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source: me
icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 07:50 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 07:48
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icantfindaname posted:source: me appreciate your straightforwardness 
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May 3, 2017 07:49
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icantfindaname posted:The problem with culture as an explanation for behavior is a fundamental epistemological one, that is it's impossible to observe whether culture is actually acting on the person exhibiting the behavior. If you have one Japanese guy and he acts in a certain way you can't open his brain up and see how much 'Japanese culture' is operating on it as an independent variable. If he acts in a way contrary to what you hypothesize 'Japanese culture' to cause you can simply write him off as not being affected by Japanese culture. There's no way to distinguish Japanese culture from the observed outcomes of Japanese culture and thus it can't be used as an independent, causative factor for those outcomes. It's tautological, you're saying "Japanese people act the way they do because that's the way Japanese people act" to be honest i really appreciate you taking the time to write this and i would seriously loving love to take you out for beers and talk about this poo poo over like 3 beers.
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May 3, 2017 07:54
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man i'm just a guy who writes indignant forum posts about japan Japan is fascinating though because IMO everything wrong with the place can be easily explained by it being much poorer than Western Europe until the 1970s (immediately before ww2 and immediately after it recovered it tracked very closely with russia and latin america in development, then shot forward in about 15 years) but the popular discourse pretty much 100% attributes it to 'culture'/their brains just work different icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 08:04 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 08:02
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icantfindaname posted:man i'm just a guy who writes indignant forum posts about japan I was going to shitpost flaming you about this but your self-awareness now makes me reconsider everything
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May 3, 2017 08:04
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I wish I could've been in Japan for the 80s, everything about the peak bubble era is so nutty. And the stories of early JET program when you could roll over to Tokyo and be making the equivalent of $80,000/year for no reason. 
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May 3, 2017 08:08
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Yeah I don't think most people realize just how poor Japan was before the postwar boom. According to this dataset Japan in 1956, the year it recovered from the war in GDP per capita terms, was at the same level the USA was in the year 1880 and where Germany and France were in 1900. It then proceeded to equal France and Germany by 1975 http://www.macrohistory.net/data/#DownloadData icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 08:15 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 08:13
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Well, that certainly makes sense. What with near every factory being shifted to produce war materiel, then getting firebombed/shock bombed/nuked to high hell and back, I'm surprised it took that long to get heavy commercial industry cranked up again - even with American support and investment.
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May 3, 2017 08:21
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japan owns i'm going back in a few weeks and can not wait
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May 3, 2017 08:26
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WarpedNaba posted:Well, that certainly makes sense. What with near every factory being shifted to produce war materiel, then getting firebombed/shock bombed/nuked to high hell and back, I'm surprised it took that long to get heavy commercial industry cranked up again - even with American support and investment. Yeah but I mean before the war too. Japan was on the same development track that countries like Turkey and Mexico were on, there was no reason right after WW2 to expect Japan to be any wealthier than those countries in the long term. Then of course there's Argentina, which was actually as wealthy as Western Europe before WW2 and floated downward to Mexico/Turkey levels after the war because Peronism basically. The Japanese miracle wasn't just that they rebuilt the stuff the USAF had bombed  edit:included China so it's relevant icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 08:52 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 08:38
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The Great Autismo! posted:japan owns i'm going back in a few weeks and can not wait I wish I'd managed to snag a spot in Japan instead of Korea. The latter had its high points (Most of which had nothing to do with the job) but the former I at least had some familiarity with. Ended up noting a lot of similarities, though. icantfindaname posted:Yeah but I mean before the war too. Japan was on the same development track that countries like Turkey and Mexico were on, there was no reason right after WW2 to expect Japan to be any wealthier than those countries in the long term. Then of course there's Argentina, which was actually as wealthy as Western Europe before WW2 and floated downward to Mexico/Turkey levels after the war because Peronism basically. The Japanese miracle wasn't just that they rebuilt the stuff the USAF had bombed Huh. I can't read the Y-axis but I'm assuming it's GDP per capita?
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May 3, 2017 09:01
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Haier posted:
Weird to see old Tony mentioned here, but understandable.
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May 3, 2017 09:36
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icantfindaname posted:man i'm just a guy who writes indignant forum posts about japan I did some time in japan, and you explain how its poverty=its problems. my understanding is they got an aging population, the new generations dont have the same purchasing power opportunities, their parents have. etc. They have face culture or what ever you wanna call uchisoto and honni.
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May 3, 2017 10:01
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Most of the orientalist stuff about honne and uchisoto you mention is a perfectly normal feature of pre-industrial, rural agrarian society. Which Japan was as little as a generation or two ago. It's not some unique inscrutable Asian thing, it's the same in pre-industrial rural villages everywhere Same goes for China and Korea icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 10:13 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 10:10
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My understanding regarding the rural stuff is this, the people who lived in the villages all knew eachother, hell they would take turns helping rebuild eachother's houses. They had to work to support the local lords and I had professor say there were even books for the lords on how to properly manage their serfs, that even made a point that working them to death would make you poorer. Alex Kerr made a point in his book that the people from this kinda back ground really had a kind streak to them, Life is loving hard and all we have to lesson the hard ship is eachothers kindness. Thus the rather giving and helpful nature people had. The whole face saving scamming thing is alot harder to pull off when we are all farmers living next to eachother and are most likely intermarried at some level. So how did adding wealth onto these people create problems?
