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Ainsley McTree posted:I don't remember the specific details of that scene too much, but I remember myself agreeing with the points Dijkstra was making, in terms of being for the greater good, however I still took Roche's side because you don't turn your back on a bro, bro. So in that sense, it emotionally was an extremely well done scene for me, but it could be that I was just giving Dijkstra's plan more credit than it deserved, I don't remember exactly what it was at this point. He started off making okay points but then explicitly said he was going to take over the whole north and unite it under his "enlightened rule." I actually would have been willing to at least hear him out but then when he decided to kill Roche (instead of just letting him walk away emptyhanded or whatever) I felt the same as you - gently caress that.
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May 10, 2017 20:00
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Bold Robot posted:He started off making okay points but then explicitly said he was going to take over the whole north and unite it under his "enlightened rule." I actually would have been willing to at least hear him out but then when he decided to kill Roche (instead of just letting him walk away emptyhanded or whatever) I felt the same as you - gently caress that. Now it's coming back to me--yeah his plan seemed flawed, but superior to the status quo and I would've gone along with it, but not if it meant killing Roche (and Ves, IIRC). I'll burn this whole loving continent down before I let you kill my buddy
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May 10, 2017 20:05
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Bold Robot posted:Yeah that choice was really weird. At first I thought Dijkstra was making some interesting points about Roche not having struck a very good deal with Nilfgaard, giving Emhyr too much in exchange for some vague promises of autonomy for Temeria. But then Dijkstra was like "lol gently caress everyone I'm going to rule Redania and take over the world" and he totally lost me, along with, I'm guessing, the vast majority of players. Siding with Dijkstra is the only way to get the ending in which Emhyr is assassinated. Dijkstra becomes the new ruler of Redania and without Nilfgaard to oppose him, more or less rules the Northern Realms. However, it's implied his rule is far more similar to Emhyr's than expected, so the more things change... I don't think the game does a good job of giving you incentive to work for that ending, but it's my favorite one along the "Who rules?" axis.
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May 10, 2017 20:07
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Bicyclops posted:Siding with Dijkstra is the only way to get the ending in which Emhyr is assassinated. Dijkstra becomes the new ruler of Redania and without Nilfgaard to oppose him, more or less rules the Northern Realms. However, it's implied his rule is far more similar to Emhyr's than expected, so the more things change... Is Emhyr actually a bad ruler? Obviously he's a warmonger with all of the awful poo poo that that entails, but putting that aside, I didn't get the impression that Emhyr was a bad dude in the same way that say, Radovid is, or that Nilfgaard is actually a bad place to live. He seemed like a relatively reasonable guy, if kind of a dick. I never played the first two games, though. e: I guess he did hang a ton of guys for very vague plotting against him in the ending that I got. Bold Robot fucked around with this message at 20:15 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 20:13
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Bold Robot posted:Is Emhyr actually a bad ruler? Obviously he's a warmonger with all of the awful poo poo that that entails, but putting that aside, I didn't get the impression that Emhyr was a bad dude in the same way that say, Radovid is, or that Nilfgaard is actually a bad place to live. He seemed like a relatively reasonable guy, if kind of a dick. I never played the first two games, though. I don't remember anything specific that Emhyr does, but Nilfgaard shares too much aesthetic similarity with the Nazis for me to feel good about anything they do, I just assume they're evil.
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May 10, 2017 20:16
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Bicyclops posted:Siding with Dijkstra is the only way to get the ending in which Emhyr is assassinated. Pretty sure that happens if Radovid wins as well. It is the fact that Redania holds off Nilfgaard until the latter is forced to withdraw for political reasons under the leadership of either Radovid or Dijkstra that leads to Emhyr's assasination.
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May 10, 2017 20:22
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Nilfgaardians are fine if you are okay with authoritarian rule with severe austerity measures and harsh punishment if you step out of line. That said, they are an empire first and an occupying force second. Nilfgaardian protectorates like Touissant and Temeria are self governed, so long as they play by the Empire's rules in international affairs.
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May 10, 2017 20:38
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Every ruler is an rear end, when looked at from the perspective of a lot of people are going to be living awful existences because of the way things are, especially during war. But I was always under the impression that Emhyr wasn't so bad as long as you weren't too low or too high in his society, Foltest was the "best" we ever saw and he was a condescending piece of poo poo who could give two fucks for the downtrodden or the peasants. And then there's Radovid. That piece of work. Yeah, that chess scene is very unnerving.
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May 10, 2017 20:39
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Calanthe and Meve are actually the best. Iron fisted Lioness of Cintra and the Warrior Queen of Rivia. Foltest is only good by virtue of his contemporaries being jackals. Tankred might be alright but he's too far north to have much influence apart from bank rolling his enemies to fight each other while he sits in the far north.
