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Yeah, as I alluded to one of the big challenges I've had with Demon (and presumably other WoD games too, but I haven't STed those) is that the game seems to want you to engage in a lot of intense, personal melodrama but forgets that there are 4+ people at the table. You get example Aspirations like "Buy a new guitar" and Demon in particular wants to be about the tragedy of living under a false, disposable identity and suggests you spend a large chunk of character creation contemplating your ordinary mortal life, but those things are really hard to integrate organically into play without leaving half the group out in the cold while Detective Hugh Mann goes instrument shopping and sorts out his relationship issues. One other thing I will say about Conditions and Aspirations is that they add a layer of bookkeeping that can be a bit trying. Can't tell you how many times someone has missed out on potential xp because we failed to realize they didn't refresh their Aspirations or forgot they had a Condition that would have been really helpful while researching that angel three sessions ago.
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May 2, 2017 20:37
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Vampires have a somewhat natural progression from "trying to survive every day in public feeding grounds" -> "becoming part of the vampire feudal hierarchy" -> "taking control of the vampire feudal hierarchy", the first being what the core 1e book describes and the latter two being 'Barony' and 'Primacy' in Damnation City (which is actually an incredibly good book, BvD aside!) They flow into each other fairly well; once you've learned to survive and become powerful or useful, you can either seize control over a region of the city or be granted it as a reward for service, which elevates you to Barony level. Then, once you've claimed enough power at the Barony level, you start having the power of the lowest playable level of Primacy, and can switch from Barony to Primacy. The transition isn't formalized, but it's very easy to see where the breakpoints are.
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May 2, 2017 20:39
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Terrorforge posted:Yeah, as I alluded to one of the big challenges I've had with Demon (and presumably other WoD games too, but I haven't STed those) is that the game seems to want you to engage in a lot of intense, personal melodrama but forgets that there are 4+ people at the table. You get example Aspirations like "Buy a new guitar" and Demon in particular wants to be about the tragedy of living under a false, disposable identity and suggests you spend a large chunk of character creation contemplating your ordinary mortal life, but those things are really hard to integrate organically into play without leaving half the group out in the cold while Detective Hugh Mann goes instrument shopping and sorts out his relationship issues. Those all sound like problems I'm used to having anyways so it's nothing particularly new at least. I can usually find a way to keep the rest of the players involved when I try and sort out a character's personal stuff. The best is when the players actually listen to me during creation and make their characters actually deeply involved with one another so that their personal drama can be shared.
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May 2, 2017 20:45
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Xinder posted:Those all sound like problems I'm used to having anyways so it's nothing particularly new at least. I can usually find a way to keep the rest of the players involved when I try and sort out a character's personal stuff. The best is when the players actually listen to me during creation and make their characters actually deeply involved with one another so that their personal drama can be shared. At this point I've had enough parties held together only by virtue of stoicly ignoring the fact that the only reason these people have to even be in the place is that they're all PCs that all my future games are going to have a strict "you already know each other gdi" policy, but in this case it's an artifact of an "application"-style player draft where everyone had to make characters not knowing if they or any other given character they might want to have history with would actually end up in the game.
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May 2, 2017 21:19
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Terrorforge posted:Despite the increasingly obvious fact that it's a lost cause, I still hold out hope that someone will unfuck Beast solely because Lairs are totally rad. Given how lovely the WoD gets for everyone involved, there's something oddly comforting about a monster that always has a home to go to, weird and hosed up as it is. More importantly it feels like an excellent mechanism for engineering classic "just according to keikaku" monster movie moments like trapping people in a flooding basement with a ravenous sea-creature or descending into the freaky alien flesh-hive to do battle with the Queen. I remember toying with how Lairs could be revised and one of the things that seemed like it would be rife with potential was that the core of a Lair needed to be physically located in some sort of enclosed space that the Beast could also occupy. Thus, the deepest part of their Lair couldn't be inside of a shoe box or in the middle of a field, but it could just as well be a room in a house or a cave as well as being a trailer, the trunk of a car or a closet. Lairs could also extend their effects externally outward or could keep their limited size, but get deeper. i.e. Bigger on the inside.
