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Will Jon Jones ever fight in the UFC again? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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59 | 56.73% |
| No |
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45 | 43.27% |
| Total: | 104 votes | ||
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iirc he was confused by the notion that you wouldn't punch as hard as you could all the time
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May 8, 2017 20:25
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| # ? May 19, 2024 09:16 |
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which in the context of the time he was fighting makes a lot of sense because being good at mma meant having really good offense and hitting hard, i'm pretty sure there was no point to him throwing with less than 100% power in most of his fights e: i'm obviously not saying that there's no point to doing that. but it didn't really impact quarry much because of how, and who, he fought.
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May 8, 2017 20:27
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Bas Rutten used to be at the bleeding edge of striking in this sport and he said there was no reason to ever jab in MMA, so it's hard to blame Quarry. It's easy to blame him for his post-fighting career: making a comic book called "zombie cage fighter"
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May 8, 2017 20:31
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lol
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May 8, 2017 20:40
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Triticum Guzzler posted:Bas Rutten used to be at the bleeding edge of striking in this sport and he said there was no reason to ever jab in MMA, so it's hard to blame Quarry. It's easy to blame him for his post-fighting career: making a comic book called "zombie cage fighter" he's kind of right. For a lot of styles and a lot of fighters you need to be really relatively safe to throw a jab. The jab in MMA makes you vulnerable to an overhand right or cross unless you throw it perfectly. Perfectly doesn't just mean keeping your elbow tight and your knees bent it also means you have to know the distance exactly. In other words you have to set up the jab while being aware of your wrestling opportunities, his wrestling opportunities, the feet, etc. There's a loving lot of work and a lot of just circumstantial poo poo that has to come together before you can throw a truly safe jab. Many fighters would rather set up a bigger strike. With all that being said if you make a stinging jab a part of your game plan it can definitely work for you--Rory Mac, Gustaffson, Masvidal, Joanna and Makdessi all come to mind as guys who have nasty jabs that can gently caress up your whole poo poo but that's a function of their body types and fighting styles. They're never out of position to either throw that jab or move their weight around and come in with another strike. In MMA the jab is more a feature of certain fighters skillsets and movement patterns rather than something everyone should try to force.
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May 8, 2017 21:07
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Gay Horney posted:he's kind of right. For a lot of styles and a lot of fighters you need to be really relatively safe to throw a jab. The jab in MMA makes you vulnerable to an overhand right or cross unless you throw it perfectly. Perfectly doesn't just mean keeping your elbow tight and your knees bent it also means you have to know the distance exactly. In other words you have to set up the jab while being aware of your wrestling opportunities, his wrestling opportunities, the feet, etc. There's a loving lot of work and a lot of just circumstantial poo poo that has to come together before you can throw a truly safe jab. Many fighters would rather set up a bigger strike. no... and thats not the point anyway. Your tangential jab analysis is goofy. Bundt Cake fucked around with this message at 21:33 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 21:29
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Foul Fowl posted:which in the context of the time he was fighting makes a lot of sense because being good at mma meant having really good offense and hitting hard, i'm pretty sure there was no point to him throwing with less than 100% power in most of his fights he fought some guys who knew how to strike. rivera and franklin
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May 8, 2017 21:35
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Gay Horney posted:he's kind of right. For a lot of styles and a lot of fighters you need to be really relatively safe to throw a jab. The jab in MMA makes you vulnerable to an overhand right or cross unless you throw it perfectly. Perfectly doesn't just mean keeping your elbow tight and your knees bent it also means you have to know the distance exactly. In other words you have to set up the jab while being aware of your wrestling opportunities, his wrestling opportunities, the feet, etc. There's a loving lot of work and a lot of just circumstantial poo poo that has to come together before you can throw a truly safe jab. Many fighters would rather set up a bigger strike. every punch is vulnerable to a counter. this is all really loving stupid.