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May 10, 2017 20:45
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Bicyclops posted:Siding with Dijkstra is the only way to get the ending in which Emhyr is assassinated. Dijkstra becomes the new ruler of Redania and without Nilfgaard to oppose him, more or less rules the Northern Realms. However, it's implied his rule is far more similar to Emhyr's than expected, so the more things change... Dijkstra ushers in a minor industrial revolution in Redania and brings the country kicking and screaming into the modern age. It's actually not that bad of an ending really. A setup of Cerys, Djikstra, and Voorhis would probably lead to a relatively stable situation and overall benefit of the subject peoples.
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May 10, 2017 20:49
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Foltest is too horny to be evil. Best king for the Witcher universe.
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May 10, 2017 20:49
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Arcsquad12 posted:Nilfgaardians are fine if you are okay with authoritarian rule with severe austerity measures and harsh punishment if you step out of line. And slavery.
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May 10, 2017 20:49
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I'm pretty sure either in the story somewhere or in the ending it was said that Emhyr is actually a kind of weak ruler who overcompensates with ruthlessness and gets couped the second they're not at war anymore. Also, I chose Dijkstra solely because I found his character entertaining. If I hadn't read the books (he was one of my favorite characters) or had been roleplaying in any way, I probably would have picked Roche. Oh also, Roche hardly does anything in the game anyway and IIRC Ves won't even have a conversation with you.
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May 10, 2017 21:03
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It would have been a harder choice if siding with Dijkstra didn't also mean immediately murdering your friends.
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May 10, 2017 21:26
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It helps not playing the previous games, because I didn't really like Roche either, his agreement to join the battle notwithstanding. I guess if I had played Witcher 2, I'd probably care a lot more about him.
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May 10, 2017 21:41
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He's kind of a dick in 2, blackmails Geralt into tracking down the king killer even though he very well knows he's innocent.
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May 10, 2017 21:44
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Re: Djikstra Choices aren't meant to be equivalent in this game, though. Some choices seem like a better deal or q more likely thing based on the narrative because they are. The choices are there to give you options and not force your hand. See also: Triss and Yenn not being equivalent choices, at all.
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May 10, 2017 22:16
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Never played a Witcher game before 3 and I'm starting on 2 now. Hopefully it's just as good (lol)
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May 10, 2017 22:30
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Fuzz posted:Re: Djikstra If they're not meant to be equivalent, that makes the original question even more poignant. Why are those choices even in the game then? Since you brought up Triss/Yen: I simply do not understand why they wrote two games where it seems like Triss is Geralt's true love and only touch on Yen in flashbacks, and then suddenly they go all-out with Yen content. They could have at least had just as much story with Triss for the people who only played the games. I'm not complaining about them finally including Yen cause she is so clearly the best, but it's just a weird choice in writing.
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May 10, 2017 22:45
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GrossMurpel posted:If they're not meant to be equivalent, that makes the original question even more poignant. Why are those choices even in the game then? It adds to replay value, especially if it's the first Witcher game you play and you don't read spoilers. I made some sub-optimal choices and now I'm anticipating my next run even more.
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May 10, 2017 22:52
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Finally doing a replay of this game, about a full year on after beating it my first time around. This game is such a rich experience, and I love how meaningful my blind choices were--I chose Triss over Yennefer because I had no history with Yen and liked Triss' personality more. It created this wonderful family dynamic, like I was chartering Geralt and Ciri through a kind of complicated divorce, which added this wrinkle to their relationship that was totally of my doing. That's to say nothing of all the myriad incredible experiences and encounters I had without knowing what my outcomes would be; some good, some bad, but I always felt the choice I made was meaningful and I had what I needed to make that choice, so I didn't feel a need to save scum (very often) to "game" an outcome to my liking. So for my replay I wanna do a 100 percent run, or close enough as sanity has it, and see what other choices I can make. I'll probably choose Yen this time around, see how that dynamic happens, and I know a few quests I basically ended "early" that I'll try to see through. Something about a succubus... Either way, I'm really loving jazzed to sink into this game again. I don't know really how to articulate how or why everything the Witcher 3 does works, only that it's so loving engaging from the word go, and it's such an amazing testament to what adventure games can be.
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May 11, 2017 01:20
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Fuzz posted:Re: Djikstra I'm not sure I agree with this. Why offer a choice if one way is clearly inferior narratively? To clarify, the results or the meat of the choice do not need to be palatable, but there should be some narrative reason for the alternative choice. In a game of excellent narrative choices, it stands out to me as a low point.
