CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

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yippee cahier: Mar 28, 2005

Time to outsource management.

# ? May 7, 2017 19:01

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# ? May 29, 2024 11:25

Blood Boils: Dec 27, 2006; Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS

Into a wood chipper

# ? May 7, 2017 19:10

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Black Bones posted:

Into a wood chipper

Seek help, you're much too violent :v:

# ? May 7, 2017 19:15

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Nationalize Bombardier jail the CEOs

# ? May 7, 2017 19:15

flashman: Dec 16, 2003

They make good snow mobiles (I think they still own ski Doo)

# ? May 7, 2017 20:07

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

flashman posted:

They make good snow mobiles (I think they still own ski Doo)

As Canadian as Canada goose parkas

# ? May 7, 2017 20:15

AegisP: Oct 5, 2008

flashman posted:

They make good snow mobiles (I think they still own ski Doo)

Ski Doo was apparently spun off from the main Bombardier company into Bombardier Recreational Products, that was then sold 50% to Bain Capital, 35% Bombardier Family, & 15% to a Quebec Investment Fund.

# ? May 7, 2017 20:34

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

Anyway to find out how French Nationalists living in Quebec voted for the French President?

# ? May 7, 2017 20:36

ecureuilmatrix: Mar 30, 2011

DariusLikewise posted:

Anyway to find out how French Nationalists living in Quebec voted for the French President?

https://ca.ambafrance.org/Election-presidentielle-Resultats-du-premier-tour-au-Canada

La ville de Qu�bec est encore le probl�me. (Also, lol Toronto technocrats)

For Montreal: Macron ~36%, M�lenchon ~30%, Fillon ~14%, Le P�(tai)n ~6%
http://www.consulfrance-montreal.org/Resultats-du-premier-tour-de-l

# ? May 7, 2017 21:09

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Postess with the Mostest posted:

As Canadian as Canada goose parkas

Are those made in China yet?

# ? May 7, 2017 21:17

Kindest Forums User: Mar 25, 2008; Let me tell you about my opinion about Bernie Sanders and why Donald Trump is his true successor.

You cannot vote Hillary Clinton because she is worse than Trump.

they stitch on the patch here in Canada

# ? May 7, 2017 21:36

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

infernal machines posted:

Are those made in China yet?

Having them made in Canada infuses our cold resistant ether which makes them worth infinite money. I feel like Mitt Romney has cracked the code to investing in Canadian financial illiteracy.

# ? May 7, 2017 21:43

flashman: Dec 16, 2003

I can think of no better way to spend 20k literacy be damned.. anyway it's only cheap spread out over 8 years :getin:

flashman fucked around with this message at 22:02 on May 7, 2017

# ? May 7, 2017 21:59

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

BC Greens candidate Jerry Kroll: Andrew Weaver is BC's Barack Obama

# ? May 7, 2017 22:55

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

In Victoria, even black people are white.

# ? May 7, 2017 23:01

Blood Boils: Dec 27, 2006; Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS

THC posted:

BC Greens candidate Jerry Kroll: Andrew Weaver is BC's Barack Obama

haha, so he would govern like an american centrist? that's prob accurate tbh

# ? May 8, 2017 00:25

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

Black Bones posted:

haha, so he would govern like an american centrist? that's prob accurate tbh

Trudeau is already doing the American centrist thing as PM so why not have your premier follow suit?

# ? May 8, 2017 00:40

The Dark One: Aug 19, 2005; I'm your friend and I'm not going to just stand by and let you do this!

I guess it's the Conservatives' turn to book people at the committee hearings for C-16. :shepface:

Notice of Meeting posted:

Bill C-16, An Act to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code
Witnesses

4:15 p.m. - 5:15 p.m.
As individuals
-Gad Saad, Professor and Chair in Evolutionary Behavioural Sciences and Darwinian Consumption, Concordia University
-Theryn Meyer

5:15 p.m. - 6:15 p.m.
WOMAN Means Something Campaign
-Paul Dirks
Vancouver Rape Relief and Women�s Shelter
-Hilla Kerner, Collective Member
As an individual
-Meghan Murphy

# ? May 8, 2017 01:57

Agnosticnixie: Jan 6, 2015

I never stop finding it funny that the biggest TERF groups in the country are led by men. It's like they're not even pretending.

