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jivjov posted:Uhh...you know he was just continuing the cover story Bill ad-libbed, right? Jerusalem posted:Bill mentions that she has no pictures of her mother, then goes home where suddenly a box of photos of her mother have been discovered and one of them has a reflection of the Doctor. The idea is pretty clearly supposed to be that he jumped in the TARDIS, went back and befriended Bill's mom and took a bunch of photos of her so he could gift them to Bill as a Christmas Present. Just kind of thinking aloud here, I mean, the biggest objection isn't that its improbable or that the foreshadowing is too obvious, its that "this character that we've just met is actually a Time Lord" has been used...at least twice so far? I think that Bill is actually Susan about as much as I think that Captain Jack is really the Face of Boe.
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May 8, 2017 03:24
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Yvonmukluk posted:It doesn't work on wood. I dunno, they weren't wood, they were bugs. Besides, it's high pitched sounds, and that's mainly what a sonic screwdriver is for.  I'm leaning towards the idea that it's the SImm Master in the vault. At first with the zany piano playing over the idea of "dead young people" I saw Missy, but then I thought that it would make sense for the Doctor to go out of his way to keep the Simm Master locked up if he ran across him. Imagine he meets Missy, knowing she's some future regeneration of The Master who escaped Gallifrey and Rassilon; then runs across the Simm Master unregenerated and knowing nothing about the fact that there's another version of himself gadding about the 12th Doctor's timeline? He'd lock him up in a secure vault and sequester him forthwith until he figured out what to do and stop them from teaming up!
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May 8, 2017 04:06
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Oh god, I just realized the best/worst outcome; Simms Master dies midway/near the end of the multi-Master story and The Doctor has to contend with two Missy's.
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May 8, 2017 04:09
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Missy and Simm!Master flirt and team up, then Missy KILLS Simm!Master because they can't get along, creating herself.
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May 8, 2017 04:15
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DoctorWhat posted:Missy and Simm!Master flirt and team up, then Missy KILLS Simm!Master because they can't get along, creating herself. I swear one of these days I will somehow get my story where two Masters team up and betray each other, and the younger Master somehow gets the upper hand on the older version despite the older version knowing EXACTLY what the younger one is going to do. 
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May 8, 2017 04:44
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The bugs were activated by high pitched noise, not controlled by it. Sonicing it would probably just make it worse.
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May 8, 2017 05:05
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The_Doctor posted:Honestly, who looks for a 6 bedroom place? You're all going to end up hating Pavel and his late night DJ sets. Just look for a couple of 3 beds close to eachother. Be sensible, guys! I just assumed the UK has no housing offices like we do, that just list all available student rooms on the website, and you can apply for a visit and an interview with the people currently living there, and if you like each other that's your room. Walking around with some sort of landlord guy checking out houses? Never seen anything like that before. Probably some UKism.
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May 8, 2017 06:54
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First rule of housing in the UK: everything's hosed, yo.Namtab posted:You're kinda pushing it a bit with the first of the three The episode where humans got turned into fertiliser?
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May 8, 2017 07:43
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A quick look at Rightmove for the Bristol area tells me 6, 8, and even 12 bed places are available, surprisingly. That estate agent clearly wasn't trying very hard. This place looks nicely creepy by dint of being several houses pushed together, but more in a dreary murderhouse kind of way.
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May 8, 2017 08:20
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Carbon dioxide posted:I just assumed the UK has no housing offices like we do, that just list all available student rooms on the website, and you can apply for a visit and an interview with the people currently living there, and if you like each other that's your room. That'd be the real estate agent, acting on behalf of the property owners. Anything the tenants need goes through them rather than the owner directly, and they can arrange things like plumbers or electricians on the owner's behalf.
