|
All armies have a building available at the start of the game that produces anti tank infantry that costs no power (With the exception of eldar, and to upgrade the warrior portal to do it it only costs a small amount of power, 10 maybe?) For Orks and Space marines they also produce other things that are probably useful and good to have, like Lootas, Trucks and Heavy Bolters. The cost of the building that produces vehicles is already over 100 power, and you don't even get the vehicles yet so it's much easier to get to the counters first. Not saying vehicles are bad, it's just there's really no way to rush them unless your opponent literally decides not to build a counter. DarkAvenger211 fucked around with this message at 21:07 on May 5, 2017 |
#
?
May 5, 2017 21:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 12:56 |
|
|
DarkAvenger211 posted:All armies have a building available at the start of the game that produces anti tank infantry that costs no power (With the exception of eldar, and to upgrade the warrior portal to do it it only costs a small amount of power, 10 maybe?) I have never once seen anyone build a lascannon devastator squad until late in the game once vehicles are plentiful. It is a lot less useful against eldar, because they generally get wraithguard asap, and they just tear up vehicles and buildings.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 21:34
|
|
|
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=918347299 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=918019797
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 22:34
|
|
|
I dunno if y'all are in to this kind of thing but this was my first game I felt comfy like I was playing it instead of fighting it and I saved the replay to watch to confirm that I'm actually garbage but maybe some of the micro and build was neat: https://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar3/replays.php?game=95&show=details&id=320132. It's a 3v3 as Eldar going Scorpions (SlowBomb) HawkDude (DoubleAvengerGrenade) Wraithlord (OpGates) DireAvengerCamo DireAvengerBetterNades I hosed up and built a bunch of WrathGuard back at base and set up for what was in my head a super sick move in somewhere thick with the WL and a bunch of Avengers then teleport all the WraithGuard on top of something but when I went to press the button I forgot I didn't put the teleport ability on my sheet in Army Builder, nooooo. If anyone has some reps they wanna share and say somethin' about how you felt playin it like, if there was a sick play or whatever, it'd be groovy  PS vv Awesome, thanks! moved teh_Broseph fucked around with this message at 23:36 on May 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 23:13
|
|
|
replays are good score boards are horrible if you want you can also host them on like drop box, mega.nz, or google drive
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 23:18
|
|
|
teh_Broseph posted:I dunno if y'all are in to this kind of thing but this was my first game I felt comfy like I was playing it instead of fighting it and I saved the replay to watch to confirm that I'm actually garbage but maybe some of the micro and build was neat: http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=08872416607941914207. It's a 3v3 as Eldar going I'd use this https://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar3/replays.php?game=95
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 23:23
|
|
|
Have devs mentioned anything about adding a last stand mode?
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 00:09
|
|
|
KillerQueen posted:Have devs mentioned anything about adding a last stand mode? Also wondering, it's whats prevented me and my DoWII group making the final step to get the game.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 00:17
|
|
|
So went through the codex and found something a little off. See if you can find it.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 00:21
|
|
|
KillerQueen posted:Have devs mentioned anything about adding a last stand mode? "We'd love to do it." I think it will make it in. It seems a no brainer. But if it's holding someone's purchase up, don't buy it in hopes.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 00:25
|
|
|
Third World Reggin posted:So went through the codex and found something a little off. Ignoring Eldar and their shields and grenades, shootas and tacs have the same dps time to health to kill each other, except the shootas won't lose dps as fast as dudes drop..or wait do the marines keep dps longer cause they don't start immediatly losing models? But the marines cost twice as much wohhh E: Don't remember if I saw it here but in the dev note stuff talking about patches they wanna do something about tacs (buff) teh_Broseph fucked around with this message at 00:47 on May 6, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 00:40
|
|
|
teh_Broseph posted:Ignoring Eldar and their shields and grenades, shootas and tacs have the same dps time to health to kill each other, except the shootas won't lose dps as fast as dudes drop..or wait do the marines keep dps longer cause they don't start immediatly losing models? But the marines cost twice as much wohhh Yeah, the lower dps on the tac marines is offset by the fact that they have nearly double the life of either the eldar or ork equivalent.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 00:48
|
|
|
The game is good and fun. I had a guy teleport his weird boy onto my base right before the final rock came down and that was kind of lame but I still won because I'm so good at video games.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 01:29
|
|
|
teh_Broseph posted:Ignoring Eldar and their shields and grenades, shootas and tacs have the same dps time to health to kill each other, except the shootas won't lose dps as fast as dudes drop..or wait do the marines keep dps longer cause they don't start immediatly losing models? But the marines cost twice as much wohhh the big yellow number, look closer
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 01:30
|
|
|
Khisanth Magus posted:Yeah, the lower dps on the tac marines is offset by the fact that they have nearly double the life of either the eldar or ork equivalent. lol that makes it worse, like way worse tanky units don't kill killy units also gaining health back is a bitch and requires certain doctrines to do, otherwise you are gaining 1 hp a sec next to a building, more if you are a shieldar
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 01:34
|
|
|
Yeah when you gotta nitpick the differences in use but one costs twice as much, lol. No wonder it feels so hard to try and mass em when I play marines; really all I wanna do right now is watch like 1000 duders go pew pew but uhh lemme tell ya it was a hell of a lot smoother to do as Eldar. The extra shields and better grenade doctines make Avengers better at being bolter squads than bolter squads are right now, hah.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 02:09
|
|
|
Third World Reggin posted:So went through the codex and found something a little off. Were you thinking "Tactical Marines are awful" or "Tactical Marines have 5 guys, not 10"?
