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I just read the first few chapters of A Will Eternal. My god. The shenanigans. They would even make Meng Hao blush!
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May 8, 2017 20:04
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Man, Otto really gets some great scenes in Arc 4. Non-Subaru MVP for the arc IMO. edit: Hahahaha this part owns - quote:Emilia: “I can't trust anything you say anymore! You are a liar! You broke your promise, and even I like that the story didn't hold to it being reasonable for Emilia to take promises so absurdly seriously. Like, when Subaru broke that first promise it was bad because it was a promise about something serious and he didn't have a good excuse for breaking it, but flipping poo poo when people break some minor promise (in this case holding her hand all night) is bizarre, especially when it's someone you know well enough that you can assume good will on their part. She basically coerced Subaru into making that promise while in an emotionally unstable state, and he made the reasonable assumption that leaving the room and coming back later would be okay. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:08 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 22:20
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Ytlaya posted:Man, Otto really gets some great scenes in Arc 4. Non-Subaru MVP for the arc IMO. I...think it's the opposite? When someone specifically coerce you for a promise after you broke one, especially if it's a small promise, they are giving you a freebie chance to redeem yourself. This isn't "she should have shown goodwill", it is "She has shown goodwill by giving him a second chance, which he promptly didn't care about because who the gently caress cares about promises".
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May 8, 2017 23:40
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Arkeus posted:I...think it's the opposite? When someone specifically coerce you for a promise after you broke one, especially if it's a small promise, they are giving you a freebie chance to redeem yourself. This isn't "she should have shown goodwill", it is "She has shown goodwill by giving him a second chance, which he promptly didn't care about because who the gently caress cares about promises". 100 years ago, Emilia asks when cornered by Pandora not to harm her aunt Fortuna. When she dies from Betelgeuse stabbing her thanks to Pandora's illusions, Emilia calls Pandora a liar and goes berserk, freezing herself and the forest. When Fortuna promises Emilia that she'll always be by her side, and then dies, Emilia also calls her a liar. And when Puck agrees to Subaru's plan and breaks his contract behind her back, Emila screams you liar. To Emilia, breaking one's promise is like raising a death flag. Grouchio fucked around with this message at 00:26 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 23:59
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Arkeus posted:I...think it's the opposite? When someone specifically coerce you for a promise after you broke one, especially if it's a small promise, they are giving you a freebie chance to redeem yourself. This isn't "she should have shown goodwill", it is "She has shown goodwill by giving him a second chance, which he promptly didn't care about because who the gently caress cares about promises". Put yourself in Subaru's position. If he said "No sorry I can't hold your hand after you lost your parental figure, got more important things to do", Emilia, in her fragile state, would not have reacted well (possibly making her fail the trial) and probably wouldn't have been able to fall asleep. And Subaru did attempt to stick to the spirit of the promise as best he could, and was even expecting to be back to Emilia's room before she woke up IIRC. But there was no way for him to fulfill the promise while also accomplishing his goals - goals which he couldn't tell Emilia about. Basically, given their history, Emilia should have assumed he had a good reason until proven otherwise. Sometimes circumstances require you to break a promise (or in this case make a promise you can mostly, but not entirely, keep), and if you really trust someone you should believe them if they tell you they had no choice. She was justified in her reaction to the first promise he broke because he both didn't have much history with her at that point and, more importantly, didn't even have a good excuse for flagrantly disregarding even the most basic interpretation of the promise. Also there's what the post above mentioned about Emilia's history making her take promises abnormally seriously. edit: As an unrelated Re:Zero question, why did Subaru's cast of Shamak against Garfiel break his gate despite him being able to use it two or three times during one of his other loops? Hahaha this exchange: quote:Garfiel: “My memory fer it ain't perfect, but... think I was three or four. Don't 'xactly remember Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 04:32 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 00:52
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Bobulus posted:I believe it's been mentioned here before, but I've been enjoying Mother of Learning, which is an English web story about a unlikely protagonist in a fictional magical world. Thanks for this. Burned through this in a couple of days. I enjoyed it. Got any other recommendations
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May 9, 2017 03:55
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edit: Nevermind, asked a question but found the answer already.
