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big time bisexual posted:Bioware was doing focus testing for Andromeda two years ago and one of the participants posted the survey they received. They stuck to this general outline but scaled it way back in scope. This sounds pretty much like what we got, just scaled down. The only thing that stands out is the colony management stuff which ended up getting turned into the cryopod stuff instead. I'd say the issue here is we have a broad setup for a Mass Effect game that's all about ~*~Exploration~*~ but at no point did anyone bother to come up with a good story to tie the whole thing together.
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May 11, 2017 19:56
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fruit on the bottom posted:A massive nerd that has video game memorabilia on her wall. haha what a loving dork *glances at Grom Hellscream action figure on my desk* hah.. haha...
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May 11, 2017 19:57
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Snuffman posted:I'd say the issue here is we have a broad setup for a Mass Effect game that's all about ~*~Exploration~*~ but at no point did anyone bother to come up with a good story to tie the whole thing together. Many people seem to think that video game writing is still Zork-level quality but most RPGs these days are capable of doing stuff like establishing themes, setting a tone, and carrying character arcs and that solid game writing has been recognized alongside all the other aspects of gameplay for the last 20 years.
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May 11, 2017 20:02
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ashpanash posted:
I mean there were no other races in the Local Cluster besides Humans. Why would you be shocked there is only 1 alien race to be found in the Heleus cluster. I mean they are evil in so much as their culture is to expand themselves by assimilation and exaltation of other races. The Archon was shown to be more of an rear end in a top hat the other kett you talk to who's just like "I dunno, gently caress the archon, if you guys want to kill him I'm not gonna stop you." So there are Kett that can reason and have different motivations. But As a character who isn't an Exalted Kett, the Kett are probably gonna be stuck being evil outside of a maybe a couple of them. As non-kett aren't going to be cool with their reproduction style.
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May 11, 2017 20:04
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Moola posted:haha what a loving dork Yeah, I really shouldn't judge. There's nothing on my walls but regret.
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May 11, 2017 20:07
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Android Blues posted:PoE's lore is so far from generic Tolkien though. Like...maybe if you just scan the surface and are like, "oh, it has elves and wizards". It also has militaristic Hawaiian shark people, fantasy races as ethnic groups within unrelated countries rather than the residents of ethnonations, a war where the winning side blew up a god with explosives, a large imperial nation that isn't a video game-brand "evil empire", and people with weird death bug heads. To top it off it's designed around Renaissance/Age of Sail-era cultures rather than medieval ones. That's all great, but none of that lore is visible unless you're knee deep in someone's plot-tree or reading one of the books. Little of it translates over to the game so you get a very generic fantasy rpg. -Sail Era? Visit the docks but never ride the boats. -Militaristic Shark people? See a couple of them in the story, they get +2 to strength or something. -Godlike? A few changed lines and you can't wear a robe hood. -Dudes sacrificing part of their soul into a bomb to blow up a God? Sounds way more fun, too bad thats not in the game either. -I'd also say the Qunari have been more 'realised' than the Aumaua as far as generic warlike sailing factions go. Dragon Age isn't much better either, and Mass Effect continues to be one of the few Space Fantasy settings we get whilst being butchered by a divided writing staff.
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May 11, 2017 20:20
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Dexo posted:I mean there were no other races in the Local Cluster besides Humans. Why would you be shocked there is only 1 alien race to be found in the Heleus cluster. There were plenty of races in the local cluster (Protheans, for instance, had ruins on Mars) but the Milky Way had the Reapers cleaning house every 50,000 years. Not so in Andromeda. No evidence of any kind, not even ruins or tech or anything.
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May 11, 2017 20:21
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Some of the planet descriptions cite that there were once advanced/intelligent but-not-spacefaring races on them before their planets got all hosed up.
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May 11, 2017 20:25
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fruit on the bottom posted:Yeah, I really shouldn't judge. There's nothing on my walls but regret. I dont need to hear about your j/o sessions dude...
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May 11, 2017 20:26
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In a final bid to save the Mass Effect franchise, it will be revealed that Dragon Ages takes place on a planet in another cluster of Andromeda, and Ryder and Co. will make an emergency landing and appear in the next Dragon Age game as DLC.
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May 11, 2017 20:28
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fruit on the bottom posted:In a final bid to save the Mass Effect franchise, it will be revealed that Dragon Ages takes place on a planet in another cluster of Andromeda, and Ryder and Co. will make an emergency landing and appear in the next Dragon Age game as DLC. Ryder is a blood mage.
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May 11, 2017 20:29
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Pick posted:Ryder is a blood mage. he's possessed!