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May 3, 2017 10:22
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Same way as the industrial revolution, I would believe. Large-scale farms prevent smaller village collectives from drawing their usual customers due to economies of scale, prompting social dissolution when the young pop off to the cities to make a working wage - the social dissolution in those villages coupled with the rapidly outpaced inequality (Some schmuck would strike it big and flaunt it, suddenly everyone in the community is trying to achieve the same thing) would probably cause enormous amounts of tension and unravel even the tightest-knit of communities. That's just off the top of my head and probably not very realistic, but I could see it happening.
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May 3, 2017 10:35
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Jimmy Little Balls posted:The urinals at my uni just have a really thin bendy tube cellotaped to them which are always falling off so even when you get it in the urinal it just goes onto the floor. in burma we have urinals with holes at the bottom where you're supposed to tape the tubes, except noone ever bothers taping the tubes so the piss just falls out of a hole in the bottom onto the slanted floor whereby it eventually runs into a circular hole in the wall
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May 3, 2017 10:36
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Oh and my last apartment, on the fourth floor, had three-inch long black worms that would crawl out of all the drainage pipes (and i THINK, but not sure) each night and make it halfway across the floor in the kitchen/my bedroom until the airco dried them out and they died. You'd find 4 dead shrivelled up, dried out black worms all over the floor each morning. Nothing could kill them at all - i tried tipping bleach, salt water, vinegar, draino, boiling water, everything down the drains but them worms kept on coming....
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May 3, 2017 10:40
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Ups_rail posted:My understanding regarding the rural stuff is this, the people who lived in the villages all knew eachother, hell they would take turns helping rebuild eachother's houses. They had to work to support the local lords and I had professor say there were even books for the lords on how to properly manage their serfs, that even made a point that working them to death would make you poorer. I'm saying the rural village life creates an insular mindset, and such a mindset still exists among old people and is still reflected in Japan's political and economic institutions, not because of anything uniquely Japanese or Asian, but simply because of the country's level of economic development in the not-too-distant past. That is the source of Japan's problems, and also many of China's icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 10:46 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 10:43
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Speaking of North Korea apologists, I found this lovely video by two Australian hipsters who spend about 20 minutes sticking it to silly Westerners caring about terrible poo poo done in one place in the world, when they really should be worrying about something else!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BO83Ig-E8E
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May 3, 2017 11:44
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hakimashou posted:The important thing is that writing a crazy anti China book would A) get him persona non grata'd so he'd never have to go back and B) make him a bunch of money from the Japanese. So win-win
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May 3, 2017 11:55
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Pack it up guys, looks like we're done here. Rapid economic development is the answer to everything, and certainly not something we've ever discussed before. Thread solved. Calling the honne/tatamae or shame/guilt dichotomies simplistic and not terribly useful on an academic level is totally new and not something that happens in every intro to to Asian studies class ever taught. Let us English fucked around with this message at 12:21 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 12:15
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hailthefish posted:On the other hand, being a deluded tankie makes you mod material these days, so they might do alright. The way this thread tends to talk about D&D they'd say Mao was 70% good 30% bad and catch a week's probation for it.
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May 3, 2017 12:26
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Let us English posted:Pack it up guys, looks like we're done here. Rapid economic development is the answer to everything, and certainly not something we've ever discussed before. Thread solved. Just fuckin lol that you rate this thread above intro to anything level
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May 3, 2017 12:48
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simplefish posted:Just fuckin lol that you rate this thread above intro to anything level The exhaustive rating system I painstakingly detailed in my not at all glib post doesn't lie.
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May 3, 2017 12:53
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Let us English posted:The exhaustive rating system I painstakingly detailed in my not at all glib post doesn't lie. well look ur not takin it seriously i get that so why respond in earnest? chill out dude and lower your expectations. weve been to dinner together, remember? its all cool. ur not wrong in ur criticism, i just think so little of the thread readership that it seems to me like ur still aiming high.and i get ur aloof tone as well but still no point in laying a smackdown if the kid is downs to begin with. lets all be chill and cool dudebros
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May 3, 2017 13:00
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I have now show Hidden Figures to two of my classes, and I'm shocked but very happy that they a) Did not make fun of black people during the screening and b) the girls in particularly seemed super engaged and really seemed to enjoy the movie. Usually anything cool I try to show these classes fall flat and the appearance of a single black person on-screen is often cause for mild tittering at best or crude jokes at worst.simplefish posted:well look ur not takin it seriously i get that so why respond in earnest? chill out dude and lower your expectations. weve been to dinner together, remember? its all cool. ur not wrong in ur criticism, i just think so little of the thread readership that it seems to me like ur still aiming high.and i get ur aloof tone as well but still no point in laying a smackdown if the kid is downs to begin with. lets all be chill and cool dudebros This post made me laugh. Sounds good.
