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I thought they banned the magic car right after Prost won it?
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May 2, 2017 01:25
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:I hate to distract from the pertinent topic of cooking but I learned an interesting thing about F1 today which is that Nigel Mansell only won one WDC in F1 which is one less than I had thought he won. What a loser. He literally let slip 3 WDC's. Dudes a fraud in the true sense of the word.
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May 2, 2017 01:37
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yeah, Mansell won in the magic car in 92. He went and owned the Americans in 93, while the car remained magic in 93 and Prost drove it and won again. Then Senna came in 94 and lol the car wasn't magic anymore. Senna was really unhappy, without the active suspension the Williams sucked, he talked alot about balance and how the Williams didn't have any. Then the Willams engineers really outdid themselves by cutting Senna's steering column to shorten it and did a poo poo weld which broke and resulted in Senna's death. That last part is just hearsay, the Italians actually took Willams to court because if someone dies in a sporting event in Italy it's automatically considered a crime and investigated as such. Tony Montana fucked around with this message at 02:06 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 02:02
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'94 really demonstrates Newey's weak areas. He's a good aero guy but he doesn't have a strong understanding of how a car's dynamics have an effect on aero so as soon as you removed the thing that made the car run perfectly level 100% of the time he struggled. I think even Prost said the '93 car would do really weird things if the active suspension wasn't perfect, and it gave him a nervous feeling in the back half of the season.
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May 2, 2017 02:10
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1500quidporsche posted:'94 really demonstrates Newey's weak areas. He's a good aero guy but he doesn't have a strong understanding of how a car's dynamics have an effect on aero so as soon as you removed the thing that made the car run perfectly level 100% of the time he struggled. That suspension was more than likely covering up a lot of chassis/handling dynamics issues with the car. Oh, it has snap oversteer under heavy braking? Let's just tune that out with the automatically adjusting suspension and not address the actual issue then tune the suspension. tl;dr Adrian Newey killer Are Senna. GramCracker fucked around with this message at 02:27 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 02:24
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Johnny Herbert probably could have been something if it weren't for Gregor Foitek.
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May 2, 2017 02:32
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Well it didn't have suspension in the traditional sense. No springs and dampers. Hydraulic actuators, so pistons that move the suspension structures around. Then some computing to poll sensors hundreds (not thousands of times a second in the 90s) of a times a second and work out what the car was doing, it's attitude and what forces were acting on it and then the actuators moved the suspension to where it should be. For actual shock absorption the sensors could instantly soften a corner of the car and absorb the bump, but as Alan Jones will tell you the cars of that period were ridiculously hard (ground effects days, if you didn't have fancy active suspension you just ran the car rock loving hard) anyway. You can see a video on YouTube of AJ testing the 81 Williams after he won the championship the year before and them hardening the suspension to the point of taking it out entirely having a totally rigid car. Obviously in F1 suspension is there for performance and not comfort and one of the reasons AJ got out when he did was he'd talk about the incredible back pain and how much he'd get beaten to poo poo in the cockpit of such a stiff car. Anyways so Williams spent all those years becoming the leaders and experts in a suspension technology that was then banned. While the rest of the field was putting huge development into their conventionally suspended cars trying to keep up, then suddenly William's magic tech is gone and they haven't been improving their conventional suspension like everyone else. So they suck. Just in time for Senna to rock up. Senna may have been a brilliant driver but he was a bit of a lost kid when it came to the important grown-up game of networking and talking to people. The video is the pretty amazing and famous one when when AJ complains to Frank about the hard as gently caress car Frank tells him he can 'sit on his wallet'. They were talking about suspending the seat, putting a spring between the seat and the chassis because AJ couldn't hold onto car like that. Here you go for those that havent seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KeulWo9JSQ Tony Montana fucked around with this message at 02:59 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 02:45
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GramCracker posted:That suspension was more than likely covering up a lot of chassis/handling dynamics issues with the car. Oh, it has snap oversteer under heavy braking? Let's just tune that out with the automatically adjusting suspension and not address the actual issue then tune the suspension. It was kind of the other way round where because they had the suspension they could do poo poo that normally would be off the table because it'd cause the car to do weird poo poo in order to go faster. Symonds said they(Williams) had the better aero in 94 but Benetton got their heads around the fact that they had to go to a more neutral set up to make the car drivable, certainly backed up by the fact that Senna could grab pole but the car would struggle through a race. Historically when you look at Newey's career his main objective has generally been to get the car as level as possible through whatever means so he can bolt on loads of aero and he's generally struggled when he hasn't had the means to do so.
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May 2, 2017 03:12
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I noticed in one of those magic car videos that the suspension computer was influenced by a myriad of complicated sensors such as pitot tubes. Where, for example, a mechanic could hook a tube up to the car while it was in the garage and blow into the tube and the car would inflate its suspension and ride higher because it was expecting more downforce from the wind. I had to wonder, why do your suspension calculations in such an obtuse way? Why not just have height sensors under the car to determine exactly how many millimeters you are off the tarmac and then adjust suspension so it sits at the ideal height all the time? Who cares about wind speed and G forces and the alignment of the moon and Venus? Isn't ride height all that matters?
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May 2, 2017 03:30
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My theory was that it's was a combination of limited technology as well as the fact that air flow and pressure over the front and rear of the car was more important than ground height ultimately would be.
