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thoughts and prayers posted:I think Clinton and Obama represent exactly as far left as the American population is currently willing to go, and that thoughts of Sanders and free college and NHS style health care are probably pipe dreams for at least 20 more years. You've got an electorate who'd actually rather vote to deny themselves health care just because someone who they don't think deserves it might get something for free. So, truly, I didn't view Clinton (or Obama) as a bad choice, but the choice for slow but assured progressive change. The ACA wasn't the end of healthcare reform, it was the beginning (and kept me from bankruptcy when I got meningitis) - but getting a Republican House, Senate, and Prez essentially stopped any further forays into fixing US care for another 10 years. I'd have rather gotten a little more of what I wanted rather than none of it. The US federal government is set up to make swift change nearly impossible (it's a feature, not a bug), so I'm unsure how a "truly left" (and of course, what that means is highly variable depending on who you ask) president would make much of an impact. It was the beginning of exactly what you see here. There was literally no viable path from the ACA to any kind of public system, it poisoned the concept of state-managed healthcare for a generation in order to funnel money to Obama's campaign donors, and the logical next step was to begin stripping away the marginal benefits it offered people in the 'trade' with insurers. There's been quite a lot of popular support for leftist candidates, Obama being the most nominally progressive major-party candidate of 2008 outside debatably Gravel and Sanders nearly taking the primary (and likely the election) this year entirely on the back of popular support with the full-throated opposition of everyone in the system; but the US certainly isn't going to get any lefter in the near future, with the most visible proponents of "leftist" ideologies being guillotine-worthy Clinton courtiers and goofs like you publicly sneering about how you can fleece the idiot masses. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 17:04 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 16:58
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Any leftist movement is going to come as incidental to economic populism. The DNC seems currently unwilling to even pretend to adopt that plank so yeah get ready for more assfucking in the forseeable future.
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May 9, 2017 17:01
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The feds infiltrated and shut down any real leftist movements in the us years ago and will do so again if necessary
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May 9, 2017 17:02
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Blue Train posted:Didn't he get fired from MSNBC for being too retarded also a complete rear end in a top hat to work who was given multiple chances, hence how he went from anchoring a prime time cable news show to a youtube channel sponsored by a mens lifestyle magazine
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May 9, 2017 17:03
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mannerup posted:also a complete rear end in a top hat to work who was given multiple chances, hence how he went from anchoring a prime time cable news show to a youtube channel sponsored by a mens lifestyle magazine everyone forgets that he was originally just a sportscasting blowhard it's like giving Mike Francesa a political show
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May 9, 2017 17:06
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:; but the US certainly isn't going to get any lefter in the near future, with the most visible proponents of "leftist" ideologies being guillotine-worthy Clinton courtiers and goofs like you publicly sneering about how you can fleece the idiot masses. This is why I'm severely wary of anyone who stomps their feet at the idea of third party voting and instead thinks the dnc can change from within. Hell no they're not going to give up their money train by adopting any policy that even smells like redistribution. The donors simply won't have it
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May 9, 2017 17:11
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dsriggs posted:How does it feel to be on the wrong side of history? Pretty good.
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May 9, 2017 17:11
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Toadvine posted:This is why I'm severely wary of anyone who stomps their feet at the idea of third party voting and instead thinks the dnc can change from within. Hell no they're not going to give up their money train by adopting any policy that even smells like redistribution. The donors simply won't have it Eh there's potential value in both; depending on where you are the Democrats might be a useful font of resources to use to improve local governments that the cultists at the top don't care about, but when they're not willing to give you what you want it's absolutely vital that you be willing to bail and seek out better offers elsewhere. Win or lose, as Obama and Clinton carefully explained to progressives many times, there's no point in making any effort to appeal to someone you think will just slavishly back you anyway, but they have to actually cut a deal with the swing voters.
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May 9, 2017 17:32
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VikingSkull posted:everyone forgets that he was originally just a sportscasting blowhard Um please?
