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I'm not sure why people who don't like May bring up the fact that she campaigned for remain? Sucking it up and respecting that the majority won the vote, and proactively working to get the least poo poo deal instead of bitching about it does play very well with most voters.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:30 |
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# ? May 17, 2024 13:09 |
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Serotonin posted:Stop loving pretending that you would have voted for a socialist and that all the bad PR is anything but a convenient smokescreen for you all. 'Heh, you wouldnt have voted for labour anyway you big bunch of racists' he says to the lifelong labour voters.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:30 |
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Ewan posted:Other people also being incompetent does not suddenly make Corbyn & co competent. everyone else would have been making these gently caress ups because labour in general are a shambles
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:33 |
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I was with Corbyn up until the 3 line whip for article 50 which demonstrated a complete and total moment of idiocy on his behalf that there was no coming back from.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:32 |
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serious gaylord posted:'Heh, you wouldnt have voted for labour anyway you big bunch of racists' he says to the lifelong labour voters. Don't make me post the mug picture. Labour have not been a socialist party since 1997 and arguably weren't under Kinnock either.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:32 |
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John McDonnell gets bigger Labour role after local election failures https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/05/john-mcdonnell-gets-bigger-labour-role-after-local-election-failures Time to double down! Fuuuck
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:33 |
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Ewan posted:We also have to rememember fault is not a zero sum game. Multiple people and factors are at fault. It is ultimately the fault of one man, Jeremy Corbyn, for not resigning after the brexit referendum. His choice to cling to power after it became untenable is the source of the Labour party's ills.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:34 |
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Ewan posted:We also have to rememember fault is not a zero sum game. Multiple people and factors are at fault. You realise this is an internet forum and not your doorstep, right? No one is here to convince you of anything, nor are they obliged to try. The simple fact that you are here means you are politically aware enough that you know the arguments for and against Corbyn/the Tories and can act like a big boy and make your own mind up. Playing some ridiculous game where if only people had been nicer to you then you might have voted Labour is bullshit, vote for who you want and take responsibility for you own lovely views.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:35 |
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Ewan posted:You missed one, possibly the most important. Their policies might be good, but it's no good if they're so incompetent they can't implement them without loving up. That is the perception most people have - and frankly you can't say it's not true because there is no evidence (equally you can't say it is true either).
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:37 |
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Ewan posted:On the Corbynista attitude one, it is one that annoys me a lot. Their reaction to people suggesting Labour would better off more centrist or that they'd "never vote Corbyn PM" is to say "gently caress off Blairite/neoliberal/Tory scum", rather than trying to understand why they think that way, and come up with ideas to win them over rather than just telling them they're thick/evil cunts. You have to remember 95% of the population doesn't have a clue what "neoliberal" means, don't have a clue what being a "Blairite" is, doesn't have a clue about the Tory's vision for privatised/corporate-run Britain, doesn't have a clue other than you can pick between some well-spoken competent-looking men and women in suits and a ragtag bunch of jokers who gently caress up at every corner. You don't win these voters over by calling them names. 'Corbynistas' have spent years being told to hold their nose and vote Blair/Brown/Milliband. How odd they get defensive when the shoe's on the other foot.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:39 |
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Crashbee posted:'Corbynistas' have spent years being told to hold their nose and vote Blair/Brown/Milliband. How odd they get defensive when the shoe's on the other foot. Jeremy Corbyn is no Tony Blair.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:38 |
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jabby posted:You realise this is an internet forum and not your doorstep, right? No one is here to convince you of anything, nor are they obliged to try. The simple fact that you are here means you are politically aware enough that you know the arguments for and against Corbyn/the Tories and can act like a big boy and make your own mind up. Playing some ridiculous game where if only people had been nicer to you then you might have voted Labour is bullshit, vote for who you want and take responsibility for you own lovely views.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:39 |
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hakimashou posted:Jeremy Corbyn is no Tony Blair. That sound was the point flying over your head. It's hypocritical to tell leftists they have to shut up and vote Labour even if they don't like the leader, and then refuse to vote Labour when there's a leader they don't like.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:42 |
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Seaside Loafer posted:They dont implement the policy, they make it.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:41 |
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I'd rather have the country run by a well-intentioned but somewhat hapless government than one which is openly malevolent and
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:41 |
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Ewan posted:lol way to completely miss the point I'm not talking about UKMT/SA or anything at all relating to my own voting stance. Oh OK, please give me some examples of Corbyn supporters knocking on the doors of ordinary voters and then telling them to gently caress off because they're Tory scum. Because it sure seems like you are whinging about stuff that happens in this thread, not on the campaign trail.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:41 |
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Crashbee posted:'Corbynistas' have spent years being told to hold their nose and vote Blair/Brown/Milliband. How odd they get defensive when the shoe's on the other foot. I'm going to how you put it 'hold my nose' and vote labour in the general election. Given the results of the locals, theres a huge majority who won't. Also I would question your first point entirely, since most corbynistas in here held there noses by voting lib dem and green previously.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:41 |
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Serotonin posted:Stop loving pretending that you would have voted for a socialist and that all the bad PR is anything but a convenient smokescreen for you all. I thought Corbyn was supposed to be a Nordic style centre left social democrat?
