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namesake posted:And when is your 18th birthday coming up? noice
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May 11, 2017 17:58
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learnincurve posted:You either have a unfairly low opinion of adults or don't spend much time with teenagers. Considering how much damage old cunts do all the loving time, this argument is loving absurd and insulting.
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May 11, 2017 17:58
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I do believe we found the 17 year old. I'm not saying the olds should have a vote, anyone who's ever worked in technical support or has anything to do with the NHS, knows there should be an upper age limit. It's a completely seperate issue.
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May 11, 2017 18:01
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learnincurve posted:Where are a lot of the polling booths? You think political parties wouldn't offer to hire mini-busses to take kids out of schools to go vote? I'm not sure you understand me, the ward boundaries are different to constituency ones and the number of 16/17 year old voters would not be 1,000 per council seat.
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May 11, 2017 18:01
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learnincurve posted:I do believe we found the 17 year old. Do you have any arguments that arent based on personal anecdotes?
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May 11, 2017 18:02
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Ah. Fair enough, it would only be the ones that had 100 or so votes in it. One of our wards had the Tories win by 23 votes.
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May 11, 2017 18:03
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learnincurve posted:Ah. Fair enough, it would only be the ones that had 100 or so votes in it. One of our wards had the Tories win by 23 votes. Probably even less. Nationwide turnout was 26% and not every council was up for election so we'd be talking a handful of our theoretical 1.5m idiot voter teens per ward. Also a tiny majority may also be due to a low local population or turnout which is where my quick n dirty model falls down a bit. Party Boat fucked around with this message at 18:11 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 18:08
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Oberleutnant posted:In a hard technical sense you're either a capitalist or a worker. You either sell your labour to survive, or you don't. That doesn't leave space for a middle class, and a frequent argument is that the conception of a "middle class" is a malicious effort to promote divisions amongst the poorer and better off workers. I always argue class like this - the middle class is a meaningless concept and you either get paid for your labour or profit from the labour of others. It's a hard thing to get people on board with sometimes though - most people seem to see class as synonymous with wealth. There's a HUGE divide between the really struggling (like those in retail or service) and the well-off (admin/management/professions) and it's very hard to convince either that they have the same class interests even though they do. I suppose that's where you have to introduce the idea of privilege - it's possible to be a privileged proletarian (I wonder if it's possible to be a non-privileged capitalist haha). Also, I've always wondered where small-scale artisans and artists fit into this. They don't exploit others but they do own the means of production and rely on selling the products at market. I guess there's no problem as there's no pilfering of surplus value, but simultaneously where would they fit into a socialist state without private commerce? While some would clearly transition to public institutions or otherwise stop doing what they do, what if that is a passion? I don't want my lovely utopia to force a painter who previous relied on patronage/commerce to stop doing what they love and move into less creative state applications. Maybe a system of state patronage for the arts? Or assuming all other needs are met I suppose that painter wouldn't need to be further supported beyond the generous UBI or equivalent in place. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 18:17 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 18:14
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Benjamin Arthur posted:Do you have any arguments that arent based on personal anecdotes? Yes my lamb, I am or was before I quit the NHS in a huff, a psychologist. I'm not going to do your research for you, google Neuroimaging and the difference between adolescent and adult brains.
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May 11, 2017 18:14
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learnincurve posted:Yes my lamb, I am or was before I quit the NHS in a huff, a psychologist. 
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May 11, 2017 18:16
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Ah, a raise the voting age to 25 argument.
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May 11, 2017 18:19
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sassassin posted:If everyone's stupid how come all you geniuses are so poor? What? This thread has a disproportionate number of doctors and lawyers. At least it used to. They've probably been replaced by IT janitors who still aren't "poor".
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May 11, 2017 18:22
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*adjusts callipers* We should also consider the voting rights of those whose brains are, ah, atypical...
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May 11, 2017 18:27
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Lol are people really that liberal in this thread that they want literal school children to vote? There is no discernible difference between the maturity of a 16 year old and a 15 year old, so why don't we let 15 year olds vote as well? But that also goes for 14 year olds so it's a vote for them too, but hey not much difference between the 13 year olds and 14 year olds so off to the polls you go second years. Not first years though, God they are like only just out of primary so what would they know about life and poo poo?
