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3.0 is going to have tons and tons of changes, I wouldn't start worrying about skills or builds until we have the complete list of everything that is changing.
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May 3, 2017 13:35
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lamentable dustman posted:Pretty sure ED DoT, poison (if using the poison dagger) and decay all scaled with projectile damage but could be wrong. Never played it myself, was just screwing around with it in PoB last week. Yeah that's true, but the amount of proj damage you'd get in a normal ED build ain't that much compared to the chaos/dot you get which will still scale the poison/decay. The bigger hit is that spell damage will no longer scale the poison/decay but it hopefully won't kill the build if the compensating damage buff is significant.
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May 3, 2017 13:46
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The double dipping thing is by far the most important balance change I can think of. One of the points they made in part 1 of that post is that getting rid of these mechanics allows them way more freedom to design uniques and skills that interact with specific damage types that were impossible because anything that was fun/interesting on its own became extremely overpowered for double dipping. It was also killing build diversity because any idiot could equip added chaos damage, a source of poison, and some damage nodes from the right side of the tree to end up with a build that steamrolled most content.
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May 3, 2017 14:07
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YoungSexualNorton posted:any idiot could equip added chaos damage, a source of poison, and some damage nodes from the right side of the tree to end up with a build that steamrolled most content. 
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May 3, 2017 15:29
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MMF Freeway posted:Yeah that's true, but the amount of proj damage you'd get in a normal ED build ain't that much compared to the chaos/dot you get which will still scale the poison/decay. The bigger hit is that spell damage will no longer scale the poison/decay but it hopefully won't kill the build if the compensating damage buff is significant. Only more mods that will apply to Decay are Void Manipulation and Rapid Decay (and berserker). High end ED builds are gonna be dead.
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May 3, 2017 21:35
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Ornedan posted:Only more mods that will apply to Decay are Void Manipulation and Rapid Decay (and berserker). High end ED builds are gonna be dead. Fortunately, we have no actual idea how things are going to shake out because we don't know what they are doing to add in more damage for DoT builds. They specifically call out essence drain as being affected and therefore getting a damage boost, so they at least know about it. Right now Decay is an extra 50-100% damage for like 30c, and I could see that being on the chopping block.
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May 3, 2017 22:04
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i spaced out hard reading this new DOT change post. they really didn't need to over complicate it this much. they could have only allowed ignite to be scaled by fire & burn damage, bleed by physical and bleed damage and poison by chaos and poison, plus normal generic damage over time and any skill specific poo poo like essence drain. then just poo poo the passive tree up with new bleed/poison/ignite nodes, maybe some hybrid ones and rebalance the numbers as needed.
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May 3, 2017 22:18
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They're probably future proofing for new skills/keystones/items. They probably never intended for Decay to be so stupidly good and other things.
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May 3, 2017 22:26
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YoungSexualNorton posted:It was also killing build diversity because any idiot could equip added chaos damage, a source of poison, and some damage nodes from the right side of the tree to end up with a build that steamrolled most content. I know that it severely reduced build diversity, but i hope that they buff other builds to compensate. If there are only 10 builds capable of doing shaper, and 8 of them are double dipping, removing those builds doesn't suddenly mean more builds are capable of doing shaper, it just means there are only 2 end game builds.
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May 3, 2017 22:28
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Cadiro had an Astramentis for me today, marking the first time he's ever sold me anything useful /profitable. Thought you guys should know.
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May 3, 2017 22:30
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Cadiro sells me PLENTY of stuff worth ~5c for about 1c worth of coins, not sure what the problem is! I mean he's never sold me anything more valuable than an Agnerod (a while back when they were ~30c) but hey.
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May 3, 2017 22:31
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Lechtansi posted:I know that it severely reduced build diversity, but i hope that they buff other builds to compensate. If there are only 10 builds capable of doing shaper, and 8 of them are double dipping, removing those builds doesn't suddenly mean more builds are capable of doing shaper, it just means there are only 2 end game builds. There are a lot of non-double dipping builds that can do shaper now, there just aren't many that make it braindead simple by carrying the dps to instantly clear each phase. I'm ok with very few if any builds being able to trivialize endgame boss mechanics. It's always been weird to me that the definition of "capable of killing X" actually means "capable of killing X so fast that none of the fight mechanics come into play." That aside, the change paves the way to a reduction in boss hp now that they don't have to try to level the playing field with double dipping in mind. And they've directly stated that it's letting them get rid of outright immunities on a lot of bosses. YoungSexualNorton fucked around with this message at 23:06 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 22:53
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There are always unexplored ways to do endgame content. There are so many skills/items in this game, sometimes people just forget about them. Mathil just did uber atziri with freezing pulse. Void battery was like 50c last week, now its like 130c (and this is late in a league). This happens from time to time with other rarer uniques that aren't 'meta.' I did uber week 1 with a phys/hatred cyclone build this league. Endgame will still be infinitely doable, it will just take some gearing/time.
