The Science Fiction and Fantasy Thread: Read the OP, Bridge of Birds, and Murderbot

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Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

He also seems to focus on the details but not the experience of those details

He tells us the suit does yadda and works like yadda and had a tube up your butthole and penis and etc. but I am not getting a good idea of what it is like inside there

What happens if your face itches? What does it actually feel like to poop in a tube up your rear end in a top hat. Is the inside of the suit stuff, or comfortable? Do people experience claustrophobia.

# ? May 9, 2017 17:52

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# ? May 22, 2024 07:29

less laughter: May 7, 2012; Accelerock & Roll

Mel, put down FW and move on to Too Like The Lightning

# ? May 9, 2017 17:54

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Mel Mudkiper posted:

I do not get how a man can spend a page describing a suit and then land on an alien planet and just say "Its a jungle"

FW is a Vietnam allegory, he didn't need to describe the jungle. If you really want to read his description of a jungle, find a copy of War Year. That's an actual Vietnam experience novel.

# ? May 9, 2017 18:08

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

mllaneza posted:

FW is a Vietnam allegory, he didn't need to describe the jungle. If you really want to read his description of a jungle, find a copy of War Year. That's an actual Vietnam experience novel.

Well yeah obviously its a Vietnam war allegory. I don't get why that means how a missile works should get a page of text and the planet they are on a sentence.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

It's also a little weird reading Forever War without having read Heinlein, and specifically Starship Troopers, first. It was pretty much a direct response.

I've read it before

the movie is better

Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 18:16 on May 9, 2017

# ? May 9, 2017 18:11

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

It's also a little weird reading Forever War without having read Heinlein, and specifically Starship Troopers, first. It was pretty much a direct response.

# ? May 9, 2017 18:13

ShinsoBEAM!: Nov 6, 2008; "Even if this body of mine is turned to dust, I will defend my country."

The main problem with reading Starship Troopers and Forever War is that they were influential enough to have spawned thousands of copy-cats some of which are actually good and far more relevant to the reader today.

# ? May 9, 2017 18:24

Ben Nevis: Jan 20, 2011

Mel Mudkiper posted:

He also seems to focus on the details but not the experience of those details

He tells us the suit does yadda and works like yadda and had a tube up your butthole and penis and etc. but I am not getting a good idea of what it is like inside there

What happens if your face itches? What does it actually feel like to poop in a tube up your rear end in a top hat. Is the inside of the suit stuff, or comfortable? Do people experience claustrophobia.

Don't tell me what's up your butthole. Show me.

# ? May 9, 2017 18:28

Mr Chaos: Dec 27, 2006; I left it in my other pants...shoes...I never had it.

I want to start the third "City of ___" book. I've read the past 2 and really enjoyed them, but I don't know if it's something about the author, but I can't remember the details of the last few chapters of either book. Can someone spoil the ending of them for me so I've got the details down for the third one.

City of Stairs ended with the main character discovering the gods were hiding in a tomb in a mirror then something something happened and a trikster god was revealed? Her ex boyfriend was somehow involved? She stopped it somehow? Details?

City of blades ended with the main character finding a former coworker who everyone thought was dead in the dead world pretending to be the war god? Then she took up the mantle and told the dead to come back home and not conquer earth? Is that right?

I really did like those books, not sure why I remember the conclusions so vaguely.

# ? May 9, 2017 19:37

my bony fealty: Oct 1, 2008

Mr Chaos posted:

I want to start the third "City of ___" book. I've read the past 2 and really enjoyed them, but I don't know if it's something about the author, but I can't remember the details of the last few chapters of either book. Can someone spoil the ending of them for me so I've got the details down for the third one.

I have only read the first one but I recall: the protagonist takes a bunch of drugs and fights the re-awakened god(s) who were actually not dead, and wins, and then coups her aunt to become prime minister of not-India. turns out she and her family and their myth hero were related to the Gods all along! even though they hated them! I don't remember either really, and I liked it too.

PlushCow posted:

TOR's ebook of the month is Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep, it's a good book and you should signup and get it for free http://www.tor.com/2017/05/09/torcom-ebook-club-may/

I like its sequel/prequel A Deepness in the Sky a great deal, and you should read it if you like A Fire Upon the Deep.

I'm seemingly the only person who doesn't like A Fire Upon the Deep but I still think sf fans should read it. I've had the prequel sitting on my shelf for years and never cracked it because of how much I didn't like Fire, but haven't ditched it because one day I will read it (my least favorite part of Fire is the Tines and it lacks those entirely I think?).