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May 2, 2017 21:33
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Terrorforge posted:Yeah, as I alluded to one of the big challenges I've had with Demon (and presumably other WoD games too, but I haven't STed those) is that the game seems to want you to engage in a lot of intense, personal melodrama but forgets that there are 4+ people at the table. You get example Aspirations like "Buy a new guitar" and Demon in particular wants to be about the tragedy of living under a false, disposable identity and suggests you spend a large chunk of character creation contemplating your ordinary mortal life, but those things are really hard to integrate organically into play without leaving half the group out in the cold while Detective Hugh Mann goes instrument shopping and sorts out his relationship issues. Mage is actually great in this regard. I've just started a Mage game, and the textbook helpfully points out that Pentacle (and Seer) higher-ups have zero compunctions about rounding up baby mages and tossing them in cabals. Cuts down the paperwork and gives individual mages responsibility/culpability for their peers.
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May 2, 2017 21:50
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Terrorforge posted:Yeah, as I alluded to one of the big challenges I've had with Demon (and presumably other WoD games too, but I haven't STed those) is that the game seems to want you to engage in a lot of intense, personal melodrama but forgets that there are 4+ people at the table. You get example Aspirations like "Buy a new guitar" and Demon in particular wants to be about the tragedy of living under a false, disposable identity and suggests you spend a large chunk of character creation contemplating your ordinary mortal life, but those things are really hard to integrate organically into play without leaving half the group out in the cold while Detective Hugh Mann goes instrument shopping and sorts out his relationship issues. I think this is honestly a major problem with every WoD game if you emphasize the 'normal person' part of play. In Mage if you what to drive home Mages use magic to deal with mundane problems you need to have mundane problems to begin with, so there's that. Vampires don't usually have 'mundane' problems but they do have their personal obsessions and prior lives to sort through, which presents much the same problem (to say nothing of your Ordo coterie mate who wants to run off and research blood for weeks at a time). Changeling and Promethean both deal directly with the same kind of issue you're talking about in Demon, too. One of the things I've always found really critical in WoD (as opposed to say, D&D) is that the characters must connect to each other and give a poo poo about each other's plights before play begins, or at least established potential connections need to exist. If you have 4+ people just kind of show up with fully fleshed out character concepts with no indication how or why they're supposed to give a poo poo about each other than nobody is going to care when Hugh Mann wants to start a band. Ideally, though, the other 4+ people want to be in his band.
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May 2, 2017 21:54
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One of the things I dislike about Requiem 1e is that they were so eager to get away from "superheroes with fangs" that they played up the soul-crushing awfulness of being a vampire to the point that you gotta wonder why you'd want to play this game at all. (For example, really leaning on the "you're not a person, you're a shadow of a person, everything you think and feel is a pale shadow of how you used to think and feel" in the Mekhet book.)
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May 2, 2017 22:00
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Terrorforge posted:At this point I've had enough parties held together only by virtue of stoicly ignoring the fact that the only reason these people have to even be in the place is that they're all PCs that all my future games are going to have a strict "you already know each other gdi" policy, but in this case it's an artifact of an "application"-style player draft where everyone had to make characters not knowing if they or any other given character they might want to have history with would actually end up in the game. I once went crazy and started keeping a .txt of "backup characters" in case someone's character died or the player left and we had to replace them. It was just a list of NPCs around player level that were already introduced and could reasonably be talked into joining the party. I did this for like 3 games in a row.
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May 2, 2017 22:04
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Mendrian posted:(to say nothing of your Ordo coterie mate who wants to run off and research blood for weeks at a time) That's another problem I've been having; managing the passage of time. I've had lots of awkward moments where someone tries to engage in an extended action that takes a few days, but halfway through their action someone else initiates what turns out to be a 90-minute RP encounter. Starting to see why dungeon crawls are the default mode for elfgames.
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May 2, 2017 22:28
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Halloween Jack posted:One of the things I dislike about Requiem 1e is that they were so eager to get away from "superheroes with fangs" that they played up the soul-crushing awfulness of being a vampire to the point that you gotta wonder why you'd want to play this game at all. (For example, really leaning on the "you're not a person, you're a shadow of a person, everything you think and feel is a pale shadow of how you used to think and feel" in the Mekhet book.) I kinda want to see a vampire game some day where they genuinely lean into the superheroes with fangs thing instead of it being an unintended consequence or something to be warded off.
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May 2, 2017 22:31
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but then you could just make a vampire in a standard superhero system. And get to try to fight giant robots!
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May 2, 2017 22:56
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Looks like the links to the backer C20 PDF are going out.
