20:12
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I would say it's ironic that you're suffering because your opponents hoarding gems instead of aggressively spending them like you normally probably should, but maybe that's why they're still not somehow all ganging up on you? Maybe? I guess? I kind of feel like the micromanagement needs of a Mo Money game have completely skewed how the endgame is operating here. It's starting to look like everyone has just tons and tons of stuff, and no desire (or just plain not enough time) to really dig into scripting and casting and orders. That, and/or everybody is working on completely ridiculous impractical superweapons to win the war instead, which I suppose is also not out of the question in Dominions.
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Apr 30, 2017 20:26
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Shady Amish Terror posted:That, and/or everybody is working on completely ridiculous impractical superweapons to win the war instead, which I suppose is also not out of the question in Dominions. I hope this is the case. And I hope the super weapons are even less practical than we could ever imagine!
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Apr 30, 2017 20:56
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I'm a huge loving dingus with too much free time and playing an ordinary endgame burned me out hard enough that I won't even join a MoMoney game for fear of the management, and being in the deep 80s is excessive even for a normal game. I can only imagine what it must have felt like for Ramc to jump in to this in the middle of a war.
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Apr 30, 2017 21:13
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The surprise ending is that HAU ends up Horror Seeding too much and the horrors are the eventual winners of the game.
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Apr 30, 2017 21:47
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I'm fairly happy with the choice of Horror Seeds as how are u's impractical secret weapon, if they're ever going to actually do anything ever at all, this is probably the time what with dozens of castings over many, many turns. ...granted, I'm not expecting anything, but treating a Mo Money game as an opportunity for science feels appropriate to me.
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Apr 30, 2017 22:00
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Turn 88 Fair warning: Turn 88 is a lackluster turn. The turn begins merely with the reports of the casting of all of our normal spells. One new and interesting thing is that we summon our first Worm Mage:  I think these guys have some of the coolest background fluff, it’s really neat! They’re a standard feature in the Dominions 4 endgame, though they are expensive at 30 Nature gems a piece. Our Throne of Sorcery gives a 20% discount to Thaumaturgy, so we got our first Worm for a mere 24N. Our current N income is 24 gems a turn, so we can actually afford to pump out one Worm a turn and be gem-netural. Here’s one of the coolest things about the Worm Mages:  I cannot, off the top of my head, recall any other unit in Dominions 4 that has this ability. The “Reform” ability is basically a battlefield version of Immortality. The Worm Mage has a 75% chance of reforming on the battlefield upon death. They also auto-summon 5 tiny, flying, stinging beetles every combat round, which instantly fly to the nearest enemy and act as a screen for the Worms. They’re bad-rear end. We load up the first Worm with two Nature boosters so he can summon more of his kind, and then the Arel who summoned him flies back off to the battlefront with Bogarus. We hurled another Greater Horror at one of Bogarus’ Vampire stacks we had a scout’s eye on:  Vampires, it turns out, are loving excellent at killing Horrors. We’ll pick a better target for Horrors this turn. We also see notifications that several of our Vampires in the East cast Infernal Disease. Infernal Disease sounds like some sort of diseaseing ritual, but it is actually a remote assassination spell. It sends a Disease Demon to a province to hunt for an enemy commander to assassinate. I had the bright idea of firing the spell at our provinces in the East adjacent to Pangaean territory. I was hoping that perhaps the Disease Demon would be able to find and kill a Dryad stealth-preaching in our land. Well, the spells found nothing, but I’m going to fire a few more this turn at a couple other provinces just to see if anything happens. Maybe I’m being an idiot, but the Infernal Disease spell costs only 5 slaves to cast, so it’s not a big deal to waste such a small amount.  Probably the single best remote-assassination spell in the game. On to battles for the turn! Here’s the first glorious combat, our storming of Bogarus’ fortress in Ferra, the fort our Scout failed to take last turn:  A mighty victory! Yay, we won. I wonder how many awesome magic sites Ferra contains!  This is it. Fucker! Ferra contains a single visible magic site giving us an incredible +1 Death a turn. It is turn 88, so I feel that it is safe to assume that most players have pretty thoroughly searched their provinces, which means that Ferra is a dud. Like I said: this isn’t the most exciting turn! We weren’t involved in any other battles this turn, and we only scouted one other, which is also boring and weird. We caught sight of a Caelan force of 8 Raven Guards somehow attacking a Bogarus province alone, without even a commander.  