# ? May 9, 2017 19:47

Snuffman: May 21, 2004

Mr Chaos posted:

I want to start the third "City of ___" book. I've read the past 2 and really enjoyed them, but I don't know if it's something about the author, but I can't remember the details of the last few chapters of either book. Can someone spoil the ending of them for me so I've got the details down for the third one.

City of Stairs ended with the main character discovering the gods were hiding in a tomb in a mirror then something something happened and a trikster god was revealed? Her ex boyfriend was somehow involved? She stopped it somehow? Details?

Close. The Trickster god merged with another god, trapped in a mirror and was basically bonkers (from being trapped in a mirror and merged). The Ex was part of a cult that knew about the mirror and wanted to bring the god back but I don't think they knew about the other god they'd merged with? With those two gods dead, mirror related miracles stopped working.

Also it was revealed that the one remaining goddess is still very much alive but in hiding.

quote:

City of blades ended with the main character finding a former coworker who everyone thought was dead in the dead world pretending to be the war god? Then she took up the mantle and told the dead to come back home and not conquer earth? Is that right?

I really did like those books, not sure why I remember the conclusions so vaguely.

100% correct.

Snuffman fucked around with this message at 19:54 on May 9, 2017

# ? May 9, 2017 19:49

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Snuffman posted:

Close. The Trickster god merged with another god, trapped in a mirror and was basically bonkers (from being trapped in a mirror and merged). The Ex was part of a cult that knew about the mirror and wanted to bring the god back but I don't think they knew about the other god they'd merged with? With those two gods dead, mirror related miracles stopped working.

Also it was revealed that the one remaining goddess is still very much alive but in hiding.

100% correct.

The ex was specifically not part of a cult. His lunatic brother was. The ex died flipping off the god who'd made his life hell for being gay.

# ? May 9, 2017 20:01

occamsnailfile: Nov 4, 2007; zamtrios so lonely; Grimey Drawer

Also the hidden goddess wasn't really in hiding so much as voluntary exile--her worshipers had decided they didn't need her direct intervention anymore, and so she took a hike. Being inhuman, holding onto power wasn't something important to her, and the gods are/were explicitly influenced by what their flock desired--this drove the imprisoned god insane as he tried to understand humans' needs for order even before the trickster god got into him. The goddess's remaining cult continued to worship her but in a more esoteric way, and devoted themselves to good works. They were portrayed as a small sect of limited resources, but persistent.

I have City of Blades on the shelf, I should read that. I read American Elsewhere not too long ago and while it had its flaws I really enjoyed it.

# ? May 9, 2017 20:24

Ornamented Death: Jan 25, 2006; Pew pew!

American Elsewhere would have been a lot better if it was about 200 pages shorter.

# ? May 9, 2017 21:01

Cardiac: Aug 28, 2012

Mr Chaos posted:

I want to start the third "City of ___" book. I've read the past 2 and really enjoyed them, but I don't know if it's something about the author, but I can't remember the details of the last few chapters of either book. Can someone spoil the ending of them for me so I've got the details down for the third one.

City of Stairs ended with the main character discovering the gods were hiding in a tomb in a mirror then something something happened and a trikster god was revealed? Her ex boyfriend was somehow involved? She stopped it somehow? Details?

City of blades ended with the main character finding a former coworker who everyone thought was dead in the dead world pretending to be the war god? Then she took up the mantle and told the dead to come back home and not conquer earth? Is that right?

I really did like those books, not sure why I remember the conclusions so vaguely.

I am two-third through and is enjoying it.
As with the others, each book is relatively loosely connected to one another and most important things are recapped early on.
One of the interesting facets of the series is how the world in the background is transformed from a fantasy world to an industrial world.

# ? May 9, 2017 21:20

PlushCow: Oct 19, 2005; The cow eats the grass

my bony fealty posted:

I have only read the first one but I recall: the protagonist takes a bunch of drugs and fights the re-awakened god(s) who were actually not dead, and wins, and then coups her aunt to become prime minister of not-India. turns out she and her family and their myth hero were related to the Gods all along! even though they hated them! I don't remember either really, and I liked it too.

I'm seemingly the only person who doesn't like A Fire Upon the Deep but I still think sf fans should read it. I've had the prequel sitting on my shelf for years and never cracked it because of how much I didn't like Fire, but haven't ditched it because one day I will read it (my least favorite part of Fire is the Tines and it lacks those entirely I think?).

There's no Tines, but they show up in the third book (which I've never read). If it's any impetus to read A Deepness in the Sky , it's much better than A Fire Upon the Deep. There's a few things that I think reading Fire first makes the prequel better, but not completely necessary to enjoy.

