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Mors Rattus posted:The rule is that in full death rage, werewolves don't attack each other - just everything else. Resolving their differences through shared violence!
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May 11, 2017 03:34
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With the slightly infectious nature of Death Rage and the way it just seems to encourage kind of "blacking out" those scenes either both packs restrain the raging werewolves and wait it out, or everyone goes nuts, claws up each other, realizes instinctively it's pointless, and become a sort of super-pack of raging werewolves tearing up their surroundings. It's great story material.
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May 11, 2017 03:39
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Mors Rattus posted:The rule is that in full death rage, werewolves don't attack each other - just everything else. I think they also exclude anyone or anything that they recognize as part of their pack. Which can lead to some fun after frenzy antics as a party member murders a non-werewolf pack member.
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May 11, 2017 03:56
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Soonmot posted:Full healing only happens in the warform, which is a time limited, and you have to be killing something or on your way to kill something to maintain it. It also allows you to do awesome things like have your throat torn out by a strength specced nosferatu dragur while on FIRE and get back up the next round. It's extremely boring and stupid in practice. Fights in which people simply don't take damage are not awesome, and it's absurd that the only way for one regular werewolf to lay out another is to literally start eating them on the spot. Like, in combat. Just chewing and swallowing each time your initiative comes up.
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May 11, 2017 03:57
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Does sound like it'd work as a rule in Adeptus Evangelion more than in Werewolf.
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May 11, 2017 04:14
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Ferrinus posted:It's extremely boring and stupid in practice. Fights in which people simply don't take damage are not awesome, and it's absurd that the only way for one regular werewolf to lay out another is to literally start eating them on the spot. Like, in combat. Just chewing and swallowing each time your initiative comes up. Bring silver. Or, in defiance of the fight, decide to play by the Oaths of the Moon and not try to kill your fellow werewolf. The superhealing also can't recover from agg damage.
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May 11, 2017 04:35
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Or, and this is crazy, you can work as a pack and take down a warform werewolf together? In the game I played, I think I was the only player to actually go into garou form and that was to save our wolf blooded member from the dragur.
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May 11, 2017 05:13
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Soonmot posted:Or, and this is crazy, you can work as a pack and take down a warform werewolf together? In the game I played, I think I was the only player to actually go into garou form and that was to save our wolf blooded member from the dragur. Absolutely this. They don't really present Death Rage as being a good thing to do.
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May 11, 2017 05:18
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I regret that I never really got my Mage to try a method of dealing with werewolves by levitating them up in the air until they tucker themselves out.
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May 11, 2017 05:19
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Tasoth posted:Bring silver. Or, in defiance of the fight, decide to play by the Oaths of the Moon and not try to kill your fellow werewolf. The superhealing also can't recover from agg damage. In 1E, werewolves could like... fight each other, and there'd be a winner and a loser because two werewolves - even in the war form - could attack each other for real damage which didn't turn out to have been a collective hallucination three seconds later. Now though the only way one werewolf can beat another in a fight is some combination of cheating or blasphemy. Soonmot posted:Or, and this is crazy, you can work as a pack and take down a warform werewolf together? In the game I played, I think I was the only player to actually go into garou form and that was to save our wolf blooded member from the dragur. Focusing a war form werewolf is stupid because the vast majority of the damage you do gets undone. You have to attack whoever's not in war form.
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May 11, 2017 05:38
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I Am Just a Box posted:Are Xinder's friend's objections specifically to the things changed in Forsaken, or more generally to things changed in the core rules? I can see stuff like people disliking Conditions and beats, say, but the only thing that really sticks out to me that's Werewolf-specific is the awkward division of Death Rage into two phases with similar names. I think she actually liked some of the rules changes but some sort of lore thing bothered her. I was mostly tuned out of the rant about lore/mechanics that I don't care about. I do recall the phrase "werewolf gently caress island" and I'm not sure if that's a real thing or some hypothetical that she was upset about. Trying to remember and the only other thing that comes to mind is that the aforementioned werewolf gently caress island is probably connected to one of the antagonist factions? Something about eugenics too. As an aside, I love her to death and she's a great ST, but she's insane. She can get hung up on weird little minutiae and consider an otherwise good work bad because of it, even if it's really not a big deal at all. So while I don't really have a horse in this race, I'd imagine she's just being weird about this and there's not a real problem. But after dealing with that rant I've decided to not bother and just stick to 1e for a bit longer. Maybe once Geist has a 2e I'll feel strongly enough about jumping over that I'll make a serious push in our group. I love Geist but god it could use some help.
