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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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SSNeoman posted:Pelosi also says that single payer needs to happen on a state level first, which is understandable since loving look at Obamacare and people's reaction to it. Backpedaling now? Also single payer in the states is doomed to failure without the Fed and is a great way for Dem leadership to shrug off any suggestion that they add it to the platform.
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May 5, 2017 20:18
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Oxxidation posted:No checkmark. No follow-up. No verification. Posted by the editor for a left-wing zine who's retweeted it and begged for signal boosts multiple times in the last 24 hours despite having nothing to back up the story except for a brief article from his own newspaper. https://twitter.com/EvanMcS/status/860149973261983746 i mean, he's got a checkmark right there. also don't see any retweets or begging for signal boosts. maybe i'm just bad at twitter? Condiv fucked around with this message at 20:25 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 20:18
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Fiction posted:Backpedaling now? Also single payer in the states is doomed to failure without the Fed and is a great way for Dem leadership to shrug off any suggestion that they add it to the platform. California can prob do single payer: it has a bigger population and economy than Canada
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May 5, 2017 20:23
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i mean, i'm not sure how "pelosi doesn't support single payer!" is either fake news or interesting news.
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May 5, 2017 20:25
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Condiv posted:https://twitter.com/EvanMcS/status/860149973261983746 Point of origin was this idiot: https://twitter.com/samknight1/stat...pagenumber%3D11 Everyone since then has been creatively misquoting to drum up likes.
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May 5, 2017 20:29
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Oxxidation posted:Point of origin was this idiot: um, i think you'll notice your tweet cites mine, making mine the point of origin. i can buy people misquoting, but alien warehouse didn't do that and neither did samknight1 edit: i guess you can claim alien warehouse was wrong in saying she doesn't think the dems should pursue it when she says it's ok for states to pursue it, but I don't blame him for not bothering to acknowledge the paper-thin difference there Condiv fucked around with this message at 20:36 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 20:32
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in the future political scientists will name the political system of our generation tweetcracy: or rule by Twitter
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May 5, 2017 20:51
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SSNeoman posted:and your point is...? I can't speak for everyone else here, but you know what I'd like? For the Democrats to win. But for them to win, they're going to have to rebuild a coalition that has a chance of winning. Young professionals, LGBTQ people, and people of color aren't going to be enough to win anymore, I'm sorry to tell you.
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May 5, 2017 20:53
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That's a reasonable position. We should absolutely get Dems to push it in state level. It's a far cry from her saying "no I don't support single payer" Alienwarehouse posted:Thread title subject matter: Nancy Pelosi reaffirmed today that the Democratic Party has no plans to pursue single-payer when asked. like what this guy was trying to imply.
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May 5, 2017 21:18
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Condiv posted:but I don't blame him for not bothering to acknowledge the paper-thin difference there yeah because you have a dumb rear end agenda
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May 5, 2017 21:26
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SSNeoman posted:That's a reasonable position. We should absolutely get Dems to push it in state level. It's a far cry from her saying "no I don't support single payer" The Dems can, and should, do both. There is literally no reason not to include it in their platform, even if it doesn't have any hope of coming to pass soon, other than a vain hope of courting moderate suburban Republicans, ie: the Chuck Schumer pre-Nov. 2016 strategy.
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May 5, 2017 21:27
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guys don't you get it? when democratic pols say they don't support single payer they're just playing that nth dimensional chess game again don't worry, they're just saying the things you don't like so other people will vote for them, the fools, but all the things they say that you like they'll do once elected for sure and if they're not saying anything you like that's just because they're playing their cards close to their chest so don't worry about it point being you better vote democratic or you're a loving loser who doesn't understand american politics and probably has brain damage, you brain damaged idiot, you complete moron, vote for democrats you loving filth
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May 5, 2017 21:29
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Majorian posted:The Dems can, and should, do both. There is literally no reason not to include it in their platform, even if it doesn't have any hope of coming to pass soon, other than a vain hope of courting moderate suburban Republicans, ie: the Chuck Schumer pre-Nov. 2016 strategy.
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May 5, 2017 21:31
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Kilroy posted:guys don't you get it? This but unironically
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May 5, 2017 21:33
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Democrats running in heavily republican districts absolutely need to worry about pissing off moderate republicans. That's why candidates like Rob Quist and James Thompson don't campaign on single payer, even if they probably support it. So democrats putting it in the platform will either hurt them with voters (bad) or force them to disavow the platform (bad). Democrats are not going to turn deep red districts blue by running hard to the left. That's a fantasy.
