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xtothez posted:Looking at AoS free rules, those damage charts only seem to kick in around ~10 wounds so that's pretty likely. I think we'll only see degradation on oval base monsters, larger tanks like Land Raiders/Obelisks, and super-heavies. Ok, now *that's* pretty interesting
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May 8, 2017 15:42
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How did firing range work before? Could all models target a unit if one could fire, or just ones in range?
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May 8, 2017 15:48
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The Bee posted:How did firing range work before? Could all models target a unit if one could fire, or just ones in range? all the models in a unit could shoot at a target if they were in range of it (e.g. measure from the base of each model), but the whole unit had to shoot at the same target, unless one had the Split Fire special rule. Now you can have the members of the unit shoot at different targets.
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May 8, 2017 15:51
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TheChirurgeon posted:all the models in a unit could shoot at a target if they were in range of it (e.g. measure from the base of each model), but the whole unit had to shoot at the same target, unless one had the Split Fire special rule. Now you can have the members of the unit shoot at different targets. Gotcha. So if before, Terry the Distraction Carnifex lingered 24 inches away from a firing line, only the closest parts of the line could fire. Now, the rest of the unit can shoot at some Hormagaunts creeping up from the sides.
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May 8, 2017 15:58
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The Bee posted:Gotcha. So if before, Terry the Distraction Carnifex lingered 24 inches away from a firing line, only the closest parts of the line could fire. Now, the rest of the unit can shoot at some Hormagaunts creeping up from the sides. Yeah. Or really, the more common scenario--Lascannon Joe can shoot at Terry while Bolter Joes fire at Hormogaunts and get the most out of their weapons.
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May 8, 2017 15:58
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TheChirurgeon posted:Yeah. Or really, the more common scenario--Lascannon Joe can shoot at Terry while Bolter Joes fire at Hormogaunts and get the most out of their weapons. I think it's fitting that these rules help to kill Tyranids more effectively. Is there a crying Carnifex emote yet?
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May 8, 2017 16:00
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Re: Splitfire - I'm guessing the split is done by weapon type. So a regular tactical squad would go: Bolters can fire at one target, Special weapon can fire at a 2nd and the heavy weapon can fire at a 3rd.
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May 8, 2017 16:04
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Seems like another strong buff for ranged, then, but at least in a way that makes it more intuitive. Hopefully the strength/toughness changes will let them justify more T on assault units, because now one point of toughness is a 1/6 boost to survivability.
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May 8, 2017 16:04
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TKIY posted:I think it's fitting that these rules help to kill Tyranids more effectively. possibly. Though keep in mind that current indications are that hormogaunts have at least 8" for their MV value now, so they may end up taking fewer rounds of shooting
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May 8, 2017 16:07
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TKIY posted:But Dreads now have a 3+ against those, or a 2+ if they can get cover. Plus 8 wounds. In AOS Matched Play anything with the MONSTER keyword cannot benefit from cover, I suspect that 40k will have similar restrictions.
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May 8, 2017 16:17
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Also although bolters can wound dreads on a 5+, before they used to be able to glance on a 6+ against rear armour and only needed 3 of those to outright kill. The dread would need to be in cover to even get a save, and it meant a squad of 10 could easily rapid fire a dread down if they got behind it. Overall much more survivable.
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May 8, 2017 16:22
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I was going to make a chart to compare the new and old charts, but luckily I thought to check and make sure someone else hadn't already done it:
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May 8, 2017 16:23
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Actually GW confirmed it's by individual model. 
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May 8, 2017 16:27
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This chart looks way more flexible than the last one, and bolter fire being twice as likely to hit makes desperation gunfire much more valuable. I like this.
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May 8, 2017 16:30
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I was going to make a chart to compare the new and old charts, but luckily I thought to check and make sure someone else hadn't already done it: this is cool--thanks for making it!
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May 8, 2017 16:34
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Split fire is cool and good. Going to be interesting to see how they deal with timings. If I can split fire my Lascannon at a rhino and pop it, can the other dudes then shoot at the passengers etc.
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May 8, 2017 16:35
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Fuegan posted:Split fire is cool and good. Going to be interesting to see how they deal with timings. If I can split fire my Lascannon at a rhino and pop it, can the other dudes then shoot at the passengers etc. I'm assuming you declare in order. I wonder if 'you can only assault the target you shot' still exists?