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May 2, 2017 23:14
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I have questions about vampires and clans; are the clans we have in the Requiem core book universal to all of human civilisation? Requiem for Rome gives them these fairly specific origin points (Nosferatu are from Dacia, Julians from Rome, Daeva from somewhere in the Iranian cultural region, and so forth), but Dark Eras has Kindred in pre-European-contact Mexico like they've always been there, although their clans are never mentioned. Meanwhile, the Mutapa setting for the Dark Eras Companion book has the vampires of southern Africa as being unique creatures called varoyi, and specifically contrasts them with Kindred from further north. I think it was mentioned earlier upthread that vampirism is a sort of spiritual disease, a repeatable condition that can be inflicted on a human, but I can't find that post now. Do the same five clans just arise in multiple different places, or are there regional clans that come from specific areas? Were there different clans in the Americas prior to the coming of Europeans? And if the five clans are universal like that, what does that make the other clans introduced in old first edition sourcebooks like VII or Requiem for Rome? Are the varoyi Striges, or a different clan originating from southern Africa, or something else?
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May 3, 2017 00:04
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I haven't checked out any of the newer books, but doesn't the original Requiem make a point of saying that nobody really knows what the clans are or where they came from as part of the franchise-wide effort to avoid the whole "well I read in Clanbook Malkavian that actually" problem by just explicitly saying "it's up to you"? e: iirc one of the suggested origins is that the various Kindred clans themselves don't even share common ancestors Terrorforge fucked around with this message at 00:18 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 00:15
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Night10194 posted:I kinda want to see a vampire game some day where they genuinely lean into the superheroes with fangs thing instead of it being an unintended consequence or something to be warded off. supernatural: the fakeIDening
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May 3, 2017 01:05
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So do we have any ETA on Scion 2e? I'm a wee bit out of the loop
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May 3, 2017 01:32
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Jade Mage posted:So do we have any ETA on Scion 2e? I'm a wee bit out of the loop It won't be out in May. ETA is supposedly 1d10 months away. Relevant quote is "I promise you this is a delay of weeks or months, not a delay of years."
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May 3, 2017 01:46
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Rand Brittain posted:Looks like the links to the backer C20 PDF are going out. It begins.
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May 3, 2017 01:50
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Okay so the first piece of fiction drops in... A childling satyr, the creepiest (in a bad way) combo. Not three pages of content in and I'm already agitated. Let's see what's next - oh, more fiction! Like, eight pages of it. Fiction-after-fiction is bad layout in my book, especially in large chunks before any actual text (technically there's the whole 'changeling is dope! 20th anniversay section at the front from various commentors, but it doesn't count.) But at least it's something interesting-ish. House Varich, a Russian Sidhe house, is a Big Deal in the business world here -presumably because of their innate pattern-recognition (makes sense, too, but now I can only picture a Varich boss being like Peter Gregory to his mundane coworkers. Something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUxMY77i0q4.) and it's set in a whole corporate glass tower deal, so we're already bucking some of the 'everything that isn't drawing, poetry, sex, or dancing naked in a field is banal' element. The story's some heist thing, revenge plots, etcetera - not great, but not awful, and just for embracing the idea that Changelings might not be totally uninterested in corporate power gets a nod. Of course, evil Russian plutocrat is a little played out these days since one is indirectly running America, and the Varich use the same feudalish structure as everyone else which is a shame. If you're going to lean so heavy on ethnically tied kiths and houses, having weird takes and hybrids of the traditional aristocracies of those societies play out among the kithain should go with it. Also, I want Troll boyars. There's some inadvertant horror here and there that I dig. "Dreamers know, on some level, that they aren’t alone, that the magical beings from stories and fables walk among them. They might deny it if someone asks — after all, who wants to be seen as someone crazy enough to believe in faeries — but they cross their fingers behind their backs when they do. They know, and the faeries see them. " For instance. I don't know about you, but being seen by an Unseelie redcap seems like something that might end badly for everyone involved. We also get DA:Fae woven in a little in the history chapter with a barely decipherable manuscript referencing the collapse of the DA:Fae society - but then we launch right into the mythic history invented by the Firstborn to manipulate human puppets, Changeling's