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geeves posted:Or for people who are, "Validate and applause for me as I do something stupid that could ruin my knees forever." Whoa bro! Bro! ....bro. If you are wrecking your knees then you are doing it wrong bro. Only do the truest CrossFit.
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May 4, 2017 13:08
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I don't know what CrossFit is exactly, but it seems like a good way to motivate people to exercise? I mean I've done some serious/goon style barbell training years ago, and it seems like CrossFit is more fun because of the variety. Why hate on it.
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May 4, 2017 13:28
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amotea posted:I don't know what CrossFit is exactly, but it seems like a good way to motivate people to exercise? Hahahaha, hoo boy. You shoulda checked in on the crossfit thread in gbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKzq1upNIgU They generally seem to encourage high reps with bad form which is real bad and not actually working out. For the price of how much the thing costs, you should expect better.
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May 4, 2017 14:03
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Oh ok, I thought it was just a list of fun exercises to do or something. I also found out they have an "Uncle Rhabdo"  .Couldn't find the thread in GBS btw.
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May 4, 2017 14:21
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Dirty Frank posted:Reasonable grounds for murder, right? No jury would convict. If it is, I need to book a trip. We've got SIT testing happening offsite and I swear to god my example is not that far off the mark 
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May 4, 2017 14:43
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Crossfit isn't so bad if you don't go full retard but there's the general philosophy behind it that push for the herd mentality and that's when you get the bro-ing and incessant and insufferable facebook post from the converted.
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May 4, 2017 16:15
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a couple of these don't seem to actually be Crossfit but this is pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T74Xek-pDLM
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May 4, 2017 17:27
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Today I met a tester who claims to have over a decade of experience in developing automated tests using, among others, java and selenium. Somehow she never heard of git.
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May 4, 2017 17:48
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Keetron posted:Today I met a tester who claims to have over a decade of experience in developing automated tests using, among others, java and selenium. hg user?
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May 4, 2017 18:21
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Pollyanna posted:hg user? I thought you are all jaded and cynical now 
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May 4, 2017 18:30
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Pollyanna posted:hg user? While never having had the pleasure to work with SVN or Mercurial, at least I know what it is. Just like Javascript, C, C++ or IBM websphere. This person was straight up: "Git? What is that?" Really, I am more surprised than anything else. I will judge her capabilities next week after giving a crash course and if she picks it up fast it will be good, if she keeps sticking to what is known, it will be bad. And understanding git takes a bit anyway.
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May 4, 2017 18:30
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A guy in my interview Tuesday went off-script and asked what I thought about SVN vs. Git because they were on SVN and were thinking about switching. I just talked about how much better branching and code reviewing was with Git (in that we didn't do it at all on SVN). Hopefully it made a good impression!
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May 4, 2017 18:48
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Keetron posted:Today I met a tester who claims to have over a decade of experience in developing automated tests using, among others, java and selenium. This is not as uncommon as you think. Many large enterprises do not use DVCS, especially those for whom software is not their primary business. Think insurance, healthcare, financial industries.
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May 4, 2017 19:24
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:This is not as uncommon as you think. Many large enterprises do not use DVCS, especially those for whom software is not their primary business. Think insurance, healthcare, financial industries. Even for ones that are software oriented, the people making the decisions are most comfortable with central VCS solutions. DVCS are scarey. Add into the fact that many non developers have trouble even using a VCS and I can see why someone may not know about git or mercurial.
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May 4, 2017 19:26
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HFX posted:Even for ones that are software oriented, the people making the decisions are most comfortable with central VCS solutions. DVCS are scarey. Add into the fact that many non developers have trouble even using a VCS and I can see why someone may not know about git or mercurial. Oddly enough, I've been seeing a lot of cargo culting into Git lately from these types of orgs -- someone at the top hears "Git is the cool thing the kids are using" and forces it on developers who have no knowledge or interest in changing their tooling. It sucks.
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May 4, 2017 19:31
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:This is not as uncommon as you think. Many large enterprises do not use DVCS, especially those for whom software is not their primary business. Think insurance, healthcare, financial industries. I can understand having never *used* it, but having never even *heard* of it is weird for a ten-year software veteran. Not necessarily a deal-breaker.
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May 4, 2017 20:01
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lifg posted:I can understand having never *used* it, but having never even *heard* of it is weird for a ten-year software veteran. Not necessarily a deal-breaker. It's because the places that actually hire test automation specialists are the places NYNY was talking about that have been using the same source control for the living memory of the organization and most people are way less curious about the hip new things in tech than you realize.
