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Razorwired posted:The rest economy is as broken as CR. 99% of tables straight up ignore the rule that you can only Long Rest once every 24 hours. I basically let my players short rest whenever. I don't have a warlock in the party but it really hasn't been a problem. I feel like players should just kind of have those encounter based resources anyway. I don't think I'd ever make them rest on different scales though because the rests are going to end up defaulting to the longest denominator. The martials resting faster would have marginal utility because only rarely would one rest and the other wouldn't.
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May 7, 2017 20:57
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Slippery42 posted:More starting HP and/or an extra point-buy point or two during chargen are the house rules I use. I give everyone a flat +5 HP which is more conservative than the thread consensus. However, it's been enough to prevent the insta-kill foolishness that can happen to unlucky level 1 characters while having minimal impact on encounter-building guidelines later on and preserving a bit more tension. I'm partial to reworking the HP calculation, by adding these 3 numbers together:
Works out roughly the same, but also gets rid of the dumb level 1 exception currently in the rules, and helps out meatshield/MAD classes a bit by deemphasizing CON. Along the same lines, the Durable feat is one of those perks that could easily be used as a house-rule/math fix for everyone (or just certain characters/classes who really need it.) SerCypher posted:I think I'm just going to mash both of your ideas together, and add some of the Hero Points mechanics to inspiration as well. Just give everyone the Lucky feat, for free.
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May 7, 2017 22:09
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So here's a puzzle for you. In a recent DnD 5e one off, I made a character into a Jack of all Trades. 13 in all attributes at the start, but able - with a full action - to switch to any class. Effectively I made like ten character sheets and swapped between them as necessary. Spell slots were limited, regardless of type (tied to Wizard slots), so I couldn't cast all my wizard spells then switch to cleric and burn through all those too. As I leveled, I could boost any attributes as normal, but the boosted attributes would remain even when I switched classes. I had access to all feats and skills, but those too were locked in. On paper that's already pretty broken - it lets you do anything, even though you're pretty gimped with your low base stats. What I want to know is HOW broken. What's the best way I could leverage this to break the game over my knee.
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May 7, 2017 22:58
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:Reducing a short rest to 15 minutes is a pretty popular houserule and definitely helps Monks, Warlocks and Fighters. It does make encounters surprisingly easier though if short rests are frequent though. I mean I'd still run the first few encounters by the normal challenge rules just to get a feel for the system but you will notice that the players will stomp through them. Like, it's more general flaws aside it's very obvious the 5e challenge rating system was balanced with the intention that rests would be fairly rare and depleted resources over successive encounters would be a big issue. The "real" rule is that Short Rests are supposed to be once every two encounters, but the problem is that even if you say that you can't narratively wait an hour between every fight, it still doesn't make sense to wait an hour between every two fights, either. And then at the same time, if you reduce Short Rests to five minutes or fifteen minutes, you're creating the opposite problem, where narratively speaking it should be possible to have a Short Rest between every fight, and then there's still no strong reason why it would be specifically limited to once every two fights. My hot take is that you make Short Rests once every fight because Monks, Warlocks, and Fighters need the help anyway, and it doesn't completely divorce them from the adventuring day attrition mechanics because HP is still a daily resource. Or you call Short Rests whatever you like, but you divorce it from the narrative altogether and award the benefits once every two fights period. But it's difficult to both consider Short Rests to be a "real thing" within the game, and still be awarded as often as the system implies they should be. Dog Kisser posted:So here's a puzzle for you. In a recent DnD 5e one off, I made a character into a Jack of all Trades. 13 in all attributes at the start, but able - with a full action - to switch to any class. Effectively I made like ten character sheets and swapped between them as necessary. Spell slots were limited, regardless of type (tied to Wizard slots), so I couldn't cast all my wizard spells then switch to cleric and burn through all those too. The big thing there is that you can cherry-pick from all the spell lists at will. You're still going to want to max-out your INT so that your Wizard saving throw DCs are as high as possible, but you can poach Druid shapeshifting, and Cleric and Druid and Bard buffs and rituals and utility spells and spells that don't require saving throws to be effective. To compare, this would have been "impossible" in 3e because you needed 11 Wisdom just to cast level 1 Cleric spells, or 13 Charisma just to cast level 3 Bard spells. But 5e has no such limitations.