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May 11, 2017 18:29
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learnincurve posted:Yes my lamb, I am or was before I quit the NHS in a huff, a psychologist. I suppose it follows that people with mental illnesses also shouldn't be allowed to vote then.
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May 11, 2017 18:29
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learnincurve posted:Lol are people really that liberal in this thread that they want literal school children to vote? It's good enough for practically every other measure of independence / being an adult.
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May 11, 2017 18:31
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learnincurve posted:There is no discernible difference between the maturity of a 16 year old and a 15 year old
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May 11, 2017 18:31
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learnincurve posted:Lol are people really that liberal in this thread that they want literal school children to vote? Wow, an honest to God vagueness/arbitrariness argument outside a metaphysics lecture.
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May 11, 2017 18:32
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learnincurve posted:Lol are people really that liberal in this thread that they want literal school children to vote? You literally have zero argument besides trying to infantise 16-17 year olds as much as possible, so much so you're now pulling out a horseshit slippery slope argument. Benjamin Arthur fucked around with this message at 18:35 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 18:33
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If you're old enough to gently caress you're old enough to vote. If you're too old to gently caress you're too old to vote.
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May 11, 2017 18:33
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I think we should ban Tories from voting.
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May 11, 2017 18:34
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OwlFancier posted:If you're old enough to gently caress you're old enough to vote. And on 8 June most of the country will vote to be hosed.
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May 11, 2017 18:35
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Benjamin Arthur posted:You literally have zero argument besides trying to infantise 16-17 year olds as much as possible, so much so you're now pulling out a horsehit slippery slope argument. if people want to gently caress and marry their cars they should be allowed to imo. just so long as it isn't in public
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May 11, 2017 18:35
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I'm not liberal, Tory or Labour. I don't like the way the whole political system is geared towards voting for a party, and not individual candidates, so I vote for whoever the not racist independent candidate is because no one ever mentions the statistics in spoiled ballots.
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May 11, 2017 18:37
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Benjamin Arthur posted:Your entire argument is just generalities tarring all 16-17 year olds with the same brush, while ignoring that most of your criticisms apply to other age groups anyway. Yeah, most people are stupid cunts, age has nothing to do with it. Oh wait... forkboy84 posted:"Live only for today" being a reason excluding people from voting would mean we'd need an upper age limit too, because the old cunts who voted Brexit sure aren't voting for tomorrow, they'll be dead by then. TheRat posted:Considering how much damage old cunts do all the loving time, this argument is loving absurd and insulting. Now I could feel sorry for the fact that all your elder relatives are arseholes that make you think this, or I could tell youse to gently caress right off with this bullshit. I'm old enough that some of you cunts have suggested I and my peers get disenfranchised because you are scared of old people (or scared of what you fear you might become based on your own families?), and yet none of my contemporary friends, nor myself have ever voted Tory in our lives. Hell my dad is in his 80s and has never voted Tory. Must be poo poo only knowing/ being related to arseholes. What's the average age of all those new Glasgow Tory councillors? Gonna be closer to you all than me, but it's only olds that are Tory? sassassin posted:If everyone's stupid how come all you geniuses are so poor? *(more than my entire annual income and yet I don't feel poor and know people much harder off than me.)
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May 11, 2017 18:38
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learnincurve posted:I'm not liberal, Tory or Labour. I don't like the way the whole political system is geared towards voting for a party, and not individual candidates, so I vote for whoever the not racist independent candidate is because no one ever mentions the statistics in spoiled ballots. That's the most student liberal sentence I've ever read.
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May 11, 2017 18:39
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learnincurve posted:I'm not liberal, Tory or Labour. I don't like the way the whole political system is geared towards voting for a party, and not individual candidates, so I vote for whoever the not racist independent candidate is because no one ever mentions the statistics in spoiled ballots. Most 16-17 year olds wouldnt waste their vote as much as you do.
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May 11, 2017 18:41
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EmptyVessel posted:Yeah, most people are stupid cunts, age has nothing to do with it. sorry m8 your generation on the whole suck even if there are some good people and its better we take their vote away than allow them to gently caress us
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May 11, 2017 18:41
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"We can't let 16-17 year olds vote, they wouldn't know the correct way to draw a cock and balls on the ballot paper."
