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Serotonin posted:Im sorry for your loss. They've still got one seat though and if you ask very nicely Nige might come back. gently caress off you oval office. Yet another 'Oh you have to be a racist because you think Corbyns poo poo'.
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May 6, 2017 07:57
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Corbyn supporters are very good at telling people to gently caress off and vote for someone else.
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May 6, 2017 07:59
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Ewan posted:https://excelpope.wordpress.com/2017/05/05/rant/ Very well constructed argument. Its also been clearly demonstrated on here over the past 36 hours where the extreme devout Cobynistas don't seem to want a political party they want a mouthpiece. Its really worrying, as their actions are going to indirectly cause a lot of people to die.
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May 6, 2017 07:59
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Corbyn is poo poo and no amount of apologising us going to disguise his gross incompetence and inability to lead an effective opposition that might be capable of actually running a country. The polls coming back saying Theresa May is a better PM are coming back like that not because there's not a sudden surge in conservatism. They're coming back like that because Corbyn is not Prime Minister material and everyone knows it. Communist Bear fucked around with this message at 08:07 on May 6, 2017 |
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May 6, 2017 08:03
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You know, you could just hold your nose and vote for Labour, even if you disagree with Corbyn's policies.  You don't want the Conservatives to win, do you??
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May 6, 2017 08:02
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WMain00 posted:
Agreed. It's been there for the last 30years.
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May 6, 2017 08:06
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Dammit I'm on my phone. I mean there's not a sudden surge.
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May 6, 2017 08:06
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Pissflaps posted:Corbyn supporters are very good at telling people to gently caress off and vote for someone else. Now the British people are all doing it. The far left is an anti-Labour movement.
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May 6, 2017 08:11
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hakimashou posted:
Good job the Labour party aren't far left then, you Nazi gently caress.
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May 6, 2017 08:10
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Serotonin posted:Agreed. It's been there for the last 30years. Corbynista '15 - "Jeremy will win back Scotland, rejuvenate the Labour heartland, and energize non-voters with a new kind of politics!" Corbynista '17- "We always planned to lose catastrophically, Death to Labour, Death to Britain, Long Live Corbyn"
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May 6, 2017 08:12
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Grapplejack posted:You know, you could just hold your nose and vote for Labour, even if you disagree with Corbyn's policies. most people in this topic who aren't massive fans of Corbyn are still voting Labour and have more of a problem with his incompetence than his policies.
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May 6, 2017 08:15
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It baffles me no end when frustrated Corbynites throw their rattles out of the pram, declaring democracy itself to be the problem and the only solution to be 'violent revolution'. Who, exactly, is going to be doing it? The working classes are all voting Tory.
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May 6, 2017 08:14
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serious gaylord posted:I genuinely couldn't even imagine it would be this bad. Some funky numbers here. How can the SNP have won 425 council seats in 2012, and have 431 yesterday, if -7 means they lost 7 seats? Surely it should be +6? 
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May 6, 2017 08:19
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It's as bad as those who think that the lurch to the right by all levels of society is an issue entirely down to one man. A sacrificial lamb who once slaughtered will bring us back to the 'moderate' centre 'non-loony' ground.