original backstory with the Tuatha etc. Now though the Fomorians and Thallain were undeniably first, so the natural state of the Dreaming is nightmares, not smiles, with inanimae rising up from mankind's hopes and dreams to fight the Fomorians and in the doing spawning the Fae from the immense energies unleashed. Pretty dope - a dark tyrant born of the first murder wrestling an actual mountain comes to mind. More interweaving of DA:Fae with Stones etc, and then back into the conventional history. Sidebar time. Whenever there's a Big Event, trods open up and more Sidhe get shoved into our world, just like in 1969. Nice explanation of why the Sidhe aren't totally finite. But what Big Events have created more? Fall of the Berlin Wall. End of Apartheid. Election of Barack Obama. One of those things seems unlike the others, even taking into account the whole Hope and Change campaign message (did the realization Obama was kind of more of the same when it came to drones and human rights abuses create a corresponding influx of thallain, I wonder?) 9/11 is affirmed as the explicit cause of the 2001 'Evanescence' of the dark kiths now, too, and the appearance of the Eye of Balor (AKA, the Red Star, Anthelios, the Eye of the Wyrm, General 'This Ain't Good' Celestial Body, etc) which lasted just a week. Which does raise two prospects. One, it took the Kithain longer to be able to perceive the Red Star than anyone else and lost the ability soonest, or two, this version is simultaneously playing with the metaplot while changing its origins up significantly. High King David, the Chosen Sidhe Who Was Kind of Okay, returns in 2005 as a broken and shattered wreck of a man, so the civil war plotline isn't totally off the table but lost its #1 motivating factor. The late 2000s see a huge uptick in banality, making many changelings starve and their balefires collapse. The response of Our Chosen One, His Benevolence High King David ap Ardry ap Gwydion of Concordia, Bearer of the Caliburn, is... 'There's plenty of glamour to go around just use less of it you guys, I'm sure the rest of the Sidhe will be happy to help out and share their wealth with you guys, you know, the people they violently conquered and enslaved into a system of quasi-medieval fuedal dictatorship. P.s. I'm not going to force them to so you'll have to rely on their benevolence'. Great job, Oh Chosen One. The upside of this is that the civil war plotline is right back on the table with a whole 'we are literally dying you loving pricks help us' motive replacing 'who will win the game of thrones?' one. Oh, and Winter is Coming - the Long Winter, that is. Dark fae are roaming and killing poo poo, sinister organizations are blossoming in power, the Houses of the Sidhe are halfway to an internal civil war as it is, and the Sidhe are using Sovereign more and more to maintain order. As we all know, Literal Magic Mind Control Powers are the best way to create a loyal population. So... Dark things in the night, Winter is Coming, Starvation, Refugee Crisis, lovely Nobility? Oh poo poo, all that's happened is we've gone from Season 2 of Game of Thrones to Season 6, but with fairies. More later. Back to work.
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May 3, 2017 03:00
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Loomer posted:More later. Back to work. Edge of my seat. I hate this setting already and I am glad for Faerie starvation.
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May 3, 2017 03:08
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The Sin of Onan posted:Dark Eras has Kindred in pre-European-contact Mexico like they've always been there, although their clans are never mentioned.
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May 3, 2017 03:19
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2e seems to say that while the core five clans are common, they aren't universal - see also the jiangshi clan in the city section of the core.
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May 3, 2017 03:58
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One development - not exactly new, but much more explicit now - is that the Arcadian Sidhe can and sometimes do undertake the Birthing Way rituals. Which raises an interesting question - when Lord Bazza reincarnates a couple of times, will his political beliefs shift away from 'I am the lord your sidhe' to 'you know, maybe violently enslaving everyone who lived here was a dick move'? It might make an interesting 'third faction' in a Sidhe civil war over the matter. House Liam, some of Dougal, and Scathach screaming at the others to gently caress off back to Arcadia if they like their hierarchies so much, every other House trying to do the whole 'DIVINE RIGHT OF KINGS' thing, and the reincarnated sons and daughters of every House politely suggesting that the Sidhe might perhaps keep their hierarchies for themselves and permit self-governance of the commoners, the two coexisting and sharing power within the parliament. We'll find out if there's anything like that in there as we go, but it seems like a logical direction to take it.
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May 3, 2017 05:51
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Mors Rattus posted:2e seems to say that while the core five clans are common, they aren't universal - see also the jiangshi clan in the city section of the core. Yeah, I feel like things like the 2E version of the Jiangsi in one of the example cities, the history around extinct clans like the Julii and the TRADITORES, etc. all add up to room being left to add new clans, past or present.