# ? May 8, 2017 02:03

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Agnosticnixie posted:

I never stop finding it funny that the biggest TERF groups in the country are led by men. It's like they're not even pretending.

all trump had to do to to convince conservatives he's a devout Christian was wave a bible around and say he tremendously loves Jesus, great guy by the way

Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 02:25 on May 8, 2017

# ? May 8, 2017 02:22

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

lol Gad Saad is like proto-Peterson

# ? May 8, 2017 03:04

HackensackBackpack: Aug 20, 2007; Who needs a house out in Hackensack? Is that all you get for your money?

THC posted:

all trump had to do to to convince conservatives he's a devout Christian was wave a bible around and say he tremendously loves Jesus, great guy by the way

And quote "Two Corinthians."

# ? May 8, 2017 03:12

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Now Weaver says he won't coalition with the NDP because people were rude to him on the internet

# ? May 8, 2017 08:05

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

ecureuilmatrix posted:

https://ca.ambafrance.org/Election-presidentielle-Resultats-du-premier-tour-au-Canada

La ville de Qu�bec est encore le probl�me. (Also, lol Toronto technocrats)

For Montreal: Macron ~36%, M�lenchon ~30%, Fillon ~14%, Le P�(tai)n ~6%
http://www.consulfrance-montreal.org/Resultats-du-premier-tour-de-l

I'd actually classify Petain as to the left of Le Pen.

# ? May 8, 2017 09:11

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

THC posted:

Now Weaver says he won't coalition with the NDP because people were rude to him on the internet

Andrew Weaver is the biggest butthurt baby in BC.

# ? May 8, 2017 09:29

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

McGavin posted:

Andrew Weaver is the biggest butthurt baby in BC.

B-b-b-but he's BC's Obama!!

# ? May 8, 2017 09:30

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

CLAM DOWN posted:

B-b-b-but he's BC's Obama!!

A centrist campaigning from the left promising hope and change but ultimately delivering nothing? Yeah, that sounds about right.

# ? May 8, 2017 09:34

James Baud: May 24, 2015; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

James Baud fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Aug 26, 2018

# ? May 8, 2017 09:38

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Lol that's exactly what he said tho

the NDP has put forth a very progressive platform this year and has opposed the government far more consistently than Weaver

Weaver is a right wing pompous gasbag and the most alienating leader in this election by far if you actually listen to him talk for more than 30 seconds

Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 17:16 on May 8, 2017

# ? May 8, 2017 09:53

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

the globe and mail endorsed the government lmao

# ? May 8, 2017 09:55

Kraftwerk: Aug 13, 2011; i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

What is it about leftist parties like the NDP doubling down on third way centrism after being handily defeated for those policies?

Is this just a sign that there isn't an appetite for economically left policies? Are we all just sitting here in a left wing echo chamber and completely misunderstanding the Canadian electorate?

I recall attending a telephone townhall with Nathan Cullen back when mulcair got elected leader of the NDP. I asked him something about why government isn't doing more to alleviate inequality etc- he answered me by saying that today government has very few levers it can use to level the playing field short of how it chooses to adjust the way it taxes people and then what it does with those taxes.

So maybe the issue here is that government as a whole is far less relevant now that businesses and capitalist classes are essentially supernational entities that exist outside of just one nation's borders. Maybe globalization has done a lot more to delegitimize national sovereignty that you can't actually enact proper legislation. Some of the greatest victories in government came from far more authoritarian times. When the depression came in the 30s the new deal was passed. What stopped the 2008 new deal that everyone hoped Obama would pass?

Are we simply living in an era where direct state intervention of any kind is impossible? Since the Cold War ended its like the political sovereignty shifted from dictators, politburos, labour etc to a select few oligarchs and shadow operatives.

# ? May 8, 2017 16:04

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

We've seen the wealthiest make a focused effort to ensure that neo-liberal centrist globalist capitalism is the only viable way to live, even if it required a tremendous effort to sabotage any other way of working as a society. They've spent decades and billions of dollars doing everything from deliberately sabotaging the collective welfare state and public assets managed by the state for the good of the populace in order to sell it off to themselves to deposing foreign governments and installing puppet governments willing to toe the line.

It's no wonder that trying to fight against this using rational, normal means is starting to feel next to impossible. We're basically stuck in a game of Monopoly where every four years the person with the biggest bank account gets to alter the rules of the game and we have to choose to abide by them or flip over the entire table. Those in power seem to be playing a game of chicken to see just how unfair those rules can be written before we don't want to play anymore.