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May 6, 2017 08:21
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i think the tories might be extremely popular
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May 6, 2017 08:21
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BigHandsVince posted:Some funky numbers here. Boundary changes since 2012
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May 6, 2017 08:22
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i think brexit might be extremely popular
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May 6, 2017 08:23
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Grapplejack posted:You know, you could just hold your nose and vote for Labour, even if you disagree with Corbyn's policies. I don't want an incompetent administration with a man with no experience running the country either. Funny I know, as I realise the Conservatives are hardly the bastion of competency in affairs at the moment, but a Labour administration at the moment would be disastrous. What exactly do you think would happen in the hypothetical situation that Corbyn actually won? His cabinet are a mix of bumbling fools, frustrated assassins or yes-men, none capable or concentrating on the aspect of actually leading a country. Do you think they're just suddenly going to spring to action overnight? Go "Oh well you won us the country Corbyn, all is forgiven." They're a disorganised mess and they'd remain a disorganised mess even if they were in control. The knifes would still be out for Corbyn, the PLP would still be scheming behind the scenes and the party would still be internally fighting with each other. The swords might go away, but it would be back to the dark arts of politics, of which Corbyn has no experience. Not only that, but he'd have to contend with Tory or SNP led councils, dwindling party numbers, a budget that neither he nor McDonnell have any knowledge of challenging and the mounting issue of leaving the EU, which will not wait while Labour tries to sort itself out. I hate to say this, because it's been said before, but the man is a very nice chap, but he cannot possibly be Prime Minister, nor should he.
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May 6, 2017 08:26
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You know, the whole "Corbynista" thing is directly the PLP's fault, when you think about it. They didn't realize that people wanted genuine change from failing liberal sameness, and then when people flocked to the first genuine leftist choice they fought it tooth and nail instead of trying to deal with it. Of course the people who back Corbyn are super defensive about it! If Corbyn is ousted, the PLP have made sure everyone knows it's going to be back to politics as usual as soon as they can arrange it. The PLP has created this situation in what can only be described as an incredible act of Political Seppuku. The UK seems pretty doomed.
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May 6, 2017 08:27
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MonsieurChoc posted:You know, the whole "Corbynista" thing is directly the PLP's fault, when you think about it. They didn't realize that people wanted genuine change from failing liberal sameness, and then when people flocked to the first genuine leftist choice they fought it tooth and nail instead of trying to deal with it. Of course the people who back Corbyn are super defensive about it! If Corbyn is ousted, the PLP have made sure everyone knows it's going to be back to politics as usual as soon as they can arrange it. The PLP has created this situation in what can only be described as an incredible act of Political Seppuku. Pretty much, alas.
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May 6, 2017 08:30
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MonsieurChoc posted:You know, the whole "Corbynista" thing is directly the PLP's fault, when you think about it. They didn't realize that people wanted genuine change from failing liberal sameness, and then when people flocked to the first genuine leftist choice they fought it tooth and nail instead of trying to deal with it. Of course the people who back Corbyn are super defensive about it! If Corbyn is ousted, the PLP have made sure everyone knows it's going to be back to politics as usual as soon as they can arrange it. The PLP has created this situation in what can only be described as an incredible act of Political Seppuku. I wonder if more people would have been more receptive to a new leader last year and treated the resignations from the shadow cabinet more seriously if there weren't a bunch of resignations and constant briefing against him from the moment he was elected?
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May 6, 2017 08:35
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Party Boat posted:Boundary changes since 2012 That's what I thought. Still makes no sense. According to https://news.gov.scot/news/council-ward-boundaries-agreed The total number of seats increased from 1223 to 1227, so it still doesn't make sense that they have 6 more seats than last time, but this is treated as a -7 loss. BBC impartiality at work I guess.
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May 6, 2017 08:35
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two years ago today we reached the pinnacle of hard hitting serious journalism never forget
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May 6, 2017 08:37
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Rip Ed. If only you hadn't played by the media's rules you could have won. Your loss is Jeremy's gain.
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May 6, 2017 08:40
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MonsieurChoc posted:You know, the whole "Corbynista" thing is directly the PLP's fault, when you think about it. They didn't realize that people wanted genuine change from failing liberal sameness, and then when people flocked to the first genuine leftist choice they fought it tooth and nail instead of trying to deal with it. Of course the people who back Corbyn are super defensive about it! If Corbyn is ousted, the PLP have made sure everyone knows it's going to be back to politics as usual as soon as they can arrange it. The PLP has created this situation in what can only be described as an incredible act of Political Seppuku. How many spots is "PLP!!!!" worth in corbynista shift-the-blame bingo?
