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the new NBA rebuild method is the tried and true Three Alphas model.
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May 9, 2017 05:28
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Kibner posted:Teams have tried to follow the Thunder model. None of them have even made it to the playoffs, yet. Even if you gifted a team with the best scouting in the world 3 #1 picks in a row, they almost definitely wouldn't manage to hit on the equivalent of Durant/Westbrook/Harden.
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May 9, 2017 05:33
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Obviously it takes a lot of luck but I think it's fair to say title contention takes a lot of luck anyway
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May 9, 2017 05:39
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Oh hey, Draymond Green hosed around and what even is the point of basketball this
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May 9, 2017 05:40
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SCARYJEINFELD posted:Obviously it takes a lot of luck but I think it's fair to say title contention takes a lot of luck anyway Yeah, so put something out there that people can easily cheer for and still has room to improve. Kibner fucked around with this message at 05:46 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 05:43
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NickRoweFillea posted:From a fan of a team who is only going to win a million championships off heart, grit, and grind, having a competitive team that represents the city well and is fun to watch is absolutely priceless. I wouldn't trade that game 3 win over the Spurs for hardly anything. Except a championship I agree with this 100% but I think you also have to consider style of play/identity. If the Raps felt like they were maximizing their talent and just always falling short I'd be down to keep on rolling it back because it's worth it game to game as a fan. But they are so inconsistent and at times dreadful. It's not like they lose putting forth their best effort, they just poo poo the bed. I really want to think this is mostly the coaches fault but I'm starting to worry that Lowry is just not built for this playoff life. I guess realistically the team's identity is win a bunch of games but in the most turbulent way possible while never maximizing talent in high leverage situations because of incompetent coaching and a lack of gamers.
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May 9, 2017 05:44
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rondo somehow came out of this clusterfuck bulls season sounding like the only adult on the team, which is astonishing considering that rondo is a toxic shithead who was thrown off two teams and suspended for hate speech.
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May 9, 2017 05:49
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BWV posted:Earlier this season I posted a lot about how being in the top 4 in the east but never beating Lebron is not the worst. And I'm not one of those people who advocate for championship or bust. From a fan's perspective, someone who watches way too many games, it makes it worthwhile to have a team that wins most of them, even if you know they are never good enough. Watching wins are fun. Hearing Zach Lowe say that every team that isn't in the conference finals should rebuild gets so loving tiring. For one thing, tanking is not effective if 1/3 of the league is doing it at once. It's great for the sort of international dirtbags who pull guys like Thon Maker from some rugged area and say HEY, POTENTIAL, because more teams are scrambling for it, but there will only be so many real prospects, so many diamonds in the rough to be developed. For smaller market teams the local tv deal is very important in keeping revenue steady if the team doesn't sell tickets, so you have to assume those teams want to look like they're improving or are going to stay good when those deals are being negotiated. The lottery when it's not rigged is random enough to gently caress you even if you are terrible, and being terrible can alienate fans and sponsors in a way that's difficult to recover from. Although with the attention economy, maybe you can tankwithout anyone noticing. Like the Lakers, sign bad big name players to big contracts and pretend you're trying to win and act very confused when you get lottery picks instead. The raptors could sign Lowry and Ibaka to max deals and then act really confused when they're awful and cant afford to sign anyone in 2 years, then when those contracts expire they'll have had 3 years of lottery picks and valuable future picks. That's the way to keep people buying tickets and watching games, just keep the old names around as they decline and act like you're trying really hard to improve.
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May 9, 2017 06:04
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I recall some factoid where Lowry hates Colangelo and liked Hinkie Neither do I but he's coming home.
