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psy.Che posted:Are German cruisers and BBs fun to play and able to compete? I've played IJN and USN when the open beta started for a few months, and wanted to try something new as I give this game another chance. Also I'm German, so I can't wait to have my brilliantly engineered Königstiger of the seas. German ships almost always do something different than their counterparts are supposed to. USN and IJN BBs are long to mid range snipers that punish enemy broadsides and hunt cruisers. You can't show your own broadside though because of citadels. German BBs are close range brawlers that can show a lot of side without suffering instant death but can't really punish mistakes well because of comparatively poor accuracy of their big guns. Most cruisers are HE DPS spammers that operate mid range and punish DDs. German cruisers for the most part are long range AP snipers that crush enemy cruisers at range but are worse off at hunting DDs becuase they have low damage HE and have comparatively fewer guns on most tiers.
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May 9, 2017 01:32
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MikeC posted:German ships almost always do something different than their counterparts are supposed to. Also talking of german BBs, starting at the gneis, one should invest into a full on secondary build. Because nothing is more hilarious than devouring enemy ships that get too close. Flamu posted a video last week where he got put into a vrey heavy t10 match in his tirpitz (as in, the only other t8 on the team was a benson). He waltzed out alive with witherer and arsonist from the secondary spam that went down.
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May 9, 2017 01:49
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lol I still have a murmansk
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May 9, 2017 02:11
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psy.Che posted:Are German cruisers and BBs fun to play and able to compete? I've played IJN and USN when the open beta started for a few months, and wanted to try something new as I give this game another chance. Also I'm German, so I can't wait to have my brilliantly engineered Königstiger of the seas. The German battleship line is the best at every tier except tier from 4 to 8, where the German premium Scharnhorst is better then the Gneisenau. The Bismark is amazing if you go secondaries, since you can just click on someone and watch them get lit up from 10k out. They are hard to kill, but don't really deliver a ton of damage, since they generally have less guns then a equal tier ship. The G-Wagon in particular suffers from this, as it only has 3 turrets. But you get torps and can go over 30kts, so charge enemy battleships and watch them panic. Cruisers are fine if you are top tier, or people don't shoot at you for some reason. They have really nice DPS, nice hard hitting AP and pretty mobile. They also have terrible armor which makes them explody, and bad HE which can limit damage when dealing with BBs. The Yorck is a US cruiser mistakenly dropped into the tree, as it has floaty shells and likes using HE.
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May 9, 2017 02:57
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CitizenKain posted:They also have terrible armor which makes them explody, If by terrible you mean best from tier 7 up apart from Moskva, then yes
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May 9, 2017 03:03
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You're crazy pills if you think german CAs from 8+ have bad armor. The Yorck.. maybe (I'd say it rates with the Myoko tbh), but the Hipper/Roon/Hindenburg? They can take hits that even IJN CAs wouldn't dream of surviving. Only the Atago can compete with its tier counterpart, and thats because it has repair. They have their shortcomings, but being survivable isn't one of them ...did I just agree with NTRabbit? I did, didn't I?
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May 9, 2017 03:21
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Ah yes, a whopping one third of the tree's ships has some armor, so obviously you can't say that German cruisers tend to be fragile, because obviously the top tiers are the only ones that matter right
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May 9, 2017 03:28
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I feel like I almost never cit the Yorck, it's citadel must be super low. Roon printed Dreadnought medals for me like mad.
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May 9, 2017 03:29
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T10 and I still haven't learned apparently http://i.imgur.com/kFcbsZf.gifv I clicked to issue the order to strafe, but since I clicked on the order triangle itself instead of issuing the order the game just goes "oh you want to drag your movement order around?" Causing what should have been a sick nasty strafe to not happen.  I really need to get into the habit of issuing alt-attacks with right-mouse just so this never happens.Heartcatch posted:There are some rather strict caveats for that to happen, however. CitizenKain posted:The Yorck is a US cruiser mistakenly dropped into the tree, as it has floaty shells and likes using HE.
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May 9, 2017 03:40
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Obligatory obligatory exploding Nurnberg. That said, the Hindenburg and Roon are most excellent.
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May 9, 2017 03:45
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US AP is really good. German AP doesn't have nearly the normalization or pen at range.