I have no idea how this works. Well, that’s it! Here’s what we’re doing next turn, I promise it’ll be more interesting. We’re making two attacks against Bogarus. First, we’re storming the fortress in Banded Hills, the one we pinged last turn and in which we discovered that anti-undead Artifact. Hopefully that goes off well, but if it ends in disaster we’ll still be ok. Second, we’re going to assault a fresh Bogarus province! We’re attacking the spookily named province of Utevania:   We’ll sling two Horrors at Utevania this turn, they’ll hit it in the Magic phase and ideally wipe out the province defense. Then our big force of Golems, Vampires, and miscellany will move in and put the fort to siege without a battle. We only have 1 candle of Dominion in Utevania, so sending Vampire is a risk. However, I’m confident in the ability of the Golems act as blockers for the Vampires, and we’re sending along priests who will Preach while we siege the fort.  We're also reinforcing our siege of The Cracked Earth! In the East, on the Pangaean ‘front’, nothing has changed. Nothing has changed because Pan staled his last turn.  All quiet on the Eastern Front. Afrosquirrel has staled several of the last dozen or so turns, and apparently he’s similarly staling in a couple other games as well. I think he may be suffering from Dominions fatigue. Let me note: fatiguing out on this game is OK! It happens to most people; it’s a very complicated and time consuming game, and I do not think that any particular game of Dom 4 is more complicated and time consuming than Mo Money Mo Problems. I’m not immune to feeling the fatigue either, just a couple days ago (as of this writing) I went AI in long-running game because I discovered I just didn’t have the energy and presence of mind to play in both this game and another super-late end game at the same time. Well, if Pan starts to stale multiple turns in a row we may have to find a replacement for Afrosquirrel, but that’s OK. I’m only mentioning this because it’s part of the meta-game. Often times the balance of power in a given Dom 4 game will be thrown completely out of whack when a large, powerful player suddenly disappears or goes AI. Just one more bump on the road to becoming Pantokrator!
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May 1, 2017 01:00
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Shady Amish Terror posted:That, and/or everybody is working on completely ridiculous impractical superweapons to win the war instead, which I suppose is also not out of the question in Dominions. What do you mean, that is maximum Dominions. The people who wanted to win efficiently wouldn't have let it get to endgame. How are u posted:Fucker! Ferra contains a single visible magic site giving us an incredible +1 Death a turn. It is turn 88, so I feel that it is safe to assume that most players have pretty thoroughly searched their provinces, which means that Ferra is a dud. Like I said: this isn’t the most exciting turn! Protip, automatic remote searching spells will skip provinces that have been remote searched in that path by other players. Or they used to and I see no reason that has changed.
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May 1, 2017 02:24
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TheDemon posted:
That's excellent to know, and news to me, but I was pretty much just irked that I'd just won a new province with a total of +1D in a game with 75% magic site frequency settings.
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May 1, 2017 03:33
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Turn 89 Turn 89 begins with hitting level 8 in Construction, we are now able to construct magical artifacts! There aren’t really any artifacts that I’m desperate to have, so we will slowly build what we can just to deny them to our opponents. The first thing we’ll craft is The Ruby Eye:  We see all the usual spells of the turn: dropped some successful Horror Seeds on Pangaea and Bogarus, summoned stuff, etc. But what’s this??  gently caress!  Alright, it seems that Pangaea has finally managed to successfully put up another Global spell. I know he’s been trying to for a while, and feeding us Pearls in his attempts. Celestial Rainbow is a spell that does not get cast very often in average Dominions 4 games. It has unusual and high path requirements to cast (Nature and Water, not a combination many nations get together, and even fewer in high levels), and I’m not entirely sure how it works. I do have personal experience with the spell, I cast it myself in the first Mo Money game, so I know that it will probably bring Pangaea an extra 4-5k gold a turn. Honestly, that isn’t a significant gain for Pan. His economy is so much stronger than ours I think he’s already been able to recruit about as many troops and mages as he wants, so I’m not worried about the gold. The other effect of the global, the protection from magical attacks, could be problematic. When I cast Celestial Rainbow in Mo Money 1 I never got any feedback from the game to inform me that the Rainbow had successfully blocked a spell, so I have no idea if it was working or merely that nobody was slinging spells at my provinces. Well, we are definitely going to find out what it’s like to be on the opposite side of the Rainbow! The last message from the Magic phase is a report of the battle from the Horrors we slung at Utevania last turn:  Bogarus’ PD is successfully