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May 5, 2017 21:38
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Corey Robin on Facebook: So does Corey Robin think that religious people are unreachable and certain areas of the country are lost? I wrote these for the left wing media thread but I think they still holds weight (even though it has come out that the NYT/WaPo misrepresented the facts regarding Heath Mello and local activists were pissed at the national chapters for trampling the relationships they've built up - “I wish the national organizations would respect the relationship we have been nurturing, instead of just assuming we don’t know what we’re doing,” Jawed-Wessel told me afterward. “Then they might have reframed their statement in a way that added momentum to someone we consider a strong ally.”) Call Me Charlie posted:Personally, I think it's a really really bad idea to conflate abortion with women's healthcare since there's a large portion of the country that will forever oppose abortion and instantly turn into single-issue voters once the subject enters the conversation. And there's no way to soften them to it over time the way you could with previous causes (that I'm sure people will point to in a hurr-durr fashion) like desegregation, homosexuality, etc Call Me Charlie posted:It's not that it isn't worth the fight. It's that it's a political kiss of death in certain areas and you'll never be able to soften those people to that issue (abortion) Like, I wish them luck with trying to reframe abortion as an economic issue but I think we would have much more success in traditionally red areas putting proper sex education in place, expanding access to contraceptives and building a strong social net for unwanted babies to fall into. All of those are things you can gain support for over time.
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May 5, 2017 21:40
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JeffersonClay posted:Democrats running in heavily republican districts absolutely need to worry about pissing off moderate republicans. That's why candidates like Rob Quist and James Thompson don't campaign on single payer, even if they probably support it. So democrats putting it in the platform will either hurt them with voters (bad) or force them to disavow the platform (bad). Democrats are not going to turn deep red districts blue by running hard to the left. That's a fantasy. Rob Quist posted:“The whole health care thing, it was originally setup to be a single-payer system,” Quist said. “As we know the powerful forces, the pharmaceutical and insurance companies, they blocked that. Everybody should have a system like Medicare, where you walk in, show your card and you’re covered, no questions asked.” It's not in his platform but he did campaign on it.
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May 5, 2017 21:47
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JeffersonClay posted:Democrats running in heavily republican districts absolutely need to worry about pissing off moderate republicans. That's why candidates like Rob Quist and James Thompson don't campaign on single payer, even if they probably support it. So democrats putting it in the platform will either hurt them with voters (bad) or force them to disavow the platform (bad). Democrats are not going to turn deep red districts blue by running hard to the left. That's a fantasy. Moderates by definition oppose significant changes to the status quo, trying to appeal to them is pointless and I don't know why people adore the concept so much.
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May 5, 2017 21:46
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I mean I think we should translate Melenchon's message in France to an American context: that low turnout isn't just a rejection of policy but of the entire institutional system and we need a fundamental rewrite of how our government is constituted.
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May 5, 2017 21:47
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JeffersonClay posted:Democrats running in heavily republican districts absolutely need to worry about pissing off moderate republicans. That's why candidates like Rob Quist and James Thompson don't campaign on single payer, even if they probably support it. So democrats putting it in the platform will either hurt them with voters (bad) or force them to disavow the platform (bad). Democrats are not going to turn deep red districts blue by running hard to the left. That's a fantasy.  stop posting
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May 5, 2017 21:48
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I have a platform we can put Democrats on. It's got a little trapdoor in the middle of it. Would that be acceptable?
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May 5, 2017 21:50
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SSNeoman posted:That's a reasonable position. We should absolutely get Dems to push it in state level. It's a far cry from her saying "no I don't support single payer" no its not, its not viable for low population states so i guess they just have to sit and spin (and go bankrupt and die)
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May 5, 2017 21:51
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Dmitri-9 posted:It's not in his platform but he did campaign on it. And there's a strategic reason for that, which we would be ignoring by putting the issue in the national platform. Jabarto posted:Moderates by definition oppose significant changes to the status quo, trying to appeal to them is pointless and I don't know why people adore the concept so much. Dems running in red states want republicans to stay home, and proposing a radical change to the healthcare system will cause the exact opposite to occur.
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May 5, 2017 21:50
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I don't understand why there are so many Democrat centrist apologists in this thread who want the party to embrace the platform that Hillary already tried and failed at: attempting to bring in "moderate" or "centrist" Republicans... it clearly didn't work for her on top of everything else. Meanwhile the "socialist" Bernie had and continues to have immense popularity across the aisle, and yet the party needs to continue to move to the center and not to the left?
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May 5, 2017 21:50
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dox posted:I don't understand why there are so many Democrat centrist apologists in this thread who want the party to embrace the platform that Hillary already tried and failed at: attempting to bring in "moderate" or "centrist" Republicans... it clearly didn't work for her on top of everything else. Meanwhile the "socialist" Bernie had and continues to have immense popularity across the aisle, and yet the party needs to continue to move to the center and not to the left? centrism cannot fail it can only be failed
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May 5, 2017 21:52
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dox posted:I don't understand why there are so many Democrat centrist apologists in this thread who want the party to embrace the platform that Hillary already tried and failed at: attempting to bring in "moderate" or "centrist" Republicans... it clearly didn't work for her on top of everything else. Meanwhile the "socialist" Bernie had and continues to have immense popularity across the aisle, and yet the party needs to continue to move to the center and not to the left? There aren't, it's really mostly jefferson clay at this point.