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May 8, 2017 08:45
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Simms Master being in the vault would line up with him being all beardy. Edit: As for this episode, I enjoyed it except for the resolution not feeling satisfying. There could have been a great moral about moving on and letting go but it just didn't sit quite right. Also how did no-one come searching the house after 6 kids kept vanishing there every couple of decades, were they all abandoned orphans or something? As is my usual habit, a suggested alternate ending: All the people are still there, frozen in the fabric of the house. With the reveal that she is the mother and not the daughter, Eliza is stunned that her child is so old, and has wasted his life away clinging to her when she should have died of old age long ago anyway. The landlord begs her to change her mind but she insists it's over, with some cheesy listen to your mother line. She dissolves, the house starts shaking and they all flee. As the house collapses in front of them Bills housemates emerge from the cloud of dust, followed by three other confused groups in various out of date clothing styles. The Doctor looks at the out of time groups and remarks to Bill that he's coming round to her idea of using the TARDIS to make deliveries. Bill asks aren't they going to do anything about the landlord and the Doctor simply replies no, he's already done enough to himself, his life wasted away chasing something that could never truly be. They all walk away, leaving the lonely elderly boy staring despondent at the ruins. Senor Tron fucked around with this message at 09:42 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 08:55
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Aardark posted:Did their budget get cut? It's all dimly lit rooms. Cleretic posted:I'm not sure if you're serious (it's an old and lovely house at night, of course it's all dimly lit), I wouldn't be surprised if this was something of a bottle episode. Not for all departments--it had a fairly large 'active cast' compared to everything else so far--but I wouldn't be surprised if it was sort of a break for the set designers so they could focus their energies on some of the more elaborate settings for this season. Exactly. Did you not see the last episode or something, yeah? I'm not going to tell you how many tens of thousands the London sets cost but it was a significant number
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May 8, 2017 11:16
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BSam posted:Curious echoplex, in an episode without much in the way of screens and monitors, or signs and that, did you guys do much? I've been doing twitter roundups of episode graphics after every ep, I really struggled finding anything to post on this one. There was stuff like researching and recreating period contracts, doing up the estate agents as you said, phone apps (none of which get seen but we do make interactive apps for every scripted phone sequence), and then minor stuff like the door numbers on the rooms etc. The painting of the mother was mixed duty - we re-arranged the Doctor's Office set for the backdrop - I shot and lit it (which is weird how that always comes down to the graphics guy) and then the concept artist painted over in photoshop. TV shows are shot in 'blocks' of eps and on DW we usually did 2 eps per block, so this was 'twinned' with Thin Ice in terms of workload, and right after this one we shot the Xmas ep that went out last year. Both of these were super-intensive episodes in every way so Knock Knock was kind of a 'breather' episode - it was mostly on location except the tower room and didn't require too many graphics. Xmas looked fairly contemporary but it was a huge amount of work.
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May 8, 2017 11:29
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echoplex posted:I've been doing twitter roundups of episode graphics after every ep, I really struggled finding anything to post on this one. There was stuff like researching and recreating period contracts, doing up the estate agents as you said, phone apps (none of which get seen but we do make interactive apps for every scripted phone sequence), and then minor stuff like the door numbers on the rooms etc. The painting of the mother was mixed duty - we re-arranged the Doctor's Office set for the backdrop - I shot and lit it (which is weird how that always comes down to the graphics guy) and then the concept artist painted over in photoshop. Love that you can be so open about production stuff here. Also guess it makes sense it felt different since Christmas special and all but surprised to hear production of that happened after this.
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May 8, 2017 12:04
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I was going to say that Simm's Master being in the Vault seems a bit obvious, but then I remembered "Missy is a female Master" was a bit obvious as well and it didn't really matter in the end. Anyway, Big Finish's Short Trip contest for this year is up! I'm sure this thread has loads of exciting ideas to submit this year. vegetables fucked around with this message at 12:24 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 12:20
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echoplex posted:<snip> phone apps (none of which get seen but we do make interactive apps for every scripted phone sequence) </snip> The whole thing is cool and I echo the fact it's great that you can talk in so much detail about the work. The phone thing just reminded me of the work of putting in all these little details, which add up to making everything seem more natural and real. I remember from the Chip & Ironicus LP of Uncharted 4, they use Sony phones (of course) and the LP shows that, with some loving about in photo mode, you can see the phone UI and it's actually a correct, working, Sony phone UI. Just because they knew someone would look for it!
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May 8, 2017 12:31
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echoplex posted:I've been doing twitter roundups of episode graphics after every ep, I really struggled finding anything to post on this one. There was stuff like researching and recreating period contracts, doing up the estate agents as you said, phone apps (none of which get seen but we do make interactive apps for every scripted phone sequence), and then minor stuff like the door numbers on the rooms etc. The painting of the mother was mixed duty - we re-arranged the Doctor's Office set for the backdrop - I shot and lit it (which is weird how that always comes down to the graphics guy) and then the concept artist painted over in photoshop. I do want to say it wasn't until you started posting stuff like this that I really appreciated the effort that went into things like set design for Doctor Who. Future and alien stuff I could tell was some real work, but I never thought about how much effort goes into recreating a time period based largely on contemporary art, or mocking up believable modern-day background details. And as someone who works within app development, I love that you make apps specifically for scenes where they might be needed.