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May 8, 2017 00:14
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Dog Kisser posted:So here's a puzzle for you. In a recent DnD 5e one off, I made a character into a Jack of all Trades. 13 in all attributes at the start, but able - with a full action - to switch to any class. Effectively I made like ten character sheets and swapped between them as necessary. Spell slots were limited, regardless of type (tied to Wizard slots), so I couldn't cast all my wizard spells then switch to cleric and burn through all those too. Average ability score if you use point buy is 11.5 (or thereabouts) and the array gives you an average of 12, so I'm not sure I'd call all 13s "low base stats". Low primary stat for each class, sure. The ways in which you can totally break everything will probably depend on whether or not a spell or class feature stays active when you shift classes.
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May 8, 2017 00:34
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AlphaDog posted:Average ability score if you use point buy is 11.5 (or thereabouts) and the array gives you an average of 12, so I'm not sure I'd call all 13s "low base stats". Low primary stat for each class, sure. I'm pretty sure it was 12s, actually. And yes, stuff lasted between switches.
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May 8, 2017 00:45
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I don't think my DM skills are quite good enough to create urgency that overcomes my players' anxiety about progressing without being rested up. I am thinking of switching from The Stick to The Carrot as the motivator for not resting at every opportunity. Some video games have mechanics where your loot/XP multipliers increase if you avoid checkpoints. Risk/Reward and push your luck could probably motivate my players to avoid making a case for "We can rest now, right?" has anyone tried something like this? Perhaps I will give my PCs tokens of Tymora, Goddess of Luck, with buffs that increase in power as they take more risks. Or a chest at their home base blessed by Ilmater, the One Who Endures, and is more full of gold and items the more worse for wear they are upon returning.
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May 8, 2017 01:37
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Seems reasonable. The real problem is players want to do cool stuff but the game requires a long rest to charge the cool powers. The way the rules should have been is the big powers charge up with combat instead of with resting. Having an item that charges up over time is a decent way to help compensate for bad game design I guess.
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May 8, 2017 01:44
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Had a great SKT session today. It has come to pass that my group couldn't visit a region known as the "ten towns" without visiting each of the towns. They convinced themselves that the sheriff would want them to visit all of them, and they hit like 4 of them last time. I had one of the town sheriffs tied up in a cave with a huge yeti as the first fight this week and barbarians with trained cave fishers behind them. His kidnappers had been using it as a base when the yeti came in to pray at an altar in there. The party really felt like they had to manage per-day resources for the first time since the starting town. They rescued him and brought evidence of giant activity back to bryn shander and the sheriff there insisted they didn't have to visit the rest of the towns - he'd send deputies. The session ended there and I asked them what they were planning to do and the answer was....still visit all of the towns. Their reasoning, without me really interfering at all, was that their characters are generally interested in exploring and seeing new places and are unlikely to be back this way, which is almost too earnest for me to wanna try and stop them. The guy they rescued is gonna buy them a drink and is a harper secretly - I want him to push the plot forward a little and get them out of this area. Is it lame railroading if I try to further dissuade them from visiting every town? I can keep rolling with it and write little side stuff to do there and work in giants but I'm worried the plot will slow down. There are only so many ways for me to invent situations where the group needs to fight multiple encounters per day when they're cityhopping through reasonably populated areas.
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May 8, 2017 01:59
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 Honestly this doesn't even seem that bad for level 8.
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May 8, 2017 02:11
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My major nitpick is 30 speed is too fast for Vader. Make him slow as gently caress and give him compelled duel.
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May 8, 2017 02:26
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Had a great SKT session today. It has come to pass that my group couldn't visit a region known as the "ten towns" without visiting each of the towns. They convinced themselves that the sheriff would want them to visit all of them, and they hit like 4 of them last time. I had one of the town sheriffs tied up in a cave with a huge yeti as the first fight this week and barbarians with trained cave fishers behind them. His kidnappers had been using it as a base when the yeti came in to pray at an altar in there. The party really felt like they had to manage per-day resources for the first time since the starting town. They rescued him and brought evidence of giant activity back to bryn shander and the sheriff there insisted they didn't have to visit the rest of the towns - he'd send deputies. The session ended there and I asked them what they were planning to do and the answer was....still visit all of the towns. Their reasoning, without me really interfering at all, was that their characters are generally interested in exploring and seeing new places and are unlikely to be back this way, which is almost too earnest for me to wanna try and stop them. The Ten Towns are the antithesis of "reasonably populated." Have one be wiped out by giants with the people needing to be rescued. Another is emptied out for a barbarian tribe event of some sort, religious or celebratory. You could do an adventuring day's worth of encounters just getting from one to another. One more is dealing with a lost fragment of Crenshinibon. Yet another is dealing with aquatic invaders from the Endless Ice Sea. And your last has a secret your Harper contact needs/wants/is involved in. There's six to keep you busy. Follow what your players want to do. If they like exploring Icewind Dale more than the main plot of SKT, just roll with that. You'll have more fun doing what they want to do instead of trying to railroad them back to the adventure that isn't as interesting to them as what you've already presented.
