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Yeah the Critical Role is like 5e gripes 101 for me At one point Laura Bailey scoops up like 4 magic items and an artifact at once just to keep her pre-UA Beastmaster from dragging the party down. Casters blowing half the spell list on a mook encounter and then asking for a Long Rest. Endless meticulous planning and group stealth checks. An Intellect Devourer Aces the level 9 Barbarian. While Orion got annoying with the shopping trips it's way more grinding as a DM to watch Marisha Ray gently caress the party with a spell she didn't read and then whining when the party tries to dispell it and "wastes" her 6th level spot.
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May 9, 2017 17:17
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Razorwired posted:An Intellect Devourer Aces the level 9 Barbarian. I distinctly recall someone bringing up the Intellect Devourer being a problem in this thread, with the response being, and I think this is a quote, "Keep on loving that chicken." To be fair, it's brought up a lot. To also be fair, the intellect devourer is a problem. And DMs actually use the guy in real games. But, the important part: Where did that phrase come from? Keep on loving that chicken? What the hell does that even mean? Razorwired posted:Endless meticulous planning and group stealth checks. This definitely isn't a 5e specific thing, though. Every roleplaying game with stealth mechanics I've ever played involved Group Stealth Checks. Also, the good ol' "Roll stealth to get by the gate guards. Ok, roll stealth to get through the courtyard. Ok, roll stealth to get by the door guards. Whoops! Someone rolled a 1, roll initiative."
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May 9, 2017 17:52
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Gharbad the Weak posted:Where did that phrase come from? Keep on loving that chicken? What the hell does that even mean? Based on newscaster Ernie Anastos cursing to the weatherman Nick Gregory, after Gregory gives his weather forecast on 9/16/09. Anastos, in some playful banter to Gregory, said, "It takes a tough man to make a tender forecast, Nick." Gregory responded, "I guess that's me." Anastos then said, "Keep loving that chicken." It means continuing to die on a hill of a bad argument.
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May 9, 2017 17:57
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Oh, side note on point buy vs die rolling: 5e actually has another subtle way of discouraging point buy. It's a 4d6 drop lowest vs 27 point buy. I forgot where I read it, but going by the generally accepted rules on rolling stats, the equivalent point buy for 4d6 drop lowest is actually something like a 32 point buy. It's small, but in 5e, point buy will get you, on average, slightly lower stats. In terms of power, you're slightly punished for using point buy, against the average roll. Edit: Here we go: You keep loving that chicken, buddy. Gharbad the Weak fucked around with this message at 18:08 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 18:05
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Group checks are a specific mechanic in 5e where the entire group rolls a check and if half of the group passes everyone does. It's a great solution to the "it's impossible to sneak anywhere thanks to Sir Clanksalot" problem, and is (from what I've seen at various AL tables) constantly overlooked. I don't know if the Critical Role guys use it, but if group stealth checks are being described as a problem then they might not be.
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May 9, 2017 18:17
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Gharbad the Weak posted:I distinctly recall someone bringing up the Intellect Devourer being a problem in this thread, with the response being, and I think this is a quote, "Keep on loving that chicken." To be fair, it's brought up a lot. To also be fair, the intellect devourer is a problem. And DMs actually use the guy in real games. EDIT: Gharbad the Weak posted:Edit: Here we go: You keep loving that chicken, buddy. Nihilarian fucked around with this message at 18:24 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 18:22
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Is there a page anywhere that lists all of the published stuff and UA articles, with a description of the class specializations/backgrounds/etc. that they come with?
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May 9, 2017 18:45
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Nihilarian posted:That was probably me, in which case it was the opposite. Someone was defending the ID for like the 11th time and I said pretty much that. Oh, well, sorry for misrepresenting your point. My bad, yo.
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May 9, 2017 18:50
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klockwerk posted:Holy poo poo this looks fantastic: Oh Cool. This pretty much what they wanted Sword Coast Legends to be. (Whose devs turned out to not know what they were doing and went bankrupt)
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May 9, 2017 18:53
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Gharbad the Weak posted:Oh, well, sorry for misrepresenting your point. My bad, yo.
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May 9, 2017 18:54
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Drone posted:Is there a page anywhere that lists all of the published stuff and UA articles, with a description of the class specializations/backgrounds/etc. that they come with? I believe there's someone on reddit who keeps up an ongoing PDF of all the UA stuff put together in a PHB style. edit: oops, actually after a quick search it looks like it got taken down after a DMCA from Wizards MagnesiumB fucked around with this message at 19:09 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 19:06
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Razorwired posted:Yeah the Critical Role is like 5e gripes 101 for me Yeah, my inner rules-lawyer was grinding my teeth a bit at the casters casting a new spell every round and Mercer not really seeming to be keeping track of what slots they had used up. Not that I assumed the players were actively cheating, but I know the impulse to just not keep track too closely and hope the DM isn't, either. Then again, if you get to rest after every battle, I guess it's easy not to run out of slots.
