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I managed to lose a Hanamura match up 4-1 the other day so with god anything is possible
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May 8, 2017 14:33
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Fellatio del Toro posted:I managed to lose a Hanamura match up 4-1 the other day so with god anything is possible People do not understand how that map works at all. 2 points left on the enemy core and an empowered friendly payload that'll win the game that's already halfway pushed? Nah, let's go defend that un-empowered payload instead because our 3 point core simply can't handle the damage! The UI needs to do a better job of communicating when payloads will do extra damage. The display they currently have might as well not even be there for as much as people notice it. (In fact, I bet there's people in this very thread who don't even realize the UI shows when you have multiple shots waiting for a payload -- and I don't mean the little bombs that get attached in the game to the payload itself.)
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May 8, 2017 14:47
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I just figured taking down a fort makes the next payload shoot twice, is there more to it?
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May 8, 2017 14:47
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Huh? The number is where all objective related numbers always are. Right? Same place as tower shot count on Doom, seeds remaining on Garden, Gems on Tomb, etc etc. I don't know where else they should have put it.
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May 8, 2017 14:49
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Avalerion posted:I just figured taking down a fort makes the next payload shoot twice, is there more to it? That's correct, but biznatchio is saying that folks probably don't notice the UI element in the bottom-right of your screen which now says "2" instead of "1" for your next payload shots.
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May 8, 2017 14:49
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Avalerion posted:I just figured taking down a fort makes the next payload shoot twice, is there more to it? Yeah that's how the payload gets extra shots (which is a fact that confuses people in its own right). I'm talking about the UI indicating that the next payload is going to have more than one shot to it. Gustav posted:I don't know where else they should have put it. On the same side of the minimap with all the other payload-relevant information would have been a good start. It also shouldn't be a display that just shows "1" all the time and quietly switches to "2". It's so easy to overlook because 90% of the game it's just sitting down there showing "1x x1". When it's 2 or more, it should glow or have fire on it or something to indicate that something out of the ordinary is happening and that you, as a player, should be aware of it. biznatchio fucked around with this message at 14:56 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 14:50
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biznatchio posted:People do not understand how that map works at all. 2 points left on the enemy core and an empowered friendly payload that'll win the game that's already halfway pushed? Nah, let's go defend that un-empowered payload instead because our 3 point core simply can't handle the damage! The display for the damage dealt by the next payload is in huge colored text.
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May 8, 2017 14:51
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if you are avoiding fights and just escorting payloads as 5 on hanamura you are playing it wrong, 3 players max escorting, 2 stalling is optimal but the main point is any more than 3 on an escort is a waste. Do everything in your power to get your payload in before the enemy's because then you can defend theirs until your next one spawns.
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May 8, 2017 14:51
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Another thing that could be communicated better is that unlike Towers, the boss only ever fires one shot. Shout outs to my QM opponents yesterday that took the boss while down 2-1 instead of pushing their empowered payload or contesting our kill shot 
Trade Chat Troll fucked around with this message at 14:57 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 14:55
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Kashuno posted:The display for the damage dealt by the next payload is in huge colored text. And yet, in nearly every game I've played on the map someone has been surprised to learn its there!
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May 8, 2017 14:58
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But your wording made it sound as if a particular payload gets empoweded rather than just whichever is the next to get a shot off? If so I guess I'm agreeing with you.
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May 8, 2017 14:58
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You playing with idiots doesn't mean it isn't blatantly obvious.Avalerion posted:But your wording made it sound as if a particular payload gets empoweded rather than just whichever is the next to get a shot off? He's saying that his allies will not push his 2x shot and instead stop the enemy's 1x shot
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May 8, 2017 14:59
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Kashuno posted:He's saying that his allies will not push his 2x shot and instead stop the enemy's 1x shot Ah right, that makes sense now. 
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May 8, 2017 15:03
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How are two people supposed to gain any kind of advantage by stalling if the enemy team is escorting as 5? How do they accomplish anything with this mission other than wasting time and feeding XP? I'm totally open to the possibility that I'm playing the map wrong, but I've seen people trying to do this a lot of times by now and the result has always been the same. Staying as 4-5 just seems unexploitable to me on this map.
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May 8, 2017 15:02
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Hanamura sucks because there's too many things that need to be done simultaneously and if the game isn't a draw that gets settled by the level 16 team fight (like someone above said) then it gets settled by whichever team had one or two members decide on the wrong priority at the crucial time. I think I would like it more if there were two or three lanes with payload lanes in between them, just clearer lines of (rotate/contest/fight here time go now game players) and no more than one payload at a time (or opposite on one track against each other merging at a team fight). The map just seems like a cluster gently caress at present and I don't think more experience on it will make it better for most.