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May 9, 2017 03:46
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Nordick posted:Ah yes, a whopping one third of the tree's ships has some armor, so obviously you can't say that German cruisers tend to be fragile, because obviously the top tiers are the only ones that matter right CAs at T6 and less don't really have ARMOR so to speak, so much as its based on citadel placement, which falls to basically the Cleveland as the only T6 and below ship that is "armored". T7+ is when you get a very clear distinction between cruisers that can bounce poo poo, and cruisers that can't.
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May 9, 2017 04:22
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Hazdoc posted:CAs at T6 and less don't really have ARMOR so to speak, so much as its based on citadel placement, which falls to basically the Cleveland as the only T6 and below ship that is "armored". T7+ is when you get a very clear distinction between cruisers that can bounce poo poo, and cruisers that can't.
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May 9, 2017 04:28
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Nordick posted:Fine, whatever, pretend I said "durability" then. My point was that people judging ship/tank lines in this and World of Tanks just based on the last couple tiers, as if everything lower was irrelevant, is a pet peeve of mine. If you play a line to tier 10, the 8 and 9 are probably where you'll spend more than half your time.
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May 9, 2017 04:45
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The Nurnberg sapped a lot of my will away from wanting to play that line. However, I've now finished it and...the Yorck is a HE spammer so either sub-optimal captain or respec. Which is also somewhat annoying.
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May 9, 2017 04:53
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Nordick posted:Ah yes, a whopping one third of the tree's ships has some armor, so obviously you can't say that German cruisers tend to be fragile, because obviously the top tiers are the only ones that matter right Well i'd have to agree with the other posters that the German cruisers are overall "tougher". I dont know if its the turtleback design, but they feel relatively hard to delete or get consistent citadels. The only other cruiser that felt sturdy at all was the old Cleveland when it had a tiny split citadel way below the waterline. And if you play up a line to Tier 10, you probably spend more than 75% of your games in those Tier 7-10 ships. Sure the tier 5 and 6 ships are flimsy, but so is pretty much every cruiser in that band.
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May 9, 2017 05:03
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The Nurnberg's citadel top can be overmatched by every BB except the scharn, which makes it somewhat uniquely fragile.
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May 9, 2017 05:15
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wdarkk posted:US AP is really good. German AP doesn't have nearly the normalization or pen at range. When it hits though..... German CAs for the most part have the flat arcs that allow you to reliably target and hit the weak sections of BB belt armor. I just managed to Citadel a bloody Gnei just now with a Hipper.
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May 9, 2017 05:45
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Lakedaimon posted:Well i'd have to agree with the other posters that the German cruisers are overall "tougher". I dont know if its the turtleback design, but they feel relatively hard to delete or get consistent citadels. The only other cruiser that felt sturdy at all was the old Cleveland when it had a tiny split citadel way below the waterline. And if you play up a line to Tier 10, you probably spend more than 75% of your games in those Tier 7-10 ships. I don't know if they did any other changes to Cleveland's armour model since I took a large break soon after launch, but I'm more inclined to believe that people just got better at aiming. Remember that back then the average skill base was even lower than it is now, and you could dodge shots just by kicking the rudder hard in one direction most of the time because the average player just did not know how to compensate for turns. wdarkk posted:US AP is really good. German AP doesn't have nearly the normalization or pen at range. MikeC posted:When it hits though..... German CAs for the most part have the flat arcs that allow you to reliably target and hit the weak sections of BB belt armor. I just managed to Citadel a bloody Gnei just now with a Hipper. Also I know most people complain about the T9+ arcs on US CAs but I personally find them to be an asset rather than a detriment. Slinging shells over mountains with possible retaliation is great, and the very steep angles they come down in means that you can get full pens and citadels at really odd angles. I've gotten an absurd amount of full pens on DDs with AP (since I usually have AP loaded by default and I might as well shoot to switch to HE) in my Baltimore when I expect overpens, and it's always hilarious to land citadels on heavily angled CAs at range because you just drop it through the deck.
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May 9, 2017 06:16
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Complaining that only 1/3 of the German cruiser tree has good armor is a bit dumb when everything through T6 is a light cruiser, which by definition have utterly horrid armor regardless of nation and the T7 falls into the same trap as the Pensacola in being a heavy cruiser designed under the auspices of the Washington Naval Treaty (yes, yes, the Yorck a paper design. It's still implemented with those restraints). Their actual heavy cruisers, from T8+, have very good armor when matched up against the heavy cruisers of other nations.