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May 11, 2017 18:43
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Benjamin Arthur posted:Most 16-17 year olds wont waste their vote as much as you do. Only if they vote for the party you want them to vote for kiddo, the Tory party will be wanting them to vote for them and they run the department of education...
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May 11, 2017 18:45
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EmptyVessel posted:Now I could feel sorry for the fact that all your elder relatives are arseholes that make you think this, or I could tell youse to gently caress right off with this bullshit. I'm old enough that some of you cunts have suggested I and my peers get disenfranchised because you are scared of old people (or scared of what you fear you might become based on your own families?), and yet none of my contemporary friends, nor myself have ever voted Tory in our lives. Hell my dad is in his 80s and has never voted Tory. Must be poo poo only knowing/ being related to arseholes.
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May 11, 2017 18:45
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learnincurve posted:Only if they vote for the party you want them to vote for kiddo, the Tory party will be wanting them to vote for them and they run the department of education... Stop with the patronising tone, you've already outed yourself as a moron.
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May 11, 2017 18:47
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Jose posted:sorry m8 your generation on the whole suck even if there are some good people and its better we take their vote away than allow them to gently caress us Yet weirdly when suffering from Thatcher we were able to blame the Tory voters based on how they voted not their age. Tigey posted:to be fair, old people are utterly terrified of young people and constantly support/call for measures that either directly or indirectly gently caress young people over, so a few young-uns punching back isn't that bad Really? Terrified? lmao
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May 11, 2017 18:51
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Make the voting age 16 and teach school children politics for a year. They will then probably be more well informed than most of the general public.
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May 11, 2017 18:52
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EmptyVessel posted:Yet weirdly when suffering from Thatcher we were able to blame the Tory voters based on how they voted not their age. Old people have consistently voted to gently caress the poor lately. They are also consistently voting to take away rights and safety nets they themselves enjoyed when they were younger. Very few things are less charming than old cunts making an effort to make sure the next generation are worse off. I also find it really loving precious that you seem to be personally offended by young people calling old people cunts, when old cunts have been complaining about young people since time immemorial.
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May 11, 2017 18:56
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TheRat posted:Old people have consistently voted to gently caress the poor lately. They are also consistently voting to take away rights and safety nets they themselves enjoyed when they were younger. Very few things are less charming than old cunts making an effort to make sure the next generation are worse off. I also find it really loving precious that you seem to be personally offended by young people calling old people cunts, when old cunts have been complaining about young people since time immemorial. It's true, all of my old relatives that aren't dead are nice, and vote labour. But apparently the country is full of miserable old fuckers who apparently hate everyone else and keep voting to gently caress us all over. It's kind of hard to argue against that just with personal anecdotes.
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May 11, 2017 19:00
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TheRat posted:Old people have consistently voted to gently caress the poor lately. They are also consistently voting to take away rights and safety nets they themselves enjoyed when they were younger. Very few things are less charming than old cunts making an effort to make sure the next generation are worse off. TheRat posted:I also find it really loving precious that you seem to be personally offended by young people calling old people cunts, when old cunts have been complaining about young people since time immemorial.
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May 11, 2017 19:01
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Benjamin Arthur posted:Stop with the patronising tone, you've already outed yourself as a moron.  I have qualifications and 15 years of experience in this field. I know there is a huge difference mentally between 18 year olds and 16 year olds, should 16 year olds be allowed to have children? not really. But can you stop them having sex? No. But as the risk of life or health threatening injury owing to pregnancy or abortion is relatively low at 16, all making it illegal would do is land a load of teenagers in prison or put them on lists. That does not mean that because we do this one wrong thing we should do this other wrong thing as well, it's a completely seperate issue.
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May 11, 2017 19:03
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People who have to live in whatever passes for our future should have a say in how we get there, I reckon the goons who think teenagers are morons are still bitter because they had no mates when they were in school and are reminded of this everytime they see a young person smiling or having fun.
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May 11, 2017 19:03
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Like it's kind of damning:code:Statistical true fact: Olds vote Con and Kip, Youngs vote Labour and Green. Olds vote to gently caress Youngs. Like your not poo poo: poo poo ratios basically invert over the course of the age groups. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:09 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 19:06
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