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Baloogan posted:lol pricing argument #910395028403090 but they're right, base game without discount is stupidly expensive.
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May 11, 2017 11:11
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cool new Metroid game posted:but they're right, base game without discount is stupidly expensive. The arguments for and against the price of CMANO have been pretty much the same since the initial release. I don't have a comment on the _price_, but I certainly have a (biased, no doubt) opinion on its _value_ : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2174956&postcount=14 ...and since I posted that back in '14, the gamut of "things" one can do with Command has grown by leaps and bounds, overall quality (by any metric you deem most critical - UX, bugs or performance) has skyrocketed, the number of community works has multiplied, truckloads of feedback have been incorporated in fundamental parts of the platform, and a vibrant ecosystem has flourished around it. (Command was awarded in HOW-17 as Matrix/Slitherine's wargame with the currently most active community. For a game released in _2013_ this is no small thing). So yes, Command is expensive. But IMHO, for what it offers and enables, it is also amazingly cheap. Dimitris fucked around with this message at 12:21 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 12:16
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Will the aircraft damage model be "turned on" by default, or will scenarios have to be rewritten to match the latest version?
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May 11, 2017 12:20
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nah like most grog games it's overpriced and matrix have a history of being dumbasses over everything from having sales on games being bad to steam being bad but then they turned out to be good ideas because who knew? I have CMANO and it's good but I got it from steam during a sale
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May 11, 2017 12:21
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I too bought CMANO on Steam and will never play it.
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May 11, 2017 12:24
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I never would have bought CMANO at all if I didn't see people like Baloogan and Yooper and HerpicleOmicron showing it off, but then they did, and I ended up buying it full price. Without getting into pricing arguments, I think we can all agree that Matrix is really goddamn bad at marketing. They should be reppin' all kinds of LPs and videos to demonstrate how accessible it is.
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May 11, 2017 12:28
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Yeah I watched Baloogan play on YouTube and thought CMANO looked cool enough to pick up. I bought it half off during a steam sale. I usually just make my own dumb "what if" scenarios and see how things would play out. I spend more time loving around trying to find out how many of the lowest quality boats I can find it'd take to destroy a US DDG or Cruiser or trying to see if an Amphib could fend off an attack without support than actually playing through anyone elses stuff thoughl.
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May 11, 2017 12:57
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Nostalgia4Ass posted:Yeah I watched Baloogan play on YouTube and thought CMANO looked cool enough to pick up. I bought it half off during a steam sale. I usually just make my own dumb "what if" scenarios and see how things would play out. I spend more time loving around trying to find out how many of the lowest quality boats I can find it'd take to destroy a US DDG or Cruiser or trying to see if an Amphib could fend off an attack without support than actually playing through anyone elses stuff thoughl. I mostly do this too! Sometimes I'll load up a scenario just to have stuff going on in the 'background' and edit it from there.
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May 11, 2017 15:54
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gradenko_2000 posted:Will the aircraft damage model be "turned on" by default, or will scenarios have to be rewritten to match the latest version? You know the 'unliminited ammo + realistic gun mechanics' dialog box? We've hella expanded that so aircraft damage is a realism setting. A/C damage has the possibility of screwing up all 400 or whatever scenarios made for command so yeah its turned off by default but only requires 1 checkbox (and maybe an update of the scenario DB for things like armor values etc) to enable.
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May 11, 2017 15:56
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the president had this to say about steam pricing 
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May 11, 2017 15:59
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CMNAO needs an Ace Combat Mod.
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May 11, 2017 16:11
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Baloogan posted:You know the 'unliminited ammo + realistic gun mechanics' dialog box? We've hella expanded that so aircraft damage is a realism setting. On that note, I can never quite put together what "realistic gun mechanics" is supposed to be for. I mean, I understand what it means in that having it checked means that there are more factors influencing gun accuracy, but why is that something that you'd need to turn on and off? Like, is it proper to turn it off for Vietnam-and-earlier scenarios so that guns are more accurate because you'll be using guns a lot more? Alchenar posted:CMNAO needs an Ace Combat Mod. Also this.
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May 11, 2017 16:16
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gradenko_2000 posted:On that note, I can never quite put together what "realistic gun mechanics" is supposed to be for. If realistic gun mechanics is enabled illumination radars are used for directing the ship's guns, if its off the ship's guns get 'borg' targetting.
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May 11, 2017 16:24
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TOAW4 beta test 
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May 11, 2017 17:59
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I bought CMANO to finance Baloogan's drunkposting, played it for a bit, and realized not only did I have no clue what was happening but that I didn't really want to go through the effort of finding out
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May 11, 2017 18:05
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any thoughts on how to make command easier to learn / more approachable?
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May 11, 2017 18:12
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StashAugustine posted:I bought CMANO to finance Baloogan's drunkposting, played it for a bit, and realized not only did I have no clue what was happening but that I didn't really want to go through the effort of finding out It's really not that complicated, it just looks it. Play the tutorials and trust the mission system more than yourself outside of very specific instances.
