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jabby posted:Well, a) I quite like most of the Labour front bench and it annoys me to see the decent politicians get attacked for poo poo that Doesn't Actually Matter, and b) in the post you quoted I was making a general comment about political polls that wasn't specific to Labour or the front bench. I'd counter that actually believing that actual socialist reform could occur in our current political climate is far more mad than going "hurr hurr, hope is a lie" but what do I know? Anyway, you seem to have missed the "sounds more defeatist than I actually am" part of my post, by making the mistake of thinking that the only way politics happens is at Westminster. At this point I really don't see how a revolutionary, syndicalist road to socialism is more absurd than a parliamentary route.
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May 2, 2017 21:22
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OwlFancier posted:He's centrist if you include tankies, like the tories are centrist if you include military juntas. No I mean I agree, his platform is a pacifist social democrat (welfare state for my country, you arrange your part of the world yourself, let's negotiate all the joint stuff). His radicalism, his non-centrism only goes as far as that platform does and the fact that the far left has rallied around him since he entered the leadership contest.
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May 2, 2017 21:24
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OK, they're really going for it: Tory candidates forced to have Theresa May's name on their election billboardsquote:The would-be MPs have been given only one design for the boards, which are put in the gardens of Conservative supporters. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 2, 2017 21:27
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namesake posted:No I mean I agree, his platform is a pacifist social democrat (welfare state for my country, you arrange your part of the world yourself, let's negotiate all the joint stuff). His radicalism, his non-centrism only goes as far as that platform does and the fact that the far left has rallied around him since he entered the leadership contest. And I would suggest that because we live in a nominal democracy, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future, it is a bit silly to restrict the use of the political axis across the actual major political participants because they're all, relatively speaking, in the middle of the axis if you extend the axis to include libertarian dystopia-turned-effective-monarchy and revolutionary anarcho communist syndicalist free association utopia.
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May 2, 2017 21:28
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LemonDrizzle posted:OK, they're really going for it: Tory candidates forced to have Theresa May's name on their election billboards I hope this backfires spectacularly
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May 2, 2017 21:32
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Just put a picture of May's head next to Thatcher's head on a bunch of billboards.
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May 2, 2017 21:31
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It's almost like she has a personal problem with being seen as an illegitimate leader.
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May 2, 2017 21:33
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OwlFancier posted:And I would suggest that because we live in a nominal democracy, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future, it is a bit silly to restrict the use of the political axis across the actual major political participants because they're all, relatively speaking, in the middle of the axis if you extend the axis to include libertarian dystopia-turned-effective-monarchy and revolutionary anarcho communist syndicalist free association utopia. But this is the sort of dumb perspective that ends up with extreme ideologies like monetarism being normalised into the mainstream as the new centrism, and ends up with moderate ideologies like Corbyn's being painted as extreme. There is no way this is positive or helpful. Sure, I might think it'd be great if Jeremy was calling for a new wave of syndicalism to hit the nation, but my views are quite outwith the norm. Corbyn's aren't (aside from on defence). What's the value in pretending they are?
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May 2, 2017 21:32
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Steve2911 posted:It's almost like she has a personal problem with being seen as an illegitimate leader. This seems highly unlikely.
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May 2, 2017 21:34
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OwlFancier posted:And I would suggest that because we live in a nominal democracy, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future, it is a bit silly to restrict the use of the political axis across the actual major political participants because they're all, relatively speaking, in the middle of the axis if you extend the axis to include libertarian dystopia-turned-effective-monarchy and revolutionary anarcho communist syndicalist free association utopia. Okay but abandoning objective assessment of political platforms and turning it purely relative to the moment normalises all the shifts to the right we've had and creates stupid sentences like 'The Tory candidate, running on the left compared to the UKIP candidate for this seat'. There's still plenty of subjectivity involved in saying what the centre is but it has to be defined and parties move around it rather than it move with the parties. JFairfax posted:I hope this backfires spectacularly It'll come out that she stamped on a weasel or something in her kitten heels or a kitten in weasel heels.
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May 2, 2017 21:33
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forkboy84 posted:But this is the sort of dumb perspective that ends up with extreme ideologies like monetarism being normalised into the mainstream as the new centrism, and ends up with moderate ideologies like Corbyn's being painted as extreme. There is no way this is positive or helpful. Sure, I might think it'd be great if Jeremy was calling for a new wave of syndicalism to hit the nation, but my views are quite outwith the norm. Corbyn's aren't (aside from on defence). What's the value in pretending they are? The policies are what they are, I think a democratic socialist platform would be good for the country and is not historically extremely left even within Britain's political landscape, but it is quite firmly left, especially compared to much of the prevailing policy for the last 40 years. The idea that there is a single objective center which doesn't move ignores the concept of the political zeitgeist which is the context in which politics are processed by the majority of people who aren't super interested in the last several hundred years of history. Corbyn's politics are not radical because they fall within perfectly reasonable and frankly very old ideas about how a country is run, so characterizing them as radical or extreme is silly because that implies some new never before tried thing. Characterizing him as a centrist because he isn't a tankie is just... really stupid unless you think that tankies have any relevance in modern politics, other than as a backboard for John McDonnell. It is not helpful for the same reason that median annual temperature graphs where the Y axis goes from 0C to 100C are not helpful. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:43 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 21:34
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More from that poll earlier:quote:Some 49% of people backing Labour now say they are more likely to vote for the party because Corbyn is unlikely to become PM (against 43% who say it makes no difference, and 4% who say likely defeat makes them less likely to vote for the party.) So half of people intending to vote Labour are only prepared to do so for as long as labour winning the election seems unlikely. Because of Jeremy Corbyn. In other words, if labour were somehow able to increase their 28% poll share to an election winning position of, say, 40%, they'd immediately lose at least 14% of those who say they'll vote for them. Jeremy Corbyn is uniquely toxic to the electorate. Pissflaps fucked around with this message at 21:47 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 21:44
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Quote is not edit.