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May 9, 2017 06:11
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Dejan Bimble posted:Hearing Zach Lowe say that every team that isn't in the conference finals should rebuild gets so loving tiring. I don't think he's saying he definitively should, just pointing out that there is a hard ceiling to some of these teams and asking whether or not it's something they will/should consider. It's an interesting thing to talk about as evidenced by the last however many pages of this thread and the bulk of the conversation on the NBA internet generally. Fwiw I think being a consistent winner the routinely makes like the second round can be fun (love you, Deron/Boozer/Memo) and is generally underrated by the weird Heinke cult folks who act like there is no difference between falling short of the title and being the literal worst team in the entire sport (or that the latter is actually way more desireable because ASSETS). The NBA season is very long and there is something to be said for being able to turn on the TV for a random game in January and know that they have a good chance of winning more often than not. MourningView fucked around with this message at 06:31 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 06:26
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DeimosRising posted:Yeah but there are maybe 10 guys in the league at any time on that level. If you tank fucken hard and get 5 top five picks in a row, the odds aren't you don't draft a single guy on that level. You probably get two busts, Ibaka, Lowry, and Derozen. Look at the Wizards, the Blazers, the Magic, the Wolves like 4 or 5 times, even the Thunder, who got closer than most. It usually doesn't work. You're just as likely to make the leap the way the Lakers did (insanely lucky mid rounder and a dickhead free agent who wants to play in your city) or the Cavs (blow your picks and luck into more, and a dickhead free agent wants to come home) or the way the Warriors did (late lottery gambles and second rounders that all worked by sheer luck, plus TWO dickhead free agents playing mercenary) or the Celtics (multiple teams had a fire sale when they had a pile ornate mediocre assets and a lonely superstar) or the Heat (dickhead free agents plus lonely superstars. Actually building from a full tank describes no title team in the last 20 years except maybe the Pistons and the 2006 Heat. I want to have the best player on the court for a drat playoff series. If you half rear end poo poo like the Raptors currently are, you constantly get articles/podcasts jerking off to players on the other team and you become laughingstocks of a different nature. I would much rather have a superstar with no help around him than fake rear end allstars that melt in the spotlight, because at least then there's some shred of hope. How you get that superstar doesn't matter. The Raptors currently do not have a path of getting one in FA, so that leaves the draft. The best way to get a superstar in the draft is to have good picks. A second round exit team is nothing more than the inevitable realization that it doesn't mean poo poo. It's another loving sweep for LeBron. I'd much rather have the hope, no matter how small, that tanking provides than be a loving warm up act for the teams that matter.
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May 9, 2017 06:36
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The Raptors could let Lowry walk and get pennys on the dollar for DeRozan and they're still going to win 30+ games and not get a superstar next year or the one after because it's the East and unless you have 1-3 year players or literal d-leaguers you aren't bad enough to lose more games than that.
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May 9, 2017 07:01
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FVV, Bruno, and just pick someone else, we almost there
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May 9, 2017 07:04
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R.D. Mangles posted:the new NBA rebuild method is the tried and true Three Alphas model. Demar, Norm, and Delon. Raptors are set.
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May 9, 2017 09:56
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MourningView posted:I don't think he's saying he definitively should, just pointing out that there is a hard ceiling to some of these teams and asking whether or not it's something they will/should consider. It's an interesting thing to talk about as evidenced by the last however many pages of this thread and the bulk of the conversation on the NBA internet generally. I agree if the team is fun it's cool. Hinkie worked with Philly fans because of the way the Sixers teams were built for about 25+ years. Outside of that one miracle season in 2000, the last time the Sixers won 50 games was 1989. They never really even had home court in the first round upside. 25+ years of being thoroughly mediocre will buy you the goodwill of the fanbase, but the Sixers never had a team like the Raptors this year. Not only were the teams mediocre, they weren't particularly interesting or fun.
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May 9, 2017 12:16
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Hinkies model was not "solely rely on the draft". It was way more flexible. Colangelo seems to be following it as well. It was always just at the position the sixers were in 4 years ago, the draft was the best avenue. Everyone realizes trades and FAs also work and in fact Hinkie was building up assets and cap room for those things as well. I do agree tho that there is a wierd Hinkie death cult that is especially strange now that it appears hes an odious tech bro.
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May 9, 2017 13:01
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Kibner posted:Teams have tried to follow the Thunder model. None of them have even made it to the playoffs, yet. Atlanta sports talk radio, which will celebrate an NFC championship but anything short of a world title in any other sport in a town with 1 title ever is unacceptable, is banging the drum to get Coach Bud out of town because he hasn't been able to replicate this model because you can just do it. Just go get those players.
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May 9, 2017 14:00
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The Jazz are probably one of the teams that has done the best job building through the draft recently and their last 3 top 10 picks are still Dante Exum, Enes Kanter, and Trey Burke. The draft is hard!
