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Ah. NE Derbyshire is one of those pivotal labour safe seat/"how hosed are Labour" areas. Our Tory candidate is a nice local lad who's dad was a milkman, and was the first one in his mining family to go to university. This lad tried to get in last election and only narrowly lost, possibly because he looked about 12 at the time, and he's been spending his time since then listening to the olds and doing charity. He's mostly campaigning on the anti-fracking thing. Vs some posh Labour bint. What the hell is wrong with the Labour selection people with this complacent bullshit? Do they really think we still see the spectre of Maggie looming over the Tory party going boogity boogity boo.
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May 9, 2017 12:12
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That's a loving generous use of the term "newsflash"
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May 9, 2017 12:14
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learnincurve posted:Ah. NE Derbyshire is one of those pivotal labour safe seat/"how hosed are Labour" areas. Our Tory candidate is a nice local lad who's dad was a milkman, and was the first one in his mining family to go to university. This lad tried to get in last election and only narrowly lost, possibly because he looked about 12 at the time, and he's been spending his time since then listening to the olds and doing charity. He's mostly campaigning on the anti-fracking thing. Vs some posh Labour bint. Corbyn has either been unwilling or unable to get mandatory reselection through the NEC which means we are stuck with shits like Kate Hoey until they either lose or purge themselves in a hissy fit
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May 9, 2017 12:17
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ukle posted:I am probably voting Lib Dem, as Labour has as much chance of winning this seat as we have of finding out that Mars has a secret communist colony run by Zombie Lenin. I really hate the fact I am having to vote Lib Dem though, it feels dirty labour really need to bring in a PR voting system next time they're in power
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May 9, 2017 12:18
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FPTP is such a poo poo system.
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People will blame Corbyn but it's going to happen again and again until they look at the selection process and actually pick suitable candidates for each indervidual area. This lad isn't going to win because he's Tory, he's going to win because he's a local lad who genuinely seems to know what the constituents want and doesn't seem to be a chunt. At this rate it's going to be The Labour Party leader Dennis Skinner sat there on his own aged 107 surrounded by a sea of blue.
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May 9, 2017 12:24
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TinTower posted:Three long-standing Labour activists have been expelled from the party for supporting the NHA candidate against Jeremy Hunt.
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May 9, 2017 12:25
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The attempts to purge the party last year seem to have opened Pandora's box, now people are going to keep getting expelled for stupid reasons.
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May 9, 2017 12:27
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TinTower posted:Three long-standing Labour activists have been expelled from the party for supporting the NHA candidate against Jeremy Hunt. This is a disgrace. Absolute stupidity.
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May 9, 2017 12:35
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Seaside Loafer posted:Read the article and don't understand why they were expelled. Is it some sort of 'you aren't allowed to go doing deals unless we give you permission' thing? Actively campaigning for another party has historically been seen as just cause for expulsion, yes. And it's not a little thing. This sort of deal can wipe your party out in a seat for decades the moment your supporters have license to go elsewhere and feel good about it.
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May 9, 2017 12:40
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I'm a System Shock 2 fan as well. Jeremy Corbyn for PM. On closer reflection I guess that makes May Shodan.
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May 9, 2017 12:41
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Alchenar posted:
The last time canterbury was held by a non-tory was an Ulster Loyalist independent back after ww1 you're absolutely right and it absolutely doesn't matter in the SE
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May 9, 2017 12:41
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Alchenar posted:Actively campaigning for another party has historically been seen as just cause for expulsion, yes.
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May 9, 2017 12:43
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Irony Be My Shield posted:The attempts to purge the party last year seem to have opened Pandora's box, now people are going to keep getting expelled for stupid reasons. Was there ever a time when activel campaigning for a rival candidate wouldn't get you chucked out? This is far beyond eg the 90s quiet agreements with the Lib Dems to concentrate resources in other areas.
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May 9, 2017 12:45
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LemonyTang posted:This is a disgrace. Absolute stupidity.