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May 9, 2017 21:14
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Razorwired posted:Yeah the Critical Role is like 5e gripes 101 for me The intellect devourer was more to do with rolled stats than it being 5e. Grog has a 6 INT score. Mechanically it sucks but character wise he makes the most of it. The casters wanting to long rest every time is pretty trying at time. Double for Marisha never reading her spells and being meta about her spell resources. But resource management by the players seems to be more at fault than the rest rules. As far as I know Mercer's commented on the post-UA ranger stuff as being a big improvement but not wanting to make a change so far into the game. But the magic item thing is a bit off base as she is limited to the same three attunement slots as everyone else. And everyone in the party got an artifact as part of the big "Kill the dragons" quest line. The rogue actually has two artifacts while everyone else gained one.
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May 9, 2017 22:20
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Drowning them in magic items is pretty necessary since it's increasingly a team of martials (after they lose their sorcerer and the cleric is gone more often than not.) Martials that aren't particularly good at tactics, at that. God it's agonizing to watch them spray damage across 700 enemies and never focus anyone down. I love CR but good god they are real fuckin bad at dungeonmans sometimes. And yeah if you wanna watch a world tour of big dumb mistakes, the entire Whitestone arc, Marisha is blowing up her team with badly chosen spells. In fairness, that does improve but it's like "wait you're level 10+ and still doing this poo poo?"
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May 9, 2017 23:37
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Trast posted:The intellect devourer was more to do with rolled stats than it being 5e. I don't want to rehash this arguement again but this is just not true. The thing is an absolute murder machine against anything with a low int. The great irony of the intellect devourer is that its way better at killing stuff with low int (like the martials who have to charge into melee with it) than the wizards who are far away from it. Nehru the Damaja posted:Drowning them in magic items is pretty necessary since it's increasingly a team of martials (after they lose their sorcerer and the cleric is gone more often than not.) Martials that aren't particularly good at tactics, at that. Tactics, especially in DnD 5e is something I would imagine most people would completely ignore/glaze over at to be honest but yeah blowing up you're allies after playing for potentially years at this point (no idea how long each of them have been in the group) is genuinely hilarious. We got one guy in my pathfinder game who is making a lot of these kind of mistakes with spells but a) its a rules heavy as gently caress game, b) none of this poo poo is clear or spelled out and even makes references to stuff from completely different games and c) hes new so recognizing that haste is an aoe daisy chain spell is kind of a hard concept to get if you're used to literally any other game.
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May 10, 2017 00:19
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Trast posted:The intellect devourer was more to do with rolled stats than it being 5e. Grog has a 6 INT score. It had nothing at all to do with rolled stats. If he'd been using the array and had put an 8 in Int, then the result would have been exactly the same given that he rolled a 6 on a DC 12 save and the 3d6 roll to see if he got KOed was an 8.
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May 10, 2017 00:20
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kingcom posted:I don't want to rehash this arguement again but this is just not true. The thing is an absolute murder machine against anything with a low int. The great irony of the intellect devourer is that its way better at killing stuff with low int (like the martials who have to charge into melee with it) than the wizards who are far away from it. I think you really have to prioritize casters with them, not only so they do what they're actually intended to do but even from an RP perspective. Grog would be the coldest, softest ping on the radar for something that reads thoughts to find its prey.
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May 10, 2017 00:21
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I think you really have to prioritize casters with them, not only so they do what they're actually intended to do but even from an RP perspective. Grog would be the coldest, softest ping on the radar for something that reads thoughts to find its prey. Yeah so unless the group is a mess the wizard just backs the gently caress off and blasts and the martial engages it. You only really get the 'show up and instant kill' or 'it dies pointlessly' with monsters like that. Its why save or death mechanics are often really loving frowned upon.
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May 10, 2017 00:33
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AlphaDog posted:It had nothing at all to do with rolled stats. If he'd been using the array and had put an 8 in Int, then the result would have been exactly the same given that he rolled a 6 on a DC 12 save and the 3d6 roll to see if he got KOed was an 8. My mistake as people have pointed out.
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May 10, 2017 00:36
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kingcom posted:Tactics, especially in DnD 5e is something I would imagine most people would completely ignore/glaze over at to be honest but yeah blowing up you're allies after playing for potentially years at this point (no idea how long each of them have been in the group) is genuinely hilarious. I used to be very careful about not hitting my party's fighter with AoE spells but he ramped up the machismo so much I decided my character would aggressively stop caring who and what she hit out of pure spite. We are now slightly at war, with neither of us willing to cede that maybe dealing a ton of fire damage to him every now and then is not a great idea when we're already almost dying to what we're fighting. I can't wait until I have Reverse Gravity.
