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To be completely fair, having Tanner Glass on that ice to protect a 1-goal lead in the waning minutes of a playoff game is alarming. Doing it three times in a series with the same result is about as close as you can get to a legitimate fireable offense
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May 10, 2017 18:45
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https://streamable.com/c22jw this is everything
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May 10, 2017 18:47
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a false posted:i've been saying this for the entire playoffs: i think vigneault is a good coach but i also think that his time with the rangers is over. i think every coach has a limited lifespan at the helm of any given team and alain vigneault has reached his with the rangers as he has become unable to make correct personnel decisions, his judgment clouded by his history with individual players. i've also said that i'm not sure that there's any coach who doesn't have this problem with a team eventually, which is the reason you bring in a new coach who can look at a team with fresh eyes and decide who his best players are in a relatively objective fashion. The problem is there are problems throughout the blue line. Everyone was up in arms when Staal and Holden were out for goals against, and folks were up in arms over Smith as well. McDonagh, Skjei, and Girardi are not Karlsson. He can't keep them on the ice forever. And everyone hates Girardi anyway. 100% agreed on the glass stuff.
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May 10, 2017 18:52
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corn on the cop posted:https://streamable.com/c22jw glorious
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May 10, 2017 18:52
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a false posted:i've been saying this for the entire playoffs: i think vigneault is a good coach but i also think that his time with the rangers is over. i think every coach has a limited lifespan at the helm of any given team and alain vigneault has reached his with the rangers as he has become unable to make correct personnel decisions, his judgment clouded by his history with individual players. i've also said that i'm not sure that there's any coach who doesn't have this problem with a team eventually, which is the reason you bring in a new coach who can look at a team with fresh eyes and decide who his best players are in a relatively objective fashion. it seems to be in vogue now to hire old coaches you won cups/had past success with so mike keenan, come on down!
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May 10, 2017 19:05
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I think people especially Vancouver fans miss the point of why people are complaining about AV. Just because your team went and hired some lovely coaches doesn't mean AV is without fault. I'd rather he magically learn to fix his mistakes but I feel comfortable saying some of his decisions probably cost the Rangers that series. It's an issue. It needs to be addressed one way or another.
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May 10, 2017 19:19
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The Rangers need to buy out Girardi and hope Staal can be traded or something. That guy they got from Minnesota-Duluth is the real deal and Skjei should be getting way more minutes. That's my opinion.
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May 10, 2017 19:24
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Jamwad Hilder posted:The Rangers need to buy out Girardi and hope Staal can be traded or something. That guy they got from Minnesota-Duluth is the real deal and Skjei should be getting way more minutes. That's my opinion.  They also signed that Russian defenseman (Bereglazov) who's been very good in the KHL
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May 10, 2017 19:30
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Change for the sake of change is a stupid idea. If you get rid of AV, who do you replace him with? Even if you find a coach who won't make the same mistakes you're going to be hard pressed to find someone who is, overall, any where as near as good a coach as Vigneault. Focusing solely on the flaws is a horrendous way to make decisions like this. Sure, he makes some bad decisions at times. Every coach does. You seem to be forgetting the very simple fact that the Rangers' success over the last few years is due in a large part to his strategies. You really think another coach on the market is going to make the Rangers a better team? Seriously, what coach on the market today is a better choice? Sutter? Keenan? Marc Crawford?
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May 10, 2017 19:37
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I'd  at Keenan having another go around in NY.
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May 10, 2017 19:39
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Every team does worse with a lead than while trailing, it's certainly not an easy thing to change. And it goes beyond who you're giving shifts to, the exact same set of players perform worse with the lead.Levitate posted:I think people especially Vancouver fans miss the point of why people are complaining about AV. Just because your team went and hired some lovely coaches doesn't mean AV is without fault. I'd rather he magically learn to fix his mistakes but I feel comfortable saying some of his decisions probably cost the Rangers that series. It's an issue. It needs to be addressed one way or another.
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May 10, 2017 19:41
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Levitate posted:I think people especially Vancouver fans miss the point of why people are complaining about AV. Just because your team went and hired some lovely coaches doesn't mean AV is without fault. I'd rather he magically learn to fix his mistakes but I feel comfortable saying some of his decisions probably cost the Rangers that series. It's an issue. It needs to be addressed one way or another. He's not flawless, no one is saying he is, but when you fire a coach you have to ask "who will replace him and are they an improvement?" If the answer is 'no' then it's probably not worth firing them unless you're just looking for a shakeup. There aren't exactly a ton of great coaching candidates out there right now, so I don't see the sense in firing AV.
