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Artum posted:Rough maths say that the odds went from just below 1 in 20 to something like 1 in 200 million. Yeah honestly I dig this because it's like if you down a super heavy in one round of infantry fire, you earned it.
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May 10, 2017 18:04
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RagnarokAngel posted:Yeah honestly I dig this because it's like if you down a super heavy in one round of infantry fire, you earned it. Honestly at that point you just weep that you got this instead of winning the lottery.
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May 10, 2017 18:05
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6 shots * 6 wounds * 6 failed saves * 6 rolls of 3 damage 1/6*1/2^6*2/3^6*1/3^6 = 9.8 x 10^-9 So more like 1 in 100 million. Way more likely.
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May 10, 2017 18:07
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Safety Factor posted:I actually think they might have hosed up on that one. Combi-weapons are going to have to go waaaaaaaaay up in points. I mean, a combi-plasma is basically just going to be a plasma gun with an attached bolter. Yeah I feel like I'm going to have to re arm my sternguard because they won't be able to afford combis now.
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May 10, 2017 18:11
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MasterSlowPoke posted:6 shots * 6 wounds * 6 failed saves * 6 rolls of 3 damage Gorkanauts t8 so its 1/2 to wound and battle cannon is -1ap so its 1/2 to save. My maths are still off though
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May 10, 2017 18:12
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chutche2 posted:Yeah I feel like I'm going to have to re arm my sternguard because they won't be able to afford combis now. But imagine how much firepower they might have between specialist ammo (however that will look) and the combi weapons...
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May 10, 2017 18:14
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Oh yeah, I forgot to hit. Battle Cannon is AP 2 though. 6 shots * 6 hits * 6 wounds * 6 failed saves * 6 rolls of 3 damage 1/6*1/2^6*1/2^6*2/3^6*1/3^6 = 1.5 x 10^-10. So 1 in 1 and a half billion, roughly.
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May 10, 2017 18:15
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chutche2 posted:heavy bolters 
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May 10, 2017 18:16
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Pendent posted:But imagine how much firepower they might have between specialist ammo (however that will look) and the combi weapons... Sure. Right now, I've got 6 sternguard with combi-plasmas and another 5 or 6 with bolters so I can fit the squad out in different ways, with the sergeant having a bolter or combi plasma. If a combi is just a bolter + plasma that's going to go from 10 points a pop to 15 or 20. I mean, a combi plasma is in every way superior to just a plasmagun.
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May 10, 2017 18:17
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chutche2 posted:Sure.
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May 10, 2017 18:19
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If a combi bolter is literally just two bolters now it gets 4 shots in rapid fire range. I wonder what that means for storm bolters?
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May 10, 2017 18:20
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Pendent posted:If a combi bolter is literally just two bolters now it gets 4 shots in rapid fire range. I wonder what that means for storm bolters? Yeah, storm bolter needs a boost. Since the TL bolter would get 2 shots at 24 inches like a current storm bolter, the only difference would be the storm bolter is assault.
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May 10, 2017 18:23
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Pendent posted:If a combi bolter is literally just two bolters now it gets 4 shots in rapid fire range. I love my gay dead clown elves
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May 10, 2017 18:24
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Pendent posted:If a combi bolter is literally just two bolters now it gets 4 shots in rapid fire range. I wonder what that means for storm bolters? Well, it gets 4 at -1 to hit each. I think combi-flamers are the real combi winners since flamers have no to hit.
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May 10, 2017 18:28
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Yeah I was rolling waaaaaay too many saves. Its 2/(6attacks)(2^6hits)(2^6wounds)(3for max damage)(3^6failed saves) = 1/26,873,856 But I wasn't alone in being several orders out so.  MasterSlowPoke posted:Oh yeah, I forgot to hit. Battle Cannon is AP 2 though. I really do doubt that its going to be roll damage dice for every single wound inflicted, you'd lose a substantial amount of time to that in a game and its unnecessary when you've got the 3 rolls per model prior to that and you'd run into "well which of these wounded models was taking 1 2 and 3 damage".
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May 10, 2017 18:28
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The Bee posted:Well, it gets 4 at -1 to hit each. I think combi-flamers are the real combi winners since flamers have no to hit. But yeah, forever combis are going to be crazy. They're going to have to go up in cost to compensate or else that's all everyone will ever run.
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May 10, 2017 18:31
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Safety Factor posted:Combi-bolters are just twin-linked bolters. There'd be no minus. quote:Combi-weapons
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May 10, 2017 18:35
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Combi bolters will just be combi weapon bolters so they'll have the -1 when firing both, that way the idea of them being worse than storm bolters sticks. Storm bolter then needs to be Rapid fire 2 since terminators would still be able to fire it and assault and its never made sense that you can fire a massive double bolter on the charge but not a regular one. Either way storm bolters just became 4 shots per dude just before you charge. 
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May 10, 2017 18:37
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Safety Factor posted:Combi-bolters are just twin-linked bolters. There'd be no minus. Combis are gonna be good. For Storm Bolters, the upside is having 2 shots at full range, vs. a single shot. Warhammer 40,000 on Facebook posted:- Tanks can split their weapons fire between different targets.
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May 10, 2017 18:42
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You doofuses.  Combi-bolters aren't combi-weapons. They have always been twin-linked bolters. As we know from the info released today, twin-linked weapons are doubling their shots instead of allowing re-rolls to hit.
