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Sagebrush posted:Well, we assume he got someone's information from the address book, because that's what's in an address book usually. But Mike just said "it was in his address book," so it could also have been anything else just tucked inside (e.g. the address to the secret storage unit where Chuck has a tape duplicating machine and ten thousand copies of the tape!) There's a very good chance it's her contact info, but something bugs me about that. I don't think Jimmy would have to resort to Secret Agent Mike to get that info. I think he could track her down by completely legitimate means. (But then again, if he already has Mike in the house snapping photos, why not have him take a look for that too?)
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May 5, 2017 04:29
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Jerusalem posted:I freely admit I haven't got a clue how the bar works, especially their disciplinary stuff, but do they really not take mitigating circumstances into account? Provocation like that generally isn't even enough for actual criminal proceedings. You don't tend to get a pass on illegal actions unless someone is pretty much threatening to off you, and even then not always. I'm a little flummoxed on the tape honestly, I don't think Jimmy is going to try and steal it considering how badly the direct approach has worked out so far. Also, wasn't Jimmy and Kim's plan to not do the Bar hearing/confession thing and take it to trial? I remember hearing Jimmy say they were gonna "shove [that] up Chuck's rear end." also gently caress Chuck that guy sucks
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May 5, 2017 04:38
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I think they realized that if it went to trial, Jimmy might have lost which means he could end up in jail as well as losing his license to practice law. Going this way, Jimmy just has to keep his nose clean as far as the law is concerned. It may be tricky for him, but it is doable. I think they are going to work the angle that Chuck is off his rocker (which he is) and Jimmy was only trying to protect him. I don't know what all the bar hearing will be looking for, but it could be possible. Chuck messes up the Mesa Verde thing and goes off the deep end. Jimmy sees his brother going nuts and says whatever he can to calm Chuck down. Turns out Chuck recorded it and it also turns out that Chuck set up a whole series of events to trick Jimmy into breaking in and committing a crime. He admits to Kim that it was the duplicate all along, proving he planned on Jimmy trying to steal it. Ernesto was set up to hear a very specific part of the tape and then was brow beaten to not tell anyone about him hearing Jimmy on the tape. Jimmy goes over to Chuck's house because he's worried about Chuck's mental state as well as worried about Chuck trying to use the tape of Jimmy "lying" to him against Jimmy and it turns out there's a few people there specifically to witness Jimmy falling into the trap Chuck set. Jimmy could try to argue that when he tried to calm Chuck down, it ended up sending Chuck down another path towards mental illness and Jimmy was just trying to stop that as well. It all boils down to Chuck being mentally incompetent and Jimmy is just trying to protect him. I don't know if it would even work, but that's where I think it is going.
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May 5, 2017 05:09
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Jerusalem posted:My dad just recently started watching and absolutely fell in love with the show, and he was furious when he got to the end of season 2 because he didn't realize there would be a season 3 and was pissed about the cliffhanger J-Ru Dad: a good dad. And yeah I'm almost certainly misremembering what Rebecca's deal is, maybe they were talking about another character on the insider podcast or something. Sorry for any confusion there.
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May 5, 2017 05:18
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-Blackadder- posted:I saw someone mention that it seems like the the show runners are regretting naming the show after Saul. I don't know if that's technically true, but the show is definitely moving beyond Saul, in the direction of becoming a Breaking Bad prequel. I've also seen some people say they hope/think the show will refocus on Saul, however I doubt this will happen. Once Mike is doing regular work for Gus and Hector is in a wheelchair there isn't really anything more that needs to happen for Mike/Gus to be in position for the Breaking Bad years. Jimmy, on the other hand, has a long way to go to become Saul Goodman full-time, assuming that the persona he presented in Breaking Bad was how he actually thinks and behaves and not just his business face. I'm sure they'll find plenty for everyone to do in the meantime but I'm willing to bet Jimmy has got some serious poo poo to go through yet.