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May 8, 2017 02:27
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Cool, that's a really good answer and you're absolutely right. Those are really good ideas, and more local smaller scope stuff will work out fine - not sure why I felt like I needed permission to give them what they asked for.
Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 02:45 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 02:42
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Admiral Joeslop posted:
Wisdom seems way too out of character for a Sith.
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May 8, 2017 03:02
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Had a great SKT session today. It has come to pass that my group couldn't visit a region known as the "ten towns" without visiting each of the towns. They convinced themselves that the sheriff would want them to visit all of them, and they hit like 4 of them last time. I had one of the town sheriffs tied up in a cave with a huge yeti as the first fight this week and barbarians with trained cave fishers behind them. His kidnappers had been using it as a base when the yeti came in to pray at an altar in there. The party really felt like they had to manage per-day resources for the first time since the starting town. They rescued him and brought evidence of giant activity back to bryn shander and the sheriff there insisted they didn't have to visit the rest of the towns - he'd send deputies. The session ended there and I asked them what they were planning to do and the answer was....still visit all of the towns. Their reasoning, without me really interfering at all, was that their characters are generally interested in exploring and seeing new places and are unlikely to be back this way, which is almost too earnest for me to wanna try and stop them. There was a playtest thing called Legecy of the Crystal Shard it includes alongside an adventure, a small guide to Icewind Dale. Here a copy. If you want the adventure and some of the other stuff that comes with it you can find it on the DM's Guild or Drivethroughrpg. https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/d38688fa-8af8-440c-8bb7-738cfec67143 MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 03:06 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 03:01
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Thanks for the custom rules advice, another question. I've seen a few people recommend something like the following: Due to less magical interference, the number of items Rangers and Paladins can attune is increased by 1. Monks and Barbarians can attune an additional 2 items, and Fighters/Rogues can attune up to 6 items. I myself have ran into the issue that atunement causes. If anything it even makes casters better than they already are. While the fighter essentially needs their magical armor and magic sword in order to stay relevant, the wizard can attune all sorts of random cool stuff. If the fighter has boots of flying and can fly at will now, I don't think it's a big deal, wizards can just wake up in the morning and do that.
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May 8, 2017 03:04
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SerCypher posted:Thanks for the custom rules advice, another question. I uh don't see a question. Just you saying how you think you should up atunement for some classes. Which is fine. I doubt it will break anything unless you give away a ton of super powerful items to them.
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May 8, 2017 03:10
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SerCypher posted:Thanks for the custom rules advice, another question. So do all of your players play exclusively straight-classed characters? Because otherwise this is pretty untenable, or needs exceptions built in.
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May 8, 2017 03:18
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P.d0t posted:So do all of your players play exclusively straight-classed characters? Because otherwise this is pretty untenable, or needs exceptions built in. Pretty much just straight class, yes. None of them have ever multiclassed in any game I've ever played with them. MonsterEnvy posted:I uh don't see a question. The question is whether or not this might help make the game better for martials, or break it somehow.
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May 8, 2017 03:21
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P.d0t posted:So do all of your players play exclusively straight-classed characters? Because otherwise this is pretty untenable, or needs exceptions built in. SerCypher posted:Pretty much just straight class, yes. It's not going to break the game barring some weird circumstance. It's certain to improve the lives of the martials. If you do come to a situation of multiclassing you could probably bracket the amount of attunements by martials (monk, rogue, fighter, barbarian), hybrids (paladins, rangers), and pure casters (bards, clerics, wizards, sorcerers, warlocks, druids). So if a cleric tries to dip fighter to get more slots it won't actually work unless the majority of levels are fighter. Say something like 3/4s of the levels.
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May 8, 2017 03:30
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SerCypher posted:Pretty much just straight class, yes. And it should be fine. Unless you give them a ton of powerful magic items it should not break.
