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The AI can't handle 1v1s, full stop. If you're testing with them, you're loving up. It is expected that if poo poo goes so bad that it would need to you would either take control or order a retreat.
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May 7, 2017 07:55
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 This little frigate can kill some cruisers by headbutting them and applying superior firepower and flux. The Luddic Path are all right with me.
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May 7, 2017 08:01
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dis astranagant posted:The AI can't handle 1v1s, full stop. If you're testing with them, you're loving up. It is expected that if poo poo goes so bad that it would need to you would either take control or order a retreat. Huh... Honestly the fact how much this game gets talked up, along with how well they (usually) handle bullshit maneuvers made me kind of refuse to accept that they are just too moronic to follow the most basic order in the game of "Shoot it until it dies". But if them being idiots who would prefer to point their engines at their kill target rather than their nose guns is "Working as intended, YOU are the gently caress up"" I guess I can finally move on to other ideas. I do want me more Hedge kites though. They are adorable and low maintenance enough that I don't care about fielding them just for the hell of it 
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May 7, 2017 08:05
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The AI is just terrible when you go into the simulator and hand over control. Simulating a different ship then pulling in the one you really want to test as an ally and observing from afar seems to markedly improve results. Perhaps it’s a bug.
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May 7, 2017 08:16
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Section Z posted:Huh... Honestly the fact how much this game gets talked up, along with how well they (usually) handle bullshit maneuvers made me kind of refuse to accept that they are just too moronic to follow the most basic order in the game of "Shoot it until it dies". The ai is designed to work reasonably competently in fleet scenarios given the ridiculous variety of configurations it can find itself in. It does some boneheaded poo poo from time to time (especially when micromanaged) but it'll also do some fairly clever moves given enough ships to move around. It's risk adverse to a fault because for every one of us bitching about it not taking the chances it gets (I'm on your side, I'm just explaining the poo poo I've had to figure out over the years) there's 2 that will scream bloody murder any time the ai gets itself killed overcommitting. Decisive action is left to the player. In a 1v1 everything carries risk so the ai often chooses to do nothing but prevent the other guy from attacking as best it can.
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May 7, 2017 08:16
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The AI isn't too bad with cruiser+ 1v1s. Still a little too timid. I've been able to kite Odysseys and Conquests with an Eagle and hypervelocity driver plus two heavy needlers. With so much OP on weapons its shields can be overwhelmed pretty easily - especially since it's a lot harder for humans to time when to bring down shields to avoid overload - but the AI is reluctant to take advantage. Having said that it's usually good at defense except for letting through kinetics that are just outside of their nominal range. Or try a 1v1 against the onslaught with annihilator rocket pods. It can fire the thermal cannons and rockets all at once, overwhelming even another onslaught. Humans can't really do that unless they put them both in the same weapon group or constantly toggle between them. Precambrian Video Games fucked around with this message at 08:26 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 08:18
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You also have to consider that this is a bit of heroic fiction. The ai jumping on a big risk to tear you up in a close battle just isn't the narrative being pushed. You don't get to be the one man who starting with bugger all carves out his own space empire out from under heavily entrenched existing factions with the game being fair to those existing players. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 08:30 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 08:24
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eXXon posted:Or try a 1v1 against the onslaught with annihilator rocket pods. It can fire the thermal cannons and rockets all at once, overwhelming even another onslaught. Humans can't really do that unless they put them both in the same weapon group or constantly toggle between them. Separate groups, one or both on auto. You, too, can have this amazing ability.