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May 9, 2017 17:33
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the only way the ACA would be the "first step" toward reform is if it had a public option that could later be expanded, which is the reason insurance companies and their paid shills in the government fought tooth and nail to make sure it didn't have one
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May 9, 2017 17:35
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Maybe you should consider just how many people in the insurance industry will lose their jobs before you go on about how we need reform
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May 9, 2017 17:36
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KomodoWagon posted:I can't believe people like you are allowed to vote. We still have 3 years for american society to collapse so we can be all smug and say  "Tut.tut.tut... Give women the vote and in not even 100 years it all falls apart. GG America"
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May 9, 2017 17:37
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Sebastien Lenorman posted:We still have 3 years for american society to collapse so we can be all smug and say Majority of college educated white women voted for him so it's not even wrong
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May 9, 2017 17:40
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Eh there's potential value in both; depending on where you are the Democrats might be a useful font of resources to use to improve local governments that the cultists at the top don't care about, but when they're not willing to give you what you want it's absolutely vital that you be willing to bail and seek out better offers elsewhere. Win or lose, as Obama and Clinton carefully explained to progressives many times, there's no point in making any effort to appeal to someone you think will just slavishly back you anyway, but they have to actually cut a deal with the swing voters. the most insane arguments ive ever seen were people berating democrats for being unenthusiastic about voting again for the same dems in 2012 after all their fuckups 2008-2012. the claim was that it's vital to always vote for a democrat and fall in line, no matter how toothless or ineffectual they are or how little they represent your interests, so that the democrats have a safe environment where they always win and only then can they begin moving left once they're assured to always be in power. people who think you need to fall in line and always vote D no matter what have no grasp on reality
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May 9, 2017 17:40
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Blue Train posted:Majority of college educated white women voted for him so it's not even wrong 
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May 9, 2017 17:42
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sad!
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May 9, 2017 17:43
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Justin Godscock posted:God damnit, I'm all for gay rights and equality but poo poo like the gay community shunning conservatives really does not help their cause at all. People shouldn't shun gay conservatives because they are gay but rather that they are conservative
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May 9, 2017 17:43
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Toadvine posted:Actually Americans want socialism it just needs to be wrapped in patriotic/heartland appeals Yeah if you call it European socialized healthcare it's going to poll a lot worse than Medicare for all. Branding matters a lot and democrats are incredibly bad at it while at the same time having no real interest in implementing these kind of things. Redistributive programs are expensive by nature and require that rich people and corporations pay taxes. However we all know how most democrats like to decry the injustices and inequalities of our society while at the same times supporting the things that cause it and would never dare turn on their rich donors in order to help the general public. Stexils posted:the only way the ACA would be the "first step" toward reform is if it had a public option that could later be expanded, which is the reason insurance companies and their paid shills in the government fought tooth and nail to make sure it didn't have one Opt in medicare would largely displace private insurance for regular working folk over time and is the smoothest way to transition to a sane system imo, if you couple it with things like allowing medicare to negotiate on drug prices (just lol that this is not a thing. emblematic of how loving lovely our government is and how little it looks after our interests). Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 17:49 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 17:44
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Stexils posted:the most insane arguments ive ever seen were people berating democrats for being unenthusiastic about voting again for the same dems in 2012 after all their fuckups 2008-2012. the claim was that it's vital to always vote for a democrat and fall in line, no matter how toothless or ineffectual they are or how little they represent your interests, so that the democrats have a safe environment where they always win and only then can they begin moving left once they're assured to always be in power. people who think you need to fall in line and always vote D no matter what have no grasp on reality they're cretins and what's wrong with modern politics yeah they don't even blink at using the same excuses for Obama's supermajority, like so long as a Republican still exists somewhere in the universe they are incapable of doing anything but just keep the faith and someday, someday... obv sanders comey russia's the new one but there's democrats for whom Nader was their 9/11 and they're still permanently seconds from a foaming rant about some third-party upstart stealing their votes 17 years on. making those guys miserable is reason enough to vote third party in itself. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 17:49 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 17:44
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Lol
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May 9, 2017 17:45
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At least it's mildly funny instead of eye rolling and obnoxious like the usual fare from racism screamers.
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May 9, 2017 17:50
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basic hitler posted:Centrist liberals ain't resisting anything. Actual policy matters so little to them that the difference in presentation between Donald and Hillary is the only thing that really matters to them. Hilary would continue deporting and detaining illegal immigrants like Obama did, but at least she wouldn't build a wall and demonstrate open contempt. Hillary would realize at least one treaty may be twi that will result in the near total loss of meaningful employment of the working and middle class, which would over-burden our social safety nets, weak as they are, to the breaking point. but hey AT LEAST she wasn't going to give more tax breaks to the wealthy. probably. This is true for domestic issues where the president has very little real power, but I'd argue that the water gets a little murky when it comes to foreign affairs. Both sides fall victim to big defense dollars and taking the path of least resistance when it comes to choices, but for the right wing this is a largely a no brainer because it also placates their base. The left has to take a more balanced approach to foreign policy (relatively speaking)since their base consists of a lot more doves.