# ? May 9, 2017 21:38

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

uberkeyzer posted:

Tooth and Claw sounds dope, I'll have to read that.

Re the failure to look back and cringe, how about all her gushing about and distribution to her friends of The Number of the Beast, which may be one of the most embarrassing "mainstream" SF books ever written? Man, that book is bad.

I must've forgotten that bit, because no argument that is one lovely book.

# ? May 9, 2017 21:41

ToxicFrog: Apr 26, 2008

my bony fealty posted:

I'm seemingly the only person who doesn't like A Fire Upon the Deep but I still think sf fans should read it. I've had the prequel sitting on my shelf for years and never cracked it because of how much I didn't like Fire, but haven't ditched it because one day I will read it (my least favorite part of Fire is the Tines and it lacks those entirely I think?).

Correct, Deepness has a completely different alien species.

# ? May 9, 2017 21:56

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Groke posted:

Nah, I read that way back when it came out, it was cool and clever and neat. Also, I liked how the protagonists had head issues but got the gently caress over them enough to use their heads to be clever and also summon a loving spaceman hero with power armor, sure, why not.

It's also, imo, a genuinely feminist novel, which is mildly weird given the author.

# ? May 9, 2017 22:05

Jack2142: Jul 17, 2014; Shitposting in Seattle

Oh I just remembered a book Mel should read to really get a feel for the Sci-fi genre, i.e. anything by John Ringo preferably something like the Last Centurion.

# ? May 10, 2017 01:28

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Jack2142 posted:

Oh I just remembered a book Mel should read to really get a feel for the Sci-fi genre, i.e. anything by John Ringo preferably something like the Last Centurion.

Give me a little credit

# ? May 10, 2017 01:31

freebooter: Jul 7, 2009

ShinsoBEAM! posted:

Welcome to the genre, thankfully it seems to be doing less and less of that in recent years.

If you havn't seen it before the classic post David Weber orders a Pizza appropriately mocks some of the genre writing.

I find Mark Rosenfelder's version more concise and funnier:

quote:

If all stories were written like science fiction stories
by Mark Rosenfelder

Roger and Ann needed to meet Sergey in San Francisco.

�Should we take a train, or a steamship, or a plane?� asked Ann.

�Trains are too slow, and the trip by steamship around South America would take months,� replied Roger. �We�ll take a plane.�

He logged onto the central network using his personal computer, and waited while the system verified his identity. With a few keystrokes he entered an electronic ticketing system, and entered the codes for his point of departure and his destination. In moments the computer displayed a list of possible flights, and he picked the earliest one. Dollars were automatically deducted from his personal account to pay for the transaction.

The planes left from the city airport, which they reached using the city bi-rail. Ann had changed into her travelling outfit, which consisted of a light shirt in polycarbon-derived artifical fabric, which showed off her pert figure, without genetic enhancements, and dark blue pants made of textiles. Her attractive brown hair was uncovered.

At the airport Roger presented their identification cards to a representative of the airline company, who used her own computer system to check his identity and retrieve his itinerary. She entered a confirmation number, and gave him two passes which gave them access to the boarding area. They now underwent a security inspection, which was required for all airline flights. They handed their luggage to another representative; it would be transported in a separate, unpressurized chamber on the aircraft.

�Do you think we�ll be flying on a propeller plane? Or one of the newer jets?� asked Ann.

�I�m sure it will be a jet,� said Roger. �Propeller planes are almost entirely out of date, after all. On the other hand, rocket engines are still experimental. It�s said that when they�re in general use, trips like this will take an hour at most. This one will take up to four hours.�

After a short wait, they were ushered onto the plane with the other passengers. The plane was an enormous steel cylinder at least a hundred meters long, with sleek backswept wings on which four jet engines were mounted. They glanced into the front cabin and saw the two pilots, consulting a bank of equipment needed the fly the plane. Roger was glad that he did not need to fly the plane himself; it was a difficult profession which required years of training.

The surprisingly large passenger area was equipped with soft benches, and windows through which they could look down at the countryside as they flew 11 km high at more than 800 km/h. There were nozzles for the pressurized air which kept the atmosphere in the cabin warm and comfortable despite the coldness of the stratosphere.

�I�m a little nervous,� Ann said, before the plane took off.

�There�s nothing to worry about,� he assured her. �These flights are entirely routine. You�re safer than you are in our ground transport cars!�

Despite his calm words, Roger had to admit to some nervousness as the pilot took off, and the land dropped away below them. He and the other passengers watched out the windows for a long time. With difficulty, he could make out houses and farms and moving vehicles far below.