cleared, and our army strolls into the province and puts the fort to siege without a fight. We’ll see how Bogarus responds in the turns to come. There are two battle reports this turn, the first of which is Pangaea finally successfully storming AI Ragha’s captiol:  Pan’s ‘human’-wave tactics work this time, though the final battle report is pretty great:  That golden cow was deadly. The other battle was our attempt to storm Bogarus’ fort in Banded Hills, the fort with Starets carrying that artifact that cast Solar Brilliance. Here’s our forces standing on the field:  Vampire Lords, a Golem, and some Earthquake-capable Yeddeoni! Bogarus, as defender, gets the first round. His Starets first casts Will of the Fates, a buff that gives Luck (75% chance to ignore a deathblow) to every friendly unit on the field. His Astrapelagists then form a large communion.  On our first round the single Golem casts Antimagic over our units. Now we’ll pretty much be able to ignore the effects of Solar Brilliance. Our 6 Earthquaking Yeddeoni Summon Earthpower in preparation to rock the world on round 2. The Vampires then fly straight over the castle walls and engage Bogarus’ heavy cavalry in melee; the battle is joined!  Antimagic should greatly help our Undead defend against the power of Solar Brilliance.  Vampires attack! On round 2 Bogarus’ mages change the game. First, they cast Fog Warriors:  Crap.  Fog Warriors is perhaps the single best battlefield army buff in the game, for obvious reasons. The mages throw a few Thunder Strikes at the Vampires:  And then the one N3 Enchantress casts Mass Regeneration:  Welp, there goes the battle. Bogarus’ heavy cav and Troll chaff are now ridiculously tough to cut through. Our Vampires have a magic attack (to break through Fog Warriors' Mistform buff) but it doesn’t seem to be enough to get through the regeneration as well. On our round 2 the Yeddeoni unleash their Earthquakes to these results:    Single-digit damage thanks to Mistform. At the end of the round:  Mass Regeneration in action. All of the meagre damage healed right up, we’re in trouble now. What follows a dozen or so rounds of fighting between Vampires and Heavy Cavalry, with Bogarussian mages throwing Thunderstrikes and even more deadly (to undead) Star Fires in. Eventually the Vampires rout and fly off the field, though just as the skeletons our Vampire Lords in the rear have been summoning reach the gate:  Vampires flee, but the skeleton horde has arrived! The Solar Brilliance, while ineffective against our high-MR Vampires, proves really good against lovely skeletons. Our horde of undead is a lot smaller than usual, but they manage to clog up the gate and poke at Heavy Cavalry that have at this point routed.  Turns out that Solar Brilliance really fucks up skele-spam. One small win is that Bogarus’ artifact carrying Starets also routs, and because this is a siege he has nowhere to flee and dies. Minus one artifact for Bogarus, though I can guarantee that he’ll be casting Solar Brilliance via communion a lot from here on out.  Run away you cowardly old man! Eventually the buffed-as-gently caress Trolls beat the skeletons back, and come storming out of the gate:  With the Solar Brilliance gone, the battlefield becomes shrouded in the Darkness that we'd cast at the beginning.  Our Vampire Lords tank the Trolls for a short time, but can't land many killing blows. They work their way across the field, engaging our last couple Vampire Lords and Golem in melee. Eventually we lose. The battle report, however, paints a more favorable picture. It was a pyrrhic victory for Bogarus:  Bogarus lost all of his great Heavy Cavalry chaff, over half of his Astrapelagists, and his Starets. The next time we storm this fort he’ll have much reduced power. I’m moving several fresh golems into Banded Hills, along with all of the Vampire Lords who fled the field, and some of our Se’irim as well. We’ll have a full strength force ready next turn. This turn, though, we’ll send a few Vampire Lords and Vampires in just to make mischief. I don’t expect them to win, just to hopefully kill a few more defenders.  We're preparing to deploy our new end-game superweapon. That’s mainly it for the turn. One minorly interesting thing we discovered during the “Scout killing” phase of the turn was a Caelan scout we uncovered in Fas Dir, way up in our North West:   Very fashionable cloak. Caelum’s not using an actual scout, rather a commander with a small bodyguard, and the commander is wearing several + Stealth items. That’s kind of goofy and a waste of gems if you ask me. So, next turn we await Bogarus’ response to our siege in Utevania. We are also sending some poo poo into Banded Hills again just to see what’s up while we reassemble a real storming force. In the East Pangaea and I remain in our Cold War, and we continue to summon Vampires and demons, waiting for the day the war turns Hot. 
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May 1, 2017 22:27
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Which global did you lose?
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May 1, 2017 23:41
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resistentialism posted:Which global did you lose? I just realized that I never noted which global got tanked, you're right! It was Stellar Focus (+5 Pearls / turn), thus the lack of wailing and gnashing of teeth on my part when it got overwritten. So, we currently still have Arcane Nexus and Gift of Health globals active.
