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Who is the man?? This poll is closed. |
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| Goku |
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202 | 7.09% |
| Vegeta |
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279 | 9.79% |
| Krillin |
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208 | 7.30% |
| Piccolo or his nameks |
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212 | 7.44% |
| Gohan or Cool Gohan |
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135 | 4.74% |
| Yamcha |
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90 | 3.16% |
| Tien |
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120 | 4.21% |
| Muten Roshi |
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89 | 3.12% |
| Tao Pai Pai |
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71 | 2.49% |
| Frieza |
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69 | 2.42% |
| Cell or an android |
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86 | 3.02% |
| Buu |
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62 | 2.18% |
| Hercule "Mark" Satan |
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327 | 11.48% |
| Videl |
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90 | 3.16% |
| Bulma |
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104 | 3.65% |
| Yajirobe |
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99 | 3.47% |
| Ginyu or other Frieza squad guy |
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68 | 2.39% |
| King kai or another kai |
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53 | 1.86% |
| Chi-Chi |
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83 | 2.91% |
| Goten |
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43 | 1.51% |
| Trunks or Cool Trunks |
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112 | 3.93% |
| Bardock |
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48 | 1.68% |
| Other villain of DB,Z, or GT(please post about it!) |
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41 | 1.44% |
| Uub |
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42 | 1.47% |
| Oolong |
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90 | 3.16% |
| Zamasu |
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26 | 0.91% |
| Total: | 1326 votes | ||
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I've always been of the opinion that Goku is such a savant that he really is one of the only ones who could fully learn Kaioken, much less push it past its intended limit of x2. With the reference we have now in Super, it's more clear to see that U7 is a graveyard universe because its GoD and Kaioshin are useless, leaving mortals to do all the heavy lifting, forcing them to shake the Heavens just to avoid complete universal genocide. This started with Goku learning a handful of godtechs from King Kai, like the Kaioken, leading towards the disaster we have now of Super Sayan Blue PLUS that on top of it. Vegeta probably forgot it was even a tech after Namek and getting his skull caved in by it on Earth, and I wouldn't doubt he likely sees it as both something signature to ol' carrotbrains, and something he'd need the decades and desperation Goku had when first learning it to have any chance of mastering its use. Why bother leaping for a tech like that when you likely have plenty of your own improvement schemes? And hey, Vegeta is clearly not as much into it as he used to be with Bulla born. Maybe he just doesn't care and is happier to be stronger than Goku at his base than using some life-murder tech. On top of that, I don't think the Kaioken is actually a useful and complete technique - I think Goku is just SUCH a goddamned persistent and reckless loon that he alone could turn a stupidly dangerous and not useful tech (nearly kill you for x2 power) into something devastating. It's like he went for a build in a game centered around minmaxing super expensive and normally worthless skills, and then he decided "gently caress it I'll just take the cap off let's go x3 not like I ain't died before" and the rest is history.
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May 3, 2017 17:33
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 09:23 |
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Black August posted:On top of that, I don't think the Kaioken is actually a useful and complete technique - I think Goku is just SUCH a goddamned persistent and reckless loon that he alone could turn a stupidly dangerous and not useful tech (nearly kill you for x2 power) into something devastating. It's like he went for a build in a game centered around minmaxing super expensive and normally worthless skills, and then he decided "gently caress it I'll just take the cap off let's go x3 not like I ain't died before" and the rest is history.
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May 3, 2017 18:25
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Rutibex posted:Buu should be able to use Kaio-ken, he can use any technique he has seen once. Cell should have known it too, since Gero still had his drones flying around during his fight with Vegeta. You'd think he would have at least tried to Kaioken x1000 when Gohan was kicking his rear end, instead of going with copying Trunks's lovely bulk up move.
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May 3, 2017 18:28
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I'm not even sure what x2 is supposed to do. Isn't regular Kaioken already a x2?
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May 3, 2017 18:28
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That's a discrepancy that's existed forever apparently
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May 3, 2017 18:29
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"Vegeta seeing Kaioken as unique to Goku" is a way more plausible reason for him to not want to learn and use the Kaioken than "Vegeta can't figure it out"(Vegeta figured out how to go Super Saiyan on his own and then figured out how to go Super Saiyan Blue without the aid of the ritual that's supposed to make SSG even possible, he's pretty bright) or "The technique is too dangerous"(Vegeta has literally killed himself to try to win a fight at least once before, he's not big on self preservation when the chips are down and he needs to win a fight).
