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clockworkjoe posted:the Youtuber DLC pack is being sold to help with a lawsuit: http://kotaku.com/payday-2-makers-donate-dlc-profits-to-help-big-youtuber-1795126319
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May 11, 2017 17:28
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clockworkjoe posted:the Youtuber DLC pack is being sold to help with a lawsuit: http://kotaku.com/payday-2-makers-donate-dlc-profits-to-help-big-youtuber-1795126319
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May 11, 2017 17:40
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wolrah posted:When they show the non-VR cross play the VR player is picking the bank back door and then you see him move inside in a way that to me resembles gamepad-style movement. I can't think of any way to make teleportation work that wouldn't be completely game breaking, not to say that Overkill is immune from breaking the game from time to time. Yeah, I hope they actually implemented real locomotion, but if they did why did they cut away and effectively block a trailer about a big VR update from having any kind of view of how locomotion works? I wasn't left with a good feeling that they will somehow buck the trend of mediocre VR mods for games that weren't designed for VR that only stick to the easiest-to-implement VR features: teleportation only for locomotion and only one handed weapons (be it a normally 2h weapon or not).
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May 11, 2017 18:02
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Why does almir really likes h3h3
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May 11, 2017 18:48
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What's that I hear about fixing bullet sponge poo poo enemies? Is that really happening? Because if so that's good, that poo poo is why my buddies stopped playing this.
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May 11, 2017 19:04
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is the discord gone, I may have accidentally left it
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May 11, 2017 19:55
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Sperglord Firecock posted:is the discord gone, I may have accidentally left it
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May 11, 2017 20:19
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Traded in for a newer, younger, model. The alimony is hell, though.
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May 11, 2017 20:24
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I wish to upgrade my discord is flabby and saggy without the Eric etebari appreciation station
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May 11, 2017 20:44
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Coolguye posted:SHE GONE BYE BYE
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May 11, 2017 21:30
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So should someone make a new Discord or we going back to mumble or something?
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May 12, 2017 00:20
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We have a new one run by that one guy who writes self insert overkill fanfic or something Ask vox for an invite, set off a roadflare, whatever
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May 12, 2017 01:03
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maswastaken and chairface can also do invites.
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May 12, 2017 01:09
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Just make sure you know the secret handshake.
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May 12, 2017 01:19
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Hey they made the Pistol skills work for the new revolver things!
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May 12, 2017 01:51
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As of today's patch, Sicario is no longer a functional deck. That they changed the descriptions isn't a lie, but the patch notes fail to tell you those descriptions were changed to match a massive nerf to sicario. LBV sicario could get in to a feedback loop, but rather than fix the armor interaction they chopped off an entire 10 dodge from the deck's bonuses. In all contexts, sicario now is missing 10 dodge. It is no longer a viable deck outside, perhaps, difficulties below overkill. It certainly is no longer a viable deck for mayhem or death wish. Suit sicario could max out at 35 dodge standing previous, and now maxes at 25. I imagine the patch notes are designed to purposefully throw people off in to thinking this is what the deck had the whole time. If anyone is interested in my fire crit build, just use rogue.
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May 12, 2017 03:32
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Minor correction. Smoke grenade duration was also reduced by 2 seconds. It now lasts 6 seconds and still takes 30 to recharge.
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May 12, 2017 04:08
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Discendo Vox posted:maswastaken and chairface can also do invites. Should we make a seperate channel for invites?
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May 12, 2017 04:24
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Fuuka Ayase posted:As of today's patch, Sicario is no longer a functional deck. That they changed the descriptions isn't a lie, but the patch notes fail to tell you those descriptions were changed to match a massive nerf to sicario. LBV sicario could get in to a feedback loop, but rather than fix the armor interaction they chopped off an entire 10 dodge from the deck's bonuses. In all contexts, sicario now is missing 10 dodge. It is no longer a viable deck outside, perhaps, difficulties below overkill. It certainly is no longer a viable deck for mayhem or death wish. Suit sicario could max out at 35 dodge standing previous, and now maxes at 25.
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May 12, 2017 07:50
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Tried out Sicario ICTV frenzerker. Frankly it functions much better than suit or LBV now. Though when I say that I mean it functions on par with mid-high tier armor decks. The mounting dodge mechanic, and smoke grenade, play a good part in preserving your lowered HP. Becoming medium-low tier without frenzy backing up the ICTV.