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May 4, 2017 20:17
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lifg posted:I can understand having never *used* it, but having never even *heard* of it is weird for a ten-year software veteran. Not necessarily a deal-breaker. Again, not in these types of companies. They don't get exposed to anything outside of what their job exposes them to. They don't care about the industry, or trends in the industry, or the act of writing software in general. They care about coming into work, jamming code into the same codebase they've been working on for the past 15 years, and going home after 8 hours. Also, they will raise hell if you ask them to change anything about the way they work. New Yorp New Yorp fucked around with this message at 21:17 on May 4, 2017 |
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May 4, 2017 21:13
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:Again, not in these types of companies. They don't get exposed to anything outside of what their job exposes them to. They don't care about the industry, or trends in the industry, or the act of writing software in general. They care about coming into work, jamming code into the same codebase they've been working on for the past 15 years, and going home after 8 hours. It's just such a dangerous way to live. I've talked to too many old programmers who did the same COBOL or PL1 work for twenty years, got laid off, and found themselves without the skill set to survive. They skated for a few years in testing, then eventually fell out of even that. The only old and employed programmers I know are ones who either kept learning new technologies, or learned how to manage people. All personal experience, and not enough data points, but it has affected how I manage my career. (Also, I was first exposed to Git at Bank of America in 2007ish. But the guy who set up our workflow there was later poached by Google. I don't know what lesson to take from that.)
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May 4, 2017 22:32
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Most enterprise jobs in general will eventually sap your will to go home and do anything with a computer besides veg out on it let alone live in the first place, so I ask about hobbies and interests if the skills & knowledge don't quite match my personal ideas of competence. Why? Really, really dull people tend to be very low-skill even in their hobbies. Like one guy I interviewed basically just fished for 15 years and coasted. When I asked what kind of fishing and where he liked to go, I got a shrug and "wherever." I mean, I get hating your job to not care but if you don't have a passion for your hobbies that can excite someone else, I dunno what I can expect from you on the job besides more misery. Wish I could refer some interviewees to a therapist but that just isn't going to fly. But really, huge company survival oftentimes means suppressing the will to do anything besides a tiny, narrow job because so many things are out of your control and if you give a drat about things, you'll just be miserable and burn out trying to fix so many broken things whether they're computers or groups of people.
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May 5, 2017 12:31
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There are some people I work with that regularly voice the opinion that they can't understand working on programming projects on nights or weekends. It's really sad to me because they very clearly don't like programming (one has even said literally that), but they're basically stuck doing it because it pays relatively well. Most of the people I knew that actually enjoy it recently left, and it's making me think.  I spent a few years working with very small teams; 1-4 engineers at the company. Basically everyone loved programming if not the work they were doing on hours. It's quite surprising how many people working in larger orgs (~150 people here) just hate their career. How do they live with themselves? 
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May 5, 2017 12:49
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necrobobsledder posted:Most enterprise jobs in general will eventually sap your will to go home and do anything with a computer besides veg out on it let alone live in the first place, so I ask about hobbies and interests if the skills & knowledge don't quite match my personal ideas of competence. Why? Really, really dull people tend to be very low-skill even in their hobbies. Like one guy I interviewed basically just fished for 15 years and coasted. When I asked what kind of fishing and where he liked to go, I got a shrug and "wherever." I mean, I get hating your job to not care but if you don't have a passion for your hobbies that can excite someone else, I dunno what I can expect from you on the job besides more misery. Wish I could refer some interviewees to a therapist but that just isn't going to fly. This isn't college, why are you asking people about extracurricular activities as a signal instead of just to put the candidate at ease? I understand not having a lot of good signal to evaluate a candidate on but this is ridiculous. Programmer here, I generally no longer enjoy taking the busman's holiday of programming in my spare time, because I've got so very little effective spare time. This is a problem for me, because employers just assume that you want to learn new skills all the time on your own time, which is a thing that's far more accessible to generally younger and lower paid employees who actually have the time to do that. I also really enjoy reading, but I'm so drained by the end of the day that I find it hard to put in the mental energy to actually keep track. I don't want someone to ask me "so what have you read lately, let's discuss" and then judge me for having only gotten five pages in to my most recent choice in the last 3 months. This dude just wants to drop a line in the water whenever he gets the chance, he's not going to say "well I don't really enjoy fishing for the fish but rather for the social aspect of hanging out with my buddies and drinking a couple so that we can complain about our lives. Ultimately, our coolers come in full of beer and leave empty of fish, and that's ok." This dude isn't going to say that because it's none of your business and the idea that he has to tell you about his personal time to get hired and then get judged on it is a little gross.