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May 11, 2017 02:55
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Joey Freshwater posted:Never played a Witcher game before 3 and I'm starting on 2 now. It is ok, will definately fill the lore gaps you may of had
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May 11, 2017 08:51
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I think they were trying to make most choices equivalent, just didn't always succeed. Like Yen/Triss, Bloody Baron or Ciri's two good endings, both have some merrit as shown by how much these get discussed. Then you have Djisstrika or skellinge's choice between Cerys and what's his name, where one is clearly supperior.
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May 11, 2017 09:56
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It would have probably been better if the consequences for choosing Dijkstra came later so you'd pick a side on the merits of the political arguments alone. For example Roche + friends would make a failed assassination attempt and end up in jail/on death row. It would basically be the same outcome but would prevent Dijkstra from going all comic book villain out of his character and Geralt from being given crass paragon/renegade options to choose from.
Palpek fucked around with this message at 10:31 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 10:28
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Willfrey posted:It is ok, will definately fill the lore gaps you may of had I made it through the tutorial and started playing Witcher 3 again.
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May 11, 2017 14:08
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Joey Freshwater posted:Never played a Witcher game before 3 and I'm starting on 2 now. me too! On 360. I've heard it's definitely more linear and more segmented. Which is fine. Going to beat 2 then do Blood and Wine then start 3 from scratch and do it all over again.
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May 11, 2017 14:56
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Why's no one playing 1 first?
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May 11, 2017 15:39
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GrossMurpel posted:Why's no one playing 1 first? Because it is a bastard to run, has extremely dated controls, and 90% of players quit by the time they reach the swamp.
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May 11, 2017 15:49
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Thinking about that swamp makes me want to install the game just so I can uninstall it again
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May 11, 2017 15:50
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What's the deal with the swamp? Just curious.
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May 11, 2017 15:53
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It's bad. That's essentially it. It's a boring slog that you have to backtrack into and out of a whole bunch for a lot of quests.
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May 11, 2017 15:54
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It's really not that bad, you can just run past all the drowners from NPC to NPC  Makes for a fun moment as well in W2 when you try to find the Kayran nest or whatever with Triss and run across a pack of drowners for the first time in that game. "Hah drowners, that's cute" *cut to Geralt getting his poo poo wrecked*
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May 11, 2017 16:05
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A classic green/grey swamp is a really boring setting that by its nature prevents good level design from happening but because it's basically a desert with fog it's not a memory hog and is realtively easy to create so many RPG games go for it for 'variety'. I like how swamps work in TW3 where they're seamlessly built into the world map and don't overstay their welcome but TW1 just dumped you into a big enclosed level looking like this:  for hours and hours on end so it's not strange that a lot of people lost interest.
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May 11, 2017 16:20
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The worst thing about that swamp were the invisible walls, had to go all the way around everything each time.
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May 11, 2017 16:24
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People in the Unpopular VG opinions thread keep saying W2>W3 and I can't fathom any metric that you could use to arrive there. People talk about W2 story being more grounded but it really isn't, it's still about dragons and witches and elves (as fantasy Swiss people) and the Foltest quest chain is so loving boooooooring and the Lizard People city is cool but they do nothing with it. I beat it on whatever it's hardest setting was and the only times I died after the first hour was in the Ghost army section where you are a regular soldier with no powers.
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May 11, 2017 16:26
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Swiss? It's fantasy Dithmarschen.
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May 11, 2017 16:34
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Palpek posted:A classic green/grey swamp is a really boring setting that by its nature prevents good level design from happening but because it's basically a desert with fog it's not a memory hog and is realtively easy to create so many RPG games go for it for 'variety'. For hours? What the gently caress You go in there like 3 times and maybe talk to the Dryads and villagers a few times. I'll shut up about it since I'm clearly in the minority though, maybe I'm just more tolerant of bad world design. Bust Rodd posted:People in the Unpopular VG opinions thread keep saying W2>W3 and I can't fathom any metric that you could use to arrive there. Well if those people don't like Ciri then already about 90% of the story in W3 will fall flat. Maybe they don't like the open world either. Also you gotta admit that the story kinda loses steam after Kaer Morhen. GrossMurpel fucked around with this message at 16:39 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 16:34
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LoL yeah I just fished KM and stalled out grinding for Witcher Gear. I am waiting for the DLC to get VERY cheap before I jump back in. My backlog is Beat Prey 2 more times Beat Neir 4 more times Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 17:00 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 16:41
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Witcher 3 is obviously better than W2, by a lot. A lot of little things made W2 kind of a beating to play compares to W3. I couldn't bother to finish W2 and W3 is like crack to me.
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