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yeah basically if you've ever used chome or failfox as your daily driver html being poo poo is entirely you're fault
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May 3, 2017 01:54
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MononcQc posted:It got to a workable state that was widely supported and made things fine, but the working group behind it started working a whole lot towards semantic web ideals while the HTML5 group started concurrently working on all kinds of video extensions and canvas elements and local storage and poo poo driven by google, bypassing the XHTML effort altogether rather than extending that. Lots of html5 was driven by apple: canvas for dashboard widgets, video for iPhone, resource manifests and other SPA poo poo for pre-app-store iPhone apps, etc. xhtml barely worked on ie6 which was still the #1 browser in 2007, and really who gives a poo poo if you use your existing forgiving HTML parser to parse a video or canvas tag instead of requiring that an html 5 document preclude most users from even seeing a gracefully degraded version requiring strict xhtml parsing is just spitefully excluding new developers
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May 3, 2017 02:09
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no it wasn't. it was excluding established bad developers who were scared by xml because they were and are retards
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May 3, 2017 02:12
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Cocoa Crispies posted:requiring strict xhtml parsing is just spitefully excluding new developers still waiting for someone to explain why it is a good thing that you can publish code to be executed on other people's computers without even having to meet a bar as low as "understands the concept of syntax" like by all means have an easy programming environment built into every computer that doesn't even do basic validation, but don't loving make that the basis of my banking interface
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May 3, 2017 02:15
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Luigi Thirty posted:well i got that far first actually create a number, atom, or string object (if you’re feeling brave) based on the tokens you read then make reading a list produce a linked list of pairs then create a dictionary (the environment) in which you only keep one copy of any particular atom you read, so reading (a a a) would get you a list all three of whose elements are references to the same a then prepopulate the environment with pointers to some hardcoded functions like car and cdr finally you can implement eval to just look up the function to call based on the first element in a list, look up the values for the arguments, call it with the arguments, and return back its result “special forms” like define, quote, cond are something you can implement inside your eval implementation since you need special evaluation rules for them (e.g. quote exists to avoid evaluating its argument) boom, you have a very basic Lisp also this person wrote a series of articles on bootstrapping a Scheme and there’s also a great paper called An Incremental Approach to Compiler Construction and a more in-depth tutorial that walk through writing a Scheme compiler for x86 in Scheme, including some of the more interesting stuff like closures and code generation eschaton fucked around with this message at 02:26 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 02:22
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it seems like html5 should've been "here's how we're all gonna agree to parse this old shameful syntax but we won't give it the new features" and xhtml could've been "here's a more sane syntax that also gets the new features" so if you want to canvas your videos you gotta learn xhtml but if you just want your lil webzone with headers and paragraphs you can go right ahead (im not remotely surprised it didn't turn out this way)
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May 3, 2017 02:28
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Shaggar posted:no it wasn't. it was excluding established bad developers who were scared by xml because they were and are terrible only minor modification is required to render some unironic shaggar agreement
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May 3, 2017 02:29
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Soricidus posted:still waiting for someone to explain why it is a good thing that you can publish code to be executed on other people's computers without even having to meet a bar as low as "understands the concept of syntax" because it's always been that way, and in the early days it made sense to just let someone that doesn't program much like an author or a CS professor or a physicist make a web page
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May 3, 2017 02:50
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Soricidus posted:still waiting for someone to explain why it is a good thing that you can publish code to be executed on other people's computers without even having to meet a bar as low as "understands the concept of syntax" html is code?
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May 3, 2017 03:15
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Shaggar posted:yeah basically if you've ever used chome or failfox as your daily driver html being poo poo is entirely you're fault Anyone who uses anything other than Lynx is a filthy degenerate who deserves to have their videos and images and Javascript burn in hell for all eternity.
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May 3, 2017 03:31
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Luigi Thirty posted:
shunting-yard algorithm?