Kanos fucked around with this message at 18:33 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 18:30
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Kanos posted:(Vegeta has literally killed himself to try to win a fight at least once before, he's not big on self preservation when the chips are down and he needs to win a fight). That was true. But now he has two kids he wants to raise. It's why I said some posts ago I think Vegeta would be surprised how much he's changed, and happy for it, whereas there's horror as he looks over to see Goku and he hasn't changed since the day they met
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May 3, 2017 18:36
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yea vegeta probably views the kaioken in the same way he does stuff like the kamehameha regardless of whatever the real reason might be, kaioken and ss3 are the only unique moves goku has left at this point and ss3 hasn't won a fight even once in the entire series
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May 3, 2017 18:37
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Vegeta doesn't want to use kaioken because he'd rather surpass it in raw power without relying on a skill to get by. He won't, but that's pretty much how everything works for him
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May 3, 2017 18:39
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Manatee Cannon posted:yea vegeta probably views the kaioken in the same way he does stuff like the kamehameha That's not true, SSJ3 Buutenks kicked Gohan's rear end
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May 3, 2017 18:39
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Manatee Cannon posted:regardless of whatever the real reason might be, kaioken and ss3 are the only unique moves goku has left at this point and ss3 hasn't won a fight even once in the entire series SSj3 always struck me as overclocking your computer to the point it has about a minute before it blows its top and bursts into flame - and realistically, all that power in that small a time frame just isn't enough against any opponent with any sense or skill to just let the form wear the Saiyan the hell out. It felt like Goku was just trying to push SS as far as he could for the heck of it and found out it's a dead end by stage 3.
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May 3, 2017 18:41
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Black August posted:SSj3 always struck me as overclocking your computer to the point it has about a minute before it blows its top and bursts into flame - and realistically, all that power in that small a time frame just isn't enough against any opponent with any sense or skill to just let the form wear the Saiyan the hell out. It felt like Goku was just trying to push SS as far as he could for the heck of it and found out it's a dead end by stage 3. Goku even pretty much said that. It's only used when he wants to delay Buu or insanely desperate. Gotenks uses it because Gotenks is an idiot.
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May 3, 2017 18:44
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Aurora posted:That's not true, SSJ3 Buutenks kicked Gohan's rear end that doesn't count c'mon now
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May 3, 2017 18:50
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ImpAtom posted:Goku even pretty much said that. It's only used when he wants to delay Buu or insanely desperate. Gotenks uses it because Gotenks is an idiot. He also said he could have beat Buu if he tried so either Goku is unreliable completely or everything he says is correct.
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May 3, 2017 18:51
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Well Goku specifically said that SSJ3 is impossible to use if you're alive. If you're dead it doesn't matter! So really Goku is just a massive fuckup no matter what, as Super has gone to great lengths to tell us
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May 3, 2017 18:53
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CharlestheHammer posted:He also said he could have beat Buu if he tried so either Goku is unreliable completely or everything he says is correct. He also didn't know how much of a pain in the rear end it actually was to kill Buu. Kid Buu was weaker than Fat Buu and he still couldn't seal the deal in SSJ3.
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May 3, 2017 18:53
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CharlestheHammer posted:He also said he could have beat Buu if he tried so either Goku is unreliable completely or everything he says is correct. *probably* and that was due to him only seeing Majiin Buu literally just take all of his attacks while saying "oooooh!", never powering up at all, and doing a kamehameha because he saw Goku do it. Next time Goku fights him, he gets rung out because he has no idea what Buu can or will do when he bothers.
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May 3, 2017 18:54
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multijoe posted:He also didn't know how much of a pain in the rear end it actually was to kill Buu. Kid Buu was weaker than Fat Buu and he still couldn't seal the deal in SSJ3. kid buu was when he said he could have beaten him if he'd tried but he hosed around for a while to give vegeta a turn because goku's an idiot
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May 3, 2017 18:55
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Manatee Cannon posted:kid buu was when he said he could have beaten him if he'd tried but he hosed around for a while to give vegeta a turn because goku's an idiot No he said he thought he could beat Kid Buu because he thinks he could have beaten Fat Buu, but wanted to give the kids a turn. Then he loses and starts running of stamina and pretty much was like "Oh wow this is way more exhausting and harder then I thought." so Vegeta had to distract him while they came up with a plan to win.
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May 3, 2017 19:15
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you're getting things mixed up he tells piccolo that he could have beaten fat buu but didn't because he's dead and he shouldn't be fixing everyone's problems anymore (then gotenks and gohan gently caress it up and he has to do it anyway). later, against kid buu, he tells vegeta that he ran out of power loving around so that vegeta could have a turn. that's why he spends a bunch of time trying and failing to power back up before they come up with the spirit bomb e: tho maybe I'm getting things mixed up and that last part is anime filler or something. the more I think about it, the less sure I am that I'm right Manatee Cannon fucked around with this message at 19:24 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 19:21
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Manatee Cannon posted:but didn't because he's dead and he shouldn't be fixing everyone's problems anymore And this is exactly where the timeline split, where he should have stayed dead and let everyone else step up, instead they dragged him right back to the living world and now Beerus and Shin gotta goddamn live with the consequences
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May 3, 2017 19:23
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Black August posted:And this is exactly where the timeline split, where he should have stayed dead and let everyone else step up, instead they dragged him right back to the living world and now Beerus and Shin gotta goddamn live with the consequences Considering in the other timeline every single person in existence is actually dead instead of just threatened with death...