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May 9, 2017 04:49
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Ytlaya posted:Put yourself in Subaru's position. If he said "No sorry I can't hold your hand after you lost your parental figure, got more important things to do", Emilia, in her fragile state, would not have reacted well (possibly making her fail the trial) and probably wouldn't have been able to fall asleep. And Subaru did attempt to stick to the spirit of the promise as best he could, and was even expecting to be back to Emilia's room before she woke up IIRC. But there was no way for him to fulfill the promise while also accomplishing his goals - goals which he couldn't tell Emilia about. Huh... again, I strongly, strongly disagree. She purposefully broke her moral code to give him a second chance. He saw this as "It doesn't matter if it's a deal breaker to her, I'll just lie as clearly I don't want to either get into a row by refusing or actually be honest and do it". If you are not willing to think someone's wish are important to them, and do not care about what's important to them, don't pretend that the person is awful by being pissed at you betraying them when given a very, very rare second chance. tl;dr: Subaru is an awful friend and a arrogant rear end in a top hat who thinks his wishes to have a perfect resolution where he can eat the cake and keep it too is normal.
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May 9, 2017 10:02
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Arkeus posted:I think he felt insulted that he had issues last time with her, so it was a pride thing: he had gone up a level since then, so he let her get a level to show he had improved more. Also the guy was never really pragmatic beforehand? He had pride in spare. Plus, the plan was Jai Daishou's idea. I feel split on the greater events that's sprinkled here and there in each of the books. On one hand, I can appreciate building up a smaller scale story into something larger but sometimes, just sometimes, I'd like a story to stay small.
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May 9, 2017 10:03
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Argas posted:Plus, the plan was Jai Daishou's idea. I feel split on the greater events that's sprinkled here and there in each of the books. On one hand, I can appreciate building up a smaller scale story into something larger but sometimes, just sometimes, I'd like a story to stay small. Yeah, a story staying small isn't a bad thing, especially as the author is decent at doing the small stuff. Also, am I the only one disappointed that Lindon took a badass path instead of the Path of the Wei clan?
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May 9, 2017 12:22
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Arkeus posted:Huh... again, I strongly, strongly disagree. She purposefully broke her moral code to give him a second chance. He saw this as "It doesn't matter if it's a deal breaker to her, I'll just lie as clearly I don't want to either get into a row by refusing or actually be honest and do it". Just because you have a moral code doesn't mean other people should have to always uphold it. Some people believe unreasonable things or have weird hang-ups, and having some moral standard that you're super unusually strict about is not other peoples' fault. Asking someone to literally hold your hand all night without leaving while you sleep is an unreasonable request, but she was obviously not in a normal state of mind and, as mentioned before, would not have reacted well to Subaru saying "nope sorry can't stay by your side all night." From what I understand, he briefly left to leave the message in the tomb (because there wasn't any other chance to do so) and had the bad luck of her waking up while he was gone. Unlike his other loops, he absolutely needed to get this one right (because of his bet with Roswaal), and if Emilia didn't sleep that night or had her state of mind disturbed even further it could have completely ruined everything. All this being said, I agree that Subaru is really obnoxious and overbearing (the way he forces his love on Emilia would be unacceptable in any realistic situation where her reciprocating it wasn't virtually guaranteed by the plot), but I don't think he was wrong to get upset with Emilia for that (and the narrative seems to generally agree with this, since it implies his rant was valid). edit: As a side note, I'm cautiously optimistic about the fact that after (more seriously) confessing his feelings to Emilia and kissing her, he at least realized that his feelings with Rem were a potential problem he would need to discuss at some point. Given the way WNs typically go, I'm unfortunately fully expecting Emilia to be okay with it, but hopefully she lays the law down and says "lol what no, of course you can't have a mistress, what is wrong with you?" Emilia does seem to be getting more of a personality and backbone, so I'll cross my fingers. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 17:11 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 17:04
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Ytlaya posted:Just because you have a moral code doesn't mean other people should have to always uphold it. Some people believe unreasonable things or have weird hang-ups, and having some moral standard that you're super unusually strict about is not other peoples' fault. Asking someone to literally hold your hand all night without leaving while you sleep is an unreasonable request, but she was obviously not in a normal state of mind and, as mentioned before, would not have reacted well to Subaru saying "nope sorry can't stay by your side all night." From what I understand, he briefly left to leave the message in the tomb (because there wasn't any other chance to do so) and had the bad luck of her waking up while he was gone. Unlike his other loops, he absolutely needed to get this one right (because of his bet with Roswaal), and if Emilia didn't sleep that night or had her state of mind disturbed even further it could have completely ruined everything. Indeed, it's called "My goals are more important than our relationships". He knows how she thinks of honesty by that time, if his own goal are so important that he can break his word, well, that's how much it's worth, and he knows what his words are worth to her. You can't have your cake and eat it too, and a deal breaker is a deal breaker, no matter how much more convenient it would be if it wasn't.