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May 8, 2017 12:45
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They at least show a bit of Bill searching for the news on the monster at the end of E3, so that's nice. There's a number of reasons for doing them for real, not least that we can set the sequence as a loop so the actor can just tap their way through it for each take rather than needing the props guys to reset it. We made a camera app for 2 to disguise the phone's OS (as we're BBC) which was a real ballache and not in the edit. This is a new addition for S10, on S9 I was just knocking out JPGs so there's a scene in the Zygon ep where Osgood "types" a text message and the picture viewer menu is visible for a split second  Cleretic posted:I do want to say it wasn't until you started posting stuff like this that I really appreciated the effort that went into stuff around set design for Doctor Who. Future and alien stuff I could tell was some real work, but I never thought about how much effort goes into recreating a time period based largely on contemporary art, or mocking up believable modern-day background details. I've been trying to promote the heck out my work on the last 2 series because a) not much is made of the art dept work beyond concept art*, and b) graphics specifically is doing so much more work than 5-10 years ago, so it's kind of a case of trying to raise the profile of what goes on day to day to make TV happen. I've been doing this for years and even I'm amazed that DW actually happens, because we do it so quickly and usually from scratch. Back in the mid-90s, Graphics was using Letraset and handworking things. Doing video screens, phones, printed carpets + walls, perspex, laser cut and CNC'd signs etc just wasn't part of it. I've religiously photographed all the sets I've worked on, because stuff that doesn't make the edit can just disappear forever. *Not that I have any beef with concept artists at all, super envious of their talents. But I've noticed over the last few years a lot of "Making Of" or "Art Of" books are full of digital paintings and very little in the way of props, actual sets or graphics, which is a shame. I don't know if it's because the digital assets are easy to get hold of vs photographing items etc, but there's plenty of design decisions involved beyond the concept art, and lots of stories there too. As for being open about stuff - this definitely isn't secret information, it's just not promoted. It's sad they don't do Confidential any more - even a one-episode round up for each series would be neat. I noticed that the BBC galleries sometimes post mine/the concept artist's work, but crop off our names from the drawing stamp. echoplex fucked around with this message at 12:59 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 12:54
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Senor Tron posted:Love that you can be so open about production stuff here. Also guess it makes sense it felt different since Christmas special and all but surprised to hear production of that happened after this. The Doctor Who production staff tends to be very open about stuff; DWM wouldn't have as many pages as it did if they weren't!
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May 8, 2017 14:51
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echoplex posted:
I can imagine it's so much more work than it used to be. It's interesting now to go back and watch stuff from the 80s and 90s - in Jurassic Park, every scene where Nedry is supposedly talking to someone on camera, you can see that it's just a re-recorded Quicktime video he's responding to. Nobody blinked an eye then, but you'd never get away with it today. All the proprietary phone apps and the stuff on computer screens being an actual custom app is something I never even thought about how hard it would be to do.
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May 8, 2017 15:24
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Pfft, we all used to type texts in Excel.
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May 8, 2017 15:26
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The least realistic part of the episode was where six students who got a good house on the cheap were willing to abandon it just because is was trying to kill them
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May 8, 2017 16:14
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Gum posted:The least realistic part of the episode was where six students who got a good house on the cheap were willing to abandon it just because is was trying to kill them If some of them die, they can't pay rent.
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May 8, 2017 17:09
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Is developing a custom app cheaper than cgi at this point? Or is it just more flexible? Either way, fascinating.
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May 8, 2017 17:14
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hanales posted:Is developing a custom app cheaper than cgi at this point? Or is it just more flexible? Considerably.
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May 8, 2017 18:45
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hanales posted:Is developing a custom app cheaper than cgi at this point? Or is it just more flexible? It's incredibly simple to make a sort of mock-up demo app that just cycles through a bunch of screens as you tap certain parts of the screen. It's used by software companies to show customers "we're working on this right now, does this look good? We'll let you know when the app is actually functional."
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May 8, 2017 19:07
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Carbon dioxide posted:It's incredibly simple to make a sort of mock-up demo app that just cycles through a bunch of screens as you tap certain parts of the screen. It's used by software companies to show customers "we're working on this right now, does this look good? We'll let you know when the app is actually functional." Sure I was just wondering if it was cheaper to hire a code wonk or a cgi wonk, since that's not a huge project on that side either.