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May 8, 2017 03:40
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Cool, that's a really good answer and you're absolutely right. Those are really good ideas, and more local smaller scope stuff will work out fine - not sure why I felt like I needed permission to give them what they asked for. Hope the Icewind dale pdf I linked is helpful as well for this.
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May 8, 2017 03:42
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Neon Knight posted:I don't think my DM skills are quite good enough to create urgency that overcomes my players' anxiety about progressing without being rested up. I am thinking of switching from The Stick to The Carrot as the motivator for not resting at every opportunity. Some video games have mechanics where your loot/XP multipliers increase if you avoid checkpoints. Risk/Reward and push your luck could probably motivate my players to avoid making a case for "We can rest now, right?" has anyone tried something like this? The carrot: I ran a short 3e campaign last year where I experimented with reward structures for players. By default, the game's base unit of XP reward was [75 * characterLevel] XP for an encounter, which would give you a level-up every 13 encounters. The way I ran my dungeon crawl was that for every consecutive encounter they fought, I increased the XP reward by 25% each time, all the way up to +100%, meaning they could level-up twice as fast as long as they kept going and kept exploring. If they took a rest, the XP gain would reset to the base amount. The downside to this approach is that you would have to track XP in the first place. You can maybe substitute loot for it, but then that also requires that loot is valuable enough to the players for the multiplier to matter to them. The stick: By default, D&D already has a penalty for bailing out, taking a rest, and going back in, without the DM having to add any additional time pressure or other fluff: the party has to backtrack out of the dungeon to get aboveground or some other safe zone, and they when they're heading back to the last room they left off from, you're supposed to roll a random encounter check for every previously cleared-out room that they're exploring past. This mechanic also combines with the normal periodic random encounter check to form a generic "you hosed up" penalty mechanic: if the player wants to do a A Thing, and you can't think of anything else that would make failure interesting or meaningful, either hit them with a random encounter check on failure, or an increase in the percentage check to trigger a random encounter on failure. This system only goes so far: at some point the party is going to be able to create safe zones without having to bail all the way out. (the other, probably even larger issue is scenarios where the party isn't operating in a dungeon or dungeonesque setting at all, and how that relates to playing D&D in general, but I'll set aside that discussion besides noting that yes, it happens) The other thing to note is that it does have the potential of consuming a lot of time in combats for possibly little to no plot-wise gain. The other mechanic I experimented with was giving the monsters a flat +1 to all their d20 rolls if the players just went out to the dungeon entrance and slept there, or a +2 to all their d20 rolls if they went all the way back to town, since they could also buy new equipment on top of regaining their daily resources. This is supposed to be an abstraction of the monsters "being more prepared for next time" since the players are pausing their assault on the dungeon. When I used it, the players only ever surfaced once, and only to the dungeon entrance, so the monsters got a +1, but if this kept happening in a much longer dungeon, I anticipate that you'd have to set milestones where this global bonus goes away, or else it has the potential of escalating well past the normal range of "attack vs AC" values or "saving throw vs spell DC" values.
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May 8, 2017 04:39
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got invited to a D&D group the other day and ran into the always welcome "we rolled for stats, no we didnt do it in roll20, no there's no evidence of any randomization ever being used, also my stats involve 3 scores over 18 at level 1." from basically every other player. watching people cheat at a collaborative team-based game never really gets old does it
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May 8, 2017 17:44
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I'm thinking of making a skill monkey swashbuckler sailor half elf sticking to straight elf. Any advice on 27 point buy stats?/ other advice?
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May 8, 2017 17:47
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Under the vegetable posted:got invited to a D&D group the other day and ran into the always welcome "we rolled for stats, no we didnt do it in roll20, no there's no evidence of any randomization ever being used, also my stats involve 3 scores over 18 at level 1." from basically every other player. I know a DM that didn't make us roll for anything, trying out a "Just pick whatever you think feels right and can justify with your backstory" thing. Two of five picked lower stats than we previously had rolled for but nobody chose an odd numbered stat. I mean why would you? I just feel more like an even sixteen, you know?
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May 8, 2017 17:56
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When Mearls etc all were doing their play tests, were they using arrays or rolled stats? What about the public playtests? I wonder if the early game rocket tag is due to a lot of people doing the classic "oops that die fell on the floor and was a 1 it doesn't count but does if it's a 6" stuff and everyone had 16-18 con and dex starting out no matter the class.