�There are more people going to San Francisco today than I would have expected,� he remarked.

�Some of them may in fact be going elsewhere,� she answered. �As you know, it�s expensive to provide airplane links between all possible locations. We employ a hub system, and people from smaller cities travel first to the hub, and then to their final destination. Fortunately, you found us a flight that takes us straight to San Francisco.�

When they arrived at the San Francisco airport, agents of the airline company helped them out of their seats and retrieved their luggage, checking the numeric tags to ensure that they were given to the right people.

�I can hardly believe we�re already in another city,� said Ann. �Just four hours ago we were in Chicago.�

�We�re not quite there!� corrected Roger. �We�re in the airport, which is some distance from the city, since it requires a good deal of space on the ground, and because of occasional accidents. From here we�ll take a smaller vehicle into the city.�

They selected one of the hydrocarbon-powered ground transports from the queue which waited outside the airport. The fee was small enough that it was not paid electronically, but using portable dollar tokens. The driver conducted his car unit into the city; though he drove only at 100 km/hr, it felt much faster since they were only a meter from the concrete road surface. He looked over at Ann, concerned that the speed might alarm her; but she seemed to be enjoying the ride. A game girl, and intelligent as well!

At last the driver stopped his car, and they had arrived. Electronic self-opening doors welcomed them to Sergey�s building. The entire trip had taken less than seven hours.

But obviously in sci-fi you have to make some concessions to explaining your made-up world to your readers. Better writers just disguise it better. I think William Gibson is constantly cited as someone who just drops you into the world and expects you to keep up, but that's not quite true; there's just a big difference between brazenly spoonfeeding your readers, or giving them a more steady drip of information in a less obvious way.

# ? May 10, 2017 02:14

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

GreyjoyBastard posted:

It's also, imo, a genuinely feminist novel, which is mildly weird given the author.

He's shown a lot of improvement over the course of his career. The horrific missteps in the first Covenant book were left far behind for Mirrors, or even the second Covenant trilogy. Then we got Angus Thermopylae and the most hosed up face turn ever.

f.ed. I just looked around and he has a new series starting up in November ! I'm always down for centuries of sorcerous warfare.

# ? May 10, 2017 02:43

Kalenn Istarion: Nov 2, 2012; Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

ShinsoBEAM! posted:

Welcome to the genre, thankfully it seems to be doing less and less of that in recent years.

If you havn't seen it before the classic post David Weber orders a Pizza appropriately mocks some of the genre writing.

Jesus Christ

# ? May 10, 2017 06:14

90s Cringe Rock: Nov 29, 2006

PlushCow posted:

There's no Tines, but they show up in the third book (which I've never read).

Do not read the third book, which was a) released over a decade later b) awful.

# ? May 10, 2017 06:32

Rough Lobster: May 27, 2009; Don't be such a squid, bro

Chairchucker posted:

If you think that's his biggest reason for shame you have missed this little takedown: http://hradzka.livejournal.com/392471.html

Let's put Piers Anthony and John Ringo on a boat together and send it out to the middle of the sea and have them knife fight to the death.

Afterwards we napalm the boat

# ? May 10, 2017 08:04

ShinsoBEAM!: Nov 6, 2008; "Even if this body of mine is turned to dust, I will defend my country."

Rough Lobster posted:

Let's put Piers Anthony and John Ringo on a boat together and send it out to the middle of the sea and have them knife fight to the death.

Afterwards we napalm the boat

That's just asking for them to wash up on the shore of an island filled with nubile young women with no men around you know.

freebooter posted:

I find Mark Rosenfelder's version more concise and funnier:

The lack of conciseness is kind of the point, but that one is good too.

# ? May 10, 2017 15:17

90s Cringe Rock: Nov 29, 2006

ShinsoBEAM! posted:

That's just asking for them to wash up on the shore of an island filled with nubile young women with no men around you know.

"Girls of marriageable age." Truly a living hell for Anthony, but Ringo'll be ok if they're blonde and have enormous breasts.

# ? May 10, 2017 16:51

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

I remember This American Life did a story about a 10 year old boy who ran away from home to live with Piers Anthony and I was genuinely surprised it didn't end with "He was last seen alive entering the home"

# ? May 10, 2017 17:44

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Were parts 1 and 2 of Forever War written way after each other? The shift in tone and style and substance from the first section to the second in jarring. The first section felt like an empty listing of scientific theories with stock characters. The second section actually has development and depth and sincerity. I feel like a completely different writer did the second section.

