JesusIsTehCool posted:

Are you even playing the same game as I am? I would say a third of models in 7th have multiple wounds, and they are increasing that in 8th... seriously when is the last time you actually played a game of 40k?


The systemic issues they said they were addressing were the overly complex rules, the difficulty in teaching new players rules, time to play the game, and rampant imbalances between units and factions. Damage may be part of a larger system that addresses balance, but I imagine there were hundreds of ways to address that without adding another stat to all weapons, and I don't see how this addresses anything else. I don't think I remember ever hearing from people in this thread who play 7th or people I play with that what 40k really needed was weapons doing multiple wounds. In fact, this is what D weapons more or less do and I know a lot of people really disliked them. I don't think it's weird to consider if new rules help achieve the goals they set out to achieve.

Texmo posted:

The Weapon Damage stat seems to be a way of making an anti-tank weapon distinct from an anti-horde weapon - which is important now that tanks take wounds in the same manner as infantry. It wasn't necessary before, but it becomes necessary with the absence of the vehicle damage system.

Khisanth Magus posted:

One of the main reasons for the damage stat on weapons is because they changed tanks over to having wounds to deal with the imbalance between MCs and vehicles due to MCs having wounds and vehicles having armor stats, since this left MCs a lot more vulnerable to small arms fire. Now they both will just have wounds, but it would be silly for tanks to die to a small amount of small arms fire, so the number of wounds had to go up, but the current rules had nothing for doing multiple wounds with a single shot, so a way was needed to take down those high wound models effectively.

JesusIsTehCool posted:

Are you even playing the same game as I am? I would say a third of models in 7th have multiple wounds, and they are increasing that in 8th... seriously when is the last time you actually played a game of 40k?

JesusIsTehCool posted:

Couldn't you have just done this with the current strength vs toughness and armor vs AP stats? It appears that everything that is good against monstrous creatures is also good against vehicles, just make anti vehicle and MC guns have high Strength and ap to make them good against the high toughness and good saves? Anti horde weapons could just have a lot of low strength and ap shots right? I am not saying it will be an unfun or bad rule, I just don't think it was really needed to fix any of the problems they said they were trying to fix with 8th, and appears to me to actually to the opposite, makes for more rolls and more looking up numbers.

chutche2 posted:

Which armies? I know MC spam is common, but most non-vehicle units in most armies are single wound models. What books are you looking at that have a third of the units with multiple wounds? It's certainly a thing in some armies, but not most.

Texmo posted:

Consider a dreadnought with it's 8? wounds - not really great if you need to 8 lascannon shots to kill it, but still nice that you need a minimum of two, and probably more like three or four.
'Less rolls' wasn't so much a design goal as 'Less complexity' - and having everything using the same Toughness/Save system is certainly a lot simpler than explaining the vehicle damage system, and also then trying to explain why a Riptide isn't using it.
It seems like a granularization of instant death - high damage weapons will actually do more damage, instead of just having a higher chance to do 1 damage.

JesusIsTehCool posted:

I was counting vehicles since they are models in the game... but I mean things like wolfen, thunderwolf cavalry, skyweavers, wraiths, scarabs, chaos spawn, not to mention the dozens of nid units that have multiple wounds. I pretty much can't think of an army that doesn't have common units that are multi wound and they are clearly expanding that in 8th. The notion that damage will not matter most of the time is just obviously wrong. Also noticed you didn't answer my question about actually playing the game.

chutche2 posted:

They sure are models in the game!

Must have been why I said "it's only ever going to come into play when shooting at vehicles or characters" since I'm saying, you know, it mainly only is going to be used against vehicles and characters since other than MCs those are the main multi wound models out there.

And why should I acknowledge your question? I have played in 7th, but me saying that isn't going to mean anything to you.

S.J. posted:

please don't tell me that's a booster pack

TKIY posted:

You strike me as a person with very strong beliefs about Anime.

Khisanth Magus posted:

I'm really hoping it is for some side game. The idea of gatcha crap in wargaming is kind of scary.

chutche2 posted:

They sure are models in the game!

Must have been why I said "it's only ever going to come into play when shooting at vehicles or characters" since I'm saying, you know, it mainly only is going to be used against vehicles and characters since other than MCs those are the main multi wound models out there.

And why should I acknowledge your question? I have played in 7th, but me saying that isn't going to mean anything to you.

Lovely Joe Stalin posted:

People are surmising that it is some sort of blind buy equivalent to sticker collecting. If that's the case it can gently caress off.