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May 8, 2017 15:02
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Gustav posted:How are two people supposed to gain any kind of advantage by stalling if the enemy team is escorting as 5? How do they accomplish anything with this mission other than wasting time and feeding XP? Every second you stall the enemy team without dying is an advantage for you. If you have someone who can pretty easily juke in an out, even a second or two stalling the enemy payload while you finish up yours is a few second advantage for later payloads. 10s per payload that you manage to not die can add up pretty quickly. Libertine posted:Hanamura sucks because there's too many things that need to be done simultaneously and if the game isn't a draw that gets settled by the level 16 team fight (like someone above said) then it gets settled by whichever team had one or two members decide on the wrong priority at the crucial time. There is definitely too much poo poo on this map. multiple payloads to push/defend, forts to push in, mercs that give items, etc. There is just too much crap on this map that is new and it feels like a total mess. I don't think I see anyone get the recon camp, ever, and the only time I see the turret taken is when the payload is pushing by it and it's a fast pickup anyway. The support one is nice, but it's still a lovely use of time overall. There is almost always a better place to be than the mercs, and they dont offer enough of a reward to offset it. Kashuno fucked around with this message at 15:07 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 15:05
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Hit me with your hot Uther rework builds and the HOTSest strategies you got.
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May 8, 2017 15:05
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Kashuno posted:Every second you stall the enemy team without dying is an advantage for you. If you have someone who can pretty easily juke in an out, even a second or two stalling the enemy payload while you finish up yours is a few second advantage for later payloads. 10s per payload that you manage to not die can add up pretty quickly. Oh poo poo, so you're saying the time before your next payload spawns is linked to when you turn in the previous one? I assumed they were all independent, since I know you still get new payloads even if you never manage to turn in the first one. gently caress, is there a good writeup on how this map works anywhere? Not strategy, just an in-depth explanation on the mechanics?
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May 8, 2017 15:13
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Snacksmaniac posted:Hit me with your hot Uther rework builds and the HOTSest strategies you got. W build strong (even though I guess there are only two W talents) If you take Guardian of the Ancient Kings you can walk into roots and cast something for a free hardened shield. He's very strong in double support (esp Malf or Lucio or other sustained heals) with Tyr's Deliverance at 16. If you're oom in a team fight just fuckin dive them and die so you can Flash Heal. A+++ strat after 20 with Redemption.
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May 8, 2017 15:15
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Kashuno posted:Every second you stall the enemy team without dying is an advantage for you. If you have someone who can pretty easily juke in an out, even a second or two stalling the enemy payload while you finish up yours is a few second advantage for later payloads. 10s per payload that you manage to not die can add up pretty quickly. The payloads stay on the map too long for stalling to accomplish much. You can wipe the floor with the enemy team for the first round and it doesn't matter, if they push it 10 minutes later they're right back in the game.
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May 8, 2017 15:14
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Gustav posted:How are two people supposed to gain any kind of advantage by stalling if the enemy team is escorting as 5? How do they accomplish anything with this mission other than wasting time and feeding XP? By laning and/or taking a fort so your own payload gets an extra shot. It's not rocket science. 
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May 8, 2017 15:17
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Only two payloads can spawn at a time. The third payload spawns a set time after the first is escorted fully. The fourth spawns a set time after the second is escorted. And so on. Getting your payload done and delaying the enemy for even a minute is a huge advantage. It's a minute later in the game where you can finish and they can't. Another thing people don't know is that if you kill a keep, that lane spawns sappers in every wave that do core damage if they get to the end of the lane. The official overview video is pretty good at explaining all the mechanics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq5-18Vt-c0
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May 8, 2017 15:23
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Snacksmaniac posted:Hit me with your hot Uther rework builds and the HOTSest strategies you got. 1) Wave of Light (super easy to stack and great effect) 4) Holy Fire 7) Guardian of Ancient Kings Spend early game soaking experience with partner(s) and lining up as many multi-player Ws as you can and all three of these talents set you up to do that very well. 10) I prefer Divine Shield, but if I get a team with poo poo initiation I go Divine Storm. 13/16) I think both first two talents in both of these tiers have merit, I usually go Well Met and Tyr's Deliverance 20) Redemption is great especially if you are Divine Storm specced. Divine Protection is great if you got all the W talents because you just spray damage mitigation all over your team and they win team fights much easier. I think just about every talent I prefer is the highest win rate talent on the tier on hotslogs. It all works well together in my experience and I like him a lot the way he plays now.
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May 8, 2017 15:24
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Also if the enemy team is 5 manning their payload and you absolutely cannot get anyone to stall it, have two people push a lane/one person push and one person safety scout. Everything else even, if you get a fort advantage over the enemy, thats +1 core damage. I like that Hanamura is complicated, it rewards strategic play as opposed to blood brawling over a single point for several minutes.
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May 8, 2017 15:25
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What do you folks do for Ragnaros? I've bren going with sulfuras build and try play him like a bruiser but finding he's too squishy for that.
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May 8, 2017 15:30
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exquisite tea posted:The payloads stay on the map too long for stalling to accomplish much. You can wipe the floor with the enemy team for the first round and it doesn't matter, if they push it 10 minutes later they're right back in the game. Idgi. You stall them so that they get incrementally further and further behind so that if they DO push it 10 minutes later they are much further behind than you are when it comes to actually winning.
