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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Anakin is not Darth Vader. At that point he had already killed those Sand People. He was Vader. This is canon.
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May 3, 2017 03:48
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Yaws posted:I don't think you know what a joke is.
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May 3, 2017 03:48
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Yaws posted:At that point he had already killed those Sand People. He was Vader. This is canon. Ignoring the scene in the next movie where he was crowned Vader. Well, actually, there is a good argument that was his first walk to the darkside, but it would be years before he fell.
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May 3, 2017 03:51
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Did Taintfucker not read the thread? He/She/Tezzor is repeating the exact same things that have been posted probably over 100 times. It's getting pretty annoying. Also, the original trilogy is bad because it was badly written, badly directed, and poorly acted. I can forgive the acting though since they had to deal with blue screen and talk to people with their hands up a puppets anus.
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May 3, 2017 03:54
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Covok posted:Ignoring the scene in the next movie where he was crowned Vader. So that's the criteria? He's not a bad guy until some old man in bad makeup says so? I don't think you really "get" Star Wars UmOk posted:Did Taintfucker grow up Yaws fucked around with this message at 03:56 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 03:53
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Yaws posted:My favorite part of the prequels is C3PO and R2 being at Darth Vaders wedding. Remember that? Doesn't that make the OT better? Knowing C3PO was the best man at Darth Vaders wedding? I don't get why Anakin's son and foul mouthed friend being at Anakin's wedding detracts anything from the OT. In fact, it adds some dramatic irony.
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May 3, 2017 03:55
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Yaws posted:At that point he had already killed those Sand People. He was Vader. This is canon. No, canon would be the point where Palpatine officially changed Anakin's name to Vader (forcing everyone to update their wikis). And then, beyond canon, Anakin did not actually become Vader until the mask was installed.
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May 3, 2017 03:58
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Detective No. 27 posted:I don't get why Anakin's son and foul mouthed friend being at Anakin's wedding detracts anything from the OT. In fact, it adds some dramatic irony. Luke was not at Vaders wedding and the droids being there is another instance of Lucas awkwardly cramming in major characters from the OT. It's kinda hilarious when you watch the originals and recontextualize all the dopey poo poo from the PT. Lucas knew what fans wanted and they got it but the films suffered for it.
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May 3, 2017 04:03
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Anakin doesn't become Vader until he does the one thing so unforgivable that he can't walk back from it, and so entirely cuts ties with his old identity. It's not killing the Tuskens, he still would have a chance there if he'd told Obi-Wan and sought to redeem himself. Palpatine names him after he kills Mace and basically declares war on the Jedi Order, which isn't a bad choice, all things considered. But he's still clearly conflicted by Mustafar, so personally, I'd say the moment he really becomes Vader in his own mind is killing Padme.
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May 3, 2017 04:04
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C-3PO is Anakin's first born, you dolt. 
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May 3, 2017 04:04
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Lord Hydronium posted:Anakin doesn't become Vader until he does the one thing so unforgivable that he can't walk back from it, and so entirely cuts ties with his old identity. I would argue that mass murder is irredeemable. At least that's what our society has landed on. The guy was a lost cause after that.
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May 3, 2017 04:09
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Yaws posted:Luke was not at Vaders wedding and the droids being there is another instance of Lucas awkwardly cramming in major characters from the OT. It's kinda hilarious when you watch the originals and recontextualize all the dopey poo poo from the PT.
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May 3, 2017 04:10
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Yaws posted:I would argue that mass murder is irredeemable. At least that's what our society has landed on. You're losing track of your own point. The mass murder, regardless of whether you consider it excusable or not, was committed by the human Anakin Skywalker.
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May 3, 2017 04:11
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Yaws posted:I would argue that mass murder is irredeemable. At least that's what our society has landed on. Did you sleep through Return of the Jedi?