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May 2, 2017 03:43
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1500quidporsche posted:My theory was that it's was a combination of limited technology as well as the fact that air flow and pressure over the front and rear of the car was more important than ground height ultimately would be. I imagine anything under the car was more prone to damage as well. You don't want the car to get all wonky for the rest of the race because you hit a kerbing too hard or at the wrong angle.
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May 2, 2017 03:58
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Curious to see how the RBR performes once they get the planed power unit upgrades. This year's car seems really reserved from an areo standpoint. Ferarri stole all the cool areo poo poo this year.
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May 2, 2017 04:08
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I'm more curious about how this "B-spec" car will do. I don't doubt that the Renault is down on power but I think they stripped down the aero more because the suspension jig got banned. Wouldn't be surprised if the high rake concept gets dropped.
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May 2, 2017 04:11
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Curious where Newey would take it then. The high rake concept kinda been what he's been running with for a while.
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May 2, 2017 04:16
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Not much you can do other than damage limitation. They boxed themselves into a corner going down that route and it was stupid to expect that another team wouldn't eventually pull the trigger on getting the linked suspension banned. They built a whole car around a concept that is now not viable and I'm curious how they're going to unfuck that car. In the immortal words of a great man: "It's stylistically designed to be that way and you can't undo that. But we can diminish the effects of it."
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May 2, 2017 04:29
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It's some bullshit because how is FRIC not active suspension? The concept relies on a control box in middle changing the flow between the front and rear based on whether its a heave or roll moment. Computers are monitoring poo poo and changing poo poo actively in the suspension, but that's mebe ok but what Williams did in the 90s is wrong. F1 can be awesome and stupid and the same time
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May 2, 2017 08:58
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It wasn't FRIC that was banned in the off season. That went earlier, possibly year before last. I can't remember what it was but it was something relatively unexpected and Red Bull got it in the rear end.
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May 2, 2017 09:41
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This might shed some light: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127638
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May 2, 2017 10:32
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Tony, have you ever considered smoking up a bit and becoming Stoney Montana?
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May 2, 2017 12:54
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Hi guys, just a public announcement, don't say the "F" word. It's a killer. Also, you're welcome for the thread title! I was funny for once  http://imgur.com/tQH6J9d Rereading that a few days after a GP just shows how delirious we all were in IRC. And finally, Happy 1994 Imola GP Anniversary
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May 2, 2017 13:03
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https://youtu.be/69RFpkGxlUU?t=25s
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May 2, 2017 13:14
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aequalis posted:
gently caress you
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May 2, 2017 13:24
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1500quidporsche posted:'94 really demonstrates Newey's weak areas. He's a good aero guy but he doesn't have a strong understanding of how a car's dynamics have an effect on aero so as soon as you removed the thing that made the car run perfectly level 100% of the time he struggled. To use a more extreme example the '90 Leyton House was also this way. Beautiful Car though.
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May 2, 2017 14:05
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Feels Villeneuve posted:Johnny Herbert probably could have been something if it weren't for Gregor Foitek. Eh. Maybe. Human Grand Prix fucked around with this message at 14:12 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 14:09
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Lance Stroll is karma for the cheating car and killing Senna.
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May 2, 2017 14:39
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I hope Lance Stroll Senna's into Max Verstappen.
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May 2, 2017 14:42
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Lance Stroll will get points before Alonso does.
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May 2, 2017 14:46
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aequalis posted:And finally, Happy 1994 Imola GP Anniversary 
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May 2, 2017 14:48
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Astoundingly Ugly Baby posted:Lance Stroll will get points before Alonso does. Sad but true.
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May 2, 2017 14:50
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Can somebody make a horror or thiller themed movie poster with " Lance Stroll in Monaco"? Tia
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May 2, 2017 14:50
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There's no loving way Stroll finishes Monaco
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May 2, 2017 14:56
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Norns posted:There's no way Bottas holds this together
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May 2, 2017 15:19
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Hey guys. I was wrong about Bottas at Sochi. Go figure the most boring driver is a master at the most boring track.
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May 2, 2017 15:25
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Norns you're doing it wrong. You have to double down otherwise these fucklords won't learn.
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May 2, 2017 15:28
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It's just strange we have posters who aggressively like him.
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May 2, 2017 15:35
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Perhaps the return of the French GP will lead to a renaissance of French drivers. They seemed to peter out by the mid-to-late 1990s.
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May 2, 2017 15:36
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Human Grand Prix posted:Perhaps the return of the French GP will lead to a renaissance of French drivers. They seemed to peter out by the mid-to-late 1990s.  Alain Marie Pascal Prost
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May 2, 2017 15:37
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I don't follow F1 closely enough to know much about Bottas. Does he have actual talent, or is he living proof that it's the car and not the driver that really counts in F1?
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May 2, 2017 15:39
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new results not a lot of changes but whoever Pac Racing Club is must have gotten every single one right because they got over 100 points
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May 2, 2017 15:39
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daslog posted:I don't follow F1 closely enough to know much about Bottas. Does he have actual talent, or is he living proof that it's the car and not the driver that really counts in F1? He was promising in 2013 and especially 2014, but seemed to plateau from 2015-onwards. He's talented but not talent enough for a top seat it seems.
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May 2, 2017 15:40
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