Edit: Those sprues don't look right for GW, I'm guessing a licensed third party production for the Japanese market.

chutche2 posted:

Man Playing With Tiny Plastic Spacedolls Accuses Other Of Liking Anime

Lovely Joe Stalin posted:

People are surmising that it is some sort of blind buy equivalent to sticker collecting. If that's the case it can gently caress off.

Edit: Those sprues don't look right for GW, I'm guessing a licensed third party production for the Japanese market.

chutche2 posted:

Isn't that literally Clix?

Lovely Joe Stalin posted:

People are surmising that it is some sort of blind buy equivalent to sticker collecting. If that's the case it can gently caress off.

Edit: Those sprues don't look right for GW, I'm guessing a licensed third party production for the Japanese market.

chutche2 posted:

So hey, how's the 40k scene in Virginia? I'm moving to Richmond next year, I know the NOVA is pretty big and I think one of the badcast guys is in virginia. What stores have regular game nights in richmond?

chutche2 posted:

So hey, how's the 40k scene in Virginia? I'm moving to Richmond next year, I know the NOVA is pretty big and I think one of the badcast guys is in virginia. What stores have regular game nights in richmond?

Zaphod42 posted:

Zaphod42 posted:

MonsterEnvy posted:

Cause they are not exploding and a Template would not have been used anyway.

titty_baby_ posted:

Just admit it lol

chutche2 posted:

Actually yeah, you're right.

ijyt posted:

There is a template vacuum now. Read the melta lore.

MonsterEnvy posted:

Melta's never used Templates.

MonsterEnvy posted:

Melta's never used Templates.

Yeast posted:

ahem





Just because yours didn't.

Zaphod42 posted:

Lovely Joe Stalin posted:

Here's a cupola pictures I haven't seen before.

SteelMentor posted:

Small guess, that stuff's designed to go together like Gundams, i.e. snap-fit with no glue, lower grade of plastic than Citadel's stuff.

I might try and see if I can import some when they come out, assuming 'Hams don't drive up the prices to ridiculousness.

quote:

In Warhammer 40,000, a unit’s rules can be found on its datasheet.

Currently, a lot of these rules will reference universal special rules, and you might need to do some digging to find a specific rule in the main rulebook, or just be really good at memorising a lot of rules.

Not for the new Warhammer 40,000 – universal special rules are out, and all the rules for a unit will appear on its datasheet – no more lugging a demi-library of books to every game night to ensure you have all the rules you need. Even the rules for weapons will be on there for the most common weapons the unit is likely to be equipped with. The best way to show you is with an example. We’ll be using the Rubric Marines Datasheet, as requested by Marco Tonino on our Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page.



Ok, lots going on in there, so let’s look at a few elements.

At the very top right, we have the Troop icon, which represents the unit’s battlefield role. There are actually two ways to use Rubric Marines, either as an Elite choice in a Chaos Space Marines force (maybe belonging to a sorcerer pledged to the Black Legion or a renegade warlord), or if your detachment is pure Thousand Sons, they can be Troops, much like today.

Next to that we have Power Level, which we’ll look at in detail tomorrow, but for the moment, suffice to say that it is a quick and easy mechanism for balancing in less competitive narrative or open play games.

Then we have the unit profile. You can see the Rubric Marine is, perhaps unsurprisingly, quite similar to a Tactical Marine we’ve seen already. These guys are a little slower than their non-dust brothers, whereas the Sorcerer leading the unit is faster and a more deadly close combat fighter with his extra attack.

Wargear options are listed next, along with stats for their weapons. Most units have all their weapons on their datasheet, though some with a lot of options (Space Marine Tactical Squads, for example) will list only the most common.

Next we have Abilities. Universal special rules are out, so any time a unit acts differently to what its stats might indicate, the rules for how will be in here. The bulk of these rules will be written in full, but there might occasionally be an army-wide, or very common rule for a given faction that isn’t, though these will always be in that same publication with page references, to make finding it easy.

After the special abilities and psychic powers are the keywords. There are two types of these.

The first, faction keywords, are what you use when selecting your detachments for a Battle-forged army, and often trigger in-game effects regarding what units gain benefits from certain Characters or can travel in specific Transports.

Other keywords are not involved in selecting an army, and usually have more general battlefield effects – for example, perhaps only Infantry can gain the full benefit of certain types of cover.

So, there are Datasheets and some juicy new Thousand Sons rules to speculate about.

We’ll be back tomorrow to look at points and power levels.