# ? May 8, 2017 16:35

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Kraftwerk posted:

What is it about leftist parties like the NDP doubling down on third way centrism after being handily defeated for those policies?

Is this just a sign that there isn't an appetite for economically left policies? Are we all just sitting here in a left wing echo chamber and completely misunderstanding the Canadian electorate?

I recall attending a telephone townhall with Nathan Cullen back when mulcair got elected leader of the NDP. I asked him something about why government isn't doing more to alleviate inequality etc- he answered me by saying that today government has very few levers it can use to level the playing field short of how it chooses to adjust the way it taxes people and then what it does with those taxes.

So maybe the issue here is that government as a whole is far less relevant now that businesses and capitalist classes are essentially supernational entities that exist outside of just one nation's borders. Maybe globalization has done a lot more to delegitimize national sovereignty that you can't actually enact proper legislation. Some of the greatest victories in government came from far more authoritarian times. When the depression came in the 30s the new deal was passed. What stopped the 2008 new deal that everyone hoped Obama would pass?

Are we simply living in an era where direct state intervention of any kind is impossible? Since the Cold War ended its like the political sovereignty shifted from dictators, politburos, labour etc to a select few oligarchs and shadow operatives.

If you want to know about this kind of thing, read Mark Blyth. You can't go wrong with most of his stuff for popular audiences, but here's a good taste that I think addresses the kind of issues you're thinking about :

quote:

When does democracy fail? When voters don�t get what they asked for.
By Mark Blyth December 15, 2016

Stable democracies, at least in rich countries, are the product of two conditions. The first is that people get what they vote for: that is, the policies they vote for are the policies they receive. The second is that even for citizens on the losing side, the outcomes for society overall are positive. If these conditions are not met � as is the case today, especially in Europe � democracy can become very fragile indeed.

To get what you vote for, you must at least have the right to vote. Even in the wealthiest countries, democracy is of recent vintage � something that we tend to forget. The U.S. was founded as a republic, not a democracy: All of its adult citizens were not fully enfranchised until 1965.

Democracy as we now know it came to Europe at the end of World War II, as the antidote to fascism and then to communism. It worked so long as two policies were pursued: First, that the investor class of a given society could not move its wealth abroad and had to invest at home to make profits, increasing the well-being of its countrymen.

The second was that governments prioritized full employment and wage growth. The restrictions placed on global finance after the war made the first condition hold, and governments produced policies that made everyone richer � primarily because capital was invested at home and workers paid taxes that gave them social insurance. In short, the people got what they voted for � the promise of growth that would benefit everyone.

U.S. incomes doubled from 1930 to 1960 and then doubled again from 1960 to 1980. Europe had �Les Trentes Glorieuses,� and the Italians spoke of �Il Boom.� But this changed in the 1980s. The side effect of policies pushing up employment and wages was inflation, which acted as a class-specific tax on investment and profits. (If I invest today for a 5 percent return and inflation rises to 6 percent, I�ve lost cash.)

In response, the investor classes of the developed world launched a market-friendly revolution � think Reagan, Thatcher and the European central bank � that switched policy targets from employment and wage growth to lowering inflation and stabilizing prices. They also freed finance from its �repressed� condition, globalized production and privatized the state. They promised citizens more prosperity by different but purportedly more efficient �market friendly� means.

But since 1980, outcomes for society overall have not been positive � only for the investor class. Growth in the period 1980 to 2008 was half of what it was in 1950 to 1980. And while productivity has risen and profits have soared, wages for almost everyone outside of the top 10 percent have stagnated. (After all, why should you get a pay raise if prices are stable? And be careful about asking for one: Your job might get moved abroad.)

To keep the illusion of prosperity going, the financial sector has filled the wage gap with credit. Citibank was hardly alone in offering people the chance to �Live Richly� and �open a cravings account� in the mid-2000s, and the 90 percent has leveraged up. Meanwhile, we got so good at controlling inflation that central banks today cannot generate any of it at all no matter how hard they try, which makes it difficult to pay back debts, especially when wages are not growing.