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:44 |
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serious gaylord posted:I'm going to how you put it 'hold my nose' and vote labour in the general election. Given the results of the locals, theres a huge majority who won't. Also I would question your first point entirely, since most corbynistas in here held there noses by voting lib dem and green previously. Some have never voted labour
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:44 |
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serious gaylord posted:Also I would question your first point entirely, since most corbynistas in here held there noses by voting lib dem and green previously. He says to the lifelong Labour voters *faaaaart*
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:45 |
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Crashbee posted:That sound was the point flying over your head. It's hypocritical to tell leftists they have to shut up and vote Labour even if they don't like the leader, and then refuse to vote Labour when there's a leader they don't like.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:44 |
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Praseodymi posted:He says to the lifelong Labour voters *faaaaart* Not sure how many Corbynites itt are lifelong labour voters.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:46 |
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serious gaylord posted:I was with Corbyn up until the 3 line whip for article 50 which demonstrated a complete and total moment of idiocy on his behalf that there was no coming back from. I'm with you on this but probably(?) for different reasons. If he had some political nous he'd have allowed a free vote, which would have left a lot of his most vocal critics in a very nasty position as they represent safe Labour seats that went strongly Leave. Whipping for it was pointless both on a national political scale and also in the context of internal party politics.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:48 |
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I'm with you on this but probably(?) for different reasons. If he had some political nous he'd have allowed a free vote, which would have left a lot of his most vocal critics in a very nasty position as they represent safe Labour seats that went strongly Leave. Whipping for it was pointless both on a national political scale and also in the context of internal party politics. No your reason is exactly the same as mine. A free vote would have solved all the headaches, allowed his MP's from ridiculously huge remain % seats the safe option while still keeping labour positioned well enough that they 'are not blocking' brexit as a party. Chasing the ukips while spiting your city center safe seats was a step to far for me.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:51 |
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Baron Corbyn posted:congratulations on being so politically unaware that you can't tell the difference between a presidential election conducted under a run off system and a first past the post parliamentary election. En Marche! was formed just over a year ago and Tory tactics for this election are obviously at attempt turn it into a presidential style election. Yes, the outcome will be decided by FPTP, well done, now if only there was a bunch of unhappy incumbents who had no confidence in Corbyn who thought they'd nothing much to lose.
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# ? May 6, 2017 09:56 |
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Ewan posted:On the Corbynista attitude one, it is one that annoys me a lot. Their reaction to people suggesting Labour would better off more centrist or that they'd "never vote Corbyn PM" is to say "gently caress off Blairite/neoliberal/Tory scum", rather than trying to understand why they think that way, and come up with ideas to win them over rather than just telling them they're thick/evil cunts. quote:You’re a hypocrite. Because if you’d wanted to keep the Tories out you’d have backed away when it became clear he wasn’t going to be any good at the job.
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# ? May 6, 2017 10:02 |
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I think the three line whip on brexit was a mistake, but I can still see the reasoning for it especially when we see the losses labour just took in the locals in heavily brexit areas. Also I still lol every time people treat Corbyn fans as if were some Kim jong il style personality cult. He's obviously not good at PR and isn't a good political operator, but the most important thing right now is maintaining an actual left direction for the party, otherwise we end up and in the situation we see in the US and all over Europe where centre left parties are refusing to move from the centre. People just didn't and don't trust Cooper, Eagle and Smith to do that.
