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SamuraiFoochs posted:It's awful, it sucks, and it needs to stop. It''s been like this for over 3 years and it's all because of Roman. You realize these two statements are contradictory right? How can something that is, by your admission, entirely Roman's fault be worse than Roman when the thing itself is part of the Roman problem? The first year of Brock's post-streak push was perfect, with the only problem with the whole thing being Roman. If Daniel Bryan had fought Brock at that Mania instead and everything else had played out identically, it would be remembered as an all-time classic instead of a surprisingly great match that defied expectations of disaster but nonetheless was the start of the current troubles. The second year of Brock's push was a nightmare because they refused to follow through with Brock's natural face turn despite starting to do so at the Raw After Mania and then torched Rollins and Ambrose's credibility and forced those crap Undertaker rematches that should have never happened in an effort to get Heel Heat back on him. I wonder why they wouldn't allow Brock to be a face? Who could they have possibly been trying to protect by not allowing that... The Third Year of Brock's push was great other than the Orton debacle. The Orton thing was yet another attempt to force heat onto him for Roman's ultimate benefit, which is why it was the only poo poo part. The feud with Goldberg was brilliant. The only thing tainting it was the revelation before Mania even happened that they were already gearing up for Brock Roman II to main event the NEXT Mania. Roman is 85% of the problem if not more. I don't even like Brock and I can see that the bile you keep spitting his way is exaggerated and misplaced in the extreme. If you really think "The Suplex City Match," is THAT terrible, fine, I won't deny you that opinion, but Brock's BOOKING in the macro sense has been correct and all the things wrong with it are external and entirely to be lain at Roman's feet.
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May 1, 2017 14:37
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roman isnt booking himself what do you want him to do, say sorry vince i should be midcard i quit. freakin lol, idiot
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May 1, 2017 14:41
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MotU posted:roman isnt booking himself what do you want him to do, say sorry vince i should be midcard i quit. freakin lol, idiot I'm not blaming Roman personally, I'm blaming the fact that what the people who make the show are doing with Roman filters down into every other booking decision and makes the entire show worse, even the best parts. Thanks for insulting me for no reason though, that was super necessary. I'm not here talking to someone who wants Brock Lesnar to retire forever because that will somehow make wrestling better and trying to explain why his reasoning is flawed or anything, so surely I must be idiotically blaming the performer for dumb poo poo that is Vince's fault. Glad I got to start my day off being spat at.
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May 1, 2017 14:53
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MotU posted:roman isnt booking himself what do you want him to do, say sorry vince i should be midcard i quit. freakin lol, idiot Reminder that when given the choice between cheering for Roman and the man who convinced Vince that Roman is the guy, people who dislike that Roman is being pushed so hard chose to cheer for the person behind the push.
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May 1, 2017 14:55
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Sanguinia posted:Glad I got to start my day off being spat at. what on earth
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May 1, 2017 14:59
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Roman is good
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May 1, 2017 15:01
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Sanguinia posted:I'm not blaming Roman personally, I'm blaming the fact that what the people who make the show are doing with Roman filters down into every other booking decision and makes the entire show worse, even the best parts. Thanks for insulting me for no reason though, that was super necessary. I'm not here talking to someone who wants Brock Lesnar to retire forever because that will somehow make wrestling better and trying to explain why his reasoning is flawed or anything, so surely I must be idiotically blaming the performer for dumb poo poo that is Vince's fault. Way to take a joke
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May 1, 2017 15:04
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idek what people's problem with Roman is now other than crowds boo him and there's other guys they'd rather see pushed ahead of him. the former shouldn't matter to your own opinion and the latter is at best letting perfect be the enemy of good (and I'm not convinced there's a better guy for the role right now anyway)
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May 1, 2017 15:07
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Nobody's biting, you don't have to keep trying.
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May 1, 2017 15:08
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Sanguinia posted:I'm not blaming Roman personally, I'm blaming the fact that what the people who make the show are doing with Roman filters down into every other booking decision and makes the entire show worse, even the best parts. Thanks for insulting me for no reason though, that was super necessary. I'm not here talking to someone who wants Brock Lesnar to retire forever because that will somehow make wrestling better and trying to explain why his reasoning is flawed or anything, so surely I must be idiotically blaming the performer for dumb poo poo that is Vince's fault. lol
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May 1, 2017 15:10
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MotU posted:roman isnt booking himself what do you want him to do, say sorry vince i should be midcard i quit. freakin lol, idiot Lou Gherig took himself out of the game, if Roman were truly the Big Dog he claims to be, he would do the same. 
