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Westworld and The Handmaiden Tale are basic slavery stories, handwaved and scifi'd to have white people being the slaves. Just got sat down by my white friend to watch the first episode. She is so hyped by this series. It seemed like a fine show. Brutal and visceral. First time I heard her actually condemn this type of slavery and torture out loud. Its nice that the show is generating these discussions period. But I have to hide my rolling eyes at the newfound enthusiasm. Same friend clammed up when 12 Years was discussed. She'd stick to how visceral it felt, or how the subject matter was brutal without participating in discussing the historical accuracy or moral questions about enslavement. It is a good thing, and I will never forget that 2017 is the year I was saw a white slave movie.
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May 8, 2017 19:13
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KirbyKhan posted:a white slave movie. There was a really badly written movie with that title in 1985 (also titled "Cannibal Holocaust 2" in some markets). Right up there with SA-famous Troll 2 for the writing, IIRC; except it was a "true" (actually totally made up bullshit) story about a white woman that was enslaved in South America. Also apparently a really, really low budget movie in 2016, but I don't have random trivial knowledge about that one.
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May 8, 2017 19:27
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It's a tough spot for the creative staff. White supremacy and the resulting exclusivity absolutely is a part of the source material, and for specific reasons. On the other hand, locking actors and actresses out from a piece of prestige award bait based on race perpetuates an ongoing problem in Hollywood. If the characters are written in a racially aware manner (and I've not seen much of the show yet), then I'll extend good faith to the writers. If it's a "palette shift" of what would have been an identical white characters, then it reeks of production meeting a quota-for better and worse. Unrelated to Huluchat: https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfHansNoel/status/861592250719096833 I don't know what the answer to this is, but it's certainly something anyone clamoring for bipartisanship needs to reckon with. Explicitly.
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May 8, 2017 19:37
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Paracaidas posted:It's a tough spot for the creative staff. White supremacy and the resulting exclusivity absolutely is a part of the source material, and for specific reasons. On the other hand, locking actors and actresses out from a piece of prestige award bait based on race perpetuates an ongoing problem in Hollywood. Hahaha one thing all republicans can agree on are how much they hate black people.
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May 8, 2017 19:51
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Paracaidas posted:It's a tough spot for the creative staff. White supremacy and the resulting exclusivity absolutely is a part of the source material, and for specific reasons. On the other hand, locking actors and actresses out from a piece of prestige award bait based on race perpetuates an ongoing problem in Hollywood. christians: equally discriminated as trans people. ell oh ell. THIS IS AN AFETITS ONLY BAHTROOM XTIAN SCUM.
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May 8, 2017 19:55
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KirbyKhan posted:The Handmaiden Tale I thought the villains in that were specifically White Men™? I've heard the TV show doesn't really deal with the racial aspect that was more obvious in the book.
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May 8, 2017 19:59
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KirbyKhan posted:Westworld and The Handmaiden Tale are basic slavery stories, handwaved and scifi'd to have white people being the slaves. Just got sat down by my white friend to watch the first episode. She is so hyped by this series. You really don't have to use some sci-fi wand to make a world where women are chattel; just go back in history a bit across any number of cultures and civilizations.
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May 8, 2017 20:00
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there wolf posted:You really don't have to use some sci-fi wand to make a world where women are chattel; just go back in history a bit across any number of cultures and civilizations. That was my "eyeroll" issue with my friend. Because the show was fictional and divorced from reality it allowed her to feel more comfortable to open up to speak about the themes of people as property, subjugation methods, and ritualistic rape. It's nice to finally get her feelings on it, but I just wanna scream "yooooooo, you are so late to the party. Took you having a map drawn using your favorite brand of crayons before you could get here.". Edit: that article is p dope.