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May 11, 2017 20:29
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I started a New Game + and they gave some of the more famously awful animations another pass. Judging by the "Alec is dead" conversation they decided that less animation was preferable to bad animation, which is true, but still kinda conspicuously lazy in a different way. Instead of randomly wobbling their heads at different parts of the room Ryder and Addison just sort of get droopy eyelids and stare down.
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May 11, 2017 20:32
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JawKnee posted:Sure, but while I can find 'pre-development started at X' for some other games (ME1, ME2) I can't find that for DA2. All I can find is the announcement date. But I do know that there's a thread floating around in archives somewhere where a goon claimed to be a senior dev at Bioware, and that DA2 had a 1 year dev cycle. The media/dev cycle would confirm that, there's still da2 Q&A articles floating around dealing with that kind of stuff from the massively failed hype-up before release. You really get a sense of how much bioware was under EA's thumb back then because I swear half the dev answers were borderline passive-aggressive jabs at their corporate masters - they actually mentioned that one of EA's concerns re: da2 was that the call of duty games had short dev cycles (new game every year) but were still all selling 10 million + copies at the time, while DA:O had something like a 6 year cycle from inception to finish but had a fraction of the financial success and that was unacceptable to EA so bioware was now looking at 1 year cycle models. It was framed to sound like they were just running a much tighter ship under EA's guidance but it's clear they were unhappy with the corners they had to cut. Not all new content has to actually be new was one of the bizarre dev responses that telegraphed the planned re-use of major assets like generic dungeons. The smaller scope narrative of DA2 was designed from the ground up to be the kind of game that would facilitate a short cycle IIRC, like the story of one city across the years is nice because you only have to make one city that you revisit year after year instead of like 4 completely different hubs. Not being able to fix the city's biggest problems because they transcend the player (red lyrium incurably rotting your brain, the city's architecture is giant tevinter blood rune, the undying demon xebenkeck has vested interests in kirkwall, etc) funnels major events to keep them from causing branching changes so not many alternate-kirkwall assets have to be created to adapt your decisions. Instead you have control over the small things. I still really liked the story, characters and gameplay but they were all let down by a poo poo cycle imho. A tight story like that is best told through slight but persistent changes in details over the years, not by ignoring details all together imho. JawKnee posted:ME2/DA1 are the best casts DA1 was competently written imho but bioware was definitely still thinking in blander stereotypes at least half the time back then. Alistair, Oghren, Zevran, Lelianna were all hastily borrowed fantasy archtypes right down to their basic personalities even if they were all arguably amusing at times - like we've seen witty & humble but handsome secret royal love interest about as often as we've seen crass, drunken berserker dwarf. Wynne, Sten and the Shale bucked the trend a bit and at least did neat twists on ideas and they were all the better for it. I'd easily put ME2 over DA:O myself tbh.
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May 11, 2017 20:33
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I liked DA2's characters more than DA1's, shame about the rest of the game though
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May 11, 2017 20:36
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hard counter posted:The media/dev cycle would confirm that, there's still da2 Q&A articles floating around dealing with that kind of stuff from the massively failed hype-up before release. You really get a sense of how much bioware was under EA's thumb back then because I swear half the dev answers were borderline passive-aggressive jabs at their corporate masters - they actually mentioned that one of EA's concerns re: da2 was that the call of duty games had short dev cycles (new game every year) but were still all selling 10 million + copies at the time, while DA:O had something like a 6 year cycle from inception to finish but had a fraction of the financial success and that was unacceptable to EA so bioware was now looking at 1 year cycle models. It was framed to sound like they were just running a much tighter ship under EA's guidance but it's clear they were unhappy with the corners they had to cut. Not all new content has to actually be new was one of the bizarre dev responses that telegraphed the planned re-use of major assets like generic dungeons. I agree, but I still think DA2 is a ton of super good ideas that ultimately came together in a game that is still fun and interesting and unique. If it had a bit more time, it might have spoiled it. I enjoy it very much for what it is, though I'm sorry that it couldn't be polished enough for people to get the same experience from it that I did. It breaks my heart that people don't see the good in it just because there are some awkward dimensions to it. Following Kirkwall, and realizing you are "smaller" than Kirkwall, and that your real quest is what kind of friend you're going to be, not some great arbiter of cosmic outcomes, was a really cool take.
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May 11, 2017 20:37
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DA2 had Aveline who might be BioWare's best character
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May 11, 2017 20:38
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Pattonesque posted:DA2 had Aveline who might be BioWare's best character She's my favorite, and DA2 Varric is really good too.