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May 5, 2017 05:26
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Chadzok posted:Once Mike is doing regular work for Gus and Hector is in a wheelchair there isn't really anything more that needs to happen for Mike/Gus to be in position for the Breaking Bad years. Jimmy, on the other hand, has a long way to go to become Saul Goodman full-time, assuming that the persona he presented in Breaking Bad was how he actually thinks and behaves and not just his business face. I'm sure they'll find plenty for everyone to do in the meantime but I'm willing to bet Jimmy has got some serious poo poo to go through yet. Like Kim dying Jerusalem posted:I freely admit I haven't got a clue how the bar works, especially their disciplinary stuff, but do they really not take mitigating circumstances into account? IANAL but I think they'd take the view if something wasn't serious enough to be a felony that'd be encoded into the law The may take mitigating factors like Jimmy's remorse, successful completion of probation, lack of a criminal record, and lack of any formal ethics proceedings prior into account but "ladies and gentlemen I wouldn't have broken the law if my brother hadn't made me so angry with his irrational, antisocial behavior" probably wouldn't hold water. (Keep in mind Jimmy has been a PD in the past and may be a PD in the future- PDs often encounter unreasonable people.)
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May 5, 2017 05:29
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Yeah IAAL and a disciplinary hearing at the state Bar is not going to bother looking at mitigating circumstances or complicated causality for something like this. They're pretty much just looking for proof that a given practitioner is unfit to practice, which varies slightly state to state, but doesn't really support prolonged or very nuanced proceeding like an actual trail would & is open-and-shut for Jimmy given his actions, witness statements, and the confession. At best, introducing all of this evidence would maybe get Chuck disbarred as well, and also possibly Kim if one of her many covers for Jimmy's previous ethics violations is found out or inferred through the introduced evidence. Plus, more practically, I just really don't see the show dipping into hardcore argument given that it mostly avoids that and pares legal proceedings down to the juicy bits.
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May 5, 2017 05:45
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I think it is entirely possible that the bar is forced to revoke Chuck's license after his condition is chronicled in the hearing (Perhaps accompanied by one of Chuck's freak outs)
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May 5, 2017 05:53
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The B&E is a molecule compared to the forgery. $320 in damages vs. directly costing HHM hundreds of thousands if not millions over a period of years as well as whatever it costs Mesa Verde to unfuck what he hosed with that switcheroo. That's what I suspect the hearing will really wind up being about. Real lawyers: Is any felony an automatic disbarment or is there any room for context/fitness to practice? I feel like once the true extent of chuck's manipulation is on the record it's at least believable that they give Jimmy a stern talking to but let him stay in the business. My favorite part is that if he hadn't forged the documents he did, Jimmy would've still said exactly what he did to calm Chuck's freakout, because he does actually care about his brother. Or did until now.
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May 5, 2017 06:05
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Chadzok posted:Once Mike is doing regular work for Gus and Hector is in a wheelchair there isn't really anything more that needs to happen for Mike/Gus to be in position for the Breaking Bad years. Mike's relationship with gus was more than just regular work, though. Mike was Gus's right hand, he oversaw large parts of the operation, and based on what we've gotten from BCS so far he surpassed quite a few guys Gus already has on payroll to get to that point. I think there's enough meat left in Mike's storyline that it will be able to match pace with Jimmy's.
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May 5, 2017 06:43
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^^^ Yeah, I think that goes without saying. They could stretch Mike and Gus' story lines out for as long as they want. As long as they can keep coming up with interesting cartel poo poo for Mike and Gus to do, it'll never get boring.