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May 12, 2017 08:13
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I just like that build conceptually Big loving bulldozer man with ninja smoke bombs Imagine explaining that one on police dispatch
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May 12, 2017 09:54
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Game is apparently broken as gently caress after the latest update. Trying to collect side job rewards and placing sentries both cause crashes. No need to post a link, it's all over the Steam forums. Overkill maintains its stellar track record of breaking their own game with updates.
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May 12, 2017 11:38
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Wastrel_ posted:Game is apparently broken as gently caress after the latest update. Trying to collect side job rewards and placing sentries both cause crashes. No need to post a link, it's all over the Steam forums. Thank gently caress, I spent like an hour last night going through my mods to try and figure out which one was causing that. Good to know it's just a general screwup.
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May 12, 2017 13:04
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A variable got renamed. The crashes were referencing the old name.
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May 12, 2017 15:24
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Dodge/Crit/DB works pretty well with Grinder too.
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May 12, 2017 15:59
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UnknownMercenary posted:A variable got renamed. The crashes were referencing the old name. Four and a half years after release and they still miss bush league poo poo like this.
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May 12, 2017 19:49
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Has anyone else tinkered with the steam controller for their shootmans simulator? If not, here's my takeaway:
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May 12, 2017 21:29
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At Fuuka's request: Death Vox Brooklyn 10-10 1. Criminals in the mission are armed with SMGs. Several spawn in the first overlook interior. 2. More snipers spawn during both interior overlook stages, several spawn at once. No overwatch. 3. The first pair of cars that arrive during the first overlook sequence are police cars as usual. The second pair of cars are SWAT vans, with multiple SWAT teams, including a bulldozer. More enemies to take out (protecting Charon) in all of these steps. 3. Overdozer (RPG) at door. 4. A SWAT Turret chopper arrives during second building step, focusing only on players. It does not suppress Charon, and will leave once the elevator objective appears. 5. Both cages are covered with tarps and contain no ammo, but 4 bags weapons each, consisting of a total of 4 pistols, 2 assault rifles and 2 battle rifles. 6. Enemies that spawn in the hall immediately after the elevator include an Overdozer(minigun). Moderately long interaction is needed to open elevator hatch, elevator door at bottom of shaft (needs crowbar), and door to street. These are used to pre-spawn enemies to heavily populate the street. This includes Winters. 6. Charon is more heavily injured, functioning like a slightly faster Matt (but can fire his gun at enemies that don't get too close). 7. Drilling a SWAT Van is necessary to clear a route for van. The van you don't need to drill will spawn a turret as you approach the area. Dick move time. 8. As the van arrives...a police car slams into it, taking it out. Bain panics and tells you to retreat back the way you came. The other SWAT van spawns a turret at this time. 9. Bile arrives at the roof of the first building in 6 minutes. Once he arrives, a 4 minute escape timer begins. Charon must be escorted back during this period. 10. A ladder somewhere in the street must be used to let you get back atop the elevator, and a separate zipline becomes available for loot. Only one zipline is available for heisters. 11. In the second building, the ladder must be placed to get to the roof, then used again to cross over to the first building. Snipers will abound throughout this process. 12. If it wasn't destroyed earlier, the Helicopter turret will return when the first player sets foot on a building roof. A pair of cloakers are also hiding near the escape location. Achievements: Concierge Caper: Complete the heist on Death Vox. I want room service!: Complete the heist having secured all loot. (there is a ninth bag of cash in the back of the crashed escape van, which requires the crowbar to open) New York Minute: Be at the escape zone when it appears. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 06:16 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 06:02
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You had me at "naming an achievement after a Max Payne mode". Step 9 is an ultra dick move though. in your magical alternate universe where Death Vox is a mode, about where is the damage/ health tuning resting at? On par/ deadlier than DW?
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May 13, 2017 09:33
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I've suddenly realized I don't like Fuuka very much. Or she needs to help me with the rest of 1D as it currently stands, if she's that confident.