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May 10, 2017 19:43
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if you fire AV he is instantly the best available coach on the market by a long shot e: honestly, the problem here seems to be "AV plays bad players more than good ones" so... the rags GM should do something about the bad players then?
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May 10, 2017 19:44
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Levitate posted:I think people especially Vancouver fans miss the point of why people are complaining about AV. Just because your team went and hired some lovely coaches doesn't mean AV is without fault. I'd rather he magically learn to fix his mistakes but I feel comfortable saying some of his decisions probably cost the Rangers that series. It's an issue. It needs to be addressed one way or another. It also seems like some of the Canucks fan have forgotten how terrible he was in the last year and a bit.
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May 10, 2017 19:48
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ImplicitAssembler posted:It also seems like some of the Canucks fan have forgotten how terrible he was in the last year and a bit. would that be the season where he coached them to a 1st place finish in the Northwest and the President's trophy or the slightly shortened season when he coached them to a 1st place finish in the Northwest and 8th overall in the league?
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May 10, 2017 19:55
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JawKnee posted:if you fire AV he is instantly the best available coach on the market by a long shot If the Senators had been eliminated, would people seriously be calling for Boucher to be fired because he gave all that ice time to Ceci and Phaneuf? I wouldn't think so.
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May 10, 2017 19:56
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grack posted:Seriously, what coach on the market today is a better choice? Sutter? Keenan? Marc Crawford? yeah i'd take sutter.
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May 10, 2017 19:57
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Actually yeah how has Sutter not been hired somewhere yet? E: or do coaching hires largely wait until after the playoffs?
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May 10, 2017 19:58
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ImplicitAssembler posted:It also seems like some of the Canucks fan have forgotten how terrible he was in the last year and a bit. he's the best coach we've had in a while, and all the ones since have been trash - I'm well aware of your opinion on this, and it's garbage DJExile posted:Actually yeah how has Sutter not been hired somewhere yet? I think Sutter's on the record somewhere as saying that he doesn't go out looking for a job but waits for teams to come to him
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May 10, 2017 20:07
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I'm not even saying fire AV at this point but the way Canucks fans seem to be programmed to respond to any complaints about AV with "well who are you going to replace him with god you're so stupid see all his faults are things every coach does quit bitching about this amazing coach" would be funny if it wasn't annoying. He's a good coach but he has hosed up pretty bad in some ways in the past couple of years and could probably be argued that he was part of the reason Staal was given a big contract and Stralman was let go. I wish he'd fix some of his obvious flaws instead of being so loving stubborn about it.
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May 10, 2017 20:21
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corn on the cop posted:https://streamable.com/c22jw it should be at least twice as long, but it's very good nonetheless
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May 10, 2017 20:25
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Levitate posted:and could probably be argued that he was part of the reason Staal was given a big contract and Stralman was let go Oh? How so?
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May 10, 2017 20:26
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Levitate posted:He's a good coach but he has hosed up pretty bad in some ways in the past couple of years and could probably be argued that he was part of the reason Staal was given a big contract and Stralman was let go. I wish he'd fix some of his obvious flaws instead of being so loving stubborn about it. This is the dumbest thing you've said so far and that's saying a lot.
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May 10, 2017 20:30
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grack posted:This is the dumbest thing you've said so far and that's saying a lot. you sure are worked up about people having the gall to suggest that alain vigneault has made significant mistakes as coach of the rangers
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May 10, 2017 20:31
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JawKnee posted:Oh? How so? Call it bullshit or not but the Rangers have always talked about how the coach and GM get together to evaluate the roster and make decisions about it. AV obviously likes Staal and Girardi and the Rangers let Stralman when he was obviously their second best defenseman Basically, I think AV is kinda bad at evaluating defensemen and he was happy with Girardi and Staal but wanted to ditch Stralman in an attempt to upgrade their scoring from the blueline instead of letting Girardi walk (or trading him at the 2014 deadline as I recall was a rumored possibility) or trading Staal instead. Just my opinion. I think Sather also liked those guys a lot (especially Girardi) and so yeah maybe AV doesn't factor into it that much but I personally think it's clear he likes those guys and relies upon them to the detriment of the team
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May 10, 2017 20:32
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a false posted:you sure are worked up about people having the gall to suggest that alain vigneault has made significant mistakes as coach of the rangers No loving poo poo. I haven't seen Grack make a single post in these threads that isn't being a gigantic rear end in a top hat to someone
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May 10, 2017 20:33
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is it really that outlandish to imagine that a coach has influence on a team's personnel decisions, or do you actually believe that all decisions about signing players happen strictly in a vacuum containing the general manager, player, and player's agent? do you think tanner glass is brought to the new york rangers (on a 3 year deal, no less) if vigneault is not coach?