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May 5, 2017 07:33
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Lost Season posted:Mike's relationship with gus was more than just regular work, though. Mike was Gus's right hand, he oversaw large parts of the operation, and based on what we've gotten from BCS so far he surpassed quite a few guys Gus already has on payroll to get to that point. I think there's enough meat left in Mike's storyline that it will be able to match pace with Jimmy's. I'm personally really glad BCS is as much Mike's story as Saul's. Two of the best characters from the original series and they're always awesome to watch. Hell I'd watch an 80s cop drama with young Mike if they found the right actor. They could call it Don't Mess With Mike. maskenfreiheit posted:Like Kim dying I don't why people keep thinking Kim is dead in the future. It's really dumb. It's likely they broke up, but for all we know, they could still be in touch. Same with Chuck really. Do you really think Saul would tell Walter loving White about his associates, friends and family outside of work? I mean that worked out real well for Jesse. Jesus Christ. The only reason it's obvious they are not likely together is because.. well, she and Saul are on way different trajectories. Seriously, Saul never ever came off like a man with a haunted past. Not one Goddamn time. I'm not saying they're not dead, but this assumption of "if we don't see them, they're dead" is silly. Hell BCS could run a season during BB and just show what else Saul is doing and it'd be interesting. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 07:54 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 07:48
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There's no way in hell Kim is still on speaking terms with Jimmy in BB. She might be slipping a little now but no way would she tolerate the level of poo poo Saul gets up to. Come on. Plus Jimmy needs to lose her to fully break bad
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May 5, 2017 07:54
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Javid posted:The B&E is a molecule compared to the forgery. $320 in damages vs. directly costing HHM hundreds of thousands if not millions over a period of years as well as whatever it costs Mesa Verde to unfuck what he hosed with that switcheroo. That's what I suspect the hearing will really wind up being about. New Mexico standards for disbarment: quote:An attorney may be disbarred or suspended by the supreme court for any of the following causes arising after his admission to practice: Moral turpitude is kind of a hazy legal concept, but ends up encompassing a lot of common intentional crimes like theft/robbery/burglary, assault, forgery, etc. Also, a confession and witnesses means the evidence is likely conclusive. And while it's a "may" instead of a "shall," with most professional disciplinary boards I've dealt with, if the papers land in front of them saying you did it and there is a request for revocation of license, they aren't going to care about the story that goes with it.
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May 5, 2017 07:58
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Wafflecopper posted:There's no way in hell Kim is still on speaking terms with Jimmy in BB. She might be slipping a little now but no way would she tolerate the level of poo poo Saul gets up to. Come on. Like I said, they're on different trajectories, but speaking terms? She's not Chuck. She's not going to poo poo herself if Saul does something illegal or immoral, unless it can hurt her. In a relationship? Most likely no. 99.9999% no. But she could easily still be his friend, maybe view him as that gently caress up ex of hers that's still a nice guy at heart. She just can't get dragged down with him. People are really fast to make all these assumptions, when it could be either way. I agree they're almost certainly not together, but I see no reason he'd be disowned. Chuck however, no matter where he is or what happened to him, probably hates Saul with the power of a thousand suns. gently caress, Chuck might STILL be harassing Jimmy during BB's timeline, we don't know that for sure and to assume that's not the case is fool hearty. Saul might love plastering his posters everywhere just to piss him off in the nursing home for all we know. I'm just saying BB went out of it's way to NOT show any of Jimmy's personal life, because Saul is not stupid enough to drag that into work with the people he represents. I don't think they're together but so many people just keep beating this "Kim is dead, Chuck is dead" train and it's highly ... premature. Wafflecopper posted:Plus Jimmy needs to lose her to fully break bad Not really. He just represented scumbags before Walt and Jesse kidnapped him. He wasn't doing anything too horrendous outside of that, shady as he might be. Hell, as we know, Nacho is probably still around and you never saw him either, outside of the reference of "Tell Nacho I'll get him his money back, Jesus" or something along those lines when he mistook Jesse & Walt for Nacho's goons. It's just something I see over and over, with people going "If they're not in BB they are either dead or will not ever talk to Saul again." If Kim wants a career she'll have to dump him though, so that much I agree is likely.
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May 5, 2017 07:59
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Is Chuck for sure alive in BB? I'm kind of hoping he gets ratfucked some more in BCS cause he's my least favorite character out of both shows.
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May 5, 2017 08:00
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Charles Get-Out posted:Is Chuck for sure alive in BB? I'm kind of hoping he gets ratfucked some more in BCS cause he's my least favorite character out of both shows, including Walter. Status is completely unknown. I have to admit this is just wishful thinking but I'm hoping that the final season opens in black & white in the Cinnabon as always, but then.. fades to color, and it takes place post-BB and that Chuck is still around, still hates Jimmy, and the "final battle" is Jimmy fighting all the things he's charged with.. against Chuck (if not actually on the prosecution, certainly helping them). That'd be the way to tie it all up with a bow on top, for both series. It's a favorite theory of mine but I make absolutely zero bones about there being not even a grain of fact to it. Just something I think would be neat/work.