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May 5, 2017 21:52
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Jabarto posted:Moderates by definition oppose significant changes to the status quo, trying to appeal to them is pointless and I don't know why people adore the concept so much. It's more important to JeffersonClay that Democrats win elections, than they win with a mandate to actually enact left-of-center policies. He'd fill the party with John McCains if he thought they could win. He doesn't give a gently caress about policy, just "winning". Which is weird because he's presumably not a Democratic politician. And then of course his boneheaded ideas have been categorically proven not to work for winning elections, in a most dramatic fashion. So he's not just a spineless poo poo with no vision for his party or the nation, but also breathtakingly stupid.
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May 5, 2017 21:54
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SSNeoman posted:That's a reasonable position. We should absolutely get Dems to push it in state level. It's a far cry from her saying "no I don't support single payer" i don't really see how that's far off? state by state singlepayer is both less efficient and less likely to succeed than a national push? plus, it means she doesn't have to fight for it at all, which is an odd position for a singlepayer supporter to take. finally, i've never seen any evidence she would actually support a massive increase in the social safety net that singlepayer would entail. she's certainly shown support for gutting the safety net by whipping and voting for obama's grand bargain.
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May 5, 2017 21:55
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JeffersonClay posted:Dems running in red states want republicans to stay home, and proposing a radical change to the healthcare system will cause the exact opposite to occur. Have you been keeping up on current events? Heard about this AHCA thing? Just curious.
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May 5, 2017 21:57
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It's not about getting moderate republicans to flip, it's about not giving republicans red meat to energize their base with. Single payer should be part of democratic campaigns in purple and blue districts, but it won't help in red ones. Single payer will energize both the democratic and republican base, that's only a good thing in districts where the latter doesn't dwarf the former.Dr. Fishopolis posted:Have you been keeping up on current events? Heard about this AHCA thing? Just curious. Think about it like this. What's going to be a better debate for democrats in red districts-- I'll oppose Trump's massively unpopular healthcare change, or I'll bring you the socialism you've been waiting for? If you earnestly believe it's the latter, you're deluded. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 22:00 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 21:56
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"Democrats should just campaign really quietly in red states, almost like they're not a candidate at all, and hope Republican voters - and hopefully some Republican candidates - forget there was an election that day." - JeffersonClay, Twat
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May 5, 2017 21:57
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gerrymandering is just this fun thing that politicians do for funsies it doesn't really mean anything
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May 5, 2017 21:59
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If you don't give Republicans "red meat" they'll just mix some sawdust and animal fat together instead, and call it red meat. You illiterate poo poo. You inconceivable horse's rear end in a top hat.
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May 5, 2017 21:59
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JeffersonClay posted:Think about it like this. What's going to be a better debate for democrats in red districts-- I'll oppose Trump's massively unpopular healthcare change, or I'll bring you the socialism you've been waiting for? If you earnestly believe it's the latter, you're deluded.
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May 5, 2017 22:03
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Kilroy posted:If you don't give Republicans "red meat" they'll just mix some sawdust and animal fat together instead, and call it red meat. You illiterate poo poo. You inconceivable horse's rear end in a top hat. rest in peace ACORN
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May 5, 2017 22:04
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JeffersonClay posted:It's not about getting moderate republicans to flip, it's about not giving republicans red meat to energize their base with. Single payer should be part of democratic campaigns in purple and blue districts, but it won't help in red ones. Single payer will energize both the democratic and republican base, that's only a good thing in districts where the latter doesn't dwarf the former. less than a year ago you were telling us that no-one was waiting for socialism. are you sure you're the one who's not deluded? you seem to be relying on the same old conventional wisdom that has seen the dems become increasingly absent from most state governments
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May 5, 2017 22:02
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nice meltdown kilory. You reject the entire history of the southern strategy
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May 5, 2017 22:03
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JeffersonClay posted:Think about it like this. What's going to be a better debate for democrats in red districts-- I'll oppose Trump's massively unpopular healthcare change, or I'll bring you the socialism you've been waiting for? If you earnestly believe it's the latter, you're deluded. Opposition without any kind of viable alternative is obviously not a workable strategy. What's the plan, defend obamacare? That's going to go great down in Dumbfuck Creek, AL.
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May 5, 2017 22:04
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Brother Entropy posted:rest in peace ACORN dems kinda abandoned ACORN like scared little babies though. a bunch of them backed legislation to remove funding from acorn of course attacks succeed when the defending side gives up
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May 5, 2017 22:04
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"It's a good idea for Democrats in the wake of the AHCA and the deaths it will cause, to craft a policy platform which avoids any concrete solutions for the carnage the GOP bill will wreak upon the population." JeffersonClay, Mouthbreather
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May 5, 2017 22:04
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