Unsurprisingly, people are beginning to realize that they are no longer getting what they vote for. Instead, they are being asked to pay more and more for what they already receive through taxes, taken from stagnant or declining incomes, which also must service their debts. In such a world it�s great to be a creditor and lousy to be a debtor. The problem for democracy is that most people are debtors.

In such a creditor-friendly world, however, democracy is reduced knowing that the menu of policy will never vary. Trump�s win in the Midwest, British voters deciding to leave the European Union, Italy�s referendum and Greece�s revolt against its creditors are all connected in this way.

Looking forward, similar trends are playing out in France, which will hold elections next year. At the moment, the only party that wants to fundamentally break with the policies of the past 30 years is the National Front. Given the pathetic state of the French left parties, leftist voters in France are being asked to turn out to elect a right-wing candidate who wants France to embrace more of the same liberalizing and income-skewing policies that have failed everywhere. But why would they do this? Just to stop the Front, whose economic policies are far closer to what they want? This has Brexit and Trump written all over it.

At the end of the day, when you no longer get what you vote for and when the role of voting is reduced to affirming the status quo, voters will vote for the most undemocratic of options if that is all that is �off the menu.� That�s democracy in action in a world devoid of choice. When you can�t get what you want and most people do not benefit from the economic outcomes of government, it�s also what makes democracy unstable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...m=.a89c37ab3ac5

# ? May 8, 2017 17:16

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Kraftwerk posted:

What is it about leftist parties like the NDP doubling down on third way centrism after being handily defeated for those policies?

Is this just a sign that there isn't an appetite for economically left policies? Are we all just sitting here in a left wing echo chamber and completely misunderstanding the Canadian electorate?

I recall attending a telephone townhall with Nathan Cullen back when mulcair got elected leader of the NDP. I asked him something about why government isn't doing more to alleviate inequality etc- he answered me by saying that today government has very few levers it can use to level the playing field short of how it chooses to adjust the way it taxes people and then what it does with those taxes.

So maybe the issue here is that government as a whole is far less relevant now that businesses and capitalist classes are essentially supernational entities that exist outside of just one nation's borders. Maybe globalization has done a lot more to delegitimize national sovereignty that you can't actually enact proper legislation. Some of the greatest victories in government came from far more authoritarian times. When the depression came in the 30s the new deal was passed. What stopped the 2008 new deal that everyone hoped Obama would pass?

Are we simply living in an era where direct state intervention of any kind is impossible? Since the Cold War ended its like the political sovereignty shifted from dictators, politburos, labour etc to a select few oligarchs and shadow operatives.

The state has far less freedom of action when it comes to offending business interests than it did forty years ago. Mainstream politicians like Trudeau Sr. and Nixon used to nationalize major industries or set price and wage controls to combat inflation. That kind of direct intervention is now opposed by both a host of domestic pressure groups, lobbyists and journalists, as well as the oversight of international forces. It's worth adding that the overall views of the Canadian population are much more inclined toward free market talking points than they used to be. The media tends to speak with a single pro-market voice these days and contemporary social mores align pretty closely with the entrepreneurial ideals of neoliberalism. So in addition to the political economic barriers there are electoral ones.

Of course it also pays to remember that an entity like the NDP isn't a unified or monolithic entity. The people who are in charge right now have a particular worldview and background and their careers are invested in a particular form of third way politics. Calls to reform the NDP would almost certainly open space for challenges to the current leadership of the party and would inevitably diminish the influence of the people who are currently in charge.

# ? May 8, 2017 17:27

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Power of the left came from a population majority affiliated with unions and an eye towards economic growth. Power of the right nowadays comes from a population majority invested in the market with an eye towards risk and capital preservation.

When everyone has their retirement tied to the economy they end up making poor longterm decisions.

# ? May 8, 2017 17:32

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

Brian Pallister

Likes: Animal Cruelty and Money
Dislikes: Government Regulations and PETA

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/twyla-francois/bill-24-manitoba-animal-protection_b_16410834.html

quote:

There's a sick feeling of d�j� vu for those of us in Manitoba these days. Here's why.

From 1986 to 1996, the provincial pig industry doubled with the industrialization of animal agriculture and massive support from the then-Conservative government in the form of lax regulations, financial support and trade missions.

Today, Manitoba has the largest pig industry in Canada, producing over 8 million pigs a year -- a number which doesn't reflect the total number of pigs born into the industry, as an estimated 11 per cent die before even leaving the farm.