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May 9, 2017 12:45
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Also this is good and Brexit-related and you should watch it and post it on your Face Books and Chat Snaps or whatever you young people use to talk to each other these days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TZjJMBImsY
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May 9, 2017 12:48
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Zephro posted:Also this is good and Brexit-related and you should watch it and post it on your Face Books and Chat Snaps or whatever you young people use to talk to each other these days
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May 9, 2017 12:51
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I don't really see the massive outrage here. People know perfectly well they get kicked out for campaigning for another party. If they thought it was such a great idea they should have cleared it with the party first.
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May 9, 2017 12:53
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LemonDrizzle posted:On the other hand, there's a pretty strong precedent - Labour and the Lib Dems withdrew their candidates in Tatton in 1997 so Martin Bell could have a clear run against Neil Hamilton. Hunt won 60% of the vote in his constituency last time, so there's not much of a non-Tory base there to wipe out anyway. Bell ran as an independent. Don't think you'll ever convince the Labour Party that it's a good idea in their long term interest to let another party steal their clothes as the "party of the NHS".
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May 9, 2017 12:54
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Zephro posted:Especially since, as a resident of Surrey South West, I can confirm that Labour had absolutely no chance of winning the seat in any case. All true but throwing away decades of hard work to build up a base that one day might turn into a plurality just because you are panicking and trying to grasp a silver lining out of a GE that's lost is an incredibly short-sighted and selfish thing to do. A national party fights every seat. Local parties going rogue and refusing to contest isn't just a disservice to their own constituents, it undermines the perception of the party on a national level as being interested in government.
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May 9, 2017 12:57
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Alchenar posted:A national party fights every seat. Local parties going rogue and refusing to contest isn't just a disservice to their own constituents, it undermines the perception of the party on a national level as being interested in government. in case anyone wonders just how much more incompetent than labour the democrats in america who are also suffering badly are, they didn't contest every seat in the general election
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May 9, 2017 13:01
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Labour/Corbyn just went all "New Socialism" on us.
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May 9, 2017 13:02
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Zephro posted:I'm struggling to think what kind of Lib Dem voter would go UKIP. People are weird. In 2010 the Lib Dems were the outside/anti-establishment party, 5 years of enthusiastic toadying to the Tories stripped them of that mantle which UKIP gleefully took over. Bear in mind that a non-zero amount (ISTR about 5%) of UKIP voters also voted Remain. What I'm saying is people are dumb and democracy is a sham for as long as Michael Mcintyre continues to be successful.
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May 9, 2017 13:04
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Jose posted:they didn't contest every seat in the general election What? 
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May 9, 2017 13:04
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condolences for every poster ITT caught in the Guardian Soulmates data breach
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May 9, 2017 13:06
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Cerv posted:condolences for every poster ITT caught in the Guardian Soulmates data breach gently caress
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May 9, 2017 13:07
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Alchenar posted:All true but throwing away decades of hard work to build up a base that one day might turn into a plurality just because you are panicking and trying to grasp a silver lining out of a GE that's lost is an incredibly short-sighted and selfish thing to do. Stopping the Tories having a majority is a bigger importance than playing to some sort of misguided tradition of running candidates in every seat. It's loving stupid. Especially considering the boundary changes due next year. Of all the dumb poo poo that Labour's leadership have done, completing ruling out any sort of progressive coalition is the biggest one. Extremely hard to forgive Corbyn for that one.
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May 9, 2017 13:11
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icantfindaname posted:That applies to the UK as well? (For now at least) as zephro indicated, the ECHR constrains what the UK can do. the UK would prefer closed shops, but these are illegal under ECHR commitments statutory powers, OTOH, have to be actively granted by national law. the UK does not grant Ghent system monopolies on unemployment insurance, nor Germanic monopolies on minimum wage policy, but the point is that it could do so, if it wished collective bargaining for nonmembers is not a UK tradition. for one, see: preference for closed shops. for another, see: Tony Benn, Arthur Scargill, and the left's briefly-but-destructively successful campaign against corporatist, docile unionism dependent on statutory powers rather than confrontation. As a result the collective bargaining % closely tracks the unionisation rate, afaik
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May 9, 2017 13:12
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https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/861915464976527360
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May 9, 2017 13:17
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forkboy84 posted:Of all the dumb poo poo that Labour's leadership have done, completing ruling out any sort of progressive coalition is the biggest one. Extremely hard to forgive Corbyn for that one. Out of interest, who would you want in this coalition? SNP seems poison to anyone not in Scotland. Greens are alright but mostly insignificant. Lib Dems can never ever ever be trusted.