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May 9, 2017 14:51
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Hand Knit posted:Were you the person last offseason saying that "second-tier team that could sneak into the finals in an injury-lucky year" was a fine place to be? I think a couple of people were arguing that. I'm generally okay with that but I think it might be quite costly just to maintain that this offseason. Lowry, Patterson-role, and Ross-role aren't coming back at cost, so just treading water would probably require them to commit quite a bit of money. Was that when JV was drafted? Because I feel like that makes it more defensible, since they maybe thought he could do 20-12 instead of 12-9. I like JV, but unfortunately this league went from being wafer-thin at C to being fairly strong, so nobody really needs him unless there's somebody out there who wildly overvalues him.
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May 9, 2017 15:00
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https://twitter.com/JLew1050/status/861968273507856384 https://twitter.com/Paul__Jones/status/861962723135029248 Plz Masai (nothing will probably change) CRISPYBABY fucked around with this message at 18:17 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 18:14
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If only there was a person responsible for determining a team's playing style. Some type of leadership position that tells the players on the court what to do. Like a life coach for tactics and play calling. They should get one of those.
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May 9, 2017 18:20
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BWV posted:If only there was a person responsible for determining a team's playing style. Some type of leadership position that tells the players on the court what to do. Like a life coach for tactics and play calling. They should get one of those. run the dang ball raps
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May 9, 2017 18:40
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Mavs slowly planning end of roster moves with Chinese domestic MVP, Ding Yanyuhang. https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-mavericks/mavericks/2017/05/12/potential-chinese-signingding-jinhui-benefit-mavericks-court
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May 13, 2017 21:10
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https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/864207232749060098
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May 15, 2017 22:31
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I think part of the problem I have with some of the outrage over it is that I don't like instantly reach for my remote to change the channel or whatever as people apparently must do or whatever. Watching a game with 60 free throws is indeed bad but watching a guy get fouled and get an extra free throw once or twice a game isn't a dealbreaker for me.
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May 15, 2017 23:54
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https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/864335378462855171 Welp. Bench is just the worst one of all time, apparently.
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May 16, 2017 14:58
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Raptors should probably fire their poo poo rear end coach before they get too crazy
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May 16, 2017 15:04
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Kibner posted:https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/864335378462855171 Their bench was super lovely. That Mahinmi contract might be the difference between the Wizards being contenders and not.
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May 16, 2017 15:15
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Kibner posted:https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/864335378462855171 Wow, I knew it was bad but didn't realize it was that bad.
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May 16, 2017 18:37
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A good article about the death of Bryce Dejean-Jones: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2709769-the-night-that-cost-bryce-dejean-jones-his-life-and-nba-dream Not the first time someone has been done in by an anger problem exacerbated by alcohol and won't be the last. I'm always sad and angry at him every time I'm reminded of this.
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May 16, 2017 21:33
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Kibner posted:A good article about the death of Bryce Dejean-Jones: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2709769-the-night-that-cost-bryce-dejean-jones-his-life-and-nba-dream Heartbreaking on all sides.
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May 16, 2017 22:04
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https://twitter.com/the_real_gabby/status/864863890311663616
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May 17, 2017 21:13
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I'll believe it when I see it
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May 17, 2017 21:15
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This is a dirty lie and I am gonna stab someone
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May 17, 2017 21:15
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It's like the "Ricky Rubio is never leaving Spain to join the Timberwolves" thing just never died and keeps lurching around. No guys, seriously, THIS TIME HE'S GONE. The fact that he took a below-max contract the first chance an extension was available to stay in Minnesota clearly indicates he wants out. Especially now that he's surrounded by young talent.
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May 17, 2017 21:31
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the legend grows https://streamable.com/2y7eb
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May 17, 2017 21:41
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Lockback posted:Their bench was super lovely. That Mahinmi contract might be the difference between the Wizards being contenders and not. Its amazing that 2 centers got worse contracts that Mozgov last summer
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May 17, 2017 21:46
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attackmole posted:the legend grows He died for your sins Or maybe Embiids feet & knees form the trinity with hinkie as the Originator
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May 18, 2017 00:00
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I was so desperately hornt up for that rumored Reggie Jackson for Rubio and some other stuff trade
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May 18, 2017 00:04
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attackmole posted:the legend grows https://twitter.com/SportsRadioWIP/status/864611947395911682 They also raised thousands of $ for charity by having a big cardboard cutout of Vlade Divac for a "celebrity photograph". https://twitter.com/tallmaurice/status/864605150509490177
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May 18, 2017 00:10
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