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May 8, 2017 20:09
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KirbyKhan posted:That was my "eyeroll" issue with my friend. Because the show was fictional and divorced from reality it allowed her to feel more comfortable to open up to speak about the themes of people as property, subjugation methods, and ritualistic rape. It's nice to finally get her feelings on it, but I just wanna scream "yooooooo, you are so late to the party. Took you having a map drawn using your favorite brand of crayons before you could get here.". Time to start buying her Bitch Planet.
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May 8, 2017 21:04
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Going to drop this here. http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/05/opinions/empathy-gap-in-viewing-black-poverty-and-pain-tanzina-vega/index.html An article about the empathy gap between poor people of color and poor Whites.
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May 9, 2017 03:55
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Larry Wilmore's getting a podcast
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May 9, 2017 20:01
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there wolf posted:You really don't have to use some sci-fi wand to make a world where women are chattel; just go back in history a bit across any number of cultures and civilizations. Who says you need to go back in history?
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May 9, 2017 20:11
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Honestly that's not true either, just look at the FLDS.
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May 9, 2017 21:43
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Margaret Atwood gave precious little to go on with the white supremacist aspect of Gilead. Basically "oh yeah and all the black people are in camps now" and nothing else. It was the same thing we saw in V for Vendetta--the destruction of POC was a detail meant to underline how bad the bad guys were rather than a serious exploration of the effects on the actual people being persecuted. Doing it justice would require the creation of a whole parallel storyline, and my guess is that if the showrunners thought of it at all (and they probably didn't), they decided it would be too much work.
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May 10, 2017 04:54
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Larry Wilmore's getting a podcast "“Even as a kid, casting pods was something I could only dream of, and now it’s here,” Wilmore said in today’s announcement." Larry Wilmore is not without his faults, but I am still looking forward to this.
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May 10, 2017 04:56
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ATP5G1 posted:Margaret Atwood gave precious little to go on with the white supremacist aspect of Gilead. Basically "oh yeah and all the black people are in camps now" and nothing else. It was the same thing we saw in V for Vendetta--the destruction of POC was a detail meant to underline how bad the bad guys were rather than a serious exploration of the effects on the actual people being persecuted. Doing it justice would require the creation of a whole parallel storyline, and my guess is that if the showrunners thought of it at all (and they probably didn't), they decided it would be too much work. I was kind of grumpy about the lack of black people in The Man in the High Castle, and refused to watch it.
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May 10, 2017 05:07
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blackguy32 posted:I was kind of grumpy about the lack of black people in The Man in the High Castle, and refused to watch it. Wasn't the hero in the end of that a black man? It's been a long time since I read it.
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May 10, 2017 06:42
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there wolf posted:Wasn't the hero in the end of that a black man? It's been a long time since I read it. I don't know. I never made it past the first episode. I watched Mr. Robot instead.
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May 10, 2017 07:08
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blackguy32 posted:I was kind of grumpy about the lack of black people in The Man in the High Castle, and refused to watch it. I think people commented about this before, but your statement is 100% wrong. There are lots of black characters who show up in the series, including a semi-main one-- I think he has a bigger part on the second season, but I haven't watched that yet. It's just that they are several episodes in when they show up, which has a plot point attached. I can't quite blame you for not sitting through stuff on hope, though.
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May 10, 2017 15:16
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rkajdi posted:I think people commented about this before, but your statement is 100% wrong. There are lots of black characters who show up in the series, including a semi-main one-- I think he has a bigger part on the second season, but I haven't watched that yet. It's just that they are several episodes in when they show up, which has a plot point attached. I can't quite blame you for not sitting through stuff on hope, though. I think I asked about it somewhere else before and someone just told me that, "oh, they were all exterminated by the Nazis before the show started." Then I thought to myself, "How convenient." Maybe I will give the show a watch if I have free time.