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May 8, 2017 18:04
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mastershakeman posted:When Mearls etc all were doing their play tests, were they using arrays or rolled stats? What about the public playtests? I wonder if the early game rocket tag is due to a lot of people doing the classic "oops that die fell on the floor and was a 1 it doesn't count but does if it's a 6" stuff and everyone had 16-18 con and dex starting out no matter the class. They were using array. Pretty much all official D&D stuff uses array or point buy.
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May 8, 2017 18:12
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MonsterEnvy posted:They were using array. Pretty much all official D&D stuff uses array or point buy. The only exception is in the core rulebooks, where it really matters.
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May 8, 2017 18:13
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Arivia posted:The only exception is in the core rulebooks, where it really matters. It uses it there as well. But you already know that.
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May 8, 2017 19:12
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MonsterEnvy posted:It uses it there as well. But you already know that.
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May 8, 2017 19:17
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Splicer posted:The game states "You generate you character's six ability scores randomly". It then presents some optional alternatives. But you already know that. Actually, it presents rolling for stats and the standard array as completely equal (which is silly) and uses them both as acceptable and simultaneous defaults. It then presents point buy as an optional alternative.
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May 8, 2017 19:26
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Splicer posted:The game states "You generate you character's six ability scores randomly". It then presents some optional alternatives. But you already know that. Indeed I do. Does not change that it brings up Array as an equally valid option and Point Buy as a variant. And at least for the rolling putting them in order rolled is never mentioned. Though I don't get why some of you treat rolling like its the worst thing ever. When every other edition does it as well or has options for it. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 19:32 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 19:27
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I don't like rolling for stats at all, and making a rolled array and a standard array out to be equal in terms of gameplay effect is very silly, yes. But also, yes, it's been in every edition iirc, including 4. Presenting rolling for stats as the primary choice seems bad to me, though, since it's not fair for everyone.
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May 8, 2017 19:43
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Rolling stats is dumb given the rest of the game but the rolling method they provide result in characters with roughly similar stats to the array. The outliers are so unfun/disruptive it's not really worth the risk IMO.
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May 8, 2017 19:46
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mango sentinel posted:Rolling stats is dumb given the rest of the game but the rolling method they provide result in characters with roughly similar stats to the array. I think you'll find that it is quite fun to have three rolled 18s on your level one character sheet
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May 8, 2017 20:21
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Rolled stats is less dumb pre-3e where character creation takes minutes and your stats are one of the few meaningful differences between characters of the same class, so saying it's been in every edition is a bit unfair. Like so many old school design elements it made sense at the time but it doesn't make sense now.
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May 8, 2017 20:24
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mastershakeman posted:I think you'll find that it is quite fun to have three rolled 18s on your level one character sheet I've been in a similar situation (not quite that extreme) and I found it quite uncomfortable. I don't like feeling more powerful than my friends in a co-operative, co-created imaginary space due to dumb luck. I even feel bad when I hog too much of the spotlight as a magic user versus the non-casters in the group. I'd like everyone to be able to shine by solving problems with clever solutions or coming up with a novel use for an item, not by virtue of how some polyhedra landed before we even started playing.
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May 8, 2017 20:30
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Masiakasaurus posted:Rolled stats is less dumb pre-3e where character creation takes minutes and your stats are one of the few meaningful differences between characters of the same class, so saying it's been in every edition is a bit unfair. Like so many old school design elements it made sense at the time but it doesn't make sense now. Could you elaborate a bit more? What about <3e made rolling stats fine but 5e makes it bad? What would be better, today, just flat array stats?
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May 8, 2017 20:45
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Krinkle posted:Could you elaborate a bit more? What about <3e made rolling stats fine but 5e makes it bad? What would be better, today, just flat array stats? How good you are at things was a lot less tied to your stats in AD&D and prior. Aside from ephemera like carry capacity and break doors/bend bars, an 8 strength fighter is basically the same as a 15 strength fighter. 16 strength gets you a whole +1 on a damage roll. Character power was way more a function of level and equipment. The flat array of stats is best for 5e since the game is entirely balanced around assuming players are using that array and statting optimally for their class. When you start getting characters with moderate-heavily suboptimal stats the combat math and already flaky challenge ratings crumble completely. mango sentinel fucked around with this message at 21:01 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 20:58
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