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May 5, 2017 08:04
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Blazing Ownager posted:Status is completely unknown. How could this possibly work? Saul didn't use vacuum guy for nothing; he was the lawyer of one of the most infamous criminals around. He can't go back. He's Gene until he decides to turn himself in. While it would be neat to have bcs show an extended bb scene where Saul gets done talking to Walter or Skyler, and then calls up Kim, I'm willing to bet that Kim moves away, possibly after losing her license/becoming disgraced. Maybe she moves back to Nebraska... Where I believe she's from. Maybe she's from Omaha? And that's why Saul mentions that city and seemingly got to choose it when being 'vacuumed' by Robert Forster? And maybe, before he turns himself in and drops the Gene facade, he goes to see her one more time. Or she happens to stop by for a cinnabon.
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May 5, 2017 08:40
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Lost Season posted:Mike's relationship with gus was more than just regular work, though. Mike was Gus's right hand, he oversaw large parts of the operation, and based on what we've gotten from BCS so far he surpassed quite a few guys Gus already has on payroll to get to that point. I think there's enough meat left in Mike's storyline that it will be able to match pace with Jimmy's. I don't remember Mike's role being the right hand man at all. I thought he was more of a loyal and dependable hired good that Gus would trust with his life, but not right hand man material. Calling him a right hand man implies some sort of autonomous dynasty. I don't remember Mike being ever involved with the business other than "protection." Compare him to Tom in The Godfather where he is definitely Michael's right hand man because he was entrusted with decision making etc to carry out business in the interest of the family. He could have (baring not being Sicilian) at any moment stepped in to take over the role of Don at the behest of Michael. Mike was more of a high Level enforcer, given free range to do what it takes to get the job done. But I don't remember he was given free range to decide what the proper jobs should be. Gus' empire would have (and did) die with Gus. Michael's empire could have survived with Tom (again, barring the fact that he's not Sicilian and would have probably not have been accepted by some/most of the family but still, the fact is that he was theoretically capable of running the business because he was actually involved in it). Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 11:01 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 10:57
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Boris Galerkin posted:Gus' empire would have (and did) die with Gus. Yeah, seems so. So, what was Gus' motivation, then? He didn't have a family to take care of. He didn't crave status. He was barely living it up, from the scenes they showed us at least. Was it all just so he could be in a position to take his best possible revenge on Salamanca? Was everything just busywork to distract him from the loss of his partner?
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May 5, 2017 11:09
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Succes is it's own reward for Gus, I think.
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May 5, 2017 11:19
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Yeah I'd be curious what got him mixed up with the cartel business originally but after he was in he might as well do it well in his mind.
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May 5, 2017 11:40
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Rexides posted:Yeah, seems so. So, what was Gus' motivation, then? He didn't have a family to take care of. He didn't crave status. He was barely living it up, from the scenes they showed us at least. Was it all just so he could be in a position to take his best possible revenge on Salamanca? Was everything just busywork to distract him from the loss of his partner? I think it's basically "if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right". Gus, from all the way back to BB, always struck me as someone who didn't cut corners. If he's going to do something, he's going to give it 100% to be the best, whether it's making chicken, cleaning up the restaurant, slitting someone's throat or selling meth. Samopsa posted:Succes is it's own reward for Gus, I think. Exactly.
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May 5, 2017 12:14
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Judging by Giancarlo Esposito's hairline he bought himself a lot of plugs too.
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May 5, 2017 12:38
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At first, I think it was for money for both him and his partner, thinking that if they worked FOR the cartel, they'd be taken care of. They could have a shot at the kind of life Don Eladio has. Once Max (was that his name?) was killed and Gus' world was effectively shattered, revenge was likely his goal at that point. He's just extremely patient and methodical, two traits that Walt sorely lacked. Edit: gently caress Chuck, but gently caress Walt forever more. I'd love to see those two together in a scene. Rupert Buttermilk fucked around with this message at 13:24 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 13:21
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:
Is there a camera made that could handle that much smug, self righteous condescension? Between the two of them there is enough to supply the human race for the next few decades.