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# ? May 6, 2017 10:03 |
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TACD posted:Corbyn messes up PR stunts, while the Tories mess up political maneuvering on a scale that's now taking us out of the EU and risks breaking up the Union. Diane Abbott gets her numbers wrong on the radio and is excoriated while Boris Johnson parades around for months in front of a bus with an eight-foot-high lie printed on it but basically gets away with it. My favourite part is when a Conservative prime minister offered a referendum as a magic bullet to silence his backbenchers, only to watch it backfire horribly and take the country back in time 40 years. Then when a Labour leader overwhelmingly defeats a challenge to his leadership, he's the one the papers call 'incompetent'. But yes it's clearly Labour that are the danger here. Not that party that fucks up the UK for decades over an internal power struggle, no.
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# ? May 6, 2017 10:04 |
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AP posted:En Marche! was formed just over a year ago and Tory tactics for this election are obviously at attempt turn it into a presidential style election. Yes, the outcome will be decided by FPTP, well done, now if only there was a bunch of unhappy incumbents who had no confidence in Corbyn who thought they'd nothing much to lose. they'd split the left vote between themselves and Labour candidates? The point about it being a presidential run off vs FPTP was to help you realise that the circumstances that allowed Macron to sneak his way into the second round and in fact aided and abetted by left wing splitters.
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# ? May 6, 2017 10:05 |
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AP posted:En Marche! was formed just over a year ago and Tory tactics for this election are obviously at attempt turn it into a presidential style election. Yes, the outcome will be decided by FPTP, well done, now if only there was a bunch of unhappy incumbents who had no confidence in Corbyn who thought they'd nothing much to lose. The only reason macron might win is he going head to head with a *literal fascist*. He wants to do this by telling everyone they need to work longer hours and that deregulation and privatisation are the way forward. These are all the things that have got us to where we are now, I'm totally baffles how anyone can look at this and think "yes, this is what we need more of."
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# ? May 6, 2017 10:07 |
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TACD posted:You literally just minutes ago posted a link to a rant where the author tells Corbyn voters to gently caress off without trying to understand why they voted for him.
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# ? May 6, 2017 10:09 |
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https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/860618541481046016 "All Tory voters are racist!" "See this is why Labour can't make progress"
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# ? May 6, 2017 10:12 |
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Posting all the Twitter links you've saved in response to a query about things that happen "on the campaign trail" suggests you're not arguing in good faith.Ewan posted:He says "gently caress you for ruining Labour's chances". He doesn't tell them to gently caress off and go vote for a different party. TACD fucked around with this message at 10:16 on May 6, 2017 |
# ? May 6, 2017 10:11 |
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TACD posted:Is this an important distinction? Are people only voting Conservative because a Corbyn supporter told them to?
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# ? May 6, 2017 10:16 |
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xtothez posted:My favourite part is when a Conservative prime minister offered a referendum as a magic bullet to silence his backbenchers, only to watch it backfire horribly and take the country back in time 40 years. Then when a Labour leader overwhelmingly defeats a challenge to his leadership, he's the one the papers call 'incompetent'. Holy gently caress it's xtothez! I've missed you, friend.
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# ? May 6, 2017 10:18 |
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MikeCrotch posted:The only reason macron might win is he going head to head with a *literal fascist*. He wants to do this by telling everyone they need to work longer hours and that deregulation and privatisation are the way forward. These are all the things that have got us to where we are now, I'm totally baffles how anyone can look at this and think "yes, this is what we need more of."
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# ? May 6, 2017 10:21 |
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LemonDrizzle posted:I think you are a bit confused about why he's likely to win. He's likely to win because he won the largest share of the vote in the first round, and because second round polls had him winning >60% of the vote against every possible challenger, including the left wing candidate Mélenchon. its cool how he's going to be able to do gently caress all when he wins
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# ? May 6, 2017 10:20 |
I think the reality is Labour is going to split, forming into a Socialist Workers Party led by Corbyn and a centralist New Labour party. I wouldn't be surprised if Corbyn didn't resign after the General Election and this occurred instead.
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# ? May 6, 2017 10:22 |
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# ? May 17, 2024 13:09 |
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The vast majority of the Western world completely buys the lie that the "free market", "deregulation" and "full Capitalism" are all for the benefit of everyone because they are all associated with the "freedom" we have all been brought up worshipping. Macron aligns with this view.
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# ? May 6, 2017 10:23 |