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May 3, 2017 04:13
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Jewmanji posted:There's a cool moment in the commentary track for TPM, during the scene where Qui-Gon is disemboweling the blast doors of the Trade Federation ship, where Lucas said he wanted to Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon to evoke a kind of unstoppable force in that moment, akin to Godzilla. Lucas' depiction of the Jedi in the prequels is so wonderfully disorienting. As has been noted elsewhere, it visually quotes the climax of known good movie "Forbidden Planet." Lord Hydronium posted:So recontextualizing is...bad? The OT isn't some precious fragile thing that needs to be preserved in amber. Big parts of ANH entirely changed in meaning when Vader became Luke's father, both of the first two changed when ROTJ added its revelations to the mix, the whole trilogy changed with the PT, and TFA and R1 are still putting all the movies in a new context. It's part of telling a serial storyline, and a good thing. An installment that told us exactly what we already knew and changed nothing about how we saw the rest would be pointless. Yeah. Even Rogue One, which told us very little we didn't know, expanded the scope of Imperial arrogance to extend not only to their creation but also to the process by which it was created, and posed and resolved the question of why it took nearly twenty years for the Rebellion to accomplish any victory. Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 04:17 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 04:14
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You're losing track of your own point. The mass murder, regardless of whether you consider it excusable or not, was committed by the human Anakin Skywalker. Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 04:16 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 04:14
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Lord Hydronium posted:So recontextualizing is...bad? The OT isn't some precious fragile thing that needs to be preserved in amber. Big parts of ANH entirely changed in meaning when Vader became Luke's father, both of the first two changed when ROTJ added its revelations to the mix, the whole trilogy changed with the PT, and TFA and R1 are still putting all the movies in a new context. It's part of telling a serial storyline, and a good thing. An installment that told us exactly what we already knew and changed nothing about how we saw the rest would be pointless. Well yes, but there is degrees of severity. Threepio and R2 being witness at Vaders wedding doesn't add anything relevant to the Star Wars universe. It's just a stupid and needless aside. It's unintentionally funny.
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May 3, 2017 04:17
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Yaws posted:Well yes, but there is degrees of severity. Threepio and R2 being witness at Vaders wedding doesn't add anything relevant to the Star Wars universe. It's just a stupid and needless aside. It's unintentionally funny. Why wouldn't Anakin's son and son-in-law be there?
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May 3, 2017 04:18
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Yaws posted:Well yes, but there is degrees of severity. Threepio and R2 being witness at Vaders wedding doesn't add anything relevant to the Star Wars universe. It's just a stupid and needless aside. It's unintentionally funny. Id probably invite my son and his life partner, who saved my wifes life, to my wedding but hey thats me.
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May 3, 2017 04:20
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Lord Hydronium posted:Yeah, pinning all the bad poo poo Anakin does on a villain named "Vader" is what Obi-Wan does as a coping mechanism. Spoiler: it turns out to be the wrong choice. Not only that, but any idiot can commit a mass murder. Vader is beyond such things. "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."
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May 3, 2017 04:19
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Bongo Bill posted:Why wouldn't Anakin's son and son-in-law be there? Darth Vader has one son. His name is Luke Skywalker.
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May 3, 2017 04:20
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Yaws posted:Darth Vader has one son. His name is Luke Skywalker. Droids are people.
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May 3, 2017 04:21
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Yaws posted:Darth Vader has one son. His name is Luke Skywalker. C3PO is a person.
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May 3, 2017 04:24
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Bongo Bill posted:Droids are people. Droids are tools. C3PO was built from trash by a slave to help with housework.
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May 3, 2017 04:25
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Yaws posted:Oh come on. This gets brought up every few pages. Give it a rest. You seem to have confused a talking, thinking, feeling slave with a roomba.
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May 3, 2017 04:29
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Bongo Bill posted:You seem to have confused a talking, thinking, feeling slave with a roomba. C3P0 is arguably less a slave than Anakin was given that his head wouldnt explode if he pissed off Anakin.