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May 10, 2017 01:05
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Reene posted:I used to be very careful about not hitting my party's fighter with AoE spells but he ramped up the machismo so much I decided my character would aggressively stop caring who and what she hit out of pure spite. This just makes me miss the Fighter build in 4e who would get temporary hit points when they were hit by friendly fire 
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May 10, 2017 01:24
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My Lore Bard just hit 6. I'm taking Counterspell for Magical Secrets but the second one is tricky. We have too many melee guys for me to feel comfortable taking Fireball and tons of other good candidates eat up concentration (which is a big problem on a debuff-focused bard) or use up bonus actions (which I'm going to be using to hand out inspiration more, now that reaction is often gonna be saved for counterspell.) Should I just take Eldritch Blast so my damage isn't garbo? There was a nonzero chance I was gonna pick up Warlock 2 but this would have me skip that and pick up Cleric 1 later for armor and stuff.
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May 10, 2017 06:54
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I've seen Ice Knife used a heck of a lot by our Sorceror and seems fun. Otherwise Dispel Magic is usually a fun thing to have handy.
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May 10, 2017 07:13
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Nehru the Damaja posted:My Lore Bard just hit 6. I'm taking Counterspell for Magical Secrets but the second one is tricky. We have too many melee guys for me to feel comfortable taking Fireball and tons of other good candidates eat up concentration (which is a big problem on a debuff-focused bard) or use up bonus actions (which I'm going to be using to hand out inspiration more, now that reaction is often gonna be saved for counterspell.) For blasting, you might be able to weave lightning bolt into a fight without hitting your allies if they position well. Scorching ray isn't terrible as a level 2 option that isn't going to catch your allies in AoE, though it involves multiple ranged attack rolls. I guess if nobody else will have access to resurrection effects you could take revivify, though it has a pretty tight time restriction. Are you using any options apart from the PHB? Cassa posted:I've seen Ice Knife used a heck of a lot by our Sorceror and seems fun. Otherwise Dispel Magic is usually a fun thing to have handy. I'm not sure it's worth expending Magical Secrets on something already on the Bard spell list. kirtar fucked around with this message at 07:36 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 07:17
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kirtar posted:For blasting, you might be able to weave lightning bolt into a fight without hitting your allies if they position well. Scorching ray isn't terrible as a level 2 option that isn't going to catch your allies in AoE, though it involves multiple ranged attack rolls. I guess if nobody else will have access to resurrection effects you could take revivify, though it has a pretty tight time restriction. Are you using any options apart from the PHB? We have all the books plus UA available to us. We have a cleric with revivify. I thought about Lightning Bolt but I built myself into a corner with too many concentration and save spells, so I'm trying to build out of it. I'm thinking I take EB and Leomund's Tiny Hut, and swap out Heat Metal for Shatter so I have one less demand on concentration and also one less spell leaning on my bonus actions.
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May 10, 2017 07:38
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Splicer posted:Every lunchtime a man sits down to eat, and another man punches the sandwich from his hands. Every day it's the same routine. He sits, he opens his lunchbox. He takes out the sandwich. He opens his mouth, thinking maybe, just maybe, this time he will not return to work hungry. Sometimes it happens as soon as he pulls it from the box. Sometimes he gets it all the way to his lips before the blow comes down. But it always comes. How did nobody comment on how amazing this post is?
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May 10, 2017 08:05
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ProfessorCirno posted:How did nobody comment on how amazing this post is? We got sidetracked by Intellect Devourer chat.
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May 10, 2017 08:18
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Hey thread--I've been skimming through Out of the Abyss, and it's unique among 5E campaigns in that the premise has really hooked me (I'm a sucker for stories where the PCs start with nothing and have to claw and scrape their way to freedom). Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like the adventure offers much explanation for how or why your players were captured by the drow in the first place--Princes of the Apocalypse, for all its flaws, had that nice little booklet of adventure hooks giving PCs reasons their characters might be in the starting town to investigate the cults. Are there any resources like that available for this campaign? I can't seem to find any.
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May 10, 2017 14:08
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Nehru the Damaja posted:My Lore Bard just hit 6. I'm taking Counterspell for Magical Secrets but the second one is tricky. We have too many melee guys for me to feel comfortable taking Fireball Fireball is never the wrong decision. Just use it as an opener before the melee guys get into position. Especially useful against large crowds where melee is more specialized for single target.