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May 9, 2017 06:23
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Lord Koth posted:Complaining that only 1/3 of the German cruiser tree has good armor is a bit dumb when everything through T6 is a light cruiser, which by definition have utterly horrid armor regardless of nation and the T7 falls into the same trap as the Pensacola in being a heavy cruiser designed under the auspices of the Washington Naval Treaty (yes, yes, the Yorck a paper design. It's still implemented with those restraints). Their actual heavy cruisers, from T8+, have very good armor when matched up against the heavy cruisers of other nations. The Yorck still just marginally shades the Myoko for best armour in tier though, and they can both take a hit if you angle right, whereas Fiji, Pensacola, and Schors can be citadeled from any angle by just about anything.
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May 9, 2017 06:49
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 I started the match by saying "this boat is cancer". Sure was proven right.
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May 9, 2017 07:33
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MikeC posted:German ships almost always do something different than their counterparts are supposed to. Many thanks for all the info, guys. How are the British ships in comparison?
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May 9, 2017 09:39
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psy.Che posted:Many thanks for all the info, guys. How are the British ships in comparison? Excellent. If you know what you're doing. They are very unforgiving though. edit: also the line is complete and total garbage till tier 6, and only really gets good at tier 7+
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May 9, 2017 09:52
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psy.Che posted:Many thanks for all the info, guys. How are the British ships in comparison? They have no HE shells, big citadels, and no armour, but they still have torps, get a special kind of AP, accelerate to top speed faster than destroyers, don't lose speed in turns, generate smoke, and have hydro. Lots of tools, but really easy to get turbofucked if you make a mistake.
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May 9, 2017 10:03
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Hazdoc posted:
The Gneisenau is the least enjoyable boat in the entire game, second only to the Izumo. You just can't do anything. Your tools only work if you yolo in really hard, but in at least 75% of all matches that just gets you killed for nothing. So instead you get to try to sit at range where you also do nothing because your guns don't work and you take a billion damage from everything. People go "oh it goes 30 knots, you can rush battleships", but have you ever actually tried to chase something running away from you at 20 knots in something that does 30? It takes for loving ever, and forget torping it. There's not exactly a ton of things that are actually that slow at tier 6-9 either, it's mostly just the US BB's, and a competent Colorado just kicks the poo poo out of you unless you manage to ambush him. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 10:54 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 10:49
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TheFluff posted:The Gneisenau is the least enjoyable boat in the entire game, second only to the Izumo. You just can't do anything. Your tools only work if you yolo in really hard, but in at least 75% of all matches that just gets you killed for nothing. So instead you get to try to sit at range where you also do nothing because your guns don't work and you take a billion damage from everything. People go "oh it goes 30 knots, you can rush battleships", but have you ever actually tried to chase something running away from you at 20 knots in something that does 30? It takes for loving ever, and forget torping it. There's not exactly a ton of things that are actually that slow at tier 6-9 either, it's mostly just the US BB's, and a competent Colorado just kicks the poo poo out of you unless you manage to ambush him. funny you should mention that, because one of my kills was a Colorado that tried to kite me and rammed an island and my torps The Gneisnau is certainly not the strongest T7 BB, that goes cleanly to Nagato, but in random pub matches? The troll armor, torps, and high speed mean you can get away with a lot of mistakes and faceroll baddies for making their own.
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May 9, 2017 11:06
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Nah he's right, the Gneisenau is a pretty bad ship; on top of the really ordinary main guns, even the secondaries with the start of your secondary build for Bismarck, Freddy, and the Great Sausage aren't very good. Colorado is the strongest T7 BB and it shits all over the Gneis when not driven by a potato, because you can play it short range and long - Gneis only works at yolo range, and how often do you get a team that will actually support you rather than edgehump? Only thing it has going for it is better AA for handling Saipans.