As a result of the unrestricted growth, Manitoba suffered devastating ecological and social consequences. Lake Winnipeg's phosphorus load doubled, contributing to deadly algae growth, giving Lake Manitoba the rather dubious title of having the worst algae problem of any large freshwater lake in the world.

In response, a number of non-profit environmental and animal welfare organizations, as well as small-scale, mixed farmers, formed an unlikely coalition to address the issues. Because of all the uproar, in 2006, the province placed a temporary freeze on the construction of new pig barns pending a Clean Environment Commission review of the pig industry.

In 2008, after protracted negotiations, public hearings and demonstrations, the NDP government passed Bill 17 which banned new construction of pig barns in 35 Manitoba municipalities.

In 2010, after a lengthy campaign by Canadians For Ethical Treatment of Farmed Animals, the Office of the Fire Commissioner released the Manitoba Farm Building Code, which laid out specific regulations for farm buildings, thereby providing some protection for animals from barn fires, which, by then, had reached epidemic proportions.

Then, in 2011, the province adopted The Save Lake Winnipeg Act which effectively prevented new or expanded pig barns throughout the province.

Now, all these protections could be undone with the stroke of a pen.

This past February, the Manitoba government announced its intention to repeal the Manitoba Farm Building Code. Under the new regulations, the requirements for fire stops on load-bearing walls, as well as the requirement for a water supply to fight fires, will be eliminated.

Then, last month, under the guise of "red tape cutting," Premier Brian Pallister (PC) introduced Bill 24, which calls for the amendment or repeal of 15 pieces of legislation. If adopted, the new legislation would eliminate the ban on the construction of new pig barns and weaken environmental regulations governing the handling and spreading of untreated pig manure.

Environmental organizations are rightfully criticizing this bill, but little has been said about the animals suffering at the centre of this issue -- the pigs themselves. As undercover investigations have shown, cruelty is rampant on Manitoba pig farms. As former animal cruelty investigators, we have documented routine abuses in the pig industry, including the confining of pregnant pigs in barren crates so small they are unable to turn around, the mutilation of piglets without any pain relief, and the complete lack of medical attention for sick and suffering pigs.

Manitoba already has 1,379 pig farms. Yet, the industry's new goal -- supported by the Pallister government -- is to increase production by 25 per cent through the addition of 50 to 100 new barns, subjecting another 1.3 million pigs to lives of confinement, deprivation and cruelty.

Decades of observation reveal that the pig industry in Manitoba is a cyclical one, repeatedly expanding and contracting, aided by government efforts and funding. In 2007, when decreased profitability because of high feed prices and a high Canadian dollar combined with a new disease outbreak (Porcine Circovirus), the industry began to collapse. Barn fire numbers exploded tenfold over the previous year, killing over 30,000 animals, and reached a peak in 2009, when Swine Flu was detected. The Canadian government then paid out a whopping $300 million in tax-payer dollars to pig producers to exit the industry.

In a disturbing case of history repeating itself, we find ourselves in the same place we were 17 years ago with the Manitoba government once again assisting in the unrestricted growth of the pig industry, with devastating environmental consequences and immeasurable animal suffering sure to follow. It's again up to us as citizens to prevent this from happening.

# ? May 8, 2017 17:40

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Lol were the farmers all burning down their barns for insurance money once it became unprofitable?

# ? May 8, 2017 17:49

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

cowofwar posted:

Lol were the farmers all burning down their barns for insurance money once it became unprofitable?

Hard to say for sure, all I know is a farmer only pays an extra 2-3% on a barn for fire stops to make sure that every pig is immolated instantly when it catches fire

# ? May 8, 2017 17:54

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

DariusLikewise posted:

Hard to say for sure, all I know is a farmer only pays an extra 2-3% on a barn for fire stops to make sure that every pig is immolated instantly when it catches fire

A tenfold tear over year increase in barn fires that coincides with a market crash is an obvious sign of insurance fraud. I wonder why there wasn't a huge scandal.

# ? May 8, 2017 17:57

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# ? May 29, 2024 11:25

Fried Watermelon: Dec 29, 2008

cowofwar posted:

A tenfold tear over year increase in barn fires that coincides with a market crash is an obvious sign of insurance fraud. I wonder why there wasn't a huge scandal.

Brian Pallister has money in the pig industry

# ? May 8, 2017 18:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

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