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May 3, 2017 03:34
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OldAlias posted:shunting-yard algorithm? isn't that for infix notation? i want to write a simple scheme interpreter and that's RPN. eschaton posted:first actually create a number, atom, or string object (if you’re feeling brave) based on the tokens you read aha thanks I'll set up a GitHub and see if I can get somewhere with these papers
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May 3, 2017 04:04
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the best thing html5 ever did was free us from flash and silverlight
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May 3, 2017 04:04
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ultravoices posted:what horseshit is this he's not wrong, really. programmers aren't held to any kind of consistent professional standard so tons of businesses end up running on really shoddy work. i'm not saying things should be made artificially difficult, but i don't think the current state of things is really all that great either. i dunno, i don't actually have any ideas it'd just be nice to be able to walk into a job and expect to work with something reasonably professional instead of another shambling legacy horror.
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May 3, 2017 04:19
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ultravoices posted:what horseshit is this hello i'm your resident stack of 900mb of javascript dependancies written in 15 different dialects that young peter the almost-former homeless alcoholic has used for his personal blog on hardships of being unemployable hobo in post-soviet space
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May 3, 2017 08:35
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just yell at your coworkers until they conform to your required code standards
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May 3, 2017 08:54
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everything being hot garbage is not a result of low standards its the fact that poo poo keeps working anyway despite them ~market forces~ only care about working, its not asking how or why
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May 3, 2017 11:17
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I have two course options to choose from next semester in my masters program: Functional Programming with Java & Scala or Advanced JavaScript (working with frameworks) Much of my work has been oriented towards Enterprise Java applications(i.e. Spring). I haven't had the need or chance to really get into the nitty gritty with JS, but am completely inexperienced with functional programming. what do?
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May 3, 2017 13:59
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Scala
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May 3, 2017 14:03
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Pointsman posted:Scala
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May 3, 2017 14:15
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Scala for sure. You can still program java in it, you'll pick up the functional stuff as part of the course (and scala doesn't go nuts with that stuff anyway) Only do the js one if you really want to be a web developer (you do not want to be a web developer) Even if you never touch scala again the knowledge will apply to c#'s linq or java 8's streams easily enough
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May 3, 2017 14:19
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jony neuemonic posted:he's not wrong, really. programmers aren't held to any kind of consistent professional standard so tons of businesses end up running on really shoddy work. i'm not saying things should be made artificially difficult, but i don't think the current state of things is really all that great either. my objection was mostly to the 'but my figgies will be depressed if other people learn coding' part of the argument. any attempts at professional standards get co-opted immediately, you see this with the running treadmill of certifications.
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May 3, 2017 14:20
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ultravoices posted:my objection was mostly to the 'but my figgies will be depressed if other people learn coding' part of the argument. i used to think that way when i worked for a lovely company that looked to pay bargain basement prices for talent. now that i work for a place that's cool and good i've come to realize that talent in the industry is so stratified that the upper 30% (of which, i'm sure most folks in this thread fit by virtue of just thinking about programming) won't have to worry about more programmers affecting their compensation.
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May 3, 2017 14:53
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gonadic io posted:Scala for sure. You can still program java in it, you'll pick up the functional stuff as part of the course (and scala doesn't go nuts with that stuff anyway) thank you
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May 3, 2017 15:03
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nern posted:I have two course options to choose from next semester in my masters program: lmao what does a masters level class in "advanced" javascript even look like?
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May 3, 2017 15:30
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karms posted:everything being hot garbage is not a result of low standards its the fact that poo poo keeps working anyway despite them exactly this software doesn't care about "best practices"
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May 3, 2017 15:44
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Finster Dexter posted:lmao what does a masters level class in "advanced" javascript even look like?
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May 3, 2017 15:45
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Blinkz0rz posted:i used to think that way when i worked for a lovely company that looked to pay bargain basement prices for talent. now that i work for a place that's cool and good i've come to realize that talent in the industry is so stratified that the upper 30% (of which, i'm sure most folks in this thread fit by virtue of just thinking about programming) won't have to worry about more programmers affecting their compensation. i agree most of the dudes slinging bad rails and node poo poo around to cobble together websites and company portals and whatever learned their trade in one of those bootcamps or an online tutorial and there's a ceiling on what they can do without deeper understanding of the machine they're programming. i certainly feel like i became like 5 times the programmer i used to be after being forced to actually think about how the machine works while doing compiler and os stuff in university classes. before that i was a coder, after that i felt slightly closer to being an engineer.