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May 8, 2017 15:33
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Libertine posted:I think just about every talent I prefer is the highest win rate talent on the tier on hotslogs. It all works well together in my experience and I like him a lot the way he plays now. Not picking out Uther specifically but it's generally better to go by pick rate than win rate. The win rate can be skewed by a lot of other things so that it's not really a good predictor for if a talent is good.
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May 8, 2017 15:33
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I spent quite a lot of time laning in a Hanamura match (as per the plan between me and my friend) as Xul. That isn't to say I didn't help at team fights when necessary, but one pub got super butthurt that I wasn't constantly at every payload push. He didn't seem to realize that thanks to my soak it got us a two level lead (not to mention the two towers I took). I felt a little vindicated when I got MVP. Edit: Here's the stats page from the replay. PureRok fucked around with this message at 15:40 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 15:35
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bamhand posted:Not picking out Uther specifically but it's generally better to go by pick rate than win rate. The win rate can be skewed by a lot of other things so that it's not really a good predictor for if a talent is good. Yeah it's more coincidence in this case, I realize it's not like an objective indicator of merit, that build just happens to work solidly for me.
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May 8, 2017 15:37
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bamhand posted:Not picking out Uther specifically but it's generally better to go by pick rate than win rate. The win rate can be skewed by a lot of other things so that it's not really a good predictor for if a talent is good. Yeah and also filter for master/diamond if you do this. Win rates mean less and less at higher tiers as well (especially 16/20) because of "win more" talents that only get picked when you're already winning.
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May 8, 2017 15:39
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Avalerion posted:What do you folks do for Ragnaros? I've bren going with sulfuras build and try play him like a bruiser but finding he's too squishy for that. He is squishy but has good sustain with Q heals. The regen globe quest (which gives a 25 armor active) helps a lot as well.
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May 8, 2017 15:40
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Snacksmaniac posted:Hit me with your hot Uther rework builds and the HOTSest strategies you got. Wave of Light > Holy Shock > Guardian of Ancient Kings or Hand of Protection > flex pick > flex pick > Beacon of Light > Redemption. Holy Shock + Beacon of Light makes you hilariously survivable. At 7, pick Guardian if the enemy has lots of weak CC that won't just get you deleted, or Hand of Protection if they have strong single-target CC and Cleanse would let you save a teammate. Shield and Storm are both great ults. You probably want Shield 95% of the time just because it lets you save teammates from death during a rout, prevent a bad initiate from turning into a 4v5, or even keep your DPS alive if they're tearing through the enemy back line. Storm can make insane plays on some of the more chokepoint-y maps like Cursed Hollow. All three 13 options are solid. Choose Spell Armour if facing a comp with lots of ability damage, choose Blessed Champion if you're fighting a comp where you can afford to wade in and hit things, or else default to Well Met. Blessed Champion scales off all healing done by Holy Light, including self-healing, so be careful what you hit with Holy Light - your AAs will heal for more if you heal an ally for the full amount than if you just topped said friend up, or used Holy Shock on an enemy. Beacon of Light affects this as well. At level 20, if you heal an ally for the full heal and Beacon of Light procs, you can be healing everyone nearby for 300-350 per auto-attack.
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May 8, 2017 16:02
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PureRok posted:I spent quite a lot of time laning in a Hanamura match (as per the plan between me and my friend) as Xul. That isn't to say I didn't help at team fights when necessary, but one pub got super butthurt that I wasn't constantly at every payload push. I've seen Xul's who push really hard consistently perform pretty well on that map. It seems really easy for him to quickly push down forts and get the extra core damage.
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May 8, 2017 16:07
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Am I a bad person if I don't want to practice Malfurion even though he's strong right now and I main support
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May 8, 2017 16:10
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Poultron posted:Am I a bad person if I don't want to practice Malfurion even though he's strong right now and I main support No, he's really loving boring to play.
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May 8, 2017 16:11
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Poultron posted:Am I a bad person if I don't want to practice Malfurion even though he's strong right now and I main support there are way more fun supports
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May 8, 2017 16:13
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Mind over Matter posted:No, he's really loving boring to play. Landing roots is super fun. AoE silence to counter a dive is even more fun.
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May 8, 2017 16:13
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Definitely not a problem with 2 support meta; if someone else wants to play him they can go ahead. Might be an issue if you first picked Morales or something, but that doesn't seem very likely.
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May 8, 2017 16:16
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Mind over Matter posted:No, he's really loving boring to play. He's no Lt. Morales, that's for sure.
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May 8, 2017 16:19
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Orthodox Rabbit posted:I've seen Xul's who push really hard consistently perform pretty well on that map. It seems really easy for him to quickly push down forts and get the extra core damage. Any specialist that can push hard dominates that map. People don't seem to understand that each fort taken is 1 fewer payload that needs to be pushed, which is huge. I've actually won multiple games where a sieger pretty much fed all game but still took forts and we'd win with a 2 level disadvantage. It's really a poorly designed map
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May 8, 2017 16:23
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