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May 3, 2017 23:41
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YoungSexualNorton posted:There are a lot of non-double dipping builds that can do shaper now, there just aren't many that make it braindead simple by carrying the dps to instantly clear each phase. I'm ok with very few if any builds being able to trivialize endgame boss mechanics. It's always been weird to me that the definition of "capable of killing X" actually means "capable of killing X so fast that none of the fight mechanics come into play." eh, its an action RPG. all diversity slowly coalesces into the builds that can do the content the easiest. I'm actually incredibly happy with the diversity in POE - its not like diablo 3 where theres literally 2 top end builds. Also, since there is a final boss for the endgame, there isn't any point in getting more DPS than you need for shaper.
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May 4, 2017 00:59
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I don't think that's what every single person is looking for, though I agree that a lot do seem to want the most straightforward right click -> make items appear setup possible. To me, that's what shaped strands are for. If all you want is to play an effort free loot slot machine over and over again, you run shaped strands ad nauseum. The end game bosses should be there as an alternative way to get cool stuff for people who want more of a challenge and play a more well rounded build. Even if we assume the end goal is "do content the easiest," that doesn't devolve into a dps race if it's simply not possible to get enough dps to insta-kill everything. If no matter how big your dps is, you know you're going to have to eat or dodge some damage, move around, etc, the best/easiest build could be something a lot more interesting and well rounded than a dps monster.
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May 4, 2017 01:23
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Lechtansi posted:eh, its an action RPG. all diversity slowly coalesces into the builds that can do the content the easiest. I'm actually incredibly happy with the diversity in POE - its not like diablo 3 where theres literally 2 top end builds. Also, since there is a final boss for the endgame, there isn't any point in getting more DPS than you need for shaper. Yeah Diablo 3 lost me when the meta became 1 dps dealer and everyone else was support. That was several seasons ago but I have felt no need to go back and check if that is still the case.
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May 4, 2017 02:28
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Actually I'm pretty more builds that don't use any kind of double dipping trivialize endgame bosses than ones that do. The thing that actually trivializes Shaper is instant leech with massive damage output, and DoTs don't leech. The fastest/most braindead Shaper kills are builds like HoWA, Phys to Lightning + Signal Fire Barrage, Ele Barrage Wander, Lead Sprinkler Molten Strike, that Frost Blades build that was hitting over a million DPS, etc. Basically anything that scales a massive amount of elemental damage and stacks penetration, and also hits very fast for a lot of damage.
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May 4, 2017 02:51
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Ultima66 posted:Actually I'm pretty more builds that don't use any kind of double dipping trivialize endgame bosses than ones that do. The thing that actually trivializes Shaper is instant leech with massive damage output, and DoTs don't leech. The fastest/most braindead Shaper kills are builds like HoWA, Phys to Lightning + Signal Fire Barrage, Ele Barrage Wander, Lead Sprinkler Molten Strike, that Frost Blades build that was hitting over a million DPS, etc. Poison based double dipping is penalized hard by endgame boss resists. Your zillions of dps drop like a rock with the huge less curse effect, less duration, and chaos resists.
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May 4, 2017 02:58
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i can still taste him posted:Cadiro had an Astramentis for me today, marking the first time he's ever sold me anything useful /profitable. Thought you guys should know. Same here, a4n astramentis for 4.8k, about 28c worth of coins. Best thing i've ever gotten from him
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May 4, 2017 03:24
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DoT FAQ. Read it your own drat selves, I ain't summarizing that poo poo.
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May 4, 2017 04:37
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Lechtansi posted:eh, its an action RPG. all diversity slowly coalesces into the builds that can do the content the easiest. I'm actually incredibly happy with the diversity in POE - its not like diablo 3 where theres literally 2 top end builds. Also, since there is a final boss for the endgame, there isn't any point in getting more DPS than you need for shaper. It's funny people are forgetting the true End Boss: Hall of the Grandmasters and trust me, to reliably clear that you can only run one build: EA (unless you got mirrored gear obv, but I don't count those as builds)
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May 4, 2017 06:56
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Eh, SR CwC WI seems to do grandmasters just fine.
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May 4, 2017 08:19
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Yeah WI does it fine, I have a dual void battery arc char that can clear it without to much of a problem. (die once in a while)
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May 4, 2017 15:13
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My Doomfletch character from 2.5 could run it just fine too. I won't argue that it's not really lovely for build diversity though, because Chaos builds can never clear HoGM and any build that actually relies on reserving down to under 10% life can never run it. Also, any build that doesn't use DoT effects and hits for less than X amount per individual hit, where X is however much you need to get past the Aegis guys, can never clear it. There might also be some guys that are effectively physical immune because of Immortal Call abuse, but I don't really know and it doesn't really matter because all those builds tend to do primarily chaos damage from poison right now anyways, and chaos can never get past the CI Aegis Aurora guys.