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May 10, 2017 14:18
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Ratspeaker posted:Hey thread--I've been skimming through Out of the Abyss, and it's unique among 5E campaigns in that the premise has really hooked me (I'm a sucker for stories where the PCs start with nothing and have to claw and scrape their way to freedom). Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like the adventure offers much explanation for how or why your players were captured by the drow in the first place--Princes of the Apocalypse, for all its flaws, had that nice little booklet of adventure hooks giving PCs reasons their characters might be in the starting town to investigate the cults. Are there any resources like that available for this campaign? I can't seem to find any. My GM just asked us to tell him why we were captured by drow. Is that not enough?
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May 10, 2017 14:18
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bewilderment posted:My GM just asked us to tell him why we were captured by drow. Is that not enough? This is the correct way to set up this kind of story.
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May 10, 2017 14:48
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kingcom posted:This is the correct way to set up this kind of story. To quote the guy who wrote Apocalypse World (back when he wrote Kill Puppies For Satan): "what you want to do as gm is make them (the players) responsible for their own pee. keep the good stuff for yourself, naturally, but give the bullshit away."
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May 10, 2017 15:21
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I may be overthinking it--my group is used to campaigns providing players with hooks for new characters, and they're not really acquainted with the 5E setting (they're Pathfinder loyalists). It'd be my job to help them if they can't think of anything, so I was wondering if there are any resources to that end (fanmade or otherwise). None of us are terribly creative people.
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May 10, 2017 16:33
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Time for them to start exercising that muscle regardless - they are the setting. If they say something incongruent with what you perceive the 5e setting to be, change the setting, not the players, unless it absolutely breaks the adventure module.
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May 10, 2017 16:45
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Ratspeaker posted:I may be overthinking it--my group is used to campaigns providing players with hooks for new characters, and they're not really acquainted with the 5E setting (they're Pathfinder loyalists). It'd be my job to help them if they can't think of anything, so I was wondering if there are any resources to that end (fanmade or otherwise). None of us are terribly creative people. tell them to freely loot golarion or whatever setting you played with before for ideas, then incorporate those ideas into the campaign. anyway here's some random lovely ideas I chased my pet frog into a hole and fell. When I woke up, here I was. You mean, there's a world outside the tunnels? It was a perfect hand! How could I know they were just going to assume I cheated? Which, as you know, I certainly did not I was on a routine expedition to study the abjurative qualities of luminescent subterranean fungus and there was a misunderstanding It would have been nice if someone had warned me that they don't respect diplomatic immunity when you ask them if it's pronounced "drow" or "drow" They'll put up with a lot, but never offer to show one of the matriarchs a good time, even if it is a joke. Teleport without Error MY rear end Guard duty for myconid caravans turned out not to be the easy money I thought it would be Look, it was trying to eat me. I think that should have been considered more important than that it was a documented thoroughbred Somewhere along the line, they got the idea that I was part of the cargo. That stevedore and I are going to have a long, serious talk if I ever get out of here
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May 10, 2017 17:09
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Honestly it's not surprising that this would be a sticking point for people used to Pathfinder APs. The Player's Guides are a good part of the "secret sauce" that really makes them work, because they provide players with all the information necessary to tie their characters into the campaign in rewarding ways and get players interested in the narrative. Considering OotA is a piece of poo poo that just badly describes stuff that happens to the PCs while fingerpainting with poo poo all over the FR, I'm not surprised they couldn't be bothered to actually put some effort in. Adding your own ideas isn't going to work too well because OotA gives you no space to incorporate them, and putting your own stuff in is just going to reveal how bad the entire adventure is. Kind of a catch-22.
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May 10, 2017 17:30
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Time for them to start exercising that muscle regardless - they are the setting. If they say something incongruent with what you perceive the 5e setting to be, change the setting, not the players, unless it absolutely breaks the adventure module. This. I have a hard time grasping the mentality behind wanting to do a published adventure, but also wanting to be spoon-fed a reason why you're there; at that point, I'd start questioning whether or not you actually want to play the game, at all.
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May 10, 2017 18:02
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So I'm firmly in the grips of nostalgia and thinking of playing my Rise of the Runelords game as pathfinder instead of 5e after all. I haven't played Pathfinder/3.5 in years, but I've just gotten a little tired of 5e's cookie cutter builds and mushy rules. How dumb of an idea is this. Does anyone here go back and forth between 5e and Pathfinder? Anyone have any experience trying to make players used to 5e try an old dumb system like 3.5/Pathfinder? I know people don't have the best view of 5e in this forum, but is there even more pathfinder hate? SerCypher fucked around with this message at 18:10 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 18:06
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Pathfinder is unquestionably a worse, more bloated, and more poorly balanced game. This is nothing special for tabletop RPGs.
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May 10, 2017 18:18
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If I want to specifically listen to or watch a Level 9 Barb get one-shotted by an Intellect Devourer, where do I go? I know nothing of any D&D podcasts.
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May 10, 2017 18:19
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