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May 11, 2017 18:15
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Alot of the complexity (and fun!) of Command is looking at the squiggles on the map and coming up with a mental picture of what is going on. This group of dots is a chinese carrier group, this group of dots is some likely civilian ships doing civiliany things.
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May 11, 2017 18:18
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:It's really not that complicated, it just looks it. Play the tutorials and trust the mission system more than yourself outside of very specific instances. Yeah this. First I had a bunch of fun doing lots of manual control, but then I started tinkering with the mission creator and that's even cooler because it does stuff like the off axis attacks for you.
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May 11, 2017 18:20
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Baloogan posted:any thoughts on how to make command easier to learn / more approachable? If there's any way to make the tutorial less live/random and more along the lines of modern step-by-step tutorials that'd help. As is you get a VERY far removed text dump box that halfway tells you what to do and then the scenario may fail anyway due to random poo poo. I realize your engine/UI probably doesn't support what would be needed to do this, but it'd go a long way towards making it an learning process.
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May 11, 2017 18:24
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Baloogan posted:any thoughts on how to make command easier to learn / more approachable? More scenarios of varied type and complexity that have good pre-planned missions as examples. I think this was one of the best things for me to learn; I could sit down and see how a well-planned set of patrols is set up and mimic it. As things went right or wrong in my imitation I learned a lot about why they're set up a certain way.
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May 11, 2017 18:27
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glynnenstein posted:More scenarios of varied type and complexity that have good pre-planned missions as examples. I think this was one of the best things for me to learn; I could sit down and see how a well-planned set of patrols is set up and mimic it. As things went right or wrong in my imitation I learned a lot about why they're set up a certain way. I agree! Learn by observing. The other method that's given me the most help was watching DrZaius' Lets Plays of things like Yankee Team, Under African Skies, etc. They're long, detailed, and informative, AND he's not REALLY that good so it feels closer to something I could pull off. In place of that steady narration, more "introductory" large-scale missions with more frequent event or suggestive pop-up notifications along the way could be helpful. Sort of a guided tour of how to manage larger operations? I do like the short-and-simple scenarios, but compared to something like Under African Skies it feels like an entirely different game. I guess what I'm thinking would be lower-difficulty but higher-complexity. I've also always secretly wished for a way to order the scenarios by their stated difficulty/complexity. --- Unrelated, but speaking of scenarios: how does the big-rear end community campaign Northern Fury? Is it comparable to Northern Inferno? I like the idea of a continuing narrative, versus detached one-off scenarios.
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May 11, 2017 18:45
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glynnenstein posted:More scenarios of varied type and complexity that have good pre-planned missions as examples. I think this was one of the best things for me to learn; I could sit down and see how a well-planned set of patrols is set up and mimic it. As things went right or wrong in my imitation I learned a lot about why they're set up a certain way. I learned just playing the "Brother Against Brother" scenario over and over. I had one air mission to plan and one submarine to find. It was pretty chill, ran quick, yet by crossing the Andes it made the air mission planning critical. After watching my poo poo fly over the hill and die I learned my lesson. Some of the scenarios suffer from scale creep, where you don't even know what the hell is supposed to be happening. That and tutorials should probably stick to one time period. It can be tough on a non-aviation nerd to swap from 1960's, to 1990's, then 1980's and have completely different/new weapons systems to learn. It's tricky enough to parse what's going on, even more so when you fly a mission and realize you have some retarded bomb setup that will only fire at soviet ice cream trucks. I know it sounds lame, but just having a tutorial with pre-set missions and use the message pop-up to just show what's happening. Actually that's a good idea, I might do that...
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May 11, 2017 18:49
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Yooper, are you building the Strike Commander missions for your LP yourself? I meant to ask in the thread, but here we are in this thread, so...
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May 11, 2017 18:52
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I'm one those people who bought CMANO on sale thinking I would really dig it, went through all the tutorials felt like I understood it and then was completely wrecked the first scenario I tried for reasons I didn't understand (all my aircraft where just getting shot down by shittier aircraft) and I gave up. I think the biggest barrier is that I just don't know how to plan full modern warfare, I don't know load outs and flight makeups that I should be using. I don't know what all the missile variants do, I have a tentative grasp on terrain masking and when to turn on/off my radars. But when you combine all those theories at once it's easy to get overwhelmed and lose a bunch of units without knowing what you did wrong. I don't have a good suggestion for how to fix that. I think more scenarios target towards people who aren't real life air force commanders would help. Try to familiarize people with basic concepts of modern air/naval warfare instead of assuming that people know the correct loadout and tactic for a SEAD mission.
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May 11, 2017 18:53
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Popete posted:I'm one those people who bought CMANO on sale thinking I would really dig it, went through all the tutorials felt like I understood it and then was completely wrecked the first scenario I tried for reasons I didn't understand (all my aircraft where just getting shot down by shittier aircraft) and I gave up. Maybe some tutorializing techniques from coding might be in order? Rather than a whole mission, give a mission where everything's planned but the SEAD, and put detail into that. Then one for the strike tasking. Then one for CAP management, and so on down the line.