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May 11, 2017 20:39
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ashpanash posted:Please elaborate. What did you like about it and what did you find fun? This is from forever ago but I went to sleep. Anyway, Things I liked: The shooty bits were always entertaining I could lose myself in the codex for hours, I love that a full universe is built The story wasn't great but didn't drive me off (I suspect this is what I'll catch the most pushback for) Interactions with the crew were fun Exploring systems and the little blurbs about each planet Things I did not like: Obviously the animations are still pretty janky; also why is everyone's face pockmarked like the loving moon? I don't need my pores in exquisite detail I'm not overly a fan of the return to a ME1 style inventory management system compared to the streamlined stuff we got in ME2 and 3 Sometimes it was hard to tell if a particular bit of scenery would let you take cover or not Overall I enjoyed it like I said and I know it's not a popular opinion here. I'd play a sequel. Feel free to tell me I'm why games suck now or whatever you like. e: exquisite tea posted:You won't play a sequel and in fact... nobody will. Forever. well yes 
fast cars loose anus fucked around with this message at 20:55 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 20:50
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You won't play a sequel and in fact... nobody will. Forever. 
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May 11, 2017 20:52
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exquisite tea posted:You won't play a sequel and in fact... nobody will. Forever. They'll make a sequel eventually because in six or seven years "Mass Effect: The Comeback/Apology" will be a thing people want to buy
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May 11, 2017 20:55
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fast cars loose anus posted:Overall I enjoyed it like I said and I know it's not a popular opinion here. I'd play a sequel. Feel free to tell me I'm why games suck now or whatever you like. No, that's fine - perfectly acceptable. It just bugs me when people say "no, it was x" (whether x is good or bad) in a sea of opposite opinions and then don't elaborate at all. It sounds like you had fun with the game. I'm glad that you managed to get some enjoyment out of it. I will note that I thought I was having fun with the game while I was playing it, too. I soured on it after reflecting on it. I'd be curious to see if your opinion changes.
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May 11, 2017 20:55
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exquisite tea posted:You won't play a sequel and in fact... nobody will. Forever. But what if a good team was developing it?
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May 11, 2017 20:55
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Just want to say that after forcing myself to beat MEA, I started playing Hollow Knight and felt like, waves of physical and mental relief wash over me. Edit: Also the entire game is set in an insect world, and it still has less bugs than MEA heyooooo
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May 11, 2017 20:55
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Mass Effect is basically a dating sim with shooty parts, but it's missing the anime
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May 11, 2017 20:56
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ashpanash posted:No, that's fine - perfectly acceptable. It just bugs me when people say "no, it was x" (whether x is good or bad) in a sea of opposite opinions and then don't elaborate at all. That's fair. I'm considering a new game+ but I'm gonna wait a bit; it is possible my opinion will change.
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May 11, 2017 20:58
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I really can't recommend Horizon Zero Dawn enough. Incidentally, I purchased Nier: Automata. Haven't played it yet, but based on other's recommendations, they have my money now.
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May 11, 2017 20:59
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SgtSteel91 posted:But what if a good team was developing it? I think that's simply out of Bioware's purview now. They're dead, doomed to an eternity of Destiny clones and delayed IPs.
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May 11, 2017 21:04
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Pick posted:I agree, but I still think DA2 is a ton of super good ideas that ultimately came together in a game that is still fun and interesting and unique. If it had a bit more time, it might have spoiled it. I enjoy it very much for what it is, though I'm sorry that it couldn't be polished enough for people to get the same experience from it that I did. I generally agree I'm just a little more optimistic about bioware being able to pull the trigger on their ideas if they had more time. For example a lot of rough stuff happens to anders over the ~10 years of the game, he's more delirious/less lucid than before, has more black outs and memory gaps, his mage underground thing is all but destroyed by meredith and he's completely back against the wall and radicalized by act 3. His model doesn't change to reflect any of this, his homebase doesn't change, nothing really changes outwardly. The static nature of the re-used assets conflicts a bit with the ongoing story and the dynamics it's telling imho. Adding a few more details here and there would've helped sell it and I think bioware would've actually done stuff like that because they did think to give anders a quick & easy palette-swapped edgy black coat in his last arc if you do the things he needs for his final transformative act. I like to think bioware would've done more with more time because to me da2 is like a great low budget film let down by being so low budget it can't completely realize its own ideas.
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May 11, 2017 21:25
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I tried to start a second playthrough to see what's changed but the dialogue is so horrible that I can't go on. It's just a really bad boring game, and the good parts are too few and far between to make it worthwhile. Gonna go play Uncharted 4 again and look forward to the massive DLC that's coming.