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May 1, 2017 15:49
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Sanguinia posted:I'm not blaming Roman personally, I'm blaming the fact that what the people who make the show are doing with Roman filters down into every other booking decision and makes the entire show worse, even the best parts. Thanks for insulting me for no reason though, that was super necessary. I'm not here talking to someone who wants Brock Lesnar to retire forever because that will somehow make wrestling better and trying to explain why his reasoning is flawed or anything, so surely I must be idiotically blaming the performer for dumb poo poo that is Vince's fault. Whoa there, bike pedals weren't meant to go in reverse that hard
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May 1, 2017 16:03
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Roman is good but his booking is poo poo and makes me actively hate him. Brock is good but his booking is poo poo and makes me actively hate him. Just clearing that up.
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May 1, 2017 19:16
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I can't think of anyone in WWE booked better than Brock since at least the start of the Goldberg feud. The only real candidate is Braun.
Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 19:25 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 19:22
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Feels Villeneuve posted:I can't think of anyone in WWE booked better than Brock since at least the start of the Goldberg feud. Brock himself is booked well. It's that his booking takes such a gigantic poo poo on the rest of the card that it's awful.
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May 1, 2017 19:29
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VJeff posted:Lou Gherig took himself out of the game, if Roman were truly the Big Dog he claims to be, he would do the same. chris benoit took himself out of the game too and look what people say about him
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May 1, 2017 19:37
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MotU posted:chris benoit took himself out of the game too and look what people say about him You'd probably get a ten thousand person march to Roman's funeral to chant "YOU DESERVE IT" at the casket.
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May 1, 2017 19:45
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RIP rosey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdtfcOlr0tk
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May 1, 2017 21:27
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but theyre both dead.
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May 1, 2017 21:42
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Spermgod posted:Roman is a lot better wrestler and more charismatic than Finn Spermgod damning with faint praise as always.
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May 1, 2017 23:00
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MotU posted:roman isnt booking himself what do you want him to do, say sorry vince i should be midcard i quit. freakin lol, idiot It IS his fault that he sucks though.
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May 2, 2017 08:56
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I think another problem with Roman is he has not evolved at all. Look at the other two members of the Shield, they have changed so much from what they were in the group and still are changing now. Where Roman still has the same theme, gear and limited move set. It makes everything he does bland and predictable and his matches extremely basic. Now granted you can have a great match with just a few moves as the Brock/Goldberg Mania match proved but that was also less than 5 minutes and a rarity.
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May 2, 2017 13:54
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Djarum posted:I think another problem with Roman is he has not evolved at all. Look at the other two members of the Shield, they have changed so much from what they were in the group and still are changing now. Where Roman still has the same theme, gear and limited move set. It makes everything he does bland and predictable and his matches extremely basic. How can he evolve and still find a way to wear a girdle?
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May 2, 2017 15:08
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Muddy Burphy posted:How can he evolve and still find a way to wear a girdle? According to WWE Champions, he just needs 15 bottles of steroids, 10 sheep masks, 2 Kane masks, and 10 dumbells.
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May 2, 2017 15:25
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Spermgod posted:idek what people's problem with Roman is now other than crowds boo him and there's other guys they'd rather see pushed ahead of him. the former shouldn't matter to your own opinion and the latter is at best letting perfect be the enemy of good (and I'm not convinced there's a better guy for the role right now anyway) He's not a particularly interesting wrestler in any way. His primary attribute is being "THE guy", and like nothing else. And uh the rock's cousin
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May 2, 2017 15:30
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Kawalimus posted:He's not a particularly interesting wrestler in any way. His primary attribute is being "THE guy", and like nothing else. And uh the rock's cousin I'm probably beating a dead horse here but having him turn heel and be a straight up evil gently caress (as opposed to just sort of smug) would solve this problem. Whatever Roman is cool and I like him but he needs something new.
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May 2, 2017 16:04
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There's a real inconsistency problem here too. From the Royal Rumble to Wrestlemania, he was just acting like a smug prick 100% of the time, whether it was to Braun, Undertaker, or whatever else. Then he retires the Undertaker, the most beloved guy in the entire company, and the night after, he's a smug prick again to the audience and a bunch of people cream their pants over what a great job he did standing there and not doing anything for five minutes. Then they're immediately trying to get sympathy and casting him as an underdog. Like, what the gently caress? No, he just retired the loving Undertaker, nobody is gonna feel bad for him. Unless they actually wanted people to cheer "YOU DESERVE IT" at him getting his rear end kicked because durr hurr a reaction's a reaction context is meaningless. MJeff fucked around with this message at 16:14 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 16:09
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VJeff posted:and a bunch of people cream their pants over what a great job he did standing there and not doing anything for five minutes. wait did they seriously do the loving Eddie Guerrero sit there quietly 'promo' thing after he beat the poo poo out of Rey, but with Roman goddamn Reigns? 