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May 10, 2017 20:33
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DJExile posted:Actually yeah how has Sutter not been hired somewhere yet? It's too early. Some GMs will probably fall and coaches will follow.
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May 10, 2017 20:37
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I think after the playoffs, but before the draft/free agency is where we start to see GMs and coaches fired.
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May 10, 2017 20:39
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Levitate posted:Call it bullshit or not but the Rangers have always talked about how the coach and GM get together to evaluate the roster and make decisions about it. AV obviously likes Staal and Girardi and the Rangers let Stralman when he was obviously their second best defenseman a false posted:is it really that outlandish to imagine that a coach has influence on a team's personnel decisions, or do you actually believe that all decisions about signing players happen strictly in a vacuum containing the general manager, player, and player's agent? do you think tanner glass is brought to the new york rangers (on a 3 year deal, no less) if vigneault is not coach? The Glass thing is probably AV's influence, and I'll take your word on the Stralman thing - but here's the thing about both of those: those are ultimately moves the GM wears, not the coach. Your GM should not be beholden to the coach, no matter how much input the coach has into the process - if you have, and continue to have bad players on the roster, its your GMs job to fix it.
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May 10, 2017 20:39
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Yeah I don't doubt coaches have at least some say with the rest of the front office but those decisions are ultimately Gorton's, not AV's.
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May 10, 2017 20:40
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JawKnee posted:The Glass thing is probably AV's influence, and I'll take your word on the Stralman thing - but here's the thing about both of those: those are ultimately moves the GM wears, not the coach. Your GM should not be beholden to the coach, no matter how much input the coach has into the process - if you have, and continue to have bad players on the roster, its your GMs job to fix it. well, the gm who made those moves is no longer the gm, but the coach that influenced them is still here, so,
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May 10, 2017 20:41
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a false posted:you sure are worked up about people having the gall to suggest that alain vigneault has made significant mistakes as coach of the rangers I've never once said this?
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May 10, 2017 20:41
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so why isn't Gorton fixing the issue if Sather was the problem?
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May 10, 2017 20:41
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DJExile posted:Yeah I don't doubt coaches have at least some say with the rest of the front office but those decisions are ultimately Gorton's, not AV's. they are not. sather was gm at the time.
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May 10, 2017 20:42
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a false posted:they are not. sather was gm at the time. oh whoops, that's my bad then
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May 10, 2017 20:42
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Levitate posted:No loving poo poo. I haven't seen Grack make a single post in these threads that isn't being a gigantic rear end in a top hat to someone Feel free to check my post history.
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May 10, 2017 20:42
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grack posted:Feel free to check my post history. Asking if Harriet has murdered me does not count as rear end in a top hat behavior. It is checking on my safety.
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May 10, 2017 20:45
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JawKnee posted:so why isn't Gorton fixing the issue if Sather was the problem? fixing the issue where sather gave bad and poorly-aging defensemen long and lucrative contracts that it would be unfeasible to buy out and the other one where better players who we could have had for the same money or less were allowed to walk? how do you suggest he fixes those issues, with a time machine? e: don't get me wrong i have problems with some things gorton has done (the eric staal deadline trade last year, for example) but this is a poorly thought out question a false fucked around with this message at 20:48 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 20:45
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Well I mean, I'm not a GM of a team - but it seems like other GMs have found ways to get out from under lousy contracts? That's part of their job? The point I'm trying to make here, is that there doesn't seem to be (yet) an indication that Gorton considers them lousy - the way that you, and others of RAS at least do (I don't really interact with rags fans anywhere else). I would think that would be a more realistic solution to that problem than firing the coach though.
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May 10, 2017 20:47
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