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May 11, 2017 05:41
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Der Waffle Mous posted:I regret that I never really got my Mage to try a method of dealing with werewolves by levitating them up in the air until they tucker themselves out. one of my early games had a changeling clarity break and go into a rage, but they only had one strength. so while one of the other characters tanked the ineffective punches, i went into the other room, grabbed a bedsheet, and tossed it over the raging changeling. they got tangled up in it and were restrained until they managed to calm down.
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May 11, 2017 05:50
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Working on the Changeling fealty maps again, and the older content really is better in terms of having more oddities among the vassals. One is Faerilyth controlling the Duke of Cotton as a vassal (technically, she still might, but it doesn't have a writeup in C20) while being essentially 'above' the Kings and Queens as High King David's wife, having been given it as a gift by her uncle King Meilge - which would also mean that, assuming the obligations pass down via the blood as they theoretically should, that the rightfully begotten heir of David and Faerilyth will inherit control while no longer being 'of' the Kingdom of Willows like Faerilyth is. The other is Duke Asterlan, who has been wiped away completely in C20 without a single mention. He's from Canada and controlled the Duchy of Lenoria and the Knights of Asterlan, but was a direct vassal of High King David akin to Duke Dray or Topaz. 'Enclave' fealties like that can make for great drama. If tensions between Queen Laurel of the Northern Ice and High King David (or in the Concordian Civil War era, High Queen Faerilyth) spark into real trouble (whether military or civil), Duke Asterlan is suddenly a pivotal figure in the balance of power as the point of the spear in any attack against the disobedient Queen or as the site of negotiations in the north, etcetera.
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May 11, 2017 07:44
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I remember a off-hand mention of a madman who claims to speak for the Shadow Court being on the council. Was that ever explained? I hope not.
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May 11, 2017 07:56
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I'll give it a check later on, since it doesn't ring much of a bell. One other pattern I failed to notice until now: Despite changelings aging terribly and rarely making it that long in mortal terms, virtually every noble is the same as in the 90s. While nobles have freeholds and in theory should be best placed to survive, we're still talking at least 20 years in office for most of them, and a lot had already been in place since the 80s. Somehow, Bedlam or Banality hasn't claimed as many of them as it should have.
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May 11, 2017 08:29
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Loomer posted:I'll give it a check later on, since it doesn't ring much of a bell. Sliding timeline?
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May 11, 2017 08:31
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I'd say so, except they explicitly reference the metaplot more or less as it happened for Changeling, complete with the appropriate dates. It's a... Weird situation overall and it comes from having to simultaneously be a revisitation and an update. If it was purely an agnostic 'hey here's the game that was but with a spitshine!' it wouldn't be 'wait, <x> is still Duke? He was already a Grump on the edge of fading!', and if it was a pure update there'd be far fewer old names existing in the same places and contexts as they do.
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May 11, 2017 08:35
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Considering the Grumps benefit to resist passive Banality, it's not really surprising they are still around. What's surprising is that so many Grumps burn out in the first place. I mean if you effectively live a kind of crazy and offbeat life, you are going to pick up Banality slooooooowly. It's no longer enough to just be around the soul crushing building or a repressed accountant to start killing your faerie soul. Sidhe only have it easier, because they tend to flock to positions of wealth and power. And that means you only have to interact with the normal world as much as you want to, even when you are living with it. I mean forget the loving Unseelie, Peter Thiel takes blood from the young in an attempt to live forever and society just quietly lets that one go. The dude is literally doing poo poo openly that would make a fictional character in the modern era look like a cartoon villain, and yet here we are. Being rich means, on some level, not having to conform. Even if the Sidhe get hurt that much more by Banality, they are that much *less* required to deal with it. I could see the poor, who still have the basic Grump requirement to take care of those around them, burning out more often by having to actually deal with the world around them and not always having a kinain or something to take the heat. But the rich? As always, they just get richer and safer as time goes on.