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May 8, 2017 16:37
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I'd guess it's still the same process, declare targets then resolve shots. TheChirurgeon posted:this is cool--thanks for making it! Oh, no I didn't make it, some dude from Dakka did. It really changes what the Mark of Nurgle is useful for.
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May 8, 2017 16:44
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I really hope you have to declare all your shoots at once, rolling one guy at a time to get optimal results would be so annoying. Dont dislike everything getting split fire, dont understand how that is considered "stream lining" as now instead of having to figure out what my unit is going to fire at I have to figure out what every model is going to fire at, but I don't mind 4 hour long games.
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May 8, 2017 16:48
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I'd guess it's still the same process, declare targets then resolve shots. ah, fair enough. Yeah it looks like it's slightly worse vs small arms (S3) and slightly better vs higher-S weapons (7/8/9)
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May 8, 2017 16:53
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I think it's funny that we'll finally have a game where every dude in the tactical squad can potentially hurt the same target, and only now do we get to split their fire up. I think it's a good change though, I never thought I'd see the day where the one of everything devastator squads would actually be potentially useful.
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May 8, 2017 16:54
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I think this article retroactively makes our Morkanaut statline a bit better, too, since we have more context for its S-T values. 2/3rds of a taq sqaud's shots will hit the Gorkanaut, but only 1/6th will wound (S4 vs. T8), for a net of 1/9 shots landing. At save 3+, the naut will shrug off 2/3rds of those, for 1 in 27 shots actually landing. At 18 wounds, that's 486 shots on average to stop that Naut with small arms fire.
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May 8, 2017 16:55
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There was a dude in my gaming group years ago who would brag about how his army list could put 78 heavy bolter shots down range and all this "X unit would take Y lasgun shots to kill it" talk reminds me of him.
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May 8, 2017 17:02
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SRM posted:There was a dude in my gaming group years ago who would brag about how his army list could put 78 heavy bolter shots down range and all this "X unit would take Y lasgun shots to kill it" talk reminds me of him. "I don't want your damned THEORETICALS, give me the PRACTICALS." Uh, that's a lot of heavy bolters. What was he doing? Just running a bunch of maxed out HB devastators?
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May 8, 2017 17:09
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If heavy bolters get a -1 save mod I think they're actually gonna be pretty drat scary when spammed. They'll put out enough shots for anything under T10 to take some hurt.
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May 8, 2017 17:13
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TheChirurgeon posted:Stripping is generally much easier for metal models because the solvents that melt plastic won't touch metal, so you can use poo poo like pine sol if you want. There's nothing white on the minis other than the transfers and the bolter highlight. The bolters are done using P3 frostbite, which is a bluish-grey, and they're edged with white.
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May 8, 2017 17:14
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SRM posted:There was a dude in my gaming group years ago who would brag about how his army list could put 78 heavy bolter shots down range and all this "X unit would take Y lasgun shots to kill it" talk reminds me of him. Yeah, sorry about that. I think we're all a bit hungry for numbers at the moment, so with no special abilities or weapon rules we're just doing Bolter Math.
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May 8, 2017 17:18
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I was going to make a chart to compare the new and old charts, but luckily I thought to check and make sure someone else hadn't already done it: This is cool but slightly innaccurate for the old chart - if the T is 4 higher than the S (or higher) then you can't wound, even on a 6. e.g. S3 vs T7. Zark the Damned fucked around with this message at 17:28 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 17:25
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On a side note I just started playing Eternal Crusade and eh. It needs more maps and a few tweaks but overall not horrible.
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May 8, 2017 17:30
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Tiger Millionaire posted:Okay, thousand sons are pretty rad too, but how do you even collect them? Start with a regular CSM box and supplement with the unique boys or go all in on the evil space Egyptians? Thousand Sons are troop choices in a Thousand Sons army (normally they're elite) and that's probably unlikely to change. Tzaangors are also troop choices as well as being rad models. The current spiffy formations (War Coven, Sekhmet Conclave etc) are going away. But there will be something similar to the current Combined Arms detachment. I wouldn't make any big purchases right now, but having said that, do not get the current CSM box. The kit is old and we're possibly going to get a new one soonish. Don't buy anything in finecast either if you can. Life is too short to deal with finecast.
