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Revenant Threshold posted:That Ego has his unknown Dead Kid Cave secret isn't your points, that's the text of the film. The point you made that I was addressing was your belief that "Sex is uncomfortable and disruptive in the movie's universe, and it threatens all life in the galaxy.", and later on, "what is the source of fear is - it's the father's promiscuity." Both ideas are actively disagreed with by both text and subtext of the film. Both two big villains have eliminated, or seek to eliminate, promiscuity and sex, and thwart procreation, either before it happens or after. Sex is a disruptive element in the movie - a huge, all-consuming and growing thing that in GotG2 threatens families and life (a tumour is what kills Meredith Quill). Victory is achieved by cleasing the infectious organism. Chaste or family-like embraces represent the height of healthy love in the movies. Revenant Threshold posted:The metaphors actually end up working pretty well together; Ego's fatherhood isn't portrayed as negative, and to the contrary, when he's "dad Ego" he gets portrayed well. It's his rejection of fatherhood for the mantle of invasive species that's the problem. His abandonment of one role for another highlights the difference between the two concepts. It's mixed metaphors, since abusive fathers and existential threats are intimidating for largely opposite reasons. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 19:57 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 19:53
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:the father has a skeleton full of closets, he has other women and other children. These are all things that children fear. This look into your home life explains a lot about your posting.
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May 9, 2017 19:59
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It was clearly a dairy queen. The big ego blobs feel like they didn't really make much sense, they didn't feel visually connected to ego or to the little red blood cell filled pineapples they came out of. They didn't give any particular appearance they were terraforming anything, it just seemed like foam inflating. They just seemed formless, yeah. Primordial, Amoebic, cancerous, but certainly consuming. It reminded me of The Blob remake, which Gunn is a huge fan of.
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May 9, 2017 20:02
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Mulva posted:This look into your home life explains a lot about your posting. That their parents don't care about them is a common fear for children. it's pretty basic. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 20:11 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 20:09
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Children fear that their parents do not care for them. it's pretty basic. Most actually don't, as healthy children tend to have a nice protective sheen of nearly sociopathic self-interest by and large. It's only later in life that they develop the scope to actually consider the self in relation to others in such a way as to go "What if everything I believe is just a lie and reality is actually far different?". Children that actually wonder if everything is secretly horrible are rare [Not massively so, but still] and often given a reason to question. Be it some tragedy or poor parenting. Which were you?
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May 9, 2017 20:14
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Franchescanado posted:They just seemed formless, yeah. Primordial, Amoebic, cancerous, but certainly consuming. It reminded me of The Blob remake, which Gunn is a huge fan of. I guess a cancer tumor destroying peter's home town does make some sense thematically. Visually it just felt very disconnected from a space pineapple with red blood cells in it that it was coming from and from ego the planet that it eventually was supposedly going to become. Like if they didn't say what it was doing I wouldn't know what it was doing.
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May 9, 2017 20:16
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Mulva posted:Most actually don't, as healthy children tend to have a nice protective sheen of nearly sociopathic self-interest by and large. It's only later in life that they develop the scope to actually consider the self in relation to others in such a way as to go "What if everything I believe is just a lie and reality is actually far different?". Children that actually wonder if everything is secretly horrible are rare [Not massively so, but still] and often given a reason to question. Be it some tragedy or poor parenting. BravestOfTheLamps fears that posters do not care for them. And like the raccoon in the movie they hate, they lash out against pop culture their peers enjoy and mocks the arguments of other posters to hide their soft vulnerable fear. "They came," says BravestOfTheLamps. "Even though he posted weak arguments based around blurry pictures of Man of Steel." "Well yeah," says Star-Lord. "He paid his $10." A tear forms in BravestOfTheLamps eye and gently falls down their face.
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May 9, 2017 20:18
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I guess a cancer tumor destroying peter's home town does make some sense thematically. Even that pineapple thing is a cancerous tumor for the planet he "impregnates". It was unable to make him feel connected to the universe at large, and so he must destroy it.
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May 9, 2017 20:21
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Mulva posted:Most actually don't, as healthy children tend to have a nice protective sheen of nearly sociopathic self-interest by and large. It's only later in life that they develop the scope to actually consider the self in relation to others in such a way as to go "What if everything I believe is just a lie and reality is actually far different?". Children that actually wonder if everything is secretly horrible are rare [Not massively so, but still] and often given a reason to question. Be it some tragedy or poor parenting. You seem to have lost focus from comic book movies and how the villain in GotG2 is an ineffective mix of poorly-articulated father-son worries and sci-fi concepts. lol. That's a Clevining.