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May 10, 2017 16:23
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ATP5G1 posted:Margaret Atwood gave precious little to go on with the white supremacist aspect of Gilead. Basically "oh yeah and all the black people are in camps now" and nothing else. It was the same thing we saw in V for Vendetta--the destruction of POC was a detail meant to underline how bad the bad guys were rather than a serious exploration of the effects on the actual people being persecuted. Doing it justice would require the creation of a whole parallel storyline, and my guess is that if the showrunners thought of it at all (and they probably didn't), they decided it would be too much work. it's been a long minute since i've read the novel, but that is how I recall it. it was a minor theme at best. i'd rather see more actors of color up on the screen bringing performance than have this be 100% faithful.
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May 10, 2017 16:55
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Paracaidas posted:It's a tough spot for the creative staff. White supremacy and the resulting exclusivity absolutely is a part of the source material, and for specific reasons. On the other hand, locking actors and actresses out from a piece of prestige award bait based on race perpetuates an ongoing problem in Hollywood. "Black people" has the same amount of characters as "Trans people", yet they chose to label it "Blacks"?
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May 10, 2017 20:15
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Get the gently caress out you crazy stalker.
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May 10, 2017 20:18
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Get the gently caress out you crazy stalker. Can you not?
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May 10, 2017 20:53
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Megaspel posted:"Black people" has the same amount of characters as "Trans people", yet they chose to label it "Blacks"? If you want to have an honest discussion, what do you actually object to about this. It's pretty normal specifically in demographic research to contract group labels this way. I can only imagine they selected "Trans people" because "transgenders" isn't a real word and there was no established term in the field, whereas "blacks" and "latinos", for better or for worse, have a long history of usage in demographic study.
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May 10, 2017 21:26
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cis autodrag posted:If you want to have an honest discussion, what do you actually object to about this. It's pretty normal specifically in demographic research to contract group labels this way. I can only imagine they selected "Trans people" because "transgenders" isn't a real word and there was no established term in the field, whereas "blacks" and "latinos", for better or for worse, have a long history of usage in demographic study. Maybe I'm overreacting, it just really stood out to me, isn't it normalizing dehumanizing language? I'm absolutely not at all familiar with demographic research, but I don't know that something being used for a long time is great justification. This is definitely not a hill I want to die on or anything, but it jumped out at me enough to want to see what people thought.
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May 10, 2017 21:33
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Megaspel posted:Maybe I'm overreacting, it just really stood out to me, isn't it normalizing dehumanizing language? I'm absolutely not at all familiar with demographic research, but I don't know that something being used for a long time is great justification. I mean, yes, but also academic writing tends to have really strict styles that they have to hold to and it's slow to change. It's not as big a deal because the intention is clearly not malicious, vs some loon ranting about "the blacks".
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May 10, 2017 21:39
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cis autodrag posted:I mean, yes, but also academic writing tends to have really strict styles that they have to hold to and it's slow to change. It's not as big a deal because the intention is clearly not malicious, vs some loon ranting about "the blacks". Fair do's, to be honest I still feel embarrassed for once pointing out that an old textbook refers to humanity as "man", then seeing a clarification printed in the next issue. I guess I'll try to focus less on non-malicious aesthetic issues and more on issues which are more clearly malicious. Cheers.
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May 10, 2017 21:51
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https://twitter.com/GenePark/status/862383109165240320 Apparently the school community protested her speaking. Cross posting from GIP CE. Super dope.
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May 10, 2017 23:03
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KirbyKhan posted:https://twitter.com/GenePark/status/862383109165240320 This is so satisfying. Also of course there's someone warning him about "inciting people"
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May 10, 2017 23:28
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Get the gently caress out you crazy stalker. When you call people out like this, can you drop a link or something so we have context? You don't have too, but it would be nice, and could enable discussion! Otherwise, it seems a bit mean spirited to call someone a crazy stalker.
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May 10, 2017 23:36
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Turtlicious posted:When you call people out like this, can you drop a link or something so we have context? It's not very interesting, he's just very, extremely, thousand-word-PM mad that I thought a recent sitcom episode was flawed.