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 03:48
|
|
|
For some reason in the codex, the resource cost for infantry is 5 times lower than it should be. Tac marines are 400 not 80 cost. Vehicles and builders are right though. Also it sucks you can't see the dps change with upgrades like plasma.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 03:52
|
|
|
Third World Reggin posted:For some reason in the codex, the resource cost for infantry is 5 times lower than it should be. Tac marines are 400 not 80 cost. Vehicles and builders are right though. it's their reinforce cost
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 04:08
|
|
|
I was thinking of running some skirmishes against easy AI and screenshotting all the stats, maybe I'll see if I can just compare them against that codex instead
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 04:08
|
|
|
Weremacht posted:it's their reinforce cost Why do vehicles have a reinforcement cost in the codex
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 04:29
|
|
|
Third World Reggin posted:Why do vehicles have a reinforcement cost in the codex it lists their full price because they don't have a reinforce cost, or rather, they're a unit of one model so their reinforce cost is buying it again
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 04:30
|
|
|
So I may have found a weird bug with the AI which might explain why it freaks out some times. When playing with other people, resource points can be upgraded to give a larger percentage but after awhile you are done. You can not upgrade it anymore. The AI doesn't seem to have this limit. If you play with it as an ally, let it upgrade the resource points. After awhile you may see 2 or 3 cancel upgrade buttons above a resource node. I let this go on for awhile and the AI some how got a resource point with two resource generators up to 900 income. I am almost certain we can't get it that high normally.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
Third World Reggin posted:So went through the codex and found something a little off. This isn't quite as clear cut as it looks. Buying a new squad of each of these is very close in cost; tacticals cost a ton more to reinforce because they have less models in the squad with far more HP. Dire Avengers have huge DPS but suffer from cooldown periods on their guns like plasma marines which limits their sustained output and Shoota Boyz are a huge squad that is vulnerable to AoE effects and die like flies so lose effective DPS very quickly. Tac marines are enormously tanky for a basic line unit so they continue to work at full performance for longer. The problem with them is that their complete lack of natural abilities means that naked tacs measure up poorly against other basic units that have abiliites and the upgrades that make tacs useful are too costly to be worth it compared to other options. They need to give tacs a slight bolter damage buff, make flamers and plasma cost less power(20-30 for flamer and 30-40 for plasma would be reasonable, imo), make it so it doesn't cost power to reinforce a flamer squad because jesus christ, and make assault marines cost a little more(move them from 15 to 30 power, imo) to make it so ASM aren't the best solution to every Space Marine problem.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 00:34
|
|
|
Kanos posted:This isn't quite as clear cut as it looks. Buying a new squad of each of these is very close in cost; tacticals cost a ton more to reinforce because they have less models in the squad with far more HP. I think they should give Tacs +1 melee and +2 ranged DPS per model, so we're looking at 23/38. That way Tacs have the "dominant in melee against other shooters" angle covered more cleanly, while also shooting with enough damage to be credible in shootouts and threaten melee units as they come in. There were rumors of a doctrine in the first closed beta that gave Tacs a melee charge, increased melee damage, and a critical strike - (re?)implementing that might be another interesting way to change Tacs, though I think it needs to be coupled with other changes so that it doesn't become "take this doctrine or don't use Tacs".
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 00:54
|
|
|
This is one of my favorite bugs so far. If you have an AI on your team, they can do this. They never stop spending resources upgrading and can keep doing it.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 04:39
|
|
|
Kanos posted:This isn't quite as clear cut as it looks. Buying a new squad of each of these is very close in cost; tacticals cost a ton more to reinforce because they have less models in the squad with far more HP. Make ASMs pay for power swords on a per squad basis or make them pay for the upgrade in the reinforce costs like Tacs do for their weapons and you would go a long way toward reigning in the absurd efficiency of power sword ASM.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 07:27
|
|
|
It probably wouldn't do much for making Tacs not be poo poo, though?