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May 9, 2017 20:28
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Sex is a disruptive element in the movie - a huge, all-consuming and growing thing that in GotG2 threatens families and life (a tumour is what kills Meredith Quill). Victory is achieved by cleasing the infectious organism. Chaste or family-like embraces represent the height of healthy love in the movies. Seriously, though; it's not sex that's a "huge, all-consuming and growing thing" that provides a threat. Quite the opposite; the literal, textual example is Ego self-propagating, and destroying the good that came from sex in order to do so. On the emotional level, same thing; Ego's huge quest that consumes him utterly leads him to murder his own family, not sex. And that itself can be presented only a bad thing when the results of sex - his children's existence - is presented as a good thing. And again, with the whole "chaste" thing - the Sovereign are chaste, double-down on their chastity as they double-down on their villainy, and they are not portrayed as an example of "healthy love", let alone the height of it. Victory is achieved by cleansing the infectious organism - that part is quite correct. Nothing to do with sex, though. quote:It's mixed metaphors, since abusive fathers and existential threats are intimidating for largely opposite reasons. Revenant Threshold fucked around with this message at 20:39 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 20:37
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You seem to have lost focus from comic book movies and how the villain in GotG2 is an ineffective mix of poorly-articulated father-son worries and sci-fi concepts. No I'm pretty sure nothing you've said has ever actually been about movies.
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May 9, 2017 20:37
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I enjoy BravestOfTheLamps posts because it is really cool to watch someone with self-diagnosed Aspergers explain how he used "objective metrics" to calculate humor. It's nice to see things from different angles.
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May 9, 2017 20:46
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Revenant Threshold posted:Seriously, though; it's not sex that's a "huge, all-consuming and growing thing" that provides a threat. Quite the opposite; the literal, textual example is Ego self-propagating, and destroying the good that came from sex in order to do so. It is the only sex that certifiably exists in GotG 2. Ego is the only sex-haver - everyone else has to make do with offscreen conquests or hugs. That's why sex ends up being bad in the movie Revenant Threshold posted:the threat of the abusive father and the threat of the existential threat are the same; death, and usage to further Ego. . Yes, global warming is very much like abusive fathers. Mulva posted:No I'm pretty sure nothing you've said has ever actually been about movies. It's true. I've been talking Ovid's Metamorphoses the whole time.
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May 9, 2017 20:48
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Mulva posted:No I'm pretty sure nothing you've said has ever actually been about movies. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I enjoy BravestOfTheLamps posts because it is really cool to watch someone with self-diagnosed Aspergers explain how he used "objective metrics" to calculate humor. 
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May 9, 2017 20:50
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Your image macro is a bit self-defeating - you're equating me with Superman, the embodiment of Truth and Justice.
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May 9, 2017 20:55
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Or he's comparing you to someone who died because they were too stupid to let a point go.
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May 9, 2017 21:06
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Superman is a badguy, so it makes sense.
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May 9, 2017 21:09
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Mulva posted:Or he's comparing you to someone who died because they were too stupid to let a point go. I don't think it'll come to that.
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May 9, 2017 21:11
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If a villain has a bunch of kids and murders them, and you think him having kids is supposed to be the bad part, that might say more about you than it does about the movie.
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May 9, 2017 21:33
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Lord Hydronium posted:If a villain has a bunch of kids and murders them, and you think him having kids is supposed to be the bad part, that might say more about you than it does about the movie. It's not the bad part.