# ? May 10, 2017 21:08

occamsnailfile: Nov 4, 2007; zamtrios so lonely; Grimey Drawer

The current Humble Books bundle claims to be the "Nebula Awards Bundle" but it seems to be more a loosely-collected series of authors along the common theme of 'were willing to agree to Humble's royalty terms' or something like that. That said, there's some really good stuff in there, old and new.

# ? May 10, 2017 21:27

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Were parts 1 and 2 of Forever War written way after each other? The shift in tone and style and substance from the first section to the second in jarring. The first section felt like an empty listing of scientific theories with stock characters. The second section actually has development and depth and sincerity. I feel like a completely different writer did the second section.

It's apparently a fix-up of 4 stories that appeared in Analog from 1972-1975.

http://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/haldeman_joe

# ? May 10, 2017 22:09

Robot Wendigo: Jul 9, 2013; Grimey Drawer

uberkeyzer posted:

Anyone here read Among Others by Jo Walton? I just finished it and it's really a well done and charming mix of SF-ish fairy story and British boarding school / coming of age novel. It's particularly appealing for those of us who've read a lot in-genre as the main character talks a lot about Heinlein, LeGuin, etc. (and talks poo poo about Thomas Covenant and Piers Anthony...) Anything else by Walton that's worth reading?

Yes, and absolutely adored it to hell and back. I think it would make a great basis for a Seventies science fiction course, even if the lead character is totally wrong about Thomas Covenant.

Robot Wendigo fucked around with this message at 01:46 on May 11, 2017

# ? May 11, 2017 01:42

Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi: Mar 26, 2005

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Were parts 1 and 2 of Forever War written way after each other? The shift in tone and style and substance from the first section to the second in jarring. The first section felt like an empty listing of scientific theories with stock characters. The second section actually has development and depth and sincerity. I feel like a completely different writer did the second section.

I definitely noticed this too when I read it, so you're not alone. FWIW, the rest of the book is a lot more like part 2 than part 1.

# ? May 11, 2017 13:42

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:

I definitely noticed this too when I read it, so you're not alone. FWIW, the rest of the book is a lot more like part 2 than part 1.

Yeah, I am enjoying it a lot more now.

I wish the section about returning home was the entire book honestly. Time dilation as a metaphorical magnification of post-war alienation is really interesting and I am way more interested in that than the space battles.

# ? May 11, 2017 14:06

Ornamented Death: Jan 25, 2006; Pew pew!

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Yeah, I am enjoying it a lot more now.

I wish the section about returning home was the entire book honestly. Time dilation as a metaphorical magnification of post-war alienation is really interesting and I am way more interested in that than the space battles.

You may eventually want to check out the sequel (Forever Free, not Forever Peace) as it explores more of dynamic. As a warning, though, it gets really weird with it's philosophy in the end, but I still enjoyed it a lot.

# ? May 11, 2017 14:22

Ceebees: Nov 2, 2011; I'm intentionally being as verbose as possible in negotiations for my own amusement.

Ornamented Death posted:

You may eventually want to check out the sequel (Forever Free, not Forever Peace) as it explores more of dynamic. As a warning, though, it gets really weird with it's philosophy in the end, but I still enjoyed it a lot.

Counterpoint: Forever Free also made interesting points about war and peace and people, whereas Forever Peace was dumb and bad.

# ? May 11, 2017 19:51

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Finished Forever War

It was... bizarrely paced.

The novel kept having moments that should have lasted chapters lasting paragraphs. The entire ending felt like it was in fast-forward. I thought when it was successful, it was fantastic. When it is was not successful, it showed its age.

Anyways, on to Neuromancer

# ? May 11, 2017 19:56

Sibling of TB: Aug 4, 2007

Ceebees posted:

Counterpoint: Forever Free also made interesting points about war and peace and people, whereas Forever Peace was dumb and bad.

Is agreeing with someone a counterpoint?

# ? May 11, 2017 19:58

Ornamented Death: Jan 25, 2006; Pew pew!

Sibling of TB posted:

Is agreeing with someone a counterpoint?

I suspect he may have gotten the titles mixed up? I had to look up which was which before making that post. I also haven't read Forever Peace, so my post wasn't intended to be a comment on its quality, just that it was not the sequel to Forever War.

# ? May 11, 2017 20:05

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# ? May 22, 2024 07:29

Ben Nevis: Jan 20, 2011

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Anyways, on to Neuromancer

I'm anxiously awaiting this update.

# ? May 11, 2017 20:06

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The Science Fiction and Fantasy Thread: Read the OP, Bridge of Birds, and Murderbot

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