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May 7, 2017 08:32
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dis astranagant posted:The ai is designed to work reasonably competently in fleet scenarios given the ridiculous variety of configurations it can find itself in. It does some boneheaded poo poo from time to time (especially when micromanaged) but it'll also do some fairly clever moves given enough ships to move around. It's risk adverse to a fault because for every one of us bitching about it not taking the chances it gets (I'm on your side, I'm just explaining the poo poo I've had to figure out over the years) there's 2 that will scream bloody murder any time the ai gets itself killed overcommitting. Decisive action is left to the player. In a 1v1 everything carries risk so the ai often chooses to do nothing but prevent the other guy from attacking as best it can. Oh, definitely. All my frustration with more specific stuff is based on how GREAT the AI works overall for the average gameplay. As it essentially carried me in the really early game, I can easily understand an AI that prefers caution for efficiency in the long run. The sticking point for me has been how drastically the AI goes from "Man, I'm jealous of their piloting skill  ", straight past not being "good", into baffling decisions like "Attack = expose your engines to the enemy as a preference".eXXon posted:Or try a 1v1 against the onslaught with annihilator rocket pods. It can fire the thermal cannons and rockets all at once, overwhelming even another onslaught. Humans can't really do that unless they put them both in the same weapon group or constantly toggle between them.  " that much more jarring.dis astranagant posted:You also have to consider that this is a bit of heroic fiction. The ai jumping on a big risk to tear you up in a close battle just isn't the narrative being pushed. If the Dev want's Easy mode to give an actual tangible difference in combat not wholly negated once you have a fleet of ships to choose from, an enemy RANGE penalty would be what to go for. But I have no idea where any of all this leads into "This isn't some power fantasy". Where the hell does kicking over Tri-Tach and moving into their factories come into just wanting ships to follow "Kill that dude" orders. Or even just simply wanting to buy a FUEL TANKER without resorting to either the black market or swearing an oath to the military. Because the Hedge is more than happy to sell me all the combat frigates (including ones with their unique perk mod) I'd ever want, so long as they are in stock. That's much more power fantasy than them withholding a Phaeton or Promethus gas tank on engines because I don't want to make every single other faction mad at me for joining them. (And even when they fix that, "Get a commission" options in this sort of game is always going to make more people mad at you, than if you had taken up piracy or viking conquest of a couple factions you hate.) Section Z fucked around with this message at 08:50 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 08:39
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Salvaged an Onslaught with only one meaningless D-mod on it, covered it in Mjolnirs and Dual Flak Cannons and Typhoon torpedo launchers. It's hilarious, every fighter and missile that dares approach it melts and anything caught in the front gun arcs lasts a few seconds at most. I used that to take on a big Hegemony fleet, snagged a decent Dominator from them, and then threw Storm Needlers and Light Needlers on it, for those moments when your opponent's shields absolutely positively need to be gone right now. I'm having a lot of fun trying to build fleets entirely out of poo poo I can scavenge or steal, it results in me experimenting with loadouts I never would have used.
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May 7, 2017 08:38
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dis astranagant posted:You also have to consider that this is a bit of heroic fiction. The ai jumping on a big risk to tear you up in a close battle just isn't the narrative being pushed. Then his brother comes up on my flank; I figure it's cool because I'm still sitting pretty at low flux until the dude I'm wrecking fires off all his sabots and his buddy just blasts out a bunch of reapers at the same time. I immediately poo poo bricks and realise I can't drop my shields because the sabots are coming in same time as the reapers and just end up taking it and losing half my hull. I really appreciate how cautious the AI is now though because when I think of how many ships I let the AI control in my fleet(all of them) I just have to think of how many more ships I've personally lost solo in my many reckless attacks.
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May 7, 2017 08:38
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That's another reason why I've more or less given up on giving commands to the ai beyond some escorts at the start. At the end of the day, it's going to keep itself alive and it will take care of the enemy if you get out there and give it the local superiority it needs to feel comfortable attacking. It's tempting to try and shave your deployed forces down as low as they can go and still win but you'll see markedly better behavior when you give it some slop to work with.
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May 7, 2017 08:54
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Wow, if you go on a murder-spree in the shadowyards home system, those hell fleets i couldn't find earlier come crawling out of the woodwork. 13 fleets, each consisting of 4 capital, 6 cruiser + assorted trash destroyers and frigates. Had to dodge quite expertly, but managed to get out and only having to engage 4 of those fleets. They were all at the same time, but fighter spam is helpful for blunting an aggressive push. Based on this, I think the next update needs to focus on how fighters are handled. Remove from them the ability to strafe like a ship so they have to turn and burn properly, and if possible make PD-Escorts a thing the AI will try to do. Close clustering PD frigates to a high value hull as it attempt to aggressively take a control point would to a lot to curb the opportunity murder of outlying or ahead-of-the-pack faster ships.
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May 7, 2017 08:55
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I found that by giving a direct eliminate order to one ship 1v1s go by pretty quickly.
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May 7, 2017 09:01
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I made a mod. It adds a new ship in the style of the Buffalo II, a heavy frigate called the Beefalo. http://www.mediafire.com/file/yni5rd5ugb5yu4e/Beefalo_0.3.zip
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May 7, 2017 12:43
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John_A_Tallon posted:I made a mod. It adds a new ship in the style of the Buffalo II, a heavy frigate called the Beefalo. http://www.mediafire.com/file/yni5rd5ugb5yu4e/Beefalo_0.3.zip Buffalo II: now a bad frigate instead of a perversely awful destroyer.