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May 9, 2017 21:37
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It's not like there's a "good part" to his plan of breeding children as batteries and then killing them if they don't work out. It's like if a villain builds a fortress to imprison and kill his enemies you don't separate that into the "good part" of employing a bunch of contractors to build the thing and stimulating the economy
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May 9, 2017 21:53
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Piell posted:Says a person who never watched wrestling guilty
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May 9, 2017 21:58
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Krataar posted:Edit: The funeral caught me off guard and actually hit super hard. Really? They telegraphed that way hard at the beginning of the movie. Hodgepodge posted:i wouldn't have thought a man once known primarily for "can you smell what The Rock is cooking" to be capable of comedy, much less be good at it Are you kidding, The Rock has always had amazing stage presence. raditts fucked around with this message at 22:02 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 21:59
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Also it's kind of funny watching Bravest be so obnoxious that he can't convince people of a point which is blatantly obvious 
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May 9, 2017 22:02
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Hodgepodge posted:Also it's kind of funny watching Bravest be so obnoxious that he can't convince people of a point which is blatantly obvious Marvel movies being anti-sex is a real reach. I don't want to say they're kids movies, but y'all know you can put sex scenes in a movie where a large chunk of the audience is families, right? Quill's got that pink woman in his ship and talks to Drax about the various species he's hosed; that's about as raunchy as it's going to get in a movie that also wants parents to go buy toys and comics for their 8-year-olds. (I know someone is going to sperg out on that; I'm not saying selling toys is the main goal of the movie.) James Gunn puts his own fears of spoiling the cast chemistry in Quill's mouth in this movie. I don't think his fears are well-founded, and I think Quill and Gamora dancing around getting together is wearing very thin, but you gotta take a big stretch to be like "No, that explicitly stated reason is not the real reason they aren't getting together, it's because Marvel hates sex."
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May 9, 2017 22:21
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I find it hilarious how quick some of you are to start arm-chair psycho analyzing lamp's childhood while ignoring weirdo goons who are straight up projecting their father issues onto the movie and blubbering like babies at "all the feels" instead of taking a step back and asking themselves why they're imprinting onto characters in a big budget tent pole comic book movie. The cult of personality that people adopt when hyping themselves over these movies is getting really parasitic. Don't forget Gunn has that Troma background. It's not a coincidence that sex is the big fat elephant dick in the ruddiger fucked around with this message at 22:25 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 22:22
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Wait what? People being able to relate to a story about family and fatherhood is the real problem?
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May 9, 2017 22:23
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Discussing and deconstructing themes of fatherhood is fine and dare I say good, blubbering like a baby at "Quill has a dad just like me! He played catch! Like a dad! Which made me cry!" is empty cheerleading for an idea put forth with no critical thought behind it.
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May 9, 2017 22:27
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ruddiger posted:I find it hilarious how quick some of you are to start arm-chair psycho analyzing lamp's childhood while ignoring weirdo goons who are straight up projecting their father issues onto the movie and blubbering like babies at "all the feels" instead of taking a step back and asking themselves why they're imprinting onto characters in a big budget tent pole comic book movie. The cult of personality that people adopt when hyping themselves over these movies is getting really parasitic. Are you self-diagnosed like Bravest or have you been diagnosed by a professional? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 9, 2017 22:37
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First Bravest, now a movie about inadequacy with yourself and your relationship with others and father/son dynamics isn't about father/son dynamics. All that's left for this thread is for SMG to come in and talk about how it's metatexually about how ecstasy gave comfort to counterculture during the aids epidemic because of impotency in Somalia because Yondu likes cleaning his teeth with sticks or some poo poo.
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May 9, 2017 22:48
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PostNouveau posted:Marvel movies being anti-sex is a real reach. I haven't seen enough Marvel movies to say overall. In Iron Man, Tony's womanizing is definitely used to demonstrate his egotistical nature, though. And Ego's plan is straightforwardly to destroy countless worlds by reproducing himself. In this case, what is being shown is, of course, the wrong motive for parenthood- using your child as a vicarious extention of oneself. It's far better to be a flawed parent like Yondu who understands that Quill is his own person. In GotG1, sex isn't a huge theme; what is mostly shown is how awkward the subject is for Quill and how clumsy he is even approaching the subject. I haven't really seen or heard of a positive depiction of functioning sexuality in any of the Marvel films, in what I've seen and heard, it's an uncomfortable, disruptive force at best. I'd be open to counter-examples, though, because there's plenty of films I just haven't seen. By contrast, in BvS, Kal's romance with Lois is questioned, but the film is quite comfortable with the sexual nature of their relationship. e: or, to be really cheeky, Quill meets his biological dad and is so grossed out by the realization that his parents hosed that it drives him to finally appreciate his adoptive father
Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 22:58 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 22:49
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Hodgepodge posted:I haven't seen enough Marvel movies to say overall. In Iron Man, Tony's womanizing is definitely used to demonstrate his egotistical nature, though. And Ego's plan is straightforwardly to destroy countless worlds by reproducing himself. In this case, what is being shown is, of course, the wrong motive for parenthood- using your child as a vicarious extention of oneself. It's far better to be a flawed parent like Yondu who understands that Quill is his own person. In GotG1, sex isn't a huge theme; what is mostly shown is how awkward the subject is for Quill and how clumsy he is even approaching the subject. Yeah, dude, like a quarter of the audience is under 12. The characters won't be loving. You can contrast it with BvS, but I sure wouldn't take my kid to see a Zach Snyder movie.