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May 3, 2017 13:09
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It's dramatic that this angry intellectual posturing is now leaking into this GBS gem, a testament to the shittyness of the D&D China thread. Why are you dudes discussing Japan here btw? Can't we go back to the streetshitting, rudeness, incessant honking and digestive problems?
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May 3, 2017 13:11
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"People in this country act certain way because of a history of rapid economic development." -Okay "Rapid economic development affected the culture of this country." -Super racist, apparently
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May 3, 2017 13:28
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"People who interact a lot have formed a social group that functions like this in general but not always and everywhere" - okay statement to make, whether you mean Italians or South Italians or Investment Bankers or Multinational Nouveau Riche (you may need to vary your level of detail based on your own generality, e.g. DOGS do THIS, but HUMANS do THAT!) "...because of their parents' genes" = racist
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May 3, 2017 13:34
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I saw a lady pooping and smoking on the side of the road today. She was cool. Didn't give a gently caress about me or anyone else passing by. I really hope I can be that blasé about public pooping someday.
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May 3, 2017 13:37
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Pull up thread, pull up.
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May 3, 2017 13:48
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simplefish posted:"People who interact a lot have formed a social group that functions like this in general but not always and everywhere" - okay statement to make, whether you mean Italians or South Italians or Investment Bankers or Multinational Nouveau Riche (you may need to vary your level of detail based on your own generality, e.g. DOGS do THIS, but HUMANS do THAT!) no no no it's all ok unless you are coming from a socio-economic-political-racial-ideological position of power via oppression from the patriarchy, regardless of what you are individually. Then you're always a racist. Muh critical theory! Postmodernism saves the day ITT
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May 3, 2017 13:58
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Glenn Quebec posted:Pull up thread, pull up. poo poo I thought the fall out of your China experience forced you to stop posting, quit your job, and become Glenn Chicago or something. Any update on fixing the wrongs from that year long con-job?
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May 3, 2017 13:59
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"You guys can call me Ron Mexico from now on"
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May 3, 2017 14:03
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BexGu posted:poo poo I thought the fall out of your China experience forced you to stop posting, quit your job, and become Glenn Chicago or something. Any update on fixing the wrongs from that year long con-job? It's a sordid tale full of twists and turns and betrayels. It's the stuff that makes polite women clasp their ears and strong, 1950s men grimace. Really it's uninteresting. It's just full of lovely snipes and broken dead lines. I document things like it's prep for a subpoena, and make sure it's ironclad. We've had about three weekly team calls and sure as poo poo, they try and throw me under the bus over pretty petty poo poo. But this isn't like 4d chess style inception levels of fuckery. My 10 month old has more wile in him. Essentially this is every meeting: HK Counterpart: Glenn failed to deliver XYZ. *Smugly* Glenn: please see this email to show otherwise. Cue shrill, high pitched angry talking. I have no idea why any of them exist anymore. Evil you know vs. evil you don't? Anyway, I've taken a step back from it all since their work is garbage. My boss knows and I'm concentrating on my real job.
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May 3, 2017 14:26
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You should still pm us the office address so one of us can do something dumb. You want a pic of their front desk or something?
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May 3, 2017 15:11
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Let us English posted:I have now show Hidden Figures to two of my classes, and I'm shocked but very happy that they a) Did not make fun of black people during the screening and b) the girls in particularly seemed super engaged and really seemed to enjoy the movie. Usually anything cool I try to show these classes fall flat and the appearance of a single black person on-screen is often cause for mild tittering at best or crude jokes at worst. I noticed the same thing here in Taiwan. I brought up my surprise in my Chinese class, and the my teacher responded, "Yeah, they're black people, but they're also women." I suppose to women standing up to the sexist men and succeeding was enough to supersede their natural "black = bad" reflex.
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May 3, 2017 15:23
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Glenn Quebec posted:We've had about three weekly team calls and sure as poo poo, they try and throw me under the bus over pretty petty poo poo. But this isn't like 4d chess style inception levels of fuckery. My 10 month old has more wile in him. Essentially this is every meeting: Yeah this is the good part. Since nobody in China ever gets called on lies, they don't learn how to do it and everyone I've ever met here is a loving awful, super obvious liar. They never develop past the way a little kid lies because there's no need for it. On the culture thing I completely and passionately disagree with the point of view that it's not worth talking about but I dunno how Serious Business we want to be in a GBS mock thread.
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May 3, 2017 15:25
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chinas chances of achieving sentience by 2020 arent looking good, might need to reevaluate
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May 3, 2017 15:26
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