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May 7, 2017 13:09
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John_A_Tallon posted:I made a mod. It adds a new ship in the style of the Buffalo II, a heavy frigate called the Beefalo. http://www.mediafire.com/file/yni5rd5ugb5yu4e/Beefalo_0.3.zip I like where this is going but those stats might need a little massaging to retain balance with vanilla. What weaknesses are you specifically aiming to build in?
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May 7, 2017 13:16
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TheWetFish posted:I like where this is going but those stats might need a little massaging to retain balance with vanilla. What weaknesses are you specifically aiming to build in? Other than having way more OP than a civilian ship with so few mounts needs it seems aggressively mediocre. Turret coverage is quite good but the ballistics barely converge. And its hitbox is still destroyer sized. Very similar to a wolf, except slower, no medium slot and much worse flux handling.
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May 7, 2017 13:35
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TheWetFish posted:What weaknesses are you specifically aiming to build in? i'm guessing all of them
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May 7, 2017 13:50
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"200 peak flux dissipation after adding vents? might wanna touch that down dude it can almost run two lightacs at once."
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May 7, 2017 13:54
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It looks like an exceptional long range support platform. My biggest concern is that there is very little meaningful disincentive not to field it all the time. Recovers all combat fatigue in a single day, at only 4 supplies per combat, at only 8% CR cost per battle and is also merely a frigate for force deployment ratio calculations. There's no meaningful decision points not to deploy it A meaningful decision might occur if it recovered more slowly. Consider the Kite, a slim logistics profile civilian frigate with two missile slots; 20% CR per deployment, 5% Recovery rate (per day) and 2 Recovery cost (supplies). I love 2 extra missile slots but I'll meaningfully consider if I want a civilian frigates worth of sensor profile out of peak readiness for 4 days every time I deploy it
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May 7, 2017 15:15
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John_A_Tallon posted:I made a mod. It adds a new ship in the style of the Buffalo II, a heavy frigate called the Beefalo. http://www.mediafire.com/file/yni5rd5ugb5yu4e/Beefalo_0.3.zip Make it look less like a dick. Or more like a dick, if that’s what you’re going for.
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May 7, 2017 15:19
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Just want to note that the Aurora is fun as gently caress. 3x Heavy Blaster 4x Sabots pd leave the medium side turret empty Safety Overrides, Integrated Targeting Unit, Extended Shields, Aux Thrusters (you could drop either of the last and put that medium PD on, but I don't miss it) Heavy vents, like 18 Vent 4 Capacitor This thing can chase down and gib frigates and destroyers at will, and charging in on something with a big Sabot volley followed by point-blank blasters is glorious. Also nice and tanky, the dissipation is massive and you can easily disengage most situations
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May 7, 2017 16:32
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So today I learned the useful fact that apparently "Buy from black market" on the Refit screen, will offer options not actually visible in the black market itself. "Wait, this place's black market is selling antimatter blasters, AND burst PD lasers? I've been looking for those like crazy!  I could have sworn they were not for sale here... Oh, that's because they are in fact, NOT for sale in the black market trade screen  "I wonder if this is a widespread thing? Or yet another quirk of Buggy Derinkuyu Station™? Section Z fucked around with this message at 17:42 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 17:39
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Nosre posted:Just want to note that the Aurora is fun as gently caress. The "Sword of the stars" build is hilarious: tac lasers in every slot that takes them, phase lances in every slot that takes them, then take ITU with the improved optics. Sniping motherfuckers with 7 tac lasers for 500 dps at 2000 range, and gibbing idiots at 1600 range with the phase lances. On that note, I would argue that triple phase lance eagle is probably the best eagle build - If you put needlers or autocannons in the front three slots you can generally force people to drop shields then alphastrike them with the phase lances. Stuff smaller than a cruiser tends to die in a single salvo.
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May 7, 2017 18:20
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Section Z posted:So today I learned the useful fact that apparently "Buy from black market" on the Refit screen, will offer options not actually visible in the black market itself. Probably the latter.
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May 7, 2017 18:43
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I'm worried I might burn myself on vanilla soon after 2 play throughs to about lvl 30. Just not enough variety and the supply costs can feel pretty restrictive sometimes. I think once all of the "must have" mods update I'll sink my teeth in again. Is Starsector+ recommend? Otherwise very solid foundation and I'm glad the mods have grown over the years beyond "add new faction". Once this is 1.0 I'll have gotten my money's worth three times over.
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May 7, 2017 20:03
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 This is one of the more interesting systems layouts I’ve seen. It’s a shame there’s not much going on in the uninhabited systems. Drone_Fragger posted:The "Sword of the stars" build is hilarious: tac lasers in every slot that takes them, phase lances in every slot that takes them, then take ITU with the improved optics. Sniping motherfuckers with 7 tac lasers for 500 dps at 2000 range, and gibbing idiots at 1600 range with the phase lances. Right now my strategy is to put graviton beams on everything. Soft flux sounds useless, and it is if you only have a little, but if you go all‐in with beams nothing can withstand them.