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May 9, 2017 17:41
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Arkeus posted:Indeed, it's called "My goals are more important than our relationships". He knows how she thinks of honesty by that time, if his own goal are so important that he can break his word, well, that's how much it's worth, and he knows what his words are worth to her. You can't have your cake and eat it too, and a deal breaker is a deal breaker, no matter how much more convenient it would be if it wasn't. It was her fault for setting those conditions in the first place, though. The situation was one where through her actions, she was basically emotionally manipulating Subaru. It's sort of like if a depressed person tells someone they like "IF YOU DON'T PROMISE TO GO ON A DATE WITH ME I MIGHT KILL MYSELF", though in this case it was more through Emilia's actions clearly indicating she was not of stable mind (she had just finished losing her poo poo and throwing furniture everywhere). Just like a person in that sort of situation, she was effectively putting Subaru under a bunch of emotional pressure to behave a certain way. Not promising to hold her hand all night in that situation was not really an option for him, and preserving her mental state was of utmost importance for reasons he couldn't articulate to her (he obviously couldn't tell her about the bet). Also, I'm pretty sure Emilia wouldn't like a future where Subaru lets everyone else die and only saves her, which is what would - as enforced by contract - happen if he failed in that loop. I mean, the narrative even makes it clear that the extent to which she values promises is abnormal. The first promise he broke was a huge mistake because he made made it in a situation without any pressure and breaking it caused a bunch of problems for no reason (not to mention she still wasn't sure of his motivations at that point). In this case Subaru literally briefly left to leave a message in the tomb and was going to return right after, so he was attempting to keep to the spirit of the promise and be there when she woke up.
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May 9, 2017 18:04
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Ytlaya posted:It was her fault for setting those conditions in the first place, though. The situation was one where through her actions, she was basically emotionally manipulating Subaru. It's sort of like if a depressed person tells someone they like "IF YOU DON'T PROMISE TO GO ON A DATE WITH ME I MIGHT KILL MYSELF", though in this case it was more through Emilia's actions clearly indicating she was not of stable mind (she had just finished losing her poo poo and throwing furniture everywhere). Just like a person in that sort of situation, she was effectively putting Subaru under a bunch of emotional pressure to behave a certain way. Not promising to hold her hand all night in that situation was not really an option for him, and preserving her mental state was of utmost importance for reasons he couldn't articulate to her (he obviously couldn't tell her about the bet). But all of that doesn't matter. If you have to do something you know is going to destroy the person you are supposedly trying to help if they learn of it, it doesn't matter "if it's for a good cause". It might mean your relationship cannot work, definitely. But then, that's life. He[ knowingly decided to do something he knew would break her because it fit his current goals and he knowingly accepted her demands even knowing all of that instead of being honest. He wanted the cake and eat it too. 'I had a good reason' and 'I was under pressure' only partially work if he didn't know from the start what it would mean to do what he did.
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May 9, 2017 20:45
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if someone you care about is unnaturally fixated on keeping promises, then don't make promises to them you can't keep.
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May 9, 2017 20:47
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99.9% of Re:Zero could have been avoided under that credo tho.