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May 6, 2017 08:42
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Ewan posted:I think this is probably quite a common sentiment. quote:He’s incompetent. Massively, massively incompetent. He can’t do a no-seats-on-the-train stunt without falling flat on his face. The Tories are so good at incompetence that people don't even see it as such any more and just call it 'politics'. quote:He doesn’t want to. He’s spent his entire adult life fighting the establishment and fighting against his own party, and when he is the establishment all that’s left for him to fight against is his party. quote:He won’t win anyway. quote:You’re a hypocrite. Because if you’d wanted to keep the Tories out you’d have backed away when it became clear he wasn’t going to be any good at the job.
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May 6, 2017 08:52
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WMain00 posted:I don't want an incompetent administration with a man with no experience running the country either. Funny I know, as I realise the Conservatives are hardly the bastion of competency in affairs at the moment, but a Labour administration at the moment would be disastrous. I'm just having a laugh at the idea that "hold your nose" only counts if you're going right and not left. But yeah Labour as a party is hosed, even if you replace Corbyn the issues between the party proper and the base are pretty bad at this point, not to mention leaving the EU has made UKIP leave their single-issue party and go back to voting for the Conservatives.
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May 6, 2017 08:56
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Regarde Aduck posted:What loonies? The 'far left' of Labour want the NHS protecting, more houses and, worker rights and a fairer society. They're not after full communism. The far left is currently seems to be defined mainly by the fact that they don't accept that anyone else in the Labour Party wants any of that. I don't see anything there a pre-Iraq Blair wouldn't have signed up to. Which means that if Blairites are evil scum, then the 'far left' are basically just conflicted about actually being New Labour for slow learners. radmonger fucked around with this message at 09:09 on May 6, 2017 |
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May 6, 2017 09:03
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BigHandsVince posted:That's what I thought. Still makes no sense. It depends how new / merged seats are treated I guess but I can't follow how they've got there either. The Guardian's summary seems to treat every changed seat as a brand new one which means the SNP go from a base of 400 to 431. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/may/04/local-and-mayoral-elections-2017-live-results-tracker Just found this: BBC politics posted:In some councils, boundary changes take place where councils are re-organised and the number of seats on the council changes. Party Boat fucked around with this message at 09:09 on May 6, 2017 |
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May 6, 2017 09:04
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Ewan posted:https://excelpope.wordpress.com/2017/05/05/rant/ "I may have spent every minute since Corbyn was elected trying to detract from him/mock his supporters, but now I really mean it!" Sure. Truly the people responsible for the way things are in this country are not the ones who voted for it, they are blameless. The true villains are the ones who didn't vote for more neoliberalism.
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May 6, 2017 09:11
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TACD posted:Corbyn messes up PR stunts, while the Tories mess up political maneuvering on a scale that's now taking us out of the EU and risks breaking up the Union. Diane Abbott gets her numbers wrong on the radio and is excoriated while Boris Johnson parades around for months in front of a bus with an eight-foot-high lie printed on it but basically gets away with it. And I'm sorry, Diane Abbot's gently caress up was a gently caress up of epic proportions it wasn't just "getting her numbers wrong". You had the shadow home secretary on the radio during campaign season effectively announcing a new policy. In the backdrop of a campaign where one of the largest criticisms of Labour is "none of their policies are costed / they don't know what they're doing". Then when asked the single most important and obvious question (what will it cost?) she gets it horrendously wrong, over and over again. How can you expect this woman to be able to be the Home Secretary, where she has to deal with immigration, police, counter-terrorism on a daily basis? These are arguably some of the most important things people care about.