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May 8, 2017 21:38
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Bundt Cake posted:Your tangential jab analysis is goofy. Gay Horney fucked around with this message at 21:43 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 21:39
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Gay Horney posted:Submit your corrections and I will let Jeremy Horn know where he's wrong My first correction is that its not 2006 anymore, and Kenny Florian revolutionized the sport showing how a jab works pretty much exactly how and in the same circumstances you would expect it too if someone did it
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May 8, 2017 21:42
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ouch my foot. drat he's droppin names
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May 8, 2017 21:45
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Jeremy horn doesn't think Jabs work because none of his punches ever worked
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May 8, 2017 21:46
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remember when gsp put one fo the most prolonged and vicious beatings seen inside the octagon on josh koscheck? little did he know he was vulnerable to the overhand right - the only punch koscheck knows how to throw
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May 8, 2017 21:46
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Bundt Cake posted:My first correction is that its not 2006 anymore, and Kenny Florian revolutionized the sport showing how a jab works pretty much exactly how and in the same circumstances you would expect it too if someone did it
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May 8, 2017 21:47
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Marching Powder posted:remember when gsp put one fo the most prolonged and vicious beatings seen inside the octagon on josh koscheck? little did he know he was vulnerable to the overhand right - the only punch koscheck knows how to throw It was crazy how a fighter used a jab to keep a distance and throw off his opponents timing... Never before seen in MMA
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May 8, 2017 21:47
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Gay Horney posted:Yes like I said there are more fighters working it into their gameplan. Nate Quarry is not one of them (and neither was Jeremy to be fair) and I was talking about Bas being right when he said there's no reason to throw a jab at the time he said it. Every fighter you train with is dumber than tim sylvia who defended a ufc title with jabs
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May 8, 2017 21:47
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Skip My Posts posted:ouch my foot. drat he's droppin names It's better than going "lol no" when you only read half the post
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May 8, 2017 21:48
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Gay Horney posted:Yes like I said there are more fighters working it into their gameplan. Nate Quarry is not one of them (and neither was Jeremy to be fair) and I was talking about Bas being right when he said there's no reason to throw a jab at the time he said it. drat don't back pedal and change waht you said now dude or you spit on the lessons of every legendary fighter with whom you train with on a daily basis
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May 8, 2017 21:50
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Well i mean there is some truth to that idea that with smaller gloves and all the options you have in MMA its not as appealing to just flick out a boxing style jab to feel the guy out. Back in the Vitor/Wanderlei/etc days when lots of the best strikers were guys who would just blitz you with power shots. Lots of guys got punished for lovely jabs. But of course the solution isnt to never throw a straight punch with your lead hand its to adapt it to MMA and get good at it like GSP
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May 8, 2017 21:50
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Bundt Cake posted:Every fighter you train with is dumber than tim sylvia who defended a ufc title with jabs lol but to be fair remember when he threw a lazy jab against Ray Mercer and got knocked out by an overhand
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May 8, 2017 21:51
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Am I loving crazy or did Luke Rockhold just lose his championship off of a jab? Diaz hosed Michael Johnson up off of his jab too. GSP's hopping jab (one of maybe a half dozen jabs in his arsenal) where he was able to almost leave his feet because he knew he wasn't going to get wrestled is a great example of what I'm talking about actually. There is a lot more to working a jab into a fight than "just throw the jab" is all I'm saying
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May 8, 2017 21:51
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you're right about luke rockhold for sure lol but that was the most lackadaisical jab i ever saw in my life, he threw it with pure disdain for the effort it took
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May 8, 2017 21:53
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Stop bullying Gay Horney.
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May 8, 2017 21:53
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Bundt Cake posted:Every fighter you train with is dumber than tim sylvia who defended a ufc title with jabs We use jabs a shitload in my gym. I love the jab. I was just trying to elaborate on why it is not used more often . I definitely regret name dropping I just got mad Gay Horney fucked around with this message at 22:01 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 21:57
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Nate Quarry is from an era where concepts like "lateral footwork" and "head movement" were cutting edge
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May 8, 2017 21:59
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Gay Horney posted:Am I loving crazy or did Luke Rockhold just lose his championship off of a jab? orthodox vs. southpaw Gay Horney posted:Diaz hosed Michael Johnson up off of his jab too. Michael Johnson is very bad
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May 8, 2017 22:01
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chaleski posted:Nate Quarry is from an era where concepts like "lateral footwork" and "head movement" were cutting edge Bas is from an era where any kind of footwork or movement of any body part was a technique
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May 8, 2017 22:02
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1st AD posted:Michael Johnson is very bad about as bad as conor mcgregor.
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May 8, 2017 22:02
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Late to the discussion, but A.J. Liebling used to refer to fighters as "milling coves." Apparently "coves" just meant "boys," so "milling" referred to fighting. But we're talking some old-rear end boxing writing, so probably not relevant.quote:REPORTER AT LARGE about attending the fight between Sugar Ray Robinson & Randy Turpin at the Polo Grounds, won by Robinson in the 10th round. The writer is fond of a book called "Boxiana," by Pierce Egan-a history of the British prize ring up to 1828. In it is a description of migration to a fight in the early days. The migration would begin days in advance on foot. Later the milling coves & the flash coves (fightera & knowing boys) would set out in way along with plenty of Cyprians & blue ruin (sporting girls & gin) to keep them happy on their way. Last of all the Corinthians (masters of the fance & patrons of pugilists) would take the road in their fance traps and catch up with the others. The audiobook of A.J. Liebling's essays on boxing is quite entertaining.