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May 3, 2017 08:24
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The Sin of Onan posted:I have questions about vampires and clans; are the clans we have in the Requiem core book universal to all of human civilisation? Requiem for Rome gives them these fairly specific origin points (Nosferatu are from Dacia, Julians from Rome, Daeva from somewhere in the Iranian cultural region, and so forth), but Dark Eras has Kindred in pre-European-contact Mexico like they've always been there, although their clans are never mentioned. Meanwhile, the Mutapa setting for the Dark Eras Companion book has the vampires of southern Africa as being unique creatures called varoyi, and specifically contrasts them with Kindred from further north. Both. The Mekhet have three provable historical origins in completely different places, and dozens of apocryphal ones. Vampires exhibit covergent evolution - the vampiric condition has many, many different possible causes, and over time examples start to resemble one another as they mingle Vitae through blood bonds, siring, uplifting revenants to full Kindred and the like. The Jiangshi in Requiem 2e are said to be more Kindred-like than their older generations were; they're turning into a Clan. How much of this is due to Strix possession is an exercise for the Storyteller.
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May 3, 2017 09:18
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I just remembered that I made this up a couple of weeks back and never got around to posting it. It's a mostly complete net of companies and corporate entities from the oWoD. Good fodder for Werewolf games or more economic-minded Ventrue, Syndicate, Giovanni, etc. Or for a Project Twilight game where the PCs wind up uncovering the shadowy web of corporatist wyrm-fascists and their jackboot allies. http://i.imgur.com/G76KNM5.png Linked it since it's quite massive. Loomer fucked around with this message at 15:56 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 11:07
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Both. Revenants are the vampires that are spawned accidently from corpses right? Is there a book that goes into their condition, because that was one of the seemingly throw away lines from the core book that really seemed like a neat aspect to explore.
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May 3, 2017 17:02
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Soonmot posted:Revenants are the vampires that are spawned accidently from corpses right? Is there a book that goes into their condition, because that was one of the seemingly throw away lines from the core book that really seemed like a neat aspect to explore. Feeding Deaths and Ghouls can both come back as Revenants. And there's been at least one Bloodline with a greater connection to Revenants that I believe MachineIV worked out, but I'm not sure about additional book real-estate. Which I do think is a bit of an oversight. Like, I don't see how the Ordo at least doesn't just love Revenants and actively fold them into the Covenant. They get to choose their Clan, Dracula is sold as one, so you'd think it would at least seem less of a stigma if not celebrated in the Covenant. I really love the Revenant concept and that level of play for solo or slow games or as preludes. It really forces the player to focus on the horror of nightly life as a fresh turn. The 'mistake' embrace is a recurring theme among the various games and players I see - so people who like those should be drawn to it as a concept. The nightly need for blood makes hunting the most important aspect right off the bat. And because you wake up starving, frenzy is an everyday risk. It does so much to encapsulate that transition from human to vampire that whenever I have a player new to Vampire as a game, I recommend they go that route. After that is neonate level play where Clan/Cov/City politics starts to influence the PC more than the Kindred biological-state itself, and I think it's important that people don't skip that really focused turning experience.
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May 3, 2017 17:48
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Soonmot posted:Revenants are the vampires that are spawned accidently from corpses right? Is there a book that goes into their condition, because that was one of the seemingly throw away lines from the core book that really seemed like a neat aspect to explore. Try Night Horrors: Wicked Dead, the go-to book for all things not-quite-Kindred.
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May 3, 2017 18:47
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LatwPIAT posted:Try Night Horrors: Wicked Dead, the go-to book for all things not-quite-Kindred. Yeah, Night Horrors is great, but Revenants *are* kindred, not a different breed of immortal parasite, I thought. Barbed is dead on about the Ordo, though, I had never considered that, but now it makes perfect sense.
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May 3, 2017 19:29
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Soonmot posted:Revenants are the vampires that are spawned accidently from corpses right? Is there a book that goes into their condition, because that was one of the seemingly throw away lines from the core book that really seemed like a neat aspect to explore. They're one of the focuses of Half-Damned, one of the 2e supplements in the works. Not sure how close or far that is from publication.