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May 13, 2017 10:06
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After a night of experimentation, I have found the one true path left for Sicario. Use any setup that lets you sprint and fire at the same time. Use LBV. Make sure you get 10% dodge from sprinting. An LBV feedback loop is still possible, but only while sprinting. Now never let go of sprint. If you do, you die. Don't take cover, cause the instant an enemy sees you you'll die. Do not slow down to aim better, or you'll die. Just sprint. Sprint and kill till you see nothing to kill. Rest only very far from the conflict to get your stamina back. The instant you see any enemy, or take a single bullet, start sprinting. Make sure you can reload while sprinting, or you'll die while trying to reload. Just run in circles around the enemy while reloading. It's fine. LIVE BY THE SPEED. DIE BY THE SPEED. Appropriate for what started as a racing engine, I guess. Shooting Blanks posted:I've suddenly realized I don't like Fuuka very much. Or she needs to help me with the rest of 1D as it currently stands, if she's that confident. If someone asks me "hey come OD with us" then I've never turned down the invitation. I think the biggest issue is getting four people who are willing. I find people get discouraged by OD very quickly even when it goes well. Fuuka Ayase fucked around with this message at 13:52 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 13:46
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HebrewMagic posted:You had me at "naming an achievement after a Max Payne mode". Step 9 is an ultra dick move though. It's...really hard to tell. At this point both skills, weapons and enemies need to be rebalanced, because the inevitable (really restrictive) power creep toward OD has started. There were some problems with enemy damage on DW pre-housewarming, although health was pretty ok. My goal would be to create a wide enough range of breakpoints for different enemies, and make the highest breakpoints restrictive enough, that people wouldn't aim for one-shot builds through damage stacking. This would be accompanied by some form of nerf to silencer skills, fire, and some explosives. Headshot multipliers would also need to be reexamined, because I wouldn't want them to be static across enemy tyeps- if they are it's hard to avoid driving people either toward or away from headshot/crit based builds. Short answer is a bit harder than current DW, with some specific tweaks that remove some of the easier ways to rambo around at that difficulty, such as fire crits and speedy GLs. And with curved damage over distance distributions for enemy damage and accuracy. Skulldozers are the big remaining problem, because while their accuracy declines with distance, when they hit they hit for 100 damage at any range- and they shoot multiple per attack, iirc 3 at any range, which jumps to 10 when you're nearby. ooh, this is a good chance to explain my micro action outcomes approach! Negative feedback for micro level combat actions This is off the top of my head, so it may wander a bit. So, when should you punish a player for bad low-level combat decisions? How should you punish them? When a player exposes themselves to different kinds of threat, how can you effect their condition in a way that provides negative consequences or risk, without seeming arbitrary? The answer is different for different game systems. Payday 2 is a system that's highly random and requires risk-taking to complete objectives. This is in contrast with, say, L4D, where a really good team can completely control outcomes (with noted and extremely poor exceptions). L4D or Vermintide can have difficulty design where getting hit once or twice produces an immediate failstate as player feedback, because the punishment is (almost always) the result of a player mistake. Note, though, that when this doesn't happen, it's extremely frustrating. Negative feedback in L4D is extremely binomially distributed. You take damage and go down, because you screw up, or you don't, because you didn't. Health loss is entirely a reflection of player error and negative feedback. Payday 2 can't work like that under most circumstances, for two reasons. 1. The range of negative feedback capacity (how much armor or health the player has) is really variable. Some players "feel" that negative feedback much harder than others. 2. Payday 2's combat is a series of dicerolls, and armor (and dodge) exists as a partial buffer. You're expected to take damage in payday 2 combat, the difference is you need to manage the amount by controlling how much enemies fire at you. There are a lot of situations where enemies do damage to you in payday 2, where it's practically unavoidable. Thus, the distribution of damage needs to be much less binomial, because the damage can't uniformly function as negative feedback. Taking enemy fire (and thus sometimes taking damage) isn't a mistake on payday 2, it's a calculated risk. Armor (and to a lesser degree, health) serves as a buffer for risk, both as a mistake, and just as a cost of progress. To make negative feedback "fair", players need to not frequently feel like they are punished (with health loss and downs) for reasonable actions. This means that taking more damage should correspond to greater risk or error, based on player perceptions of the act. This is why snipers feel like bullshit when they shoot you without a laser- you had no warning. The way the game is constructed to address this is that (unlike most weapons), enemies have reduced accuracy and damage the further away they are from you. This gives the player a strong way of evaluating the risk of particular exposure actions, and makes damage appear "fair". Risk is, in ever combat situation, a function of distance in Payday 2. That's what damage and accuracy distributions are all about. It's also, of course, why more damaging enemies in Payday 2 provide stronger visual evidence of their presence, to make the risk calculus clearer for players. The risk calculus on micro level combat should almost always be clearly communicated to players, as much as possible. It's what makes the game feel "fair". You can only really take risk information communication away in situations where the player is actually performing a macro/high-level, conscious evaluation. Several decisions made with the game as it developed, starting with DW implementation, mess with the risk calculus. 