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May 10, 2017 18:43
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Safety Factor posted:You doofuses. Yeah and twin-linked guns have always given rerolls. Assume nothing.
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May 10, 2017 18:44
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Safety Factor posted:You doofuses. They were only twin linked bolters because a bolter that could be fired once per game as also a bolter made absolutely zero sense.
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May 10, 2017 18:45
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quote:Q. I love the new ruling! However, I just realized that if someone rolled hot for the battlecannon that's 18 wounds, Jebus... Well that's VERY interesting
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May 10, 2017 18:48
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May 10, 2017 18:51
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Obviously they didn't say it outright but that sounds like potentially massive bookkeeping of wounds in multiwound units.
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May 10, 2017 18:52
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chutche2 posted:Yeah and twin-linked guns have always given rerolls. Assume nothing. 
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May 10, 2017 18:52
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Artum posted:They were only twin linked bolters because a bolter that could be fired once per game as also a bolter made absolutely zero sense. I mean the name explicitly says they're combi weapons so it seems like a reasonable assumption they would be treated as such. Pawl posted:Well that's VERY interesting They've been pretty clear about this. Different from AoS but probably a good way to go about it in 40k. Otherwise we'd have a single lascannon shot killing 1d6 models which is probably not desirable.
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May 10, 2017 18:52
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Pendent posted:I mean the name explicitly says they're combi weapons so it seems like a reasonable assumption they would be treated as such.
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May 10, 2017 18:54
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All the weapon changes are cool. Combi is going to cost more than specialist weapons tho, so while a cool change in practice people will probably take them much less often than they do now. Also the explosive rules (aka template replacements) are pretty lame. Not only are you rolling to hit, but you are also rolling random hits. Those battle cannon stats are junk. They really should have made them D6 + X hits to make them a bit more reliable. How you're hitting less models less often than before and with no chance it will scatter and cause some hilarity. Still mad about templates. Hamshot posted:As promised, a picture of my dude. Lemmie tell you, those little hanging things at the bottom of his wings? Those break off all the drat time. I'm also never tired of your posts and am glad we have you to give detailed pictures of models from 3rd party companies
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May 10, 2017 18:55
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chutche2 posted:Yeah and twin-linked guns have always given rerolls. Assume nothing.  Pawl posted:Well that's VERY interesting
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May 10, 2017 18:55
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Yes, you passive aggressive rear end. I can read. What we're saying is that the twin linking was just an abstraction before and now that the rules for combi weapons support it it will probably be treated as an actual combi weapon. Then again, it's all guessing at this point.
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May 10, 2017 18:56
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Crazy Ferret posted:Glad to see my Leman Russ Sponsons are finally a thing again. They always look naked without them. I think sponsons in general might be a thing now. I look forward to trying out a dakka Predator, though sadly those sponson Heavy Bolters aren't twin. I always thought the Predator's Heavy Bolter sponsons looked badass though.
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May 10, 2017 18:56
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Soft confirmation that Combi-bolters are Rapid Fire 2 and also tac terminator buffs.
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May 10, 2017 18:57
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Safety Factor posted:
Wounds spilling over would really only make sense for Tyranids... 
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May 10, 2017 18:57
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Pendent posted:Yes, you passive aggressive rear end. I can read. What we're saying is that the twin linking was just an abstraction before and now that the rules for combi weapons support it it will probably be treated as an actual combi weapon. Then again, it's all guessing at this point. Your pedantic opinion didn't warrant anything greater.
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May 10, 2017 18:59
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Hey can you point out where it says Combi-Bolters are twin-linked? Because I haven't seen that anywhere in any preview for 8th yet. It could very well turn out that a Combi-Bolter gets either Rapid Fire 1 normally, or Rapid Fire 2 when firing Combi at -1 to hit.
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May 10, 2017 19:01
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Strobe posted:Hey can you point out where it says Combi-Bolters are twin-linked? Because I haven't seen that anywhere in any preview for 8th yet. It could very well turn out that a Combi-Bolter gets either Rapid Fire 1 normally, or Rapid Fire 2 when firing Combi at -1 to hit. raverrn posted:Soft confirmation that Combi-bolters are Rapid Fire 2 and also tac terminator buffs.
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May 10, 2017 19:03
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Also I'm very glad that Heavy Bolters are still just 1 wound each or they would completely wipe Terminators off of the face of the game wounding on 3s, reducing the save to 3s, and then killing one per unsaved wound.
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May 10, 2017 19:03
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Strobe posted:Hey can you point out where it says Combi-Bolters are twin-linked? Because I haven't seen that anywhere in any preview for 8th yet. It could very well turn out that a Combi-Bolter gets either Rapid Fire 1 normally, or Rapid Fire 2 when firing Combi at -1 to hit.
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May 10, 2017 19:05
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Pendent posted:Yes, you passive aggressive rear end. I can read. What we're saying is that the twin linking was just an abstraction before and now that the rules for combi weapons support it it will probably be treated as an actual combi weapon. Then again, it's all guessing at this point. My thinking is any weapon that is clearly paired is now just a twinned weapon that has a profile with twice the shooty of a regular version. Things that had twin-linked but weren't a clearly paired set of weapons will probably just lose twin-linked and either get nothing or just get a new reroll rule that isn't called twin-linked because GW. They're buffing paired weapons and squatting twin-linked, if that makes sense.
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May 10, 2017 19:05
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