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May 2, 2017 16:13
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DJExile posted:wait did they seriously do the loving Eddie Guerrero sit there quietly 'promo' thing after he beat the poo poo out of Rey, but with Roman goddamn Reigns? No he came out the night after Mania and kept trying to start talking and the audience would just keep booing each time and then he just said "it's my yard now" and left. It took literally ten minutes and it was actually kind of great, but then once the hardcore Mania people went home they were just like "ok he's a regular rear end babyface again."
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May 2, 2017 16:19
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DJExile posted:wait did they seriously do the loving Eddie Guerrero sit there quietly 'promo' thing after he beat the poo poo out of Rey, but with Roman goddamn Reigns? He stood in the ring while the crowd loudly booed, chanted "DELETE", "gently caress YOU ROMAN", "YOU SUCK", "rear end in a top hat", "SHUT THE gently caress UP", "GO AWAY" and etc for like a full five minutes. Then he said "This is my yard now." and left. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyJh5pv3vzs Then Graves said "IT'S THE RAW AFTER MANIA, YOU CHEER THE PERSON YOU NORMALLY BOO, YOU BOO THE PERSON YOU NORMALLY CHEER!" and then next week, it was right back to underdog babyface Roman.
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May 2, 2017 16:19
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Overdoing the underdog stuff was also a problem for Cena, especially in that period where he was getting really negative reactions. It's like every feud would be "Can John Cena overcome these odds" when he's been handling all comers clean for months now. If you're gonna have a dominant face it's probably a bad idea to also sell him as an underdog. But that sort of thing is the only thing that will potentially invest people in a guy like Reigns as a face. Heel turn could work but I don't see him ever transitioning from that to the featured face of the company or what have you like a guy like the Rock did. I just don't think Reigns has that potential, though they desperately want him to.
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May 2, 2017 16:28
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I mean let's be real here, Roman's two best qualities in Vince's eyes probably are 1) He looks like an action figure 2) He's never, ever, ever going to pull a Rock/Punk/Cena and bail on Vince to do other stuff.
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May 2, 2017 16:36
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VJeff posted:There's a real inconsistency problem here too. From the Royal Rumble to Wrestlemania, he was just acting like a smug prick 100% of the time, whether it was to Braun, Undertaker, or whatever else. Then he retires the Undertaker, the most beloved guy in the entire company, and the night after, he's a smug prick again to the audience and a bunch of people cream their pants over what a great job he did standing there and not doing anything for five minutes. It's been said many times that Vince cares primarily about if guys get a reaction, not the nature of that reaction. and why not? it shows fans are invested, and the company is making money hand over fist anyway. I know people desperately want the Roman push to be a demonstrable failure but it just isn't on either a business or creative level.
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May 2, 2017 16:41
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Yeah but it's not anything about Roman Reigns inherently that's getting the reaction, it's the booking the guy has that people are pissed off at. The most Roman himself has done to get the reaction he has is be kinda lame at promos and wrestling relatively to his peers.
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May 2, 2017 16:42
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Karmine posted:No he came out the night after Mania and kept trying to start talking and the audience would just keep booing each time and then he just said "it's my yard now" and left. It took literally ten minutes and it was actually kind of great, but then once the hardcore Mania people went home they were just like "ok he's a regular rear end babyface again." aaaah ok that makes a bit more sense
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May 2, 2017 16:48
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Hasn't attendance and ratings been going down pretty consistently too? I mean sure it may not look bad initially because they have their hands in other pots but eventually people are going to get annoyed and go elsewhere.
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May 2, 2017 17:04
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Nothing that you couldn't justifiably attribute to declining live event ratings in general. Network numbers would probably be the best metric and they seem turbulent but predictable.
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May 2, 2017 17:06
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VJeff posted:Yeah but it's not anything about Roman Reigns inherently that's getting the reaction, it's the booking the guy has that people are pissed off at. if it works it works 
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May 2, 2017 17:13
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VJeff posted:Then Graves said "IT'S THE RAW AFTER MANIA, YOU CHEER THE PERSON YOU NORMALLY BOO, YOU BOO THE PERSON YOU NORMALLY CHEER!" I have to imagine all the actually over faces are thrilled about this
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May 2, 2017 17:19
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The_Rob posted:Hasn't attendance and ratings been going down pretty consistently too? I mean sure it may not look bad initially because they have their hands in other pots but eventually people are going to get annoyed and go elsewhere. I seem to recall at one point before the brand split they were doing two house show circuits (which is normal) and the one headlined by Reigns was practically getting lapped by the one headlined by Dean and it was hilarious. It only got worse when the split happened, I think. Wasn't there a RAW PPV that didn't even come close to selling out while the SmackDown PPV later that month had already done so?
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May 2, 2017 17:26
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