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May 9, 2017 21:04
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Arkeus posted:But all of that doesn't matter. If you have to do something you know is going to destroy the person you are supposedly trying to help if they learn of it, it doesn't matter "if it's for a good cause". It might mean your relationship cannot work, definitely. But then, that's life. He[ knowingly decided to do something he knew would break her because it fit his current goals and he knowingly accepted her demands even knowing all of that instead of being honest. He wanted the cake and eat it too. But he didn't "know it would break her" (and in the end it didn't!). He completely reasonably assumed that he would be back before she woke up. Like what was he supposed to do if he had to take a poo poo and then she woke up? Also you can't really compare the circumstances in this fantasy series with real life. Subaru is under very special circumstances in this situation that would never really occur in reality. He was very reasonably afraid of causing Emilia emotional stress in this specific situation (since literally everything was riding on her successfully completing the trial), and you can't deny that she would not have responded well to him saying "well sorry I can't stay here all night" in that situation. In reality you're never really going to encounter situations where it's a matter of the lives and deaths of a bunch of people that you attempt to keep someone emotionally pacified during a strict time period (for reasons you can't explain to them), but in this fictional series those were the conditions. Anyways, everything I said above isn't even necessary, since she obviously wasn't even that hurt by him breaking that promise. She ended up calming down pretty easily after he had his talk with her in the tomb and doesn't seem to carry any sort of grudge over it. So even she knew she was overreacting and accepted that, which means that in the end Subaru was totally correct to think it wasn't a big deal. Emilia herself seemed to agree with Subaru's evaluation of her being an rear end in a top hat in that situation. She doesn't seem to be holding this against him, and after seeing the messages in the tomb came to understand his reasons. I mean, I certainly won't deny that Subaru is an rear end in a top hat for other reasons, but this isn't really one of them.
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May 9, 2017 22:29
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The author released the cast list for the upcoming Honzuki drama CD, and Miyuki Sawashiro is to play Maine. Other actors include Takahiro Sakurai, Mai Nakahara, Masumi Asano, etc. Now give me an anime, pls.
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May 10, 2017 15:02
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darkgray posted:The author released the cast list for the upcoming Honzuki drama CD, and Miyuki Sawashiro is to play Maine. Other actors include Takahiro Sakurai, Mai Nakahara, Masumi Asano, etc. Now give me an anime, pls. But it seems to be an excerpt from part 3 of the story, so nothing for those of us still stuck on part 1  Anime yes please.
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May 10, 2017 15:50
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darkgray posted:The author released the cast list for the upcoming Honzuki drama CD, and Miyuki Sawashiro is to play Maine. Other actors include Takahiro Sakurai, Mai Nakahara, Masumi Asano, etc. Now give me an anime, pls. Wow, Miyuki Sawashiro is one of my favorite VAs, but she is not who I pictured Maine as sounding like. While she has a big range, my image of her in tomboyish roles like Kanbaru from Bakemonogatari is too strong for me to picture her as a sickly midget like Maine. The author says she was her first choice, so I guess I'm interested to see how it goes. Same for Sakurai, I'd always pictured Ferdinand as having more of a Takehito Koyasu voice. Unsho Ishizuka as Bonifatius is just about what I imagined, though. nielsm posted:But it seems to be an excerpt from part 3 of the story, so nothing for those of us still stuck on part 1 Haha yeah, of the 18 characters cast on the CD, a grand total of 3 have shown up in the English translations so far, including Maine herself. The blog says they were originally going to adapt part of part 1 for the manga release, but decided to do the climax of part 3 for the book release instead since there are so many popular characters with the Japanese readers who don't show up until later. An anime of Honzuki would be awesome, but will almost certainly never happen because it would have to be like 300 episodes long. Even the manga, at the rate it's going, won't finish the story for another 20 years.
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May 10, 2017 16:38
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Bakanogami posted:An anime of Honzuki would be awesome, but will almost certainly never happen because it would have to be like 300 episodes long. Even the manga, at the rate it's going, won't finish the story for another 20 years. I think part 1 could probably be condensed into a 2-cour show, though it would still have to cut a lot.