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May 3, 2017 19:27
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ImpAtom posted:Considering in the other timeline every single person in existence is actually dead instead of just threatened with death... Still Beerus and Shin's fault, we saw those rings we got one timeline erased so far DO I HEAR FOUR?
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May 3, 2017 19:29
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Black August posted:And this is exactly where the timeline split, where he should have stayed dead and let everyone else step up, instead they dragged him right back to the living world and now Beerus and Shin gotta goddamn live with the consequences He tried to let them step up and handle it and they failed utterly.
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May 3, 2017 19:33
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Manatee Cannon posted:you're getting things mixed up Him powering up to try to beat him is in the manga
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May 3, 2017 19:35
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multijoe posted:He also didn't know how much of a pain in the rear end it actually was to kill Buu. Kid Buu was weaker than Fat Buu and he still couldn't seal the deal in SSJ3. Be a cause he couldn't maintain the form and spent to much time bullshitting.
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May 3, 2017 19:37
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Kelp Plankton posted:Vegeta doesn't want to use kaioken because he'd rather surpass it in raw power without relying on a skill to get by. Vegeta surpassed kaioken when he learned to go Super Saiyan.
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May 3, 2017 20:45
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If this were a card battle manga, SSJ3 would be "cast everything in your hand, but pitch your deck into the graveyard." Power at any cost!
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May 3, 2017 23:16
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Wouldn't have pegged Goku as running a Necropotence deck, but it makes a certain amount of sense. Dude's real acquainted with death at this point.
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May 4, 2017 00:19
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SSJ3 is the Canyonero of powerups
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May 4, 2017 00:23
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Kanos posted:He tried to let them step up and handle it and they failed utterly.
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May 4, 2017 00:28
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ImpAtom posted:I'm not even sure what x2 is supposed to do. Isn't regular Kaioken already a x2?
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May 4, 2017 00:40
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I think another secret to their amazing ascension over the decades is the fact that Earth has one Z-rank natural resource on hand - the goddamn Dragon Balls, which are shards of the Namek Dragon Balls, which are basically poop pebbles from the surface of the Super Dragon Balls they used their dragon slugman sorcery to chip out when nobody was looking, which only U6 and U7 share, and presumably U6 doesn't even HAVE their own lesser Dragon Balls (or maybe they do, with more now that Earth was restored, and this becomes a trump card). Point of which is, Goku and many others have come back to life. A lot. Without resurrection, Goku would have never been able to learn a technique only known by a God of the afterlife, or defeat Frieza, and etc etc etc they've all done. They've basically been their crutches to mantle god tasks, and it's left Goku a monster from zenkais powered by death, Saiyan transformations, time travel creating nightmare scenarios, forbidden techniques pushed a hundred ranks past their expected output, cross pollination of the most powerful forces in the history of their nightmare universe, its every deity and god on speed dial. So you ask why is nobody pointing a gun at every Namekian for being responsible for this ultimately oh wait no that's right it's because Beerus had a loving JOB HE DIDN'T DO
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May 4, 2017 00:54
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Also Whis is an enabler.
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May 4, 2017 01:02
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Pureauthor posted:Also Whis is an enabler. I'd say he's just doing his job by only judging and preventing instant universe-enders, but I'm also getting an itchy feeling he's become just fallen enough from earthly delights that he might side with them in some crisis.
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May 4, 2017 01:10
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Black August posted:I think another secret to their amazing ascension over the decades is the fact that Earth has one Z-rank natural resource on hand - the goddamn Dragon Balls, which are shards of the Namek Dragon Balls, which are basically poop pebbles from the surface of the Super Dragon Balls they used their dragon slugman sorcery to chip out when nobody was looking, which only U6 and U7 share, and presumably U6 doesn't even HAVE their own lesser Dragon Balls (or maybe they do, with more now that Earth was restored, and this becomes a trump card). Thats why the show is called Dragonball dummy
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May 4, 2017 01:17
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Rutibex posted:Thats why the show is called Dragonball dummy Yes but now you know the extent and the size of the stones at stake, you truly have beheld the dragon's driggins, and know what havoc they have wrought
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May 4, 2017 01:19
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Whis joining up with the ningen because of his love of food is an acceptable character motivation
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May 4, 2017 01:37
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Whis will stand up to his dad when the poo poo hits the fan and will defend the filthy ningen because they invented ramen.
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May 4, 2017 01:44
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 09:23 |
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Funky Valentine posted:Whis will stand up to his dad when the poo poo hits the fan and will defend the filthy ningen because they invented ramen. this and in the culture of angels it is also literally an acceptable motivation
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May 4, 2017 01:45
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