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May 11, 2017 21:29
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hard counter posted:I generally agree I'm just a little more optimistic about bioware being able to pull the trigger on their ideas if they had more time. For example a lot of rough stuff happens to anders over the ~10 years of the game, he's more delirious/less lucid than before, has more black outs and memory gaps, his mage underground thing is all but destroyed by meredith and he's completely back against the wall and radicalized by act 3. His model doesn't change to reflect any of this, his homebase doesn't change, nothing really changes outwardly. The static nature of the re-used assets conflicts a bit with the ongoing story and the dynamics it's telling imho. Adding a few more details here and there would've helped sell it and I think bioware would've actually done stuff like that because they did think to give anders a quick & easy palette-swapped edgy black coat in his last arc if you do the things he needs for his final transformative act. I like to think bioware would've done more with more time because to me da2 is like a great low budget film let down by being so low budget it can't completely realize its own ideas. Oh, I completely agree with that. Even things like having Anders' clinic not have the same dead body under a sheet for ten years would probably have added a little credibility to the idea of passing years (which was another thing I loved about the game though, the time gaps).
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May 11, 2017 21:30
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The good thing about Dragon Age 2 was that they went "Holy crap, let's not do that again" when they made Inquisition.
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May 11, 2017 21:33
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a primate posted:I tried to start a second playthrough to see what's changed but the dialogue is so horrible that I can't go on. It's just a really bad boring game, and the good parts are too few and far between to make it worthwhile. As I quickly found out, you can't even play the game differently - your dialog choices in almost all circumstances do not matter. One or two sentences will be different, but the conclusion of the conversation will be the same, and your relationship with that character will be the same regardless of your choices. It's the ultimate over-correction for Paragon\Renegade. You've got just one path: Earnest. It's another example of the dev team having no understanding of what made the original Mass Effect games work.
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May 11, 2017 21:37
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Midnight Voyager posted:The good thing about Dragon Age 2 was that they went "Holy crap, let's not do that again" when they made Inquisition. it's real sad they stepped away wholesale from da2 and probably won't do small but tight stories with characters that might clash with players anymore but i agree at least bioware/EA learned these games can't handle 1 year cycles and won't do that again either not that it helped andromeda much tho
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May 11, 2017 21:39
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hard counter posted:it's real sad they stepped away wholesale from da2 and probably won't do small but tight stories with characters that might clash with players anymore but i agree at least bioware/EA learned these games can't handle 1 year cycles and won't do that again either There's no relationship with a crew member in MEA that is half as interesting as the stupidest one in DA2. And I'm not talking about romance, I mean at all.
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May 11, 2017 21:41
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hard counter posted:it's real sad they stepped away wholesale from da2 and probably won't do small but tight stories with characters that might clash with players anymore but i agree at least bioware/EA learned these games can't handle 1 year cycles and won't do that again either Hopefully they also learned that you can't make a protagonist completely and utterly worthless and useless as a human being. Only reason Hawke ever survived my Inquisition games is I liked Varric enough to not want him to be sad. gonna sit around on my rear end and let the gangs infest the city again... ugggh fine, I guess I'll clean it out. It's like getting a cold and then not going to the doctor until you are actually dying of complications from pneumonia. Over and over and over again. That was the biggest flaw of that time skip thing, it made Hawke just worthless. After the time skip, they act like they haven't done literally a single thing to solve anything. Other people, sure, but they just sat around and ate pies or some drat thing. Why would I want the world to seem like it moves on when the protagonist does not? Their character arc was starting off running and just continuing to run until all their problems compounded a hundredfold and caught up with them. And they were rewarded for it, except for their stupidity getting more family killed. What lesson was learned? Well, none, they run from town in the end either way. I'm not asking to be a prophecy-chosen world-saver, I'm asking to be someone who can get things done in some capacity. Someone maybe who I couldn't replace with LITERALLY ANYONE ELSE and have a better result. I'd rather play a game just with all the side characters and cut out Hawke, frankly. I'll play the brother who hated their guts. He at least had an arc, mainly if you sent him with the wardens. (But I also 100% hated the map reusing and the gameplay changes and the spawning thing and the sidequests with NOTHING attached to them other than FIND ITEM CLICK MAN and all of that, so maybe I wouldn't...) ...er TLDR: Clashing with player is fine by me, as long as the player character isn't loathsome. That part was really a good idea. It's just too bad it was in DA2.
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May 11, 2017 22:01
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Hawke being laureled as a hero for half-assedly addressing problems he and his own friends were directly responsible for, again, makes the game more good, not bad.
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May 11, 2017 22:04
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Pick posted:Hawke being laureled as a hero for half-assedly addressing problems he and his own friends were directly responsible for, again, makes the game more good, not bad. But if I'm gonna be stuck playing someone for a whole game, they better be someone I don't want to strangle.
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May 11, 2017 22:05
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SgtSteel91 posted:But what if a good team was developing it? Larian Studios already has their own IP and projects.
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May 11, 2017 22:06
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I love Hawke.
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May 11, 2017 22:07
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