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May 11, 2017 00:01
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KirbyKhan posted:https://twitter.com/GenePark/status/862383109165240320 I liked the part where the dean warns them that they wont be able to walk if they keep it up, and there's a noticeable pause, and then they boo even louder. The kids are alright.
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May 11, 2017 00:17
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:It's not very interesting, he's just very, extremely, thousand-word-PM mad that I thought a recent sitcom episode was flawed. This is true, I'm very mad about TV shows and we both agreed to drop it over PMs so I'd appreciate it if you dropped it and didn't try to spread poo poo about me whenever I post. I want to stay part of this community because I think there's a lot of cool people here, and people can call me out for whatever stupid bullshit I say on their own, we can both stay here even if we disagree on the optimal way to talk about TV shows. That said, I really do not want to derail this thread with dumb TV IV stuff, so I hope this can be the last of it.
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May 11, 2017 00:31
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there wolf posted:I liked the part where the dean warns them that they wont be able to walk if they keep it up, and there's a noticeable pause, and then they boo even louder. The kids are alright. He threatened to mail them their diplomas! God, those kids are so great.
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May 11, 2017 07:16
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blackguy32 posted:I think I asked about it somewhere else before and someone just told me that, "oh, they were all exterminated by the Nazis before the show started." Then I thought to myself, "How convenient." Maybe I will give the show a watch if I have free time. I think they were on the East Coast, but there are black characters in the Neutral Zone between the Japanese and German states. A decent number of them show up in the episodes in that happen there, and a main character goes back West to be a resistance operative for the remainder of the series. But yeah, they went for a lazy out in the pilot, and I wouldn't give anyone poo poo for assuming that would continue on afterwards. I personally liked the first season, but I think I'm in the minority on that at least on SA.
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May 12, 2017 10:50
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blackguy32 posted:I think I asked about it somewhere else before and someone just told me that, "oh, they were all exterminated by the Nazis before the show started." Then I thought to myself, "How convenient." Maybe I will give the show a watch if I have free time. There's a black supporting character in the Resistance but I understand where you're coming from. Though "they were all exterminated" might be a convenient out for not casting more people of color, one of the major points of the show is that the Greater Nazi Reich (everything east of the Rockies) killed every single "undesirable" that didn't make it to the Neutral Zone or the Japanese-controlled Pacific States. There are people of color in the Pacific States portions of the show thankfully. It's mentioned in Season 1 and elaborated upon more in Season 2 that the Nazis and their allied nations are leading straight up genocide campaigns in Africa and the Middle East. They do make a point to show that even white people who aren't sufficiently Aryan enough are denied entry and likely killed. While it's secondary to the main plot, the horrible poo poo that's happened to non-whites and non-Japanese people is remarked upon quite a bit.
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May 12, 2017 12:47
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Vanderdeath posted:There's a black supporting character in the Resistance but I understand where you're coming from. Though "they were all exterminated" might be a convenient out for not casting more people of color, one of the major points of the show is that the Greater Nazi Reich (everything east of the Rockies) killed every single "undesirable" that didn't make it to the Neutral Zone or the Japanese-controlled Pacific States. There are people of color in the Pacific States portions of the show thankfully. Yeah remarked upon, by white people. It's a story about a horrific genocide told by the people least affected by it.
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May 12, 2017 17:10
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...n-aclu-lawsuit/quote:“I am scared all the time that the sheriff’s department will hurt me or family,” Quinnetta Manning said. “I feel unsafe in my own home.” Hopefully this lawsuit has some legs and actually does something to improve the situation for these people.
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May 13, 2017 00:04
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Yeah remarked upon, by white people. It's a story about a horrific genocide told by the people least affected by it. Yeah, don't get me wrong, it's another white as gently caress prestige drama. I was just saying that at least the horrible racist poo poo isn't glossed over like in The Handmaid's Tale.
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May 13, 2017 06:52
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