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May 8, 2017 22:05
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Gay Horney posted:he's kind of right. For a lot of styles and a lot of fighters you need to be really relatively safe to throw a jab. The jab in MMA makes you vulnerable to an overhand right or cross unless you throw it perfectly. Perfectly doesn't just mean keeping your elbow tight and your knees bent it also means you have to know the distance exactly. In other words you have to set up the jab while being aware of your wrestling opportunities, his wrestling opportunities, the feet, etc. There's a loving lot of work and a lot of just circumstantial poo poo that has to come together before you can throw a truly safe jab. Many fighters would rather set up a bigger strike. U should get a job as like one of those supporting anime characters who stands on a nearby rock and narrates all of Gokus fights in dbz
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May 8, 2017 22:07
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Bundt Cake posted:he fought some guys who knew how to strike. rivera and franklin oh yeah and they loving killed him but i don't think the fact that quarry threw everything hard changed those fights at all. they were just way better. i'm not saying everyone sucked just that quarry probably had the best career he could have had.
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May 8, 2017 22:08
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Foul Fowl posted:oh yeah and they loving killed him but i don't think the fact that quarry threw everything hard changed those fights at all. they were just way better. i'm not saying everyone sucked just that quarry probably had the best career he could have had. agree. he was a bit of an older guy too i think
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May 8, 2017 22:10
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The thing with an MMA jab is that you need to keep your chin protected from way more angles than a boxing jab. That doesn't make it a worthless tool, that means you need to practice throwing it with good form thousands of times so that you don't throw a lazy one when you're tired/overconfident. Making sure your shoulder is in the right place, that your chin has tucked into the correct spot, that you have turned your body to reduce how much of your chin exposed, and so on are really important. Also actually bringing your hand back. So many guys throw jabs where the leave it out for a couple seconds and let their hand just kinda fall to their waist before bringing it back, and that's all time that half of your guard is down. As soon as someone times your jab, that sort of technique gets you put down.
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May 8, 2017 22:18
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cis autodrag posted:Also actually bringing your hand back. So many guys throw jabs where the leave it out for a couple seconds and let their hand just kinda fall to their waist before bringing it back, and that's all time that half of your guard is down. As soon as someone times your jab, that sort of technique gets you put down. Yeah I could see why your average novice striker in 00s MMA would be hesitant to add jabs to their game when "big right hand" was some fighters' entire striking game
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May 8, 2017 22:30
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The jab is like the safest, most varied and efficient strike available what the gently caress?
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May 8, 2017 22:34
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Bundt Cake posted:agree. he was a bit of an older guy too i think i watched the quarry/franklin fight not too long ago and it seems so incredibly unfair. nate has zero chance. but apparently he was 3-0 with only first round knockouts so i guess franklin was just really really good.
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May 8, 2017 22:34
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Tezcatlipoca posted:The jab is like the safest, most varied and efficient strike available what the gently caress? From what I read about that quote from Bas the idea was that the risk of throwing a jab isn't worth the small reward for landing it. The small gloves offer less protection and defensive opportunity, there's the threat of the takedown, and so on. A jab might be safer than a hook, but a bad hook can still KO somebody, whereas a bad jab won't. And you don't need it to open up someone's defenses as much as you do in boxing since you can more easily get around the small gloves (paraphrasing from what I read, not claiming to be an expert of any sort). I don't personally agree with it, particularly since there's a lot of proof that it can be used to great advantage, but I can see what he's getting at.
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May 8, 2017 22:46
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Bas also said elbows are cheap because they only cut and never KOd anyone (to ricco rodriguez who kod randy with elbows)
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May 8, 2017 22:50
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manyak posted:lol but to be fair remember when he threw a lazy jab against Ray Mercer and got knocked out by an overhand It was like watching a tree fall
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May 8, 2017 22:51
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Gzuz-Kriced posted:From what I read about that quote from Bas the idea was that the risk of throwing a jab isn't worth the small reward for landing it. I distinctly remember Bas one time saying something along the lines of "why throw a jab when you can just try to knock them out instead?"
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May 8, 2017 22:51
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