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May 11, 2017 10:04
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Mulva posted:Considering the Grumps benefit to resist passive Banality, it's not really surprising they are still around. What's surprising is that so many Grumps burn out in the first place. I mean if you effectively live a kind of crazy and offbeat life, you are going to pick up Banality slooooooowly. It's no longer enough to just be around the soul crushing building or a repressed accountant to start killing your faerie soul. Sidhe only have it easier, because they tend to flock to positions of wealth and power. And that means you only have to interact with the normal world as much as you want to, even when you are living with it. I mean forget the loving Unseelie, Peter Thiel takes blood from the young in an attempt to live forever and society just quietly lets that one go. The dude is literally doing poo poo openly that would make a fictional character in the modern era look like a cartoon villain, and yet here we are. Being rich means, on some level, not having to conform. Even if the Sidhe get hurt that much more by Banality, they are that much *less* required to deal with it. The part that makes it more surprising is really the lack of bedlam taking more of them when they turn into Grumps. Sticking around in a Freehold all day to stay young is just as good a way to basically kill yourself as marching into a sterile gray cube to pretend to be an automated answering machine for the rest of your life. A larger than normal proportion of the nobles surviving is also fine, it's just weird to me that it's like, 90% of them.
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May 11, 2017 10:27
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I guess I will just go ahead and quote some of the hard rage rules since there appears to be some confusion:quote:[...] immediately shifts into Gauru form, and remains in that form for the time specified by his Primal Urge (see p.93 [or my chart further down]). pre:Primal Hard Rage Urge Time 1 10 minutes 2 10 minutes 3 15 minutes 4 20 minutes 5 30 minutes 6 1 hour 7 2 hours 8 3 hours 9 6 hours 10 12 hours
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May 11, 2017 14:32
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Soonmot posted:Full healing only happens in the warform, which is a time limited, and you have to be killing something or on your way to kill something to maintain it. It also allows you to do awesome things like have your throat torn out by a strength specced nosferatu dragur while on FIRE and get back up the next round. Is it time limited? I thought you just had limited time before you got dropped into Kuruth, after which you stayed in that form until your MurderBeast Timer ran down. Edit: Yeah, there in the prior post. Silly me.
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May 11, 2017 15:35
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Axelgear posted:Is it time limited? I thought you just had limited time before you got dropped into Kuruth, after which you stayed in that form until your MurderBeast Timer ran down. It is much more time limited when you are not in hard rage. In that case, the werewolf can go into war-form once per scene and for a number of turns equal to their human form's Stamina + Primal Urge. If the werewolf wants to be in war form longer, then the following applies: quote:After that point, she must choose: Shift down into [near-human] or [near wolf], or fall into the [death rage]. If she does not shift, roll Resolve + Composure as a reflexive action. If she succeeds, she has one more turn in [war-form], then must shift to [near-human] or [near wolf], and enters [soft rage]. If she fails, she enters [hard rage] immediately. Death Rage is the bigger box that contains both soft rage and hard rage. My previous post explained hard rage. Soft rage is a modified version of the war-form rage (e: which is completely separate from death, soft, and hard rages), described by the following quote: quote:A [war-form werewolf] must attack an active opponent within striking range each turn. She does not have to continue to attack a crippled opponent as long as another opponent exists. If an opponent is out of reach, she can move toward or throw things at opponent. If she has no opponents, she will attack anything she can reach. If she does anything else, roll Resolve + Composure or fall into [death rage]. The modification of that war-form rage by a soft rage is as follows: quote:If he fails the Resolve + Composure roll for taking other actions, he enters [hard rage]. pre:Harmony Control 10 3 seconds 9 10 seconds 8 30 seconds 7 1 minute 6 5 minutes 5 15 minutes 4 5 minutes 3 1 minute 2 30 seconds 1 10 seconds 0 3 seconds Kibner fucked around with this message at 16:28 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 16:25
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The bidirectional harmony track is the best thing to come out of Werewolf 2e I'm not even joking. "No I have to eat this fast food and watch this anime or I am literally going to go insane."
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May 11, 2017 16:30
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Kibner posted:I guess I will just go ahead and quote some of the hard rage rules since there appears to be some confusion:
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May 11, 2017 16:37
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So, Dark Eras 2 is being considered for a Kickstarter and people are suggesting things, and one is Satanic Panic Era Hunter/Beast. I am really conflicted.