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May 2, 2017 21:46
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Pissflaps posted:This seems highly unlikely. May can't do anything wrong because Corbyn has absorbed the very concept of being wrong so only he can ever be wrong again. What an idiot.
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May 2, 2017 21:44
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Pissflaps posted:More from that poll earlier: This doesn't say that at all when you see the other responses.
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May 2, 2017 21:47
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Corbyn uniquely toxic. May strong and stable.
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May 2, 2017 21:50
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Theresa May is stamping her personal branding all over the campaign because she is the most autocratic PM in recent history, and we have had some pretty autocratic PMs. We're slipping down the road to an elective dictatorship. She refuses debate, she detests dissent. In her video posted in the thread, she talks about 'My party, my candidate.' It's both her personal popularity and her personal style. She wants to secure HER mandate for Brexit. She will completely own the government in the next five years. May is an authoritarian. "It can't happen here", apart from the study (which is awful) in the OP which showed that 25% of the population are "ethnic nationalists" and 25% of the population aren't far off that.
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May 2, 2017 21:49
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Corbyn Dex build May Strength build using dark sword before nerf patch
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May 2, 2017 21:52
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LemonyTang posted:Theresa May is stamping her personal branding all over the campaign because she is the most autocratic PM in recent history, and we have had some pretty autocratic PMs. We're slipping down the road to an elective dictatorship. She refuses debate, she detests dissent. In her video posted in the thread, she talks about 'My party, my candidate.' It's both her personal popularity and her personal style. She wants to secure HER mandate for Brexit. She will completely own the government in the next five years. May is an authoritarian. "It can't happen here", apart from the study (which is awful) in the OP which showed that 25% of the population are "ethnic nationalists" and 25% of the population aren't far off that. Shite isn't it. We need somebody who can oppose her.
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May 2, 2017 21:53
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Regarde Aduck posted:Corbyn Dex build Corbyn 2h STR build because he likes doing the abyss watcher fight by punting them across the room with the poke.
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May 2, 2017 21:54
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Pissflaps posted:Shite isn't it. We need somebody who can oppose her. You should do it.
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May 2, 2017 21:54
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Steve2911 posted:You should do it. I woke up strong and stable but later in the day a goon diagnosed me as being mentally ill after I commented on Diane Abbott's radio interview. Im afraid you'll have to find somebody else.
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May 2, 2017 21:57
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Pissflaps posted:Shite isn't it. We need somebody who can oppose her. Yeah a better leader is going to stop the 50% that identify as either as ethnic nationalists or as something else but with an ideology identical to the ethnic nationalists, from being complete utter cunts.
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May 2, 2017 21:58
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I believe in the Honourable Pissflaps MP
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May 2, 2017 22:00
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Lord Flaps, First Viscount Piss.
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May 2, 2017 22:01
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Looke posted:I believe in the Honourable Pissflaps MP Leader of the Opposition Pissflaps gets hit in the face with the ceremonial mace 4 questions into his first Prime Ministers Questions.
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May 2, 2017 22:03
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OwlFancier posted:Lord Flaps, First Viscount Piss.
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May 2, 2017 22:03
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quote:*Clears throat* Prime Minister,
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May 2, 2017 22:04
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namesake posted:Leader of the Opposition Pissflaps gets hit in the face with the ceremonial mace 4 questions into his first Prime Ministers Questions. It was his own fault for asking the same question 4 times in a row, increasingly nasally
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May 2, 2017 22:08
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I quite like this Ed Miliband lad, he seems to have a healthy touch of humour https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband/status/859492994453573633 E: Imagine Theresa May doing this: 
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May 2, 2017 22:07
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Guavanaut posted:What would he answer to in court? M'Lud Var, obviously.
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May 2, 2017 22:09
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TheRat posted:I quite like this Ed Miliband lad, he seems to have a healthy touch of humour I imagine she'd run over the cord and kill herself having never touched a lawnmower in her life.
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May 2, 2017 22:09
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Laura K continuing her unbiased reporting of the campaign. https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/859485924635406336 E: Meanwhile the NEC is considering harsher punishment against John Woodcock than I thought. 
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May 2, 2017 22:31
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Good old Laura
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May 2, 2017 22:35
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https://twitter.com/sammythedog1989/status/859386794302898177 Quelle Surprise
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May 2, 2017 22:38
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That's loving disgraceful if true.
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May 2, 2017 22:39
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Well... https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/859485924635406336
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May 2, 2017 22:41
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TheRat posted:I quite like this Ed Miliband lad, he seems to have a healthy touch of humour Ed, get a petrol powered lawnmower for goodness sake.
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May 2, 2017 22:47
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forkboy84 posted:Ed, get a petrol powered lawnmower for goodness sake. It's not his, he's mowing the lawn for a lady he met while canvassing.
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May 2, 2017 22:48
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Does she live in a park in a shed?
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May 2, 2017 22:50
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