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May 10, 2017 17:36
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Going from Yen Press's pretty good KonoSuba localization to the skythewood translations is painful.
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May 10, 2017 18:15
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Subaru constantly suffering through various loops whilst figurative horns grow on his head, Declaring that he'll start from Zero, In front of his soon to be comatose motavator, With Garfiel calling him Boss, And Otto constantly being his best buddy, It's official: Re: Zero is anime Metal Gear Solid. Subaru = Venom Snake Rem = The Boss Otto = Otacon Garfiel = Ocelot Elsa = Vamp Emilia = Solid Snake Beatrice = Quiet Roswaal = La-li-lu-le-lo Betelgeuse = Psycho Mantis Mabeasts/Whale/Rabbit = Metal Gears
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May 10, 2017 18:25
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Roswaal is a pretty interesting character. Not in the sense that he's exceptionally deep or anything, but he has a very interesting personality/motivations. In general Re:Zero seems very good at giving characters distinct and memorable "voices."nielsm posted:I think part 1 could probably be condensed into a 2-cour show, though it would still have to cut a lot. I think a significant amount could be cut from just the Honzuki I've read (which is only a few chapters beyond what blastron has translated). It's not extraneous and works well in web novel format, but I don't think it would hurt too much to remove certain things.
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May 10, 2017 18:50
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With Blastron taking a hiatus I'm gonna probably forget about Honzuki for awhile. Damnit.
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May 11, 2017 00:53
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I just realized that Emilia's reconstructed world for the second trial seems to imply that she wanted Arch to have a crush on her, since Echidna explicitly stated it's built from her memories and wishes and since she was too young for Arch to be attracted to her before the tragedy I can't think of anywhere else for that tidbit to come from other than her own wishes. I imagine there's not actually anything more to it, but it would be funny if it were subtly hinting at some sort of narcissism on Emilia's part. edit: Well, I guess it could be argued that the memories of the world or whatever can infer that Arch would have been attracted to older Emilia using the same sort of mechanism by which the Gospels work.
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May 11, 2017 23:51
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ZTJ:quote:She was not able to leave the Garden of Zhou.  I know this misunderstanding hasn't got much longer to play out and it's still tearing me up..
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May 12, 2017 02:24
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remember, she had disguised her appearance. so it is entirely possible that when they meet again, chen changsheng won't even recognize her. plus, you know, every single rear end in a top hat authority figure wants them to fight and they probably can't get out of it.
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May 12, 2017 07:38
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:remember, she had disguised her appearance. so it is entirely possible that when they meet again, chen changsheng won't even recognize her. plus, you know, every single rear end in a top hat authority figure wants them to fight and they probably can't get out of it. He won't recognize her necessarily but she realized (at least I hope so otherwise her credibility as a genius will be called into question) when Su Li and the Holy Maiden discussed the umbrella and the sword pool. They will obviously fight and then we will get a poignant scene where she reveals who she is when she is defeated and/or lets him win or something similar.
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May 12, 2017 09:59
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Lyon posted:He won't recognize her necessarily but she realized (at least I hope so otherwise her credibility as a genius will be called into question) when Su Li and the Holy Maiden discussed the umbrella and the sword pool. They will obviously fight and then we will get a poignant scene where she reveals who she is when she is defeated and/or lets him win or something similar. She realized what? That Chen Changsheng, treacherous scoundrel that he is, killed Xu Sheng and robbed him of his possessions and his deeds? Those two are only geniuses at cultivating, at everything else they're dumb teenagers. People only think they're clever because they keep their mouths shut. I look forward to whatever narrative contortions keep those two idiots in the dark until the last possible moment.