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May 5, 2017 13:34
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Chuck is definitely dead by BB events, and Jimmy told us exactly how it's going to go down (in a hospital, alone and being tortured by EM)
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May 5, 2017 13:36
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Charles Get-Out posted:New Mexico standards for disbarment: Chuck seems hell-bent on proving he did NOT make a mistake. Having 'the confession' tape played is important enough for him to prevail upon the board members (many of whom presumable owe him in one way or another) to indulge "story hour" in this one case. That such a request is unusual at these hearings would add to the evidence of mental instability presented during story hour.
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May 5, 2017 13:51
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The end of the series will be Gene reading the Albuquerque Journal, taking brief note of the news story about the death of drug kingpin Walter "Heisenberg" White, before he turns to the obituaries and finds Chuck McGill, founding partner of Hamlin, Hamlin and Wexler has passed away - alone - after a long, unspecified illness. Fin
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May 5, 2017 14:24
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Chuck gets disbarred and publicly shamed so much that HHM has to sever all ties, leaving him financially insecure. He needs money to pay for a new breakthrough treatment for his disease however, and he just might have an idea on how to get it.
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May 5, 2017 14:29
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Jerusalem posted:I freely admit I haven't got a clue how the bar works, especially their disciplinary stuff, but do they really not take mitigating circumstances into account? RE: Bar proceedings. I'm not a lawyer but have friends that are. Mileage may vary, but my overall view is that the higher echelons of the law in any given state (bar, related associations, the big law firms (which HHM and Davis and Mane almost certainly are) are very buddy-buddy and everyone knows each other, knows when someone is up poo poo creek, etc..Jimmy even mentions that Chuck knows many on the bar. But we also know that Chuck's illness is somewhat common knowledge (the lawyer for Sandpiper seems to know about it in season 1). We already know that Jimmy doesn't get disbarred from practicing in the state of New Mexico. He definitely is working as a valid lawyer in Breaking Bad. And lawyers do shady poo poo all the time. He's likely going up against a suspended sentence for...30 days or something like that. In some cases, the bar or other disciplinary commission may restrict an attorney's area of practice. So if Jimmy committed wire fraud, they may restrict his area of practice to not include those types of cases. I don't think Jimmy is going to get off completely clean. That's a reoccurring theme in this series, and also we already know Jimmy's nature rubs the traditional lawyer types the wrong way.
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May 5, 2017 15:15
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notthegoatseguy posted:RE: Bar proceedings. I'm not a lawyer but have friends that are. Mileage may vary, but my overall view is that the higher echelons of the law in any given state (bar, related associations, the big law firms (which HHM and Davis and Mane almost certainly are) are very buddy-buddy and everyone knows each other, knows when someone is up poo poo creek, etc..Jimmy even mentions that Chuck knows many on the bar. But we also know that Chuck's illness is somewhat common knowledge (the lawyer for Sandpiper seems to know about it in season 1). I think telling him he can't practice law until he successfully completes probation is a likely outcome.
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May 5, 2017 15:25
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Worth noting that disbarment is not necessarily a prohibition on practicing forever, you can have your license to practice reinstated after jumping through hoops like a waiting period and a showing of good behavior, etc. The functional difference between a suspension and disbarment is that your license is automatically valid after the suspension period ends, whereas if you're disbarred you have to take action after any freeze out period & it's still not guaranteed that your license will be reinstated. So it's totally possible Jimmy gets disbarred before starting to practice as Saul Goodman.
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May 5, 2017 15:34
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I think I've even read about lawyers being disbarred from state courts but still continue to practice in federal courts.
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May 5, 2017 15:49
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Gus was always who Walt thought he was: cautious and reasonable
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May 5, 2017 15:53
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I don't get the prediction that Kim will die, it doesn't make any sense at this point of the story. Right now neither she nor Jimmy are in any physical danger. Maybe in the future she will be but I can't imagine a situation resulting in her death other than a freak accident or collateral damage (cartel related?). Either way would be a pretty lame way to go. It makes a lot more sense that they will grow apart either by choice or circumstance and eventually provide a nice hook to wrap up the story in the post-BB era. Unlikely prediction: She goes to the Cinabbon and doesn't recognize Jimmy. He is really nervous so he screws up her order and apologizes profusely though he is really talking about the past. She forgives him nonchalantly and walks away. Jimmy smiles.