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May 6, 2017 09:13
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WMain00 posted:I don't want an incompetent administration with a man with no experience running the country either. Funny I know, as I realise the Conservatives are hardly the bastion of competency in affairs at the moment, but a Labour administration at the moment would be disastrous. Nice hypotheticals, but the only way to know if Korbyn's Krew would be poo poo in government would be to see them in government. Otherwise, all you've got is a press (and a PLP) determined to seize on every mistake made by Corbyn as evidence of how poo poo he is. You say Corbyn can't control his party, well, half of the reason May is calling an election now is that she can't control enough of her backbenchers to govern effectively, costing the country ~£125m in the process. You say Corbyn has no experience of the "dark arts of politics", well, neither do the Tories, if Boris and Gove's - two of the most high-profile, well-regarded (by the press anyway, lol) Tory MPs - leadership campaigns were anything to go by. You say Corbyn and McDonnell have no knowledge of challenging the budget, but the Tories - on an election pledge of reducing the deficit - borrowed more public money than EVERY SINGLE LABOUR GOVERNMENT EVER, COMBINED - and the deficit is still set to rise again next year, even while the economy continues to gurgle and poo poo itself in the gutter. And even on the PR side of things, let's not forget that even loving Sky News took the time to put together a vignette of May having a disastrous door-knocking session. Bad PR is everywhere, not just within Labour.
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May 6, 2017 09:13
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The fault isn't just Corbyn's, it's the fault of the people and unions who voted him into leadership and continued to support him despite his clear unsuitability.
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May 6, 2017 09:13
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knox_harrington posted:The fault isn't just Corbyn's, it's the fault of the people and unions who voted him into leadership and continued to support him despite his clear unsuitability. They should have elected Owen Smith or Angela Eagle? They would have beaten the Tories into submission for sure.
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May 6, 2017 09:14
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kingturnip posted:Bad PR is everywhere, not just within Labour. Yeah but you can't attack Corbyn's Labour on policy because the policy is moderatly okay left of centre stuff. You've got to attack them on PR and image.
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May 6, 2017 09:16
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Oberleutnant posted:Yeah but you can't attack Corbyn's Labour on policy because the policy is moderatly okay left of centre stuff. You've got to attack them on PR and image.
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May 6, 2017 09:21
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Ewan posted:You missed one, possibly the most important. Their policies might be good, but it's no good if they're so incompetent they can't implement them without loving up. That is the perception most people have - and frankly you can't say it's not true because there is no evidence (equally you can't say it is true either). its really good they chose the extremely competent Owen Smith as the most recent corbyn challenger
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May 6, 2017 09:23
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We also have to rememember fault is not a zero sum game. Multiple people and factors are at fault. Is it the fault of the media for disproportionately attacking Corbyn? Yes Is it the fault of the PLP and their constant backstabbing and attempts to undermine? Yes But Is it also the fault of the Corbynistas carrying a "holier than thou" attitude and telling anyone who doesn't agree to gently caress off and go vote Tory? Yes Is it also the fault of Corbyn and his team over and over again loving up the simplest of PR/media skills? Yes Is it also the fault of his Cabinet constantly loving up, cross briefing, back-tracking, etc? Yes On the Corbynista attitude one, it is one that annoys me a lot. Their reaction to people suggesting Labour would better off more centrist or that they'd "never vote Corbyn PM" is to say "gently caress off Blairite/neoliberal/Tory scum", rather than trying to understand why they think that way, and come up with ideas to win them over rather than just telling them they're thick/evil cunts. You have to remember 95% of the population doesn't have a clue what "neoliberal" means, don't have a clue what being a "Blairite" is, doesn't have a clue about the Tory's vision for privatised/corporate-run Britain, doesn't have a clue other than you can pick between some well-spoken competent-looking men and women in suits and a ragtag bunch of jokers who gently caress up at every corner. You don't win these voters over by calling them names.
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May 6, 2017 09:27
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Stop loving pretending that you would have voted for a socialist and that all the bad PR is anything but a convenient smokescreen for you all.
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May 6, 2017 09:30
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Jose posted:its really good they chose the extremely competent Owen Smith as the most recent corbyn challenger
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May 6, 2017 09:29
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