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May 5, 2017 13:38
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Yeah, I like programming, but after sitting in a chair staring at the screen the whole day I'm done computering.
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May 5, 2017 13:46
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leper khan posted:There are some people I work with that regularly voice the opinion that they can't understand working on programming projects on nights or weekends. It's really sad to me because they very clearly don't like programming (one has even said literally that), but they're basically stuck doing it because it pays relatively well. I enjoy programming a great deal but am also a little confused by people who spend the day coding and then come home and spend their evening doing more coding.
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May 5, 2017 13:48
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raminasi posted:I enjoy programming a great deal but am also a little confused by people who spend the day coding and then come home and spend their evening doing more coding. Maybe you have a job where you generally get to do interesting work during the day. 
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May 5, 2017 14:43
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raminasi posted:I enjoy programming a great deal but am also a little confused by people who spend the day coding and then come home and spend their evening doing more coding. Yeah same a little, which is frustrating because I want to try and get a job in game dev, which apparently requires personal projects to show off. Luckily, I'm in SIT hell at work currently, so by comparison programming personal stuff is currently waaaaaaaaaaay more fun.
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May 5, 2017 14:44
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Volmarias posted:This isn't college, why are you asking people about extracurricular activities as a signal instead of just to put the candidate at ease? I understand not having a lot of good signal to evaluate a candidate on but this is ridiculous. I had an interview the other day where they specifically went into what I did in high school. I'm 29.
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May 5, 2017 15:03
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Volmarias posted:This isn't college, why are you asking people about extracurricular activities as a signal instead of just to put the candidate at ease? I understand not having a lot of good signal to evaluate a candidate on but this is ridiculous. 1. This is in lieu of a candidate having anything really relevant nor being able to demonstrate they're even that good at their existing job. This might come as a shock to much of the thread, but most companies have trouble finding remotely competent engineers let alone programmers and you have to take what you can on the market, and most of them are laid off people that never wanted to learn anything outside work for decades. 2. If someone doesn't have much directly relevant in experience but is otherwise intelligent, I need someone that shows they can learn quickly and that usually requires a lot of energy and willpower. If you don't have the energy to learn really fast and you don't have much in relevant skills, I can't hire you. This is admittedly biased against older people, but I have hired people older than my father that have plenty of energy and have done great work. Don't be a tired old person. If you're going to be old, at least have some joy left in you somewhere. I've been a grumpy old man since I was 19 and I don't want another me anywhere I work. 3. If you don't have much energy to do anything after work and your work is pretty basic maintenance at a slow pace, it's probably burn out and I've gone through it enough myself to know that the person will be basically useless for months in even a new job. Most places can't afford to let anyone train up for nearly a year, especially the typical place that has a tight budget and expectations for companies five times their size. Besides, even if you just Google for stuff you'll probably come across something relevant to 21st century software and systems. You'll have HEARD about Github. You'll have HEARD about Amazon being more than just an online Walmart. If you don't know any of this, are at a mediocre software shop, have nothing really notable for 15+ years even at said mediocre software shop, and all that is still so mentally taxing your hobbies are mostly to "get away from it" I don't have high expectations about your current ability to work in a modern software shop in an organization that needs a bit of energy just to keep the lights on.
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May 5, 2017 15:16
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leper khan posted:I had an interview the other day where they specifically went into what I did in high school. I'm 29. My response would have been: Just like any teenager, I was a shitheel and dumb.
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May 5, 2017 15:16
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ratbert90 posted:My response would have been: Just like any teenager, I was a shitheel and dumb. I did competitive robotics. It was fun and cool and I didn't mind talking about it, just felt weird that they asked about what got me into computers and then kept digging at it.