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May 8, 2017 17:43
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GreenMarine posted:"I don't want your damned THEORETICALS, give me the PRACTICALS." I think it was heavy bolter devs and landspeeders with shitloads of heavy bolters. Geoff Zahn posted:On a side note I just started playing Eternal Crusade and eh. It needs more maps and a few tweaks but overall not horrible. Punching Rhinos so hard they run over other players is great, the rest is a janky as hell Space Marine with maps that are too big and don't direct combat very well at all.
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May 8, 2017 18:26
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HBs could be nice though. If it's -1 armor save and d3 damage like I expect, you need 9 unsaved HB hits to drop that T8 3+ armor 18w walker. 4+ save means you need 18 wounds, and with T8 vs S5 that means 54 hits. That's about 80 HB shots at BS4, or the output of 27 heavy bolters. That's not actually that far behind lascannons, which need 14 shots. So you need less than twice the number of heavy bolters as lascannons to drop a gorkanaut with these assumptions. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 18:39 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 18:34
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chutche2 posted:HBs could be nice though. You think Heavy Bolters are going to do 1d3 damage? I would be pretty surprised if they change much from just being 3 shots, strength 5, 1 damage, and -1 to armor save. I imagine Meltas will be 1 shot, strength 8, a 1d3 damage unless you are in melta range then they will be a 1d6, and - 3 to armor. Plasma guns I imagine will be rapid fire, strength 7, 2 damage, -2 to armor, plasma cannons will do like 1d3 hits which could make them a lot worse if you are rolling several more gets hot rolls.
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May 8, 2017 19:06
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Of loving course the new wounding system is basically a gigantic middle finger to Tyranids. Why, I wonder if Cruddace might be in charge of the design team. https://twitter.com/GamesWerkshop/status/861644536367509504 Yes, yes he is. gently caress you Crud.
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May 8, 2017 19:11
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^^^ hahaJesusIsTehCool posted:You think Heavy Bolters are going to do 1d3 damage? I would be pretty surprised if they change much from just being 3 shots, strength 5, 1 damage, and -1 to armor save. I imagine Meltas will be 1 shot, strength 8, a 1d3 damage unless you are in melta range then they will be a 1d6, and - 3 to armor. Plasma guns I imagine will be rapid fire, strength 7, 2 damage, -2 to armor, plasma cannons will do like 1d3 hits which could make them a lot worse if you are rolling several more gets hot rolls. We'll see. Back in the day, Meltaguns did 1d6 wounds and Multi-meltas did 2D12. But then again, Lascannons did 2D6, so it seems like they're toning things down a bit from 2nd edition damage rules (which were kind of pointless anyways, given how few wounds most things had).
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May 8, 2017 19:15
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What makes the new wound system especially bad for Tyranids, if I can ask?
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May 8, 2017 19:23
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TheChirurgeon posted:We'll see. Back in the day, Meltaguns did 1d6 wounds and Multi-meltas did 2D12. But then again, Lascannons did 2D6, so it seems like they're toning things down a bit from 2nd edition damage rules (which were kind of pointless anyways, given how few wounds most things had). Too real, man. Too real.
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May 8, 2017 19:24
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The Bee posted:What makes the new wound system especially bad for Tyranids, if I can ask? Seconding this, I don't really get it.
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May 8, 2017 19:29
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Zuul the Cat posted:Seconding this, I don't really get it. Tyranids are wounded on a 2+ 
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May 8, 2017 19:30
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The Bee posted:What makes the new wound system especially bad for Tyranids, if I can ask? Zuul the Cat posted:Seconding this, I don't really get it. Sigh... Guys. GUYS. "GamesWerkshop" is a joke account Safety Factor posted:I flipped through a copy of the 2nd ed weapons manual recently and I was amazed at some of the damage values. It's not like a bunch of models had 10+ wounds, it seemed like complete overkill. Seems like it'll actually matter in 8th and I'm honestly all for Instant Death going away. Yeah, some weapons will still effectively be the same thing with a good damage roll, but at least it's not guaranteed. Yeah it was pretty comical, because nothing really had the ability to withstand that. like, looking at the 2nd ed Chaos Codex, Bloodthirsters and Great Unclean Ones topped the charts at W10 each, The LOC and KOS had 7, and none of the marine characters got above 4. Except for like, Kharn, who had an awesome rule where he had 6 wounds because it took way more punishment to bring him down TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 19:38 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 19:33
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