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May 11, 2017 18:56
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xthetenth posted:Maybe some tutorializing techniques from coding might be in order? Rather than a whole mission, give a mission where everything's planned but the SEAD, and put detail into that. Then one for the strike tasking. Then one for CAP management, and so on down the line. The adult military megadork version of the "connect the dots" pages where 80% of the picture is a painted gorgeous cartoon and you're supposed to draw the lovely stick-figure bunny in the middle. EDIT: I think it's a great idea, by the way.
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May 11, 2017 18:58
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Check out new feature: Cargo! http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4494
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May 11, 2017 19:00
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Squiggle posted:Yooper, are you building the Strike Commander missions for your LP yourself? I meant to ask in the thread, but here we are in this thread, so... Yup, it's all from scratch. The Import/Export makes it easy for infrastructure, and once I build the theater I take the saved game at the end of the scenario and then use it for the start of the next one. Saves me some time, and I've got a few scripts to swap base or unit ownership. Though usually I just delete a lot of poo poo. I still get wrecked on a regular occasion in CMANO. I'm halfway through Northern Inferno and sometimes I'll end up with not a single kill as my poo poo dies to patrol boats or some Soviet plane I never heard of. Some scenarios tend to be more forgiving than others, but the "Complexity" and "Difficulty" rating seems to be pretty dependent on the author. One mans challenging is anothers easy. I take the community scenarios with a grain of salt and prefer Warfaresims stuff. At least it tends to be more uniform. But in all reality, modern warfare is hard. It's unforgiving, and a mistake usually means instant death, right now. Sometimes you don't even make a mistake and the technology kills you. (That's you MAD!  )It's been really tough in my LP as adding just 2 more fighters can tip the balance. Then instead of losing one fighter you lose all of them. It's crazy how fast poo poo can go south. Multiply that by a combat system that's unfamiliar and it can be daunting. I like the challenge, but I understand the frustration.
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May 11, 2017 19:01
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Baloogan posted:any thoughts on how to make command easier to learn / more approachable? Remove all the "bingo" and "winchester" and whatever poo poo and just use natural language that civilians and other non-chickenhawks use. I really like CMANO but drat. Edit: I know statistics like this don't exist, but I'd actually be really interested to see what the number of CMANO owners/active players looks like when you compare people with no military experience to those who have served in some capacity.
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May 11, 2017 19:31
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Drone posted:Remove all the "bingo" and "winchester" and whatever poo poo and just use natural language that civilians and other non-chickenhawks use. Bingo and winchester are natural language literally designed to make conveying information quickly and easily WINCHESTER = OUT OF AMMO BINGO = OUT OF FUEL if you can't pick up the slang you're in the wrong hobby
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May 11, 2017 20:31
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Phi230 posted:Bingo and winchester are natural language literally designed to make conveying information quickly and easily Yes, but I am not communicating those concepts via a radio, where it can often be difficult to parse natural language. That is their original intent. I'm reading those things on a computer screen, and as a functional human being I am perfectly capable of determining the difference between being out of ammo and out of fuel by seeing the words "OUT OF AMMO" and "OUT OF FUEL". Like if you're typing in the URL for Something Awful dot com on your computer, are you literally telling Cortana to open up whiskeywhiskeywhiskey dot sierraoscarmikeechotangohotelindianovembergolfalphawhiskeyfoxtrotuniformlima dot charlieoscarmike or are you typing these things out like a human being. Drone fucked around with this message at 20:41 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 20:38
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Phi230 posted:Bingo and winchester are natural language literally designed to make conveying information quickly and easily Lol if you think the reason grog games are unpopular is that they don't do steam deals enough and not the whole culture epitomized by this post
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May 11, 2017 20:38
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Alikchi posted:Lol if you think the reason grog games are unpopular is that they don't do steam deals enough and not the whole culture epitomized by this post learning 2 words is hard for my smooth brain
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May 11, 2017 20:39
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Very popular wargame series Wargame: Airland Battle and Wargame: Red Dragon both use Bingo and Winchester
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May 11, 2017 20:40
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  we do have words  we could have more I think
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May 11, 2017 20:40
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Alikchi posted:Lol if you think the reason grog games are unpopular is that they don't do steam deals enough and not the whole culture epitomized by this post Oh yay someone else gets it!
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May 11, 2017 20:42
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but yeah, things like this  could very easily be better explained
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May 11, 2017 20:42
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I like WINCHESTER and JOKER because I know what those words mean and they help enhance the Ace Combat feel (Mobius One, shack on the target!), but I agree that a glossary or handy translation popup would be very helpful to other players. Alternately, a "translation switch" that allows you to switch between WINCHESTER <-> NO AMMO could also work, similar to how in Wargame you have the option to use pictoral icons or NATO symbols for your counters.
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May 11, 2017 20:45
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 22:50 |
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Also speaking to the 'culture' side of things, part of what makes Command Command is the military lingo. Just like you would expect sci-fi lingo in a game like Stellaris.
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May 11, 2017 20:46
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