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May 8, 2017 19:17
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hanales posted:Sure I was just wondering if it was cheaper to hire a code wonk or a cgi wonk, since that's not a huge project on that side either. I have A Guy who has been my go-to for involved motion graphics or APK-based apps for a couple of years (DW, Red Dwarf, etc). All the design side stuff comes from me, who is paid for in the show budget, and then he does the coding as a supplier with a day rate. Way way cheaper than handing it to the post department (mostly), as then facilities + people are booked up. I don't know because I've never asked but I would assume the show budgets a set amount of post per episode, in terms of man hours and workflow, so the art dept interfering with that is presumably frowned upon. It doesn't cost much to comp a phone screen in, true, but the stby art directors/actual episode directors/DPs etc tend to like to have real screens generating real light/interactivity, and generally it's better to have something real on screen if not just for the actor to interact/thumb to. edit: here's the phone sequence flow from Ep 3 - most of which was unseen. I design the layouts in AI, and send it with annotations to my animator. Usually no more than a day my end and a day his end. 
echoplex fucked around with this message at 20:11 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 20:00
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How much does an average episode of Doctor Who typically cost to produce? I've heard £800,000 but that seems low to me (maybe I'm overestimating how expensive everything is) and I imagine it must be one of the Beeb's more expensive programmes.
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May 8, 2017 20:12
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Wheat Loaf posted:How much does an average episode of Doctor Who typically cost to produce? I've heard £800,000 but that seems low to me (maybe I'm overestimating how expensive everything is) and I imagine it must be one of the Beeb's more expensive programmes. No idea, to be honest. I couldn't even tell you if my specific budget was about right because whether you have £10 or £100m it always feels like it's 10% less than you actually need...
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May 8, 2017 20:15
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echoplex posted:No idea, to be honest. I couldn't even tell you if my specific budget was about right because whether you have £10 or £100m it always feels like it's 10% less than you actually need... Now THAT is the Doctor Who tradition
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May 8, 2017 20:16
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Wheat Loaf posted:How much does an average episode of Doctor Who typically cost to produce? I've heard £800,000 but that seems low to me (maybe I'm overestimating how expensive everything is) and I imagine it must be one of the Beeb's more expensive programmes. £800,000 is an average. Some episodes, like this one, would be cheaper and have less of that share. Season 5 from my understanding was averaging out at about 1.5 million per episode with significantly more spent on the Angels two parter filmed before anything else. Oops.
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May 8, 2017 20:40
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The_Doctor posted:A quick look at Rightmove for the Bristol area tells me 6, 8, and even 12 bed places are available, surprisingly. That estate agent clearly wasn't trying very hard. okay I can see that for McGann and Smith, but I wouldn't want to tell C-Bakes I sold his place while he was on trial
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May 8, 2017 20:47
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PriorMarcus posted:£800,000 is an average. Some episodes, like this one, would be cheaper and have less of that share. Right, I see. I think I've heard something similar about season one: I remember reading (I can't remember if it's in The Writer's Tale because I've not read it in ages) that nobody on the programme in 2005 had any experience running a science-fiction show, so they ended up using most of the season's effects budget on "The End of the World".
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May 8, 2017 20:59
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Echoplex, ever thought of releasing a coffee table style book out of your set photos? I would buy the ever loving poo poo out of something like that. I am fascinated by "makings of" or behind the scenes stuff, and love reading your posts here after each episode.
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May 8, 2017 21:10
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Red is Dead posted:
Yeah, it's cool because it doesn't have any of the gross, telling-tales-out-of-school/ "oh, that's how the sausage is made" stuff, but it has more substantive information than the sort of celebrity fluff in a lot of "behind the scenes" bits that goes out to Amazon or whatever. It's like having free DVD commentary, right here in the thread!
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May 8, 2017 21:54
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echoplex posted:I have A Guy who has been my go-to for involved motion graphics or APK-based apps for a couple of years (DW, Red Dwarf, etc). All the design side stuff comes from me, who is paid for in the show budget, and then he does the coding as a supplier with a day rate. Way way cheaper than handing it to the post department (mostly), as then facilities + people are booked up. I don't know because I've never asked but I would assume the show budgets a set amount of post per episode, in terms of man hours and workflow, so the art dept interfering with that is presumably frowned upon. The most important question: How do you decide what percentage the battery is at in your mock phone screens? I bet people complain if it's too low or too high.