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May 3, 2017 04:29
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Yaws posted:C3PO was built from trash by a slave to help with housework. He's still a person. You were built from dead animals and plants by mitochondria to help propagate their genetic material. You are a tool too. And also a person.
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May 3, 2017 04:29
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How characters treat with droids reveals alot about them. Tools don't scream in pain when tortured.
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May 3, 2017 04:29
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Barudak posted:C3P0 is arguably less a slave than Anakin was given that his head wouldnt explode if he pissed off Anakin. Well, droids wear chains of a different kind.
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May 3, 2017 04:29
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TheKingofSprings posted:Did you sleep through Return of the Jedi? Yaws posted:Well yes, but there is degrees of severity. Threepio and R2 being witness at Vaders wedding doesn't add anything relevant to the Star Wars universe. Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 04:35 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 04:32
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Detective No. 27 posted:How characters treat with droids reveals alot about them. It betrays a lack of empathy for people that do not resemble them.
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May 3, 2017 04:31
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Yaws posted:Well yes, but there is degrees of severity. Threepio and R2 being witness at Vaders wedding doesn't add anything relevant to the Star Wars universe. It's just a stupid and needless aside. It's unintentionally funny. How could his son and his best man not be there? (The son and best man are later gifted between the bride and groom). Yaws posted:Oh come on. This gets brought up every few pages. Give it a rest. Bringing up one of the major themes of Star Wars in the Star Wars thread? Next we'll be talking about the Force and its Dark Side or the politics of fascism and rebellion. In Droid Talk, the best character in the KoToR games in the murderdroid programmed to call organics "meatbags" and who loves murdering non-Droids. I don't think that's even controversial, although Kreia and Jolee Bindo are also popular choices. Incidentally all have something to say about the main themes of Star Wars. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 04:35 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 04:32
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Hodgepodge posted:How could his son and his best man not be there? Hm. Upon reflection, identifying Artoo as the best man is definitely a more accurate reason for him to be there. They still barely knew each other by that point, didn't they?
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May 3, 2017 04:34
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Bongo Bill posted:You seem to have confused a talking, thinking, feeling slave with a roomba. That thinking and feeling ain't real chum. It was programmed into them by a sentient being. You could tinker around with C3PO and completely change his "personality".
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May 3, 2017 04:33
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Bongo Bill posted:Hm. Upon reflection, identifying Artoo as the best man is definitely a more accurate reason for him to be there. They still barely knew each other by that point, didn't they? I'm not actually sure, to be honest.
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May 3, 2017 04:34
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Yaws posted:That thinking and feeling ain't real chum. It was programmed into them by a sentient being. You could tinker around with C3PO and completely change his "personality". Well, there are two objections here. The first one is that you can tinker around with a human brain and change their personality as well. The second one is that I can't tinker around with C-3PO because he's a fictional being from a setting in which it's impossible to create a robot that isn't also a person.
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May 3, 2017 04:36
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Bongo Bill posted:Hm. Upon reflection, identifying Artoo as the best man is definitely a more accurate reason for him to be there. They still barely knew each other by that point, didn't they?
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May 3, 2017 04:36
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Yaws posted:That thinking and feeling ain't real chum. It was programmed into them by a sentient being. You could tinker around with C3PO and completely change his "personality". brain so smooth its basically a kidney bean
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May 3, 2017 04:35
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You can't tinker with a real person and change their personality, nor are they created by people, I say as I take my antidepressant to cope with the stresses of parenting.
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May 3, 2017 04:39
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Lord Hydronium posted:Now here's a question: is there any way Palpatine could have been redeemed? In the otherwise not-very-good Legends comic Dark Empire, Luke tries to do just that (and fails because, well, Palpatine). It's a very Luke thing to try, but would it even be possible? How much evil makes someone unforgivable? I personally feel it'd be an insult to Palpatine's character for him to be redeemed or to be shown altrustic in any way. But, that's just me.
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May 3, 2017 04:43
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