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May 5, 2017 15:44
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necrobobsledder posted:I'm not trying to move goal posts but the context I had in mind is probably different than some of your assumptions probably. This might come as a shock to you, but I've conducted quite a few interviews, and the majority of them were awful candidates. I have had a candidate that outright refused to write code for me, possibly out of anxiety but very possibly because they did not know how. quote:2. If someone doesn't have much directly relevant in experience but is otherwise intelligent, I need someone that shows they can learn quickly and that usually requires a lot of energy and willpower. If you don't have the energy to learn really fast and you don't have much in relevant skills, I can't hire you. This is admittedly biased against older people, but I have hired people older than my father that have plenty of energy and have done great work. Don't be a tired old person. If you're going to be old, at least have some joy left in you somewhere. I've been a grumpy old man since I was 19 and I don't want another me anywhere I work. Thanks for admitting to discriminating against a federally protected class I guess. quote:3. If you don't have much energy to do anything after work and your work is pretty basic maintenance at a slow pace, it's probably burn out and I've gone through it enough myself to know that the person will be basically useless for months in even a new job. Most places can't afford to let anyone train up for nearly a year, especially the typical place that has a tight budget and expectations for companies five times their size. I get all of that. I don't get asking candidates about how they fish. If you've reached the point that you're asking about hobbies, the candidate is very likely already a lost cause. If you're hoping that they tell you that they're super passionate about making fishing boats, it's not likely that they'll suddenly transfer that passion to writing your artisanal bespoke CRM product.
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May 5, 2017 15:57
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raminasi posted:I enjoy programming a great deal but am also a little confused by people who spend the day coding and then come home and spend their evening doing more coding. I found that I do a lot more coding at home when what I do at work is boring. When I do cool stuff at work, the home-coding time is almost non-existent.
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May 5, 2017 16:01
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Volguus posted:I found that I do a lot more coding at home when what I do at work is boring. When I do cool stuff at work, the home-coding time is almost non-existent. This echoes my exact feelings on the matter. My job has been getting stale for a long while now, but I found out a cool personal project to work on and I'm looking forward to work on it in the weekends.
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May 5, 2017 16:07
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I interviewed someone yesterday who answered questions like Donald Trump. Me: "Tell me about your experience with X." Him: "I've used X a lot, for years, it's great! I love X. I know it inside and out. It's really good for <doing the thing it's supposed to do>" Me: "Okay, so can you tell me how you've used it in a project before?" Him: "Yeah, absolutely. I used X to solve <the problem it's supposed to solve>. It's the best at doing that!" Me: "Can you go into some more specifics about how you used it to <solve problem>?" Him: <evasive non-answer> He did that for every question about every topic. New Yorp New Yorp fucked around with this message at 16:09 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 16:07
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necrobobsledder posted:Most enterprise jobs in general will eventually sap your will to go home and do anything with a computer besides veg out on it let alone live in the first place, so I ask about hobbies and interests if the skills & knowledge don't quite match my personal ideas of competence. Why? Really, really dull people tend to be very low-skill even in their hobbies. Like one guy I interviewed basically just fished for 15 years and coasted. When I asked what kind of fishing and where he liked to go, I got a shrug and "wherever." I mean, I get hating your job to not care but if you don't have a passion for your hobbies that can excite someone else, I dunno what I can expect from you on the job besides more misery. Wish I could refer some interviewees to a therapist but that just isn't going to fly.
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May 5, 2017 16:11
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:I interviewed someone yesterday who answered questions like Donald Trump. You just know someone is bullshitting when they say they use tools for what they're meant to be used for.
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May 5, 2017 16:20
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Rubellavator posted:You just know someone is bullshitting when they say they use tools for what they're meant to be used for. I mean, there's a difference between: "Oh I love git, at my last project we used feature branches for our stories and had good merge practices so that our repository was squeaky clean and had different release branches and I found it really handy when I had to rebase X onto Y" and "Oh, I love git. It's great at version control. At my last project we used it so that our development team could all work on the same codebase."
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May 5, 2017 16:29
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I was helping phone-screen a candidate once who had sent in a resume that was something like six pages long with basically everything she ever did at every place. I think I printed out the first four pages of it at 50% scale, unlike everybody else there. She talked so much during the screen that nobody challenged her knowledge or tried to relate her knowledge to the duties of the position we were trying to fill. At the end of the phone screen, everybody on the panel went, "She seemed to know her stuff!" and I was very confused.
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May 5, 2017 16:28
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ChickenWing posted:I mean, there's a difference between: Yeah, it was the latter. He actually talked about Git a little bit. He said "I use it to check in and check out code". He thought that distributed version control meant that code was split into different repos.
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May 5, 2017 16:38
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Volguus posted:I found that I do a lot more coding at home when what I do at work is boring. When I do cool stuff at work, the home-coding time is almost non-existent. Yep. I've found that I can spend maybe 6 hours a day working on hard and interesting problems before I'm fried. When I had a boring job that involved two hours of actual work a day I'd come home and spend a few hours working on personal projects all the time. Now I only do when I'm taking time off from work.
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