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May 9, 2017 13:17
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theresa may's team
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May 9, 2017 13:19
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LemonDrizzle posted:On the other hand, there's a pretty strong precedent - Labour and the Lib Dems withdrew their candidates in Tatton in 1997 so Martin Bell could have a clear run against Neil Hamilton. Yes, Labour withdrew their candidate. That was a party decision, and as Cerv pointed out was done in favour of an independent candidate. This case is three activists deciding on their own to not support the Labour candidate when it is literally their loving job to support him. Of course they got removed from the party.
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May 9, 2017 13:20
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And the BBC showed it in full, after giving Labour about 15 seconds of 'also Corbyn was doing a thing today, moving on'.
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May 9, 2017 13:26
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Am I being entirely daft in this comparison, or is the closest equivalent to the Lib Dems the US Libertarians?
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May 9, 2017 13:29
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TheRat posted:Out of interest, who would you want in this coalition? SNP seems poison to anyone not in Scotland. Greens are alright but mostly insignificant. Lib Dems can never ever ever be trusted. SNP, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Greens & Liberals, yes. It's not ideal but guess what? It's better than 5 years of Theresa May running roughshod over workers rights, the NHS, the unemployed, the disabled, the police, foreigners living in this country, etc etc. There are many seats where Labour cannot win against the Tories but the Lib Dems can. And despite them being untrustworthy shitheads, I'd still rather see a LibDem elected ahead of a Tory. How do you guarantee the Liberals support the coalition in government? Simple. Proper electoral reform, which is handy because PR is also the only way that Labour will have a chance in the foreseeable future of being in government again once the boundary reform goes through. Give the Greens a free run at Caroline Lucas's seat & maybe one other, in exchange you get an extra 500 to 1500 voters which could be the difference in marginals across the country. And so forth. It's a small amount you have to give up in exchange for making sure these loving disastrous monsters don't get a majority. But unfortunately the Labour leadership are stuck in a fairly old mentality, the same mentality that's caused Labour PM's from MacDonald to Blair to dismiss PR. Spuckuk posted:Am I being entirely daft in this comparison, or is the closest equivalent to the Lib Dems the US Libertarians? I'd say that the Lib Dems are closer to the US Democrats. There's some libertarians in the Lib Dems but generally they have a lot of members who are more social liberals. Thank god but for the time being libertarianism just isn't a massive thing here. UKIP are probably the natural party for libertarians, though they have to pretend to not be to appeal to working class voters who actually like things like the NHS. But their leader Paul Nuttall is a libertarian, & so was Farage. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 13:32 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 13:30
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Cerv posted:condolences for every poster ITT caught in the Guardian Soulmates data breach lol
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May 9, 2017 13:31
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I do wonder if they could've worked some sort of deal out in Surrey if the snap election hadn't been sprung on them though. leaning towards no. it just doesn't seem like it's worth the effort there considering Hunt's likely huge majority.
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May 9, 2017 13:35
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Spuckuk posted:Am I being entirely daft in this comparison, or is the closest equivalent to the Lib Dems the US Libertarians? The main thing UKIP do different is the massive amounts of patriotic branding  and appeals to largely non-existent nostalgia.The Lib Dems are more like the Democrats if they were freed from having to be the token left wing opposition by a resurgent Farmer-Labor Party.
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May 9, 2017 13:36
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Cerv posted:condolences for every poster ITT caught in the Guardian Soulmates data breach I know a guy who does web and interactive graphics stuff at graun. ... I wonder if he still works there. (doesn't sound like it was entirely their fault though)
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May 9, 2017 13:37
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lol https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/861914582167699456
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May 9, 2017 13:45
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dispatch_async posted:YouGov have tried to break down some of the flows: Yet more reason the Lib Dems are to blame for the demise of progressive politics, both for being cowardly lying bastards and then for completely failing to stage any kind of recovery. While also attacking Labour with three times the vigour with which they attack the Tories.
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