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May 8, 2017 22:32
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Chokes McGee posted:okay I can see that for McGann and Smith, but I wouldn't want to tell C-Bakes I sold his place while he was on trial INT. TARDIS Mel, Peri, and the Seventh Doctor watching the Public Register on the scanner. Headlines, all Six. The Sixth Doctor enters quietly. Loud cathedral music from the cloister room prevents anyone from hearing him. Six: Hi. Hi. Hi there, my P and M. All three look up startled. Mel: Doctor! Six (to Mel): Hullo love, how are you? (kisses her) Nice to see you, Peri. Peri: Hullo, Doctor. What a... surprise, good to see you. Six: Keeping fit then? Peri (very ill at ease): Fine, fine. Six: Well, how are you then? Peri: Oh fine, fine. Keeping out of trouble, you know. Six: Well, I'm back. Peri (with feigned enthusiasm): Aye. Glad to see you back, Doctor. Mel: Why didn't you let us know what was happening, Doctor? Six: Sorry, M, I wanted it to be like... a big surprise for you and P. Peri: Well, it's a surprise all right, a bit bewildering, too. Mel: We've only just read about it on the Register. Peri: Aye. You should have let us know, Doctor, not that we're not very pleased to see you again. All cured too, eh? Six: That's right, Peri, they did a great job on my gulliver. I'm completely reformed. Peri: Aye. Six (looks round the console room): Well, still the same old place then, eh? Peri: Oh, aye, aye. Six (fake whisper): Hey, Peri, there's a strange fella standing at the console there munchy-wunching lomticks of toast. Peri: Aye, that's the Doctor. He... ummmm, lives here now. The lodger. That's what he is... he... he rents your room. Six confronts Seven. Six: How do you do, Doctor? Find the room comfortable, do you? No complaints? Seven: I've heard about you. I know what you've done. Breaking the hearts of your poor grieving companions. So you're back? You're back to make a life of misery for your lovely companions, is that it? Well, over my regenerated corpse you will, because you see, they've let me be more like a Professor to them than like a lodger! Six cocks his fist and starts to retch violently, almost at the same moment Seven goes back to the console next to Mel. Mel: Doctor! Doctor! Don't fight here, boys! Six: burps and retches. Seven: Oh, please. Do put your hand over your mouth, it's bloody revolting. Six violently ill. Peri: Well, what's the matter, Doctor, are you feeling alright? Mel: Peri... It's the treatment. More retching. Seven: Well, it's disgusting. It puts you off your food. Mel: Leave him be, Doctor. It's the treatment. Peri: D'you think we should do something? Mel: Would you like me to make you a nice cup of tea, Doctor? Six: No thanks, Peri . It'll pass in a minute... (after a pause) ... What have you done with all my own personal things? Peri: Well. That was all took away, Doctor, by the Chancellery Guard. New regulation about compensation for the victim. Six: What about Davros?! Where's my megalomaniac?! Peri: Oh well, he met with like an accident. He passed away. Six becomes a bit weepy. Six: What's gonna happen to me then? I mean that's my TARDIS he's in, there's no denying that. This is my home also. What suggestions have you, my P and M, to make? Peri: Well, all this needs thinking about, Doctor. I mean we can't very well just kick the Doctor out... Not just like that, can we? I mean the Doctor is here doing a job. A contract it is, three years. Well, we made like an arrangement, didn't we Doctor? You see, Doctor, the Doctor's paid next month's rent already so, well, whatever we do in the future, we cant just say to the Doctor to get out, now can we? Seven: No, there's much more than that, though. I mean I've got you two to think of. I mean, you're more like companions to me. Well, it wouldn't be fair now, would it, for me to go off and leave you two to the tender mercies of this young monster who's been like no real Time Lord at all. Look, let him go off and find a room somewhere. Let him learn the errors of his way, and that a bad boy like he's been don't deserve such good companions as he's had. Six: Alright. I see how things are now. I've suffered and I've suffered, and I've suffered and everybody wants me to go on suffering. Seven: You've made others suffer. It's only fair that you should suffer proper. You know I've been told everything you've done, standing here round the TARDIS console, pretty shocking it was to listen to. It made me real sick, a lot of it did. Now look what you've gone and done to your companion. Mel bursts into tears. Six: So that's the way it is then, eh? That's the way it is. Right, I'm leaving now, you won't ever viddy me no more. I'll make my own way. Thank you very much. Let it lie heavy on your consciences. The Sixth Doctor exits. Peri (shouting after him): Now don't take it like that, Doctor! Mel boohoohoos, the Seventh Doctor comforts her.
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May 9, 2017 00:34
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echoplex posted:whether you have £10 or £100m This being Doctor Who, I know which one it probably is! 
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May 9, 2017 00:34
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I thought that was a good episode. There were some genuinely creepy moments and the writing felt fairly real. I liked the use of 3D audio during that one scene with all the knocking coming from the ceiling. The main weakness was the twist, it felt irrelevant and the previous theory (dying daughter) hadn't been established enough for its overturning to be exciting. e: between the last two episodes this series seems a bit more political than usual too. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 00:46 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 00:43
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