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May 12, 2017 10:38
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Are there any stories where: 1) The protagonist doesn't have any special powers compared to others (or if they do, it's not what makes them successful) 2) The protagonist is legitimately a good person The closest I've seen was early Ze Tian Ji, but even that was stretching the first requirement
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May 15, 2017 16:23
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only sense online, maybe? yun's build is barely adequate at best. for xianxia five way heaven might apply, but the translation for that is long dead.
gimme the GOD DAMN candy fucked around with this message at 16:41 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 16:38
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jon joe posted:Are there any stories where: The first requirement is tough to meet. The protagonist of Re:Zero has a unique power of sorts but generally solves his problems in ways that don't involve him fighting (I really like how they've maintained his status as a weakling and required him to solve problems through communication with others), but he isn't really a good person (though that seems to be a plot element that the author is aware of). Are you specifically looking for isekai action stuff, or are other genres okay? I'm assuming the former, since it isn't too hard to find stuff in other genres without overpowered protagonists or whatever.
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May 15, 2017 17:23
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Ytlaya posted:The first requirement is tough to meet. The protagonist of Re:Zero has a unique power of sorts but generally solves his problems in ways that don't involve him fighting (I really like how they've maintained his status as a weakling and required him to solve problems through communication with others), but he isn't really a good person (though that seems to be a plot element that the author is aware of). Other genres are okay, I'm just not too familiar with them.
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May 15, 2017 17:36
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In Honzuki, the main character doesn't even know they have powers for a while, because it manifests as an illness. I'm not far enough to say if her powers are unique among the people of that world but nearly a hundred chapters in all we really know about her powers is "she has mana." She's successful because she's basically a walking encyclopedia, and applies her earth knowledge to stuff. Whether or not she's a nice person might be arguable, but she's not psychotic (although in the early chapters she had a yandere vibe that she eventually seems to ditch). She certainly tries to be considerate of others, at least, much to her own inconvenience. To some extent, it's still a power fantasy though the power of money 
Argue fucked around with this message at 18:28 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 18:26
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Argue posted:In Honzuki, the main character doesn't even know they have powers for a while, because it manifests as an illness. I'm not far enough to say if her powers are unique among the people of that world but nearly a hundred chapters in all we really know about her powers is "she has mana." She's successful because she's basically a walking encyclopedia, and applies her earth knowledge to stuff. I've already read it, but I don't think it meets my criteria (not to say it isn't a good story, though). Her "power" is her earth knowledge, which is unique and overpowered in the context of the story, and is pretty clearly THE reason she's successful in any way. The reason it's a good story anyway is the knowledge being incomplete causes her as many problems as it solves. It's just not the story I'm looking for.
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May 15, 2017 18:51
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jon joe posted:I've already read it, but I don't think it meets my criteria (not to say it isn't a good story, though). Her "power" is her earth knowledge, which is unique and overpowered in the context of the story, and is pretty clearly THE reason she's successful in any way. The reason it's a good story anyway is the knowledge being incomplete causes her as many problems as it solves. It's just not the story I'm looking for. Does Kenkyo Kenjitsu count? She has no powers or anything, since it's just the regular world. Not much of an adventure as such, mind.
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May 15, 2017 19:26
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jon joe posted:Are there any stories where: Have you read Mother of Learning? Protagonist is a completely non-remarkable student in a local magical college without any special skills. Story starts unfolding when he gets stuck in a month long groundhog day and tries to find his way out.
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May 15, 2017 21:16
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I think 'stuck in a timeloop' counts as a special ability. Honestly, you're going to have a hard time finding stories where the protagonist has absolutely no advantages, because if they didn't, then some random extra could duplicate their feats and do the job better than them. About the closest you're going to come is a story where the protagonist has above-average will power and is willing to go through some extremely strenuous training that anyone is theoretically capable of doing, but most would consider too painful to attempt.
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May 15, 2017 21:40
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Bobulus posted:I think 'stuck in a timeloop' counts as a special ability. Honestly, you're going to have a hard time finding stories where the protagonist has absolutely no advantages, because if they didn't, then some random extra could duplicate their feats and do the job better than them. About the closest you're going to come is a story where the protagonist has above-average will power and is willing to go through some extremely strenuous training that anyone is theoretically capable of doing, but most would consider too painful to attempt. Then I'm thinking action stories are probably a no-go. Are there any good drama web novels.
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May 15, 2017 21:46
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