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May 9, 2017 23:12
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Thank god there's wholesome stuff like people dying painfully in the void of space.
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May 9, 2017 23:18
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PostNouveau posted:Yeah, dude, like a quarter of the audience is under 12. The characters won't be loving. You can contrast it with BvS, but I sure wouldn't take my kid to see a Zach Snyder movie. Honestly, if your kid reads, and they should, chances are that the bathtub scene won't really be anything scarring by that point. I mean maybe don't show them The Watchmen.
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May 9, 2017 23:19
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Hey guys, I'm super into all this, like, dad stuff, but is there somewhere I can get a baby groot windscreen sucker toy. I'd like to display my affinity with fun, interesting relatable characters. OK thanks.
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May 9, 2017 23:44
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Speaking of, I like that the film confirmed Baby Groot really is an amoral elder god type space monster by straight up making a 1:1 visual comparison to the tentacled space monster in the beginning of the film.
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May 9, 2017 23:53
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Since Peter was the result of a quest to create a power boost so Ego could be the galaxy, doesn't that mean that Peter is actually full of light himself and doesn't actually need Ego to be a god? I mean, if you're lacking power, charging up an empty battery sure isn't helping you be more powerful.BravestOfTheLamps posted:Ego killing Star-Lord's mother is really just effective as a swerve, otherwise you're just reiterating my own points - the father has a skeleton full of closets, he has other women and other children. These are all things that children fear. It's not very effective, so people focus on the gasp and shock of that swerve. Those are quite clearly not the things that Peter gives a flying gently caress about, let alone fears. When Peter goes with Ego to the diorama room and is told Ego's plan, his eyes become stars as he realizes the beauty of everything in the universe being connected. It is after jacking Peter into the plan that Ego begins to reveal the true motives behind it. He does this slowly to test to see if Peter is still down with the plan. As Ego ramps up the reveals, Peter maintains his agreement. All the universe being forced into the Ego? Down with it. The reveal that Ego had gone to tons of other planets and had tons of other kids? Down with it. The reveal that Ego didn't give a gently caress about any of those other kids because they were failed eugenics projects? Down with it. The reveal that the thousands of Peter's siblings had been killed by their father? Down with it. Ego tells Peter to forget about his friends because they're meaningless? Whoa, pump the breaks, now Peter starts questioning the whole thing and loses his euphoric expression. Ego tells Peter that his mom had to die, because Ego was just so in love with her? Eyes lose their stars and the guns come out. Peter's entire being throughout both volumes of Guardians is about finding connections. His break from the Ravagers at it's heart is because he believes Yondu doesn't love him, that he's just kept around because he was small enough to steal poo poo adults couldn't get too and possibly as an emergency ration. Peter in no way cares about closet skeletons, dads loving women other than moms, or their having other kids. His Daddy is a notorious space pirate that murders shitloads of people, the girl he wants to get with is a notorious assassin and mercenary, his best buddy is a kleptomaniac mad scientist who enjoys killing, and his other buddy is also a notorious killer. Peter takes pride in Yondu loving around, and only curtails sleeping around himself when it offend Gamora. Ego is the one who assumes that Peter would care about not being an only child, because Ego can't handle not being super special.
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May 9, 2017 23:58
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Gyges posted:Those are quite clearly not the things that Peter gives a flying gently caress about, let alone fears. You're confusing Star-Lord with the audience.
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May 10, 2017 00:02
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raditts posted:Really? They telegraphed that way hard at the beginning of the movie. They did, I just expected it to happen in a different movie.
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May 10, 2017 00:07
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ruddiger posted:Discussing and deconstructing themes of fatherhood is fine and dare I say good, blubbering like a baby at "Quill has a dad just like me! He played catch! Like a dad! Which made me cry!" is empty cheerleading for an idea put forth with no critical thought behind it. Art? Making people...feel...emotions? What the hell?
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