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 09:24
|
|
|
Power swords are a problem mostly because the true damage lets them take out a power generator pretty early or a tower quickly. A lot of players seem to think that this increases their damage when it just removes their damage reduction against buildings/vehicles and gives them a vehicle stun on leaps. Even in the ESL tournament today, the guy who won kept complaining about ASMs and their true damage right after he lost his dire avengers. Power swords don't increase ASM normal damage. What makes them too good is the vulnerable dreads doctrine that gives them another leap that does damage as they pass through things. The ASM melee dps they do might also have to be toned down a bit but in general melee dps on dedicated melee units is really high. They also combo way to well with the librarian's thunderdome. The tactical marines are just, well, awful early on. There isn't an easy solution without touching their dps. Auto firing flamers is a bad idea, lowering their cost/health is ok but they still won't kill things. You could make them the same cost as dire avengers and the avengers could just win with more units in melee. In 1v1, space marine players have figured out to just get 2 scouts to 1 asm and stun / blind things to death since they can't get the dps they need. Soon as they can, they get land speeders since those also have crazy high range dps and let them pick off units. That is pretty much their phase 1 and 2 strats that they can't deviate much from. Eldar also have an issue where their webway doctrine is just too good and they don't have a lot of reasons to get different units at the start. Maybe a banshee or two, then a lot of dire avengers, and you are done until you win or need to get vehicles out. I got a feeling relic will not do well on this balance patch in what, 3 weeks? EDIT: I also love finding all these bugs like certain doctrines to not work on units that come from drop pods but will work on units produced in buildings.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 10:09
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:Make ASMs pay for power swords on a per squad basis or make them pay for the upgrade in the reinforce costs like Tacs do for their weapons and you would go a long way toward reigning in the absurd efficiency of power sword ASM. With thanks to Zaodai for pointing out that this doesn't address the issue with tacs and thanks to Third World Reggin for pointing out how Power Swords aren't really the problem, this issue doesn't really fix the issue. The optimal solution isn't to nerf the gently caress out of ASM, it's to keep them powerful and effective in their intended role(expensive, high DPS melee jump troop used for disruption) while tweaking their cost slightly so that it's not optimal to spam them as your basic line unit. A "power swords per squad" nerf wouldn't change the ratio of ASM to Tacticals you see, it would just reduce the number of ASM with power swords. Making them cost a bit more power per squad and on reinforce without changing their stats keeps them powerful and effective but presents a dilemma to the marine player; you can still go 2-3 squads of ASM if you want and they'll still do work, but you're delaying your tech, and also if tacticals get buffed you're also having to make power cost choices between ASM or tactical weapons. Choices are good.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 10:40
|
|
|
Definitely starting to hit the point where the games small map and race pool is hurting it.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 15:05
|
|
|
Even more so now that the meta is starting to settle into a deeply lovely place so you're not even getting variety from game to game.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 16:33
|
|
|
What's the meta for us bads who don't know what's best? Even though I kind of want to ignore it to keep in the bliss of building whatever looks cool while everyone else is still bad too.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 17:17
|
|
|
Game is all blobs that get wiped by elites Too much micro Orcs are OP No wait Eldar are OP Marines suck Assault marines are OP Meta is lovely What do you guys think the whine of the day will be tomorrow? I just played a 1v1 against a guy who said the game is boring and DoW2 was better. I asked what he meant but he just repeated it's boring, then after I chain stunned his banshee elite to death with stickbombs, hard boy charges, and mek scrap he complained units don't respond to commands and quit. Perhaps after one week you have not yet mastered the game guys.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 17:18
|
|
|
teh_Broseph posted:What's the meta for us bads who don't know what's best? Even though I kind of want to ignore it to keep in the bliss of building whatever looks cool while everyone else is still bad too. Keep doing that because whatever people think "the meta" is today will be proven to actually be lovely and forgotten by the end of the week.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 17:19
|
|
|
Next week's meta I'm callin' it is:
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 17:21
|
|
|
Artum posted:Definitely starting to hit the point where the games small map and race pool is hurting it. The game has been out for a week and a bit and burnout is already setting in?
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 17:25
|
|
|
I mean yeah, the game has a small race pool, but it wouldn't matter if it had twenty races if everyone and their dog were just going to play Space Marines anyways.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 17:38
|
|
|
Comrayn posted:Game is all blobs that get wiped by elites Banshees being the hard counter to their own supposed hard counters isn't a mastery issue its bad balance. At the 4 minute mark you get 4 squads of banshees research quick strike and run them in stealth with striking scorpions, whenever you see something you run up to them then mass charge and instagib the unit, then either kill literally every other unit there or if you start taking too much fire you retreat with zero losses because of battle focus. Either you win through wiping out the other side or you win through attrition. Heavy weapon teams don't stop them because they can just kill those with the opening move, flamers and other abilities don't stop them because the banshee scream is always doctrined for silence so its immediately canceled, gabriel can almost work with retribution but thats 8 minutes in and if they're not a complete idiot they just angle their charge to also hit him and take off 60% of his health in one shot. You cant counter them with your own melee because they just kind of hit a critical mass of critical strikes, which for banshees deal true damage so everything just evaporates, and the moment things start to turn against them the charge is usually off cooldown so they can immediately kill whatever they're engaged with. Much like power swords that upgrade needs to be in t2 or honestly would be a lot fairer if it were a per-squad purchase so there was some risk to it.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 18:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 12:56 |
|
|
Well we are getting a balance patch soon.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 18:23
|
|