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May 9, 2017 11:09
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TheFluff posted:The Gneisenau is the least enjoyable boat in the entire game, second only to the Izumo. You just can't do anything. Your tools only work if you yolo in really hard, but in at least 75% of all matches that just gets you killed for nothing. So instead you get to try to sit at range where you also do nothing because your guns don't work and you take a billion damage from everything. People go "oh it goes 30 knots, you can rush battleships", but have you ever actually tried to chase something running away from you at 20 knots in something that does 30? It takes for loving ever, and forget torping it. There's not exactly a ton of things that are actually that slow at tier 6-9 either, it's mostly just the US BB's, and a competent Colorado just kicks the poo poo out of you unless you manage to ambush him. 100% this. I just got through the slog that was the Gneisenau and the amount of pure rage it gave me was chart topping. You cant really brawl all that well because most other BBs end up German and they have torps of their own. Cant brawl against a cruiser because your guns are pathetic. In any other BB a cruiser showing its full broadside at under 10km would get dunked on, not with the Gneisenau. I lost track of how many easy cruiser kills I should have had but instead got to watch my salvo fly all over the loving place at point blank range, which then ends with me eating a spread of torps. It was one of the worst experiences I've had with this game. But the long nightmare is over and I can be happy again.
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May 9, 2017 11:48
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I keep getting Okinawa with T9's in it 
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May 9, 2017 11:59
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Lately I've been playing a lot of destroyers, so much so that when I hopped in my Scharnhorst for a quick match (and it was quick) that I had forgotten how annoying it is to be permanently spotted and drowned by a constant stream of incoming fire. Going back to EZ mode IJN DDs 
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May 9, 2017 12:08
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Konig Albert trip report: complete troll boat. 
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May 9, 2017 12:18
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The only time the gneis really showed off to me was in a storm. Pouncing enemy BBs because of that reduced range was the only time it worked. But like said, that means ambushing.
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May 9, 2017 14:23
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The Gneisenau is a good ship. It's a Swiss Army Knife, it's fast, has armor, torps, secondaries, decent AA. I don't know why people can't appreciate it: it's like a Scharnhorst, with guns that punch harder and reload a tad slower.
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May 9, 2017 15:31
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Punching harder means nothing when you straddle that Colorado at 7km. I just finished that ship and I'm warming up a Bismarck in co-op now. Not terribly impressed but I'll keep trying. For me this line really peaked at the Bayern but I'm a whore for any tier 6 BB.
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May 9, 2017 15:55
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Bismarck starts to be good with a 14 point captain and a secondary build.
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May 9, 2017 15:59
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Cippalippus posted:The Gneisenau is a good ship. It's a Swiss Army Knife, it's fast, has armor, torps, secondaries, decent AA. I don't know why people can't appreciate it: it's like a Scharnhorst, with guns that punch harder and reload a tad slower. It's got average accuracy made worse by the low gun count, and it's only got 15" compared to the 16" of the Colorado. It's an exclusively point blank ship trying to sail in a meta where your team stays as far away from red botes as possible, which makes it hugely frustrating to sail.
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May 9, 2017 16:40
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NTRabbit posted:It's got average accuracy made worse by the low gun count, and it's only got 15" compared to the 16" of the Colorado. It's an exclusively point blank ship trying to sail in a meta where your team stays as far away from red botes as possible, which makes it hugely frustrating to sail. This is what it feels like to play as a German BB https://youtu.be/8OXczMiFWUU?t=35s
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May 9, 2017 17:11
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psy.Che posted:Many thanks for all the info, guys. How are the British ships in comparison? Do not start with Royal Navy cruisers. They require advanced understanding of the game, player tenancies and mistakes are punished extremely harshly NTRabbit posted:It's got average accuracy made worse by the low gun count, and it's only got 15" compared to the 16" of the Colorado. It's an exclusively point blank ship trying to sail in a meta where your team stays as far away from red botes as possible, which makes it hugely frustrating to sail. You talk about the 16 inch guns vs the 15s like itmeans something. It doesn't, there is no practical difference in what Colorado can over match vs Gnei. The Colorado has big guns but it is also a slow rear end whale of a ship that sits very high on the water and most of the ship is covered with paper thin armor that is overmatched by Gnei's 15 inchers. All BBs still do BB like things. Some are better or worse than others at doing certain things but all BBs are competitive vis a vis each other
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May 9, 2017 17:23
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Gneis is frustrating to play because RNG has more influence the less shots you're making. Its secondaries can't reach 10km so you can't rely on them as much as the Bismarck will. Also 27mm cruiser armor is a thing now, so 15" vs 16" can be relevant.
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May 9, 2017 17:32
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