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May 4, 2017 22:26
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I have no idea how they're going to manage to rebalance RF's burning effect. Or maybe when they fix the ES-Life imbalance it'll balance itself with the new DoT changes?
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May 4, 2017 22:42
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McFrugal posted:I have no idea how they're going to manage to rebalance RF's burning effect. Or maybe when they fix the ES-Life imbalance it'll balance itself with the new DoT changes? How will Righteous Fire be affected by these changes? Righteous Fire's Damage over Time never took its base damage from a hit (Righteous Fire is not Ignite), so it could never double-dip, and will not be affected by the changes. However, it will now be scaled by any new modifiers to Damage over Time that are added alongside these mechanical changes (but not modifiers that are specific to Ignite Damage). It will be rebalanced to account for these improvements in support available for the skill. Edit: Sorry, I didn't mean to be a dick I just misunderstood the question I think. Probably it will do less base damage since more support gems will improve it? Wezlar fucked around with this message at 22:51 on May 4, 2017 |
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May 4, 2017 22:43
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I imagine they're just gonna reduce the percentage of life/es that enemies burn for or something like that, to account for the availability of more passives/supports that can improve the damage. Might create some alternatives to kaom's heart if there are enough good supports for RF to fill out a 6link.
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May 4, 2017 22:48
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Can anyone tell me what DPS is reasonable with HoWA for speedrunning Shaper/T16 content? Tooltip or PoB DPS, whatever. I'm currently sitting at around 60k tooltip with Frenzy charges and no other buffs, PoB says aroudn 130k real DPS and up to around 400-500k with Slower Proj and Point Blank and Shock taken into account, which doesn't really feel like anything special considering people have actively competed for fastest possible Shaper Kill times with HoWA.
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May 4, 2017 23:39
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Ultima66 posted:Can anyone tell me what DPS is reasonable with HoWA for speedrunning Shaper/T16 content? Tooltip or PoB DPS, whatever. I'm currently sitting at around 60k tooltip with Frenzy charges and no other buffs, PoB says aroudn 130k real DPS and up to around 400-500k with Slower Proj and Point Blank and Shock taken into account, which doesn't really feel like anything special considering people have actively competed for fastest possible Shaper Kill times with HoWA. Well you are sitting pretty nice compared to me. No where near that amount of DPS. With SP tooltip says around 28k dps. I have really bad gear though.
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May 4, 2017 23:42
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBO68bRfnL0
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May 5, 2017 03:27
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Ultima66 posted:Can anyone tell me what DPS is reasonable with HoWA for speedrunning Shaper/T16 content? Tooltip or PoB DPS, whatever. I'm currently sitting at around 60k tooltip with Frenzy charges and no other buffs, PoB says aroudn 130k real DPS and up to around 400-500k with Slower Proj and Point Blank and Shock taken into account, which doesn't really feel like anything special considering people have actively competed for fastest possible Shaper Kill times with HoWA. I'm curious about this as well. Just to illustrate how powerful poison/chaos is right now, my BV occultist with obliteration (1c) and pretty bog standard ES gear(some of it is pretty decent, sit around 12k) and path of building has full poison dps listed at 1.2 million.
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May 5, 2017 04:00
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Bob NewSCART posted:I'm curious about this as well. Just to illustrate how powerful poison/chaos is right now, my BV occultist with obliteration (1c) and pretty bog standard ES gear(some of it is pretty decent, sit around 12k) and path of building has full poison dps listed at 1.2 million. Is that regular dps or with shaper resists?
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May 5, 2017 04:11
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Bob NewSCART posted:I'm curious about this as well. Just to illustrate how powerful poison/chaos is right now, my BV occultist with obliteration (1c) and pretty bog standard ES gear(some of it is pretty decent, sit around 12k) and path of building has full poison dps listed at 1.2 million. Well I spent a lot of currency and more or less fully minmaxed my character and now PoB has me at 500k DPS with Slower Proj on Shaper: https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/Ultima66/characters?characterName=ComplicatedShower Obviously still need to level for more damage, and I have no quality on my gems, but I don't really see getting to 1 million with this build.
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May 5, 2017 09:40
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When is 3.0 again? june-ish?
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May 5, 2017 09:46
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:When is 3.0 again? june-ish? Late May/Early June: The Fall of Oriath Beta begins. Approximately July 2017: The Fall of Oriath full release.
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May 5, 2017 09:46
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Agh, was hoping for a june release. thanks
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May 5, 2017 09:48
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Yeah, it got pushed back sadly.
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May 5, 2017 09:50
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more time for us casuals to get the last few cheevos for 36 (without buying them)
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May 5, 2017 10:42
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Goa Tse-tung posted:more time for us casuals to get the last few cheevos for 36 (without buying them) League is still ending on the 30th according to GGG posts
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May 5, 2017 10:55
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Jusupov posted:League is still ending on the 30th according to GGG posts rip
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May 5, 2017 15:45
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