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May 11, 2017 16:52
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Axelgear posted:So, Dark Eras 2 is being considered for a Kickstarter and people are suggesting things, and one is Satanic Panic Era Hunter/Beast. I am really conflicted. More places to murder beasts sounds like a great thing.
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May 11, 2017 17:06
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Thinking of Satanic Panic content, didn't New Wave Requiem namedrop Vampire: the Masquerade being released in-setting?
Kellsterik fucked around with this message at 17:12 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 17:09
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Axelgear posted:So, Dark Eras 2 is being considered for a Kickstarter and people are suggesting things, and one is Satanic Panic Era Hunter/Beast. I am really conflicted. Satanic Panic is clearly better suited to Werewolf. 'Hey you, hairy fucker! Some idiot created a shitload of paranoia spirits with all this crazy gibberish on the news! Go deal with it!' (P.S. watch out for cops who've decided everything mystical looking must be satanic and that you're 'one of dem satanists on the news')
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May 11, 2017 17:11
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Satanic Panic is obviously an ideal Demon setting. I mean, talk about missing the forest for the trees. 
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May 11, 2017 17:34
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Loomer posted:Satanic Panic is clearly better suited to Werewolf. 'Hey you, hairy fucker! Some idiot created a shitload of paranoia spirits with all this crazy gibberish on the news! Go deal with it!' (P.S. watch out for cops who've decided everything mystical looking must be satanic and that you're 'one of dem satanists on the news') Tuxedo Catfish posted:Satanic Panic is obviously an ideal Demon setting. I mean, talk about missing the forest for the trees. It can definitely be both.
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May 11, 2017 17:50
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Kellsterik posted:Thinking of Satanic Panic content, didn't New Wave Requiem namedrop Vampire: the Masquerade being released in-setting? I don't recall. But now I want to check. That'd be hilarious, if only for the story opportunities it'd present.
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May 11, 2017 17:58
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Axelgear posted:So, Dark Eras 2 is being considered for a Kickstarter and people are suggesting things, and one is Satanic Panic Era Hunter/Beast. I am really conflicted. I can't wait to not spend money on this product. Also its not like there can be many more Changeling ideas after running the table last time.
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May 11, 2017 20:21
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I'll keep carrying the torch for Devil in the White City Requiem and !9th-Century Quebec Forsaken. But I'm super-broke so I won't participate this time.
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May 11, 2017 21:27
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Archonex posted:I don't recall. But now I want to check. That'd be hilarious, if only for the story opportunities it'd present. Play Vampires playing Vampire?
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May 11, 2017 23:19
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Axelgear posted:Play Vampires playing Vampire? It's mentioned twice that I can find in New Wave Requiem, but not VtM by name. It's in the context of role-playing games being a tool for recruiting cultists and again in the section on Belial's Brood.
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May 12, 2017 02:59
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Axelgear posted:So, Dark Eras 2 is being considered for a Kickstarter and people are suggesting things, and one is Satanic Panic Era Hunter/Beast. I am really conflicted. I've been kicking around the idea of Vampires during the Mongol Invasions. Not being a cause of them but freaking out about them because the loving Mongols are ruining the cities they've spent so long entrenching themselves in.
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May 12, 2017 03:05
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Xinder posted:I've been kicking around the idea of Vampires during the Mongol Invasions. Not being a cause of them but freaking out about them because the loving Mongols are ruining the cities they've spent so long entrenching themselves in. Imagine an elder who survived the fall of Rome thinking "drat it not again."
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May 12, 2017 03:45
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ZiegeDame posted:Imagine an elder who survived the fall of Rome thinking "drat it not again." "I'll go to Constantinople, surely no-one will sack it again!"
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May 12, 2017 03:50
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Kavak posted:"I'll go to Constantinople, surely no-one will sack it again!" The Chronicle of an Elder who just gets owned over and over again by major epochal changes and national collapses would be great.
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May 12, 2017 04:05
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Night10194 posted:The Chronicle of an Elder who just gets owned over and over again by major epochal changes and national collapses would be great. "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste. Or I was, before history started making GBS threads on me when the Sea People turned up. Hasn't stopped since."
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May 12, 2017 04:07
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