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May 7, 2017 20:13
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Phase beams do disgusting burst damage so you're using the DPS of the tac lasers to pressure the opponent (between them they do 525 deeps, which is pretty reasonable) then when they're forced to drop shields you obliterate them with the 3500 burst damage on the phase beams
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May 7, 2017 20:54
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Zmej posted:Anyone having success with Pilams? I'm just throwing them on all my carriers to keep them far away from the battle, but I think my 10 talons and 1 trident are doing all the work before the missiles reach. They have functionally infinite ammo and range. So they're never going to be good. However the more you put on the more they just infest the field with dangerous HE missiles. They're essentially good at providing extra pressure from ships you don't want anywhere near the fight.
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May 7, 2017 21:01
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Section Z posted:So today I learned the useful fact that apparently "Buy from black market" on the Refit screen, will offer options not actually visible in the black market itself. Seems to be everywhere. I got 2 phase lances for my wolf at the starting station. And thank you to whoever brought those up. They are stupidly powerful for my starting ship. Its fun getting chased down by a pirate fleet with destroyers and picking them apart.
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May 7, 2017 21:32
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Section Z posted:So today I learned the useful fact that apparently "Buy from black market" on the Refit screen, will offer options not actually visible in the black market itself. I routinely buy up any railguns/needlers/antimatter blasters I see in the fitting screen and have never failed to find them on the relevant market.
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May 7, 2017 21:51
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The Locust SRM is fun to send a massive flurry of tiny missiles at any nearby fighters and watch them scramble, but it takes up a large missile slot so it's kinda hard to choose over the other options. Trying to think what it'd be useful on for some solid anti-fighter damage. Maybe an Aurora, or one of the slots on an Astral? I suppose I could put it on a Gryphon along with as many swarmers and PD weapons as I can fit, add an ECCM package and give it a reckless officer with missile skills. And just send it charging at enemy Moras. Now fighters are much more potent, I'm seeing an obvious gap that there's no Medium sized missile weapon between the Swarmer and the Locust. The wiki's reminded me the proximity charge launcher exists, but I haven't had chance to try it out. Does it bridge the gap? The Squall MLRS I really like for the constant kinetic barrage. Plus the EMP damage to give you some benefit if they've dropped their shields. Stick it on autofire when you get in range and just let it get to work.
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May 7, 2017 22:27
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My favorite antifighter solution is an Enforcer with a bunch of thumpers or dual flaks
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May 7, 2017 22:50
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mine is a carrier full of fighters
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May 7, 2017 22:57
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Real Cool Catfish posted:The Locust SRM is fun to send a massive flurry of tiny missiles at any nearby fighters and watch them scramble, but it takes up a large missile slot so it's kinda hard to choose over the other options. Trying to think what it'd be useful on for some solid anti-fighter damage. Maybe an Aurora, or one of the slots on an Astral? Yes, yes it does. Specifically it is amazing at preventing repeated passes from light craft or intercepting particularly dangerous munitions like bombs or torpedoes. On that note don't overlook the humble Standard Bomb Bay for small ballistic mounts. I'm getting quite a lot of mileage out of using them on cruisers & up as an on-demand screen against bomber waves On the Pilum side of things, don't forget to add both ECCM & ECM hull mods. The extra engine performance and even a 10% reduction in enemy PD range makes a huge difference to missile effectiveness. ECM advantage in general is pretty brutal including against the Remnant Battlestation Edit: Unless I'm reading this wrong (someone double check) ECCM boosts missiles;
TheWetFish fucked around with this message at 23:27 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 23:20
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Don't recall seeing the proximity chargers in stores, anywhere reliably sell them. Could be I've just been overlooking them because I forgot they existed.
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May 7, 2017 23:48
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 tri-tac bounties ain't got poo poo on me 
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May 7, 2017 23:51
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Kitfox88 posted:
That's a lot of crew and supply space?! What's your main fleet look like?
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May 7, 2017 23:51
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 08:51 |
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nice, just recovered my first Astral myself. Not even sure I want to use the thing, though, since it costs almost as much as 4x Drovers which are more flexible and pack more punch. They don't tank as well, but with the massive fighter screen they've never been in danger. Maybe I'll need the capital for the station? Does the AI use the Astral active skill + bombers effectively?
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May 7, 2017 23:56
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