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May 9, 2017 17:55
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really queer Christmas posted:For all the things to stick to trump, this would be one of the few that could actually sink him. But no one touches it because then you'd have to implicate a lot of Richie rich types and dems as well so lol nope cover that poo poo up! Bill Clinton's flown on his jet multiple times so yeah dems tend to avoid bringing it up.
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May 9, 2017 18:01
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Ostiosis posted:Bill Clinton's flown on his jet multiple times so yeah dems tend to avoid bringing it up. being an rear end in a top hat kiddy diddler transcends party lines
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May 9, 2017 18:02
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does it? because the rich beltway journalists that seem to be the only people centrists care about write gushing articles every time a wedding is bombed
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May 9, 2017 18:03
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Ostiosis posted:Bill Clinton's flown on his jet multiple times so yeah dems tend to avoid bringing it up. He refused a secret service escort several times as well
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May 9, 2017 18:03
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So I checked out this Tulsi Gabbard and what the gently caress? Why the hell doesn't the democrats just tell Clinton to gently caress off somewhere and go 100 % for Gabbard? I mean she's a veteran, seems competent, is ethnic, is very attractive and seems like she actually have some integrity.
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May 9, 2017 18:04
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hillary clinton, seeking the endorsement of henry kissinger: "i tend to take a balanced approach to foreign policy"
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May 9, 2017 18:04
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Blue Train posted:He refused a secret service escort several times as well Secret service seems down with prostitution but maybe underage girls is a bridge to far
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May 9, 2017 18:04
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Secret service seems down with prostitution but maybe underage girls is a bridge to far There weren't enough girls to go around those times
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May 9, 2017 18:07
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Accretionist posted:If he really wanted to harry Trump, he could unceasingly JAQ* off about Trump's routine partying with billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. The problem is that top Democrats are even closer to him - Bill Clinton, Podesta, etc. That's why that whole story was kept quiet the whole campaign - both sides were caught up in it
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May 9, 2017 18:15
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why did pizzagate become a thing when "plane for pedophiles that both sides frequent" is way more horrifying and also actually true.
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May 9, 2017 18:16
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Blue Train posted:He refused a secret service escort several times as well bill doesn't use protection
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May 9, 2017 18:17
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Pump it up! Do it! posted:So I checked out this Tulsi Gabbard and what the gently caress? Why the hell doesn't the democrats just tell Clinton to gently caress off somewhere and go 100 % for Gabbard? I mean she's a veteran, seems competent, is ethnic, is very attractive and seems like she actually have some integrity. I don't think you understand. This is "politics" we're talking about. You can take your fancy French words like "integrity" and gently caress right off out of my America!! 
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May 9, 2017 18:18
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Stexils posted:why did pizzagate become a thing when "plane for pedophiles that both sides frequent" is way more horrifying and also actually true. They're basically the same thing and both have been ruthlessly suppressed in the media
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May 9, 2017 18:21
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Stexils posted:bill doesn't use protection
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May 9, 2017 18:21
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Stexils posted:why did pizzagate become a thing when "plane for pedophiles that both sides frequent" is way more horrifying and also actually true. I dunno and I feel like this was not at all addressed during the election simply because both sides are implicated so no one wants to bring it up. Or maybe it's because when you're rich in this country you can just do literally anything you want include run a sex slave island for underage children and receive no real repercussions if/when you are caught.
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May 9, 2017 18:22
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Pump it up! Do it! posted:So I checked out this Tulsi Gabbard and what the gently caress? Why the hell doesn't the democrats just tell Clinton to gently caress off somewhere and go 100 % for Gabbard? I mean she's a veteran, seems competent, is ethnic, is very attractive and seems like she actually have some integrity. DNC is a mess. DNC is a waste. Sad!
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May 9, 2017 18:22
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Every time you brought up Epstein in d&d it would be a chorus of people snidely chanting "fake news conspiracy theorist anti semites" while covering their ears Then you get banned for an unrelated months old post
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May 9, 2017 18:23
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OXBALLS DOT COM posted:Every time you brought up Epstein in d&d it would be a chorus of people chanting "fake news conspiracy theorist anti semites" while covering their ears Yes, exactly. It was weird.
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May 9, 2017 18:24
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