1. Enemies do enough damage that the distribution of outcomes becomes more binomial, simply because their accuracy is the deciding factor. 2. Enemies are harder to distinguish from each other. At launch, enemies that carry different weapons, even of the same class, have significant model differences. This is to let you know, even if not consciously, that Caucasian beat cops wearing traditional police hats carry broncos, and the swat with red shell racks carry shotguns, making them more of a threat. All of this was almost certainly by design. By contrast, the game's hints explicitly tell you, "we made it harder to tell heavy and light Gensec Zeal SWAT apart", as well as a dozen other examples. 3. Enemies on higher difficulties have flattened or flat damage/distance distributions. For players who are conscious of the distance dynamic, this removes information they can use to make decisions. For everyone, though, it makes the assessment of risk more a matter of luck than decisionmaking. And that makes gameplay really unsatisfying. 4. If you're less satisfied with the more limited distribution of enemy types since Housewarming, this is why. You're used to (often unconsciously) evaluating the risk of different enemy types during gameplay, and now a lot of that's gone. Short version: Payday 2's use of armor, healing, and long-range hitscan attacks means that taking damage and facing risks is a part of gameplay. The game needs to give players an ability to manage risk based on information about enemy types and positions. Being unable to tell enemies apart, or having them present similar risk at any range, undermines that ability. Having enemies do a ton of damage means that players have less of an ability to get negative feedback about risk before dying, or to experience any risk at all. This makes combat feel arbitrary. STOP IMITATING VERMINTIDE. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 16:06 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 15:05
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Double posting to say several "this is why"s. 1. This is why there's such a divide between stealth and loud players. Loud Payday 2 gameplay is all about taking risks using an abundance of available information, with a lot of buffers for negative outcomes. Stealth is all about absolutely minimizing risks (preferably, to zero) using information that's arcane and limited. This produces almost completely different experiences, though both induce arousal through risk and accomplishment. 2. This is why I run armor builds- I have terrible reflexes these days, and armor gives me more of an opportunity to respond to feedback. 3. This is why snipers firing before entering their position has been a source of community frustration from day 1, but FBI vets weren't. 4. This is why building out dodge mechanics in the game vastly complicated its design and makes it harder to manage- dodge outcomes are almost always binomial, and there's very little buffer for negative outcomes. All in a game where taking damage is often unavoidable! 5. All of this is pretty basic game design stuff that's been publicly discussed since at least Halo and TF2. I'm picking it up as a layperson and explaining it badly. I guarantee that a bunch of people at OVK know all of this, it's just that someone is telling them to disregard it. They might have good reasons to do so! I just have no clue why. I'm getting negative outcomes, and I'm not getting any information that will help me understand my situation! Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 16:08 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 15:57
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I don't know why I didn't expect two separate paragraphs-long posts, but
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May 13, 2017 16:55
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That someone is Jules
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May 13, 2017 17:52
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This novelization of Payday 2 is looking really good!
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May 13, 2017 18:46
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Is there anyway to just remove/disable captain winters? I have a group of friends that loves this game, but absolutely hates dealing with him. They don't like having to bring weapons based around him and don't have all the DLC.
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May 13, 2017 18:47
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Payday 2: Taking their jewels, kicking em' in the Jules
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May 13, 2017 18:47
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Krataar posted:Is there anyway to just remove/disable captain winters? I have a group of friends that loves this game, but absolutely hates dealing with him. They don't like having to bring weapons based around him and don't have all the DLC. Now is the perfect time to buy DLC.
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May 13, 2017 19:00
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UnknownMercenary posted:Now is the perfect time to buy DLC.
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May 13, 2017 19:08
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