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May 3, 2017 20:21
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Soonmot posted:Yeah, Night Horrors is great, but Revenants *are* kindred, not a different breed of immortal parasite, I thought. Sort of. They're fundamentally a sort of "lesser Kindred", but the book uses the phrases "Revenant" and "Kindred" as mutually exclusive terms. Probably a semantic difference born out of kindred elitism, but there it is. e: and ftr "not-quite-Kindred vampires" is the exact phrase the 2e rulebook uses to describe Revenants
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May 3, 2017 20:27
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Terrorforge posted:Sort of. They're fundamentally a sort of "lesser Kindred", but the book uses the phrases "Revenant" and "Kindred" as mutually exclusive terms. Probably a semantic difference born out of kindred elitism, but there it is. Ohhh, I thought they were more like oWoD's Caitiff where it's a status issue.
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May 3, 2017 20:28
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Soonmot posted:Ohhh, I thought they were more like oWoD's Caitiff where it's a status issue. Much like the Caitiff it seems to be both. On one hand, they're clearly different from standard Kindred on a metaphysiological level and reasonably deserve to be classified as something not wholly like an ordinary vampire. On the other hand it seems the main reason Kindred want to draw really, really clear lines between Revenants/Caitiff and "True Kindred" is that they don't want to associate with the riff-raff. Though I will say that this attitude is somewhat more understandable with Revanants, since their defining mutation is that they cannot store Vitae from night to night and are thus alarmingly prone to feeding Frenzies even before you consider the fact that they almost certainly didn't have a mentor to beat even the basics of vampire etiquette into them.
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May 3, 2017 20:40
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Soonmot posted:Ohhh, I thought they were more like oWoD's Caitiff where it's a status issue. I'd argue it's still mostly a status issue. Revenants are just the Kindred template applied with a few of the vampire abilities paywalled until they get uplifted into a clan proper. Instead of losing one blood every daysleep, they lose all of it. The don't get in-clans. They can't learn blood sorcery or devotions (which doesn't make a lot of sense since ghouls can do that, but sure.) They can't make blood bonds, ghouls or embrace. Anything that affects a 'kindred' affects a revenant in the same way unless people are getting real semantic with mechanical arguments. Vampire 2e posted:When a wooden stake penetrates the Kindred heart, the vampire immediately enters torpor. Can revenants be staked? Pretty sure they go to torpor just the same, etc. In any case, they don't have different feeding mechanics or special abilities like Larva and the others vampiric entities get, nor any special immunities to any of the mechanics that 'Kindred Vampires' suffer. And when they get uplifted they just become normal Kindred. Terrorforge is correct about the fear Revenants should put on anyone with a Hunting Ground. They need a lot of blood every day. Most neonates need a lot of blood whenever they go adventure, but revenants are a constant drain and a constant risk. I also love the adoption vs. natural child themes that creep in. It takes a humanity to uplift a revenant into a full Clan. It also takes a humanity to embrace. Why would a Sire pay that cost for a random reject/accident when they could hand-pick a childe?
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May 3, 2017 20:46
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Barbed Tongues posted:I'd argue it's still mostly a status issue. Revenants are just the Kindred template applied with a few of the vampire abilities paywalled until they get uplifted into a clan proper. Instead of losing one blood every daysleep, they lose all of it. The don't get in-clans. They can't learn blood sorcery or devotions (which doesn't make a lot of sense since ghouls can do that, but sure.) They can't make blood bonds, ghouls or embrace. Anything that affects a 'kindred' affects a revenant in the same way unless people are getting real semantic with mechanical arguments. The sidebar explicitly says "Unless noted below, revenants function identically to Kindred." and lists a few things like the total Vitae loss, lack of Clan weakness, Blood Potency locked at 1 etc., so I think the only semantic argument you could ever make is some extreme edge case where a Mage is somehow weaponising the social/linguistic construct of "Kindred".
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May 3, 2017 20:54
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Holy poo poo, total blood loss? That's terrifying
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May 3, 2017 20:57
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Total vitae loss?
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May 3, 2017 21:17
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Kurieg posted:Total vitae loss? Vampire: The Requiem 2e posted:Vitae: Revenants can store a number of Vitae equal to five plus their Stamina. Each night upon waking, they lose all their stored Vitae, and awaken starved. Often, the loss of Vitae takes the form of sweating out their stolen blood as they sleep.
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#
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May 3, 2017 21:24
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