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May 1, 2017 23:54
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I like the idea of a mage countering a giant horde of vampires with a stolen piece of the sun. It's pretty great.
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May 2, 2017 00:08
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I don't think second sun affects vampires. That would be a neat interaction.
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May 2, 2017 00:18
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goatface posted:I don't think second sun affects vampires. That would be a neat interaction. I think he was talking about this:
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May 2, 2017 00:25
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Oh I know, I was just thinking out loud.
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May 2, 2017 00:27
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Glazius posted:I like the idea of a mage countering a giant horde of vampires with a stolen piece of the sun. It's pretty great. The move and countermove in that Bogarus battle is also pretty toothsome.
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May 2, 2017 00:46
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So if something fucks off with an artifact and loses it to the wilds can you craft it again or wish for it or is it just gone?
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May 2, 2017 00:56
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resistentialism posted:So if something fucks off with an artifact and loses it to the wilds can you craft it again or wish for it or is it just gone? There can only ever be 1 of each Artifact item in a game. But if that single copy goes missing then it is up for grabs for the first person who forges it again.
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May 2, 2017 01:16
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Or wishes for it, yeah; I think part of the flavor for artifacts is that they're so powerful they can't be completely destroyed and are effectively immortal themselves. As for Second Sun, I suppose it makes sense that it doesn't really do much to Dominions vampires, given they can do their thing out in the sunlight normally with no real issue. I don't think there's any units in Dominions that have problems with operating in daylight actually; I'm pretty sure darkness affinity is almost entirely governed by the Dark Vision trait which mostly just reduces or removes maluses from fighting in the dark, and a trait that a very few demons and other rare units have that gives a bonus to fighting in Darkness. Looking it up, the trait in question appears to be Dark Power. I don't think there's any equivalent malus to fighting in the light, outside of maybe some Dark Power units being lackluster in base stats.
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May 2, 2017 01:30
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I appreciate that Solar Brilliance trumps Darkness. Pity about the candles making those vampire deaths sort of meaningless in the long run. But in momoney the loss of units is sort of an 'oh well'.
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May 2, 2017 01:41
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Second Sun doesn't do anything to vampires directly, but it does screw with them indirectly due to jacking up the Heat scales in all provinces worldwide. High heat scales means fire magic is more effective, and stuff like the ground and units are more likely to catch fire. And vampires do NOT like fire in any way shape or form. It may screw around with darkness spells too, and undead with their perfect darkvision really like darkness effects going up, but I don't recall for certain.
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May 2, 2017 03:59
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Second Sun only affects heat scales, magical darkness and "being in a cave" darkness still work just fine.
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May 2, 2017 06:19
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That was some cool counterplay. 
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May 2, 2017 09:42
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That was a rad battle. Is there any good counter here for Fog Warriors with the currently fielded units?
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May 2, 2017 12:38
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PurpleXVI posted:That was a rad battle. Is there any good counter here for Fog Warriors with the currently fielded units?
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May 2, 2017 13:52
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twig1919 posted:Evocattions like lightning strike that do high damage and fatigue? Stellar cascades for fatigue damage? Poison and magic weapons too, I suppose. Best bet, especially with communions, is to cripple the communion casting it before they can get it off. I am pretty sure with 12 of the 20 communion wizards in that fort dead the odds of being able to cast another one are poor for next round.
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May 2, 2017 14:50
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This recent battle makes me fear for the future security of my vampire rulers and the giant nation which I have come to love.
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May 2, 2017 17:10
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Since they tend to be built out of lots of low-hp mages, communions are really vulnerable to mass battlefield spells like Fire Storm and Rigor Mortis. The problem with those big spells is that you need a communion of your own to get the paths high enough or one of the few high-path summonables with a lot of gear.
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May 2, 2017 17:47
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From what I'm hearing, most people's focus when they want to get the appropriate paths on a mage is gear. Empowering seems pretty rare. Is there any case where empowering is a superior choice? Or is it always less economical(both because it costs more and because while the gear can be recycled if the owner dies, it's otherwise a lost pile of gems with an empowered caster)?
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May 2, 2017 19:58
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PurpleXVI posted:From what I'm hearing, most people's focus when they want to get the appropriate paths on a mage is gear. Empowering seems pretty rare. Is there any case where empowering is a superior choice? Or is it always less economical(both because it costs more and because while the gear can be recycled if the owner dies, it's otherwise a lost pile of gems with an empowered caster)? There is some worth in empowering a mage so that they get into a path.
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May 2, 2017 20:04
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