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May 5, 2017 16:35
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:At first, I think it was for money for both him and his partner, thinking that if they worked FOR the cartel, they'd be taken care of. They could have a shot at the kind of life Don Eladio has. I'm always amused at people who get mad at Walt for killing Gus, a murderous drug kingpin who destroyed countless lives with his business and threatened to murder Walt's entire family, infant daughter included. I mean yeah Walt's a bad guy but come on, you really think him killing Gus was nothing but some crybaby outburst of pride? No, it was pretty drat justified self-preservation and in the grand scheme of things a morally neutral action (and of course I'm talking about the discrete act of killing Gus in a vacuum, Brock's poisoning itself being indefensible in any context). And this ties in to Mike's final tirade against Walt before being killed by him, which people often cite as being a really cathartic put-down of Walt but which ultimately made no sense. Walt should have just kept his head down and enjoyed the good thing they all had going? The whole reason Walt's troubles with Gus began is because Jesse went out to kill Gus's two thugs after they killed Tomás, which spurred Walt to kill Gus's thugs in order to save Jesse's life (then Walt hid him from Mike, who was out to find and kill Jesse!). Then Walt had Jesse kill Gale to save both his and Jesse's lives from Gus, who wanted them both dead. There was no point where Walt could have just let things alone and walked away with his life--and the whole conflict started because he was trying to save Jesse's life, which you would think Mike would have come to appreciate. And I know that even the creators likely intend Mike's tirade to be exactly what many fans take it as--and Mike obviously does have a solid point about Walt, even if the example he used is horribly flawed--but I think this is one instance where the writers themselves got a bit too wrapped up in the Mike cult and didn't really consider the full context of everything that had happened in the story before. Chernabog posted:I don't get the prediction that Kim will die, it doesn't make any sense at this point of the story. Right now neither she nor Jimmy are in any physical danger. Maybe in the future she will be but I can't imagine a situation resulting in her death other than a freak accident or collateral damage (cartel related?). Either way would be a pretty lame way to go. There's no way she wouldn't recognize him. This is a man she's known and loved for years. He didn't get reconstructive surgery. A sparse hairline and a mustache aren't going to make him unrecognizable to her. Capntastic posted:Gus was always who Walt thought he was: cautious and reasonable Not when it came to his vendetta. If he was cautious and reasonable, he would have let Mike kill Hector. One business rival out of the way, justice for Max's murder served, and absolutely no way to trace it back to Gus, since Gus actually wouldn't have been involved. But Gus wanted Hector to suffer, and he wanted to be the one to make it happen. So he let Hector live that day, and Hector ultimately ended up being the agent of his demise. I think that's the point actually. Walt thinks he's as cautious and reasonable as Gus, but he isn't. Gus thinks he's above reckless emotional impulses, but when it comes to his vendetta, he's just as bad as Walt. When he first meets Walt, Gus tells Walt never to trust an addict (referring to Jesse). There's a double irony there because they're both addicts themselves. Walt is addicted to the adrenaline rush from his life of criminality, and Gus is addicted to revenge. Jesse, who's only addicted to drugs, is the only one who makes it out alive and free. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 17:01 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 16:46
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I know, I was just musing.
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May 5, 2017 16:57
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Kim dying would be right along the lines of the discarded idea from season 1 of BrBa where Walter concocts some weird suicide machine for Krazy 8 in the basement but then K8 ends up manipulating Walter Jr into triggering it, thus killing Junior. I mean, it'd all depend on how they do it, but like others have said, she's completely insulated from the really nasty people (so far) so they've got a lot of work to do if they want it to make sense. I mean she could end up dying of some lovely disease or a car accident or whatever too, but I dunno that feels pretty lame.
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May 5, 2017 16:59
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Jimmy is going to look like the hard working virtuous law talking guy and Chuck will be cast as the stereotypical slimeball, and when Chuck realizes what happened it's going to be great.
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May 5, 2017 17:01
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