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May 3, 2017 15:46
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nern posted:Advanced JavaScript (working with frameworks) i'm sceptical about this.
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May 3, 2017 15:46
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nern posted:I have two course options to choose from next semester in my masters program:
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May 3, 2017 16:00
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ultravoices posted:my objection was mostly to the 'but my figgies will be depressed if other people learn coding' part of the argument. poor ultravoices, thought about programmers stealing his figgies and died
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May 3, 2017 16:03
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:poor ultravoices, thought about programmers stealing his figgies and died i am so looking forward to being one of those figgies stealers.
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May 3, 2017 16:21
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ultravoices posted:my objection was mostly to the 'but my figgies will be depressed if other people learn coding' part of the argument. karms posted:everything being hot garbage is not a result of low standards its the fact that poo poo keeps working anyway despite them good points. when you can build a successful business on a dumpster fire, people are gonna.
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May 3, 2017 16:23
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cis autodrag posted:i agree most of the dudes slinging bad rails and node poo poo around to cobble together websites and company portals and whatever learned their trade in one of those bootcamps or an online tutorial and there's a ceiling on what they can do without deeper understanding of the machine they're programming. i certainly feel like i became like 5 times the programmer i used to be after being forced to actually think about how the machine works while doing compiler and os stuff in university classes. before that i was a coder, after that i felt slightly closer to being an engineer. You need real world experience and the schooling, really. I'm the opposite in that I went through a mostly math-oriented computer science degree. I mostly only programmed in a high level academic sense, and never really understood a lot about what really goes on in computers until I took a job that ultimately led to me having to learn to program 8-bit PIC microcontrollers in their limited assembly language and some VHDL. Before that the concept of registers and bus lines, etc was fairly foreign to me (you mean theres a... clock... making my code... run...  ). I still don't have a deep understanding of modern compilers etc but gently caress I'm glad I got into embedded stuff and don't have to deal too much with web and UI bullshit. The problem at this level though (in my experience) is that people are great at slinging bits around but tend not to be knowledgable about higher level algorithms - myself included, but I've recently been trying to improve that. nern posted:
N'thing the FP course over the JS course. The JS will probably be an easy A and you might get a good project or two out of it, but really 'using a framework' is something pretty much all devs will have to do and, if the framework is worth its salt, its docs will give you all the info you need. The FP course may actually warp the way you think about programming a little bit (in a good way), and you're not likely to experience it outside acedemia/self learning. Colonel Taint fucked around with this message at 16:29 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 16:26
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xhtml died because the standards bodies did absolutely nothing of note for long enough that a rogue working group (whatwg) managed to deliver substantial improvement behind their backs would it be great if html was more regular and easier to parse/validate? yes has anyone ever come close to delivering on an xml variant of html that is actually useable? gently caress no
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May 3, 2017 16:29
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ultravoices posted:i am so looking forward to being one of those figgies stealers. oh lol i quoted the wrong post. in other terrible programmer news a team just asked us to confirm some data they couldn't load because they're taking an XML document with N nodes and just assuming that a concatenation of all nodes (plus comma separators!) will be less than 20 chars because they store it as a separated string in a text field. if they get 21 chars+ it just crashes what the gently caress guys
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May 3, 2017 16:29
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:oh lol i quoted the wrong post. i figured, my terrible programmer status only up to 'can make it about halfway through a coding PUA site before getting stuck on something'.
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May 3, 2017 16:44
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ultravoices posted:coding PUA site you probably need to focus on negging *tips fedora*
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May 3, 2017 17:07
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nern posted:Advanced JavaScript (working with frameworks) every framework in this class will be obsolete before the class ends
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May 3, 2017 17:26
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:in other terrible programmer news a team just asked us to confirm some data they couldn't load because they're taking an XML document with N nodes and just assuming that a concatenation of all nodes (plus comma separators!) will be less than 20 chars because they store it as a separated string in a text field. if they get 21 chars+ it just crashes VARCHAR(20) is the default sql string type i believe i've gotten a lecture about how they couldn't increase the character limit on a text column because of some arbitrary categorization scheme the dba had in their head and the field was in a category where it couldn't be larger even though stuff being sent to it was going over the character limit
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May 3, 2017 17:30
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