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MOTYC: Open the Dream Gate Dead or Alive Mask vs. Hair 5 Way Steel Cage Match: YAMATO vs. Naruki Doi vs. BxB Hulk vs. Shingo Takagi vs. Cyber Kong This was amazing. Why don't more promotions do this match?
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May 12, 2017 16:49
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Jenkem Delivery posted:MOTYC: Open the Dream Gate Dead or Alive Mask vs. Hair 5 Way Steel Cage Match: YAMATO vs. Naruki Doi vs. BxB Hulk vs. Shingo Takagi vs. Cyber Kong It's a cage match where the loser loses his mask or hair right? They happen pretty frequently in lucha promotions when they can't be assed to build to a real main event for a major show.
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May 12, 2017 18:33
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Probably because the lucha cage matches aren't a glorious 5-way clusterfuck that involve grabbing flags to qualify for the title, and copious amounts of outside interference.
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May 12, 2017 22:52
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Who loses their mask/hair in a match like that? All 4 losers, or whoever takes the fall?
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May 12, 2017 23:26
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Aphrodite posted:Who loses their mask/hair in a match like that? All 4 losers, or whoever takes the fall? Usually there are five flags at the top of the cage and the goal is to climb up and grab one in order to escape. Last one left loses their mask/hair. This year the match was for the Dream Gate title. There were four flags and the belt on top of the cage this year. The rules were you had to climb up and get a flag, at which point you became eligible to climb up and get the belt. People could be pinned or submitted at any time, eliminating them from the match. The defending champ, YAMATO, could not be eliminated from the match, and he could not climb up to get the belt until only two were left in the cage. If anyone had gotten the belt, YAMATO lost his hair. If YAMATO got the belt, than the last man in the cage with him loses his mask/hair. If this seems overly convoluted, it is. The rules are meant to encourage lots of outside interference, as Dragon Gate is booked around stable warfare so every stable came out to interfere with a vested interest in either getting their guy the title or preventing Verserk (the main heel group) from getting the title. Dimebags Brain fucked around with this message at 23:48 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 23:42
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So when they do something like that, do they just find a guy willing to shave his head to take the fall? I can't imagine a big permanent change like losing a mask happens that frequently in a 5 way clusterfuck match.
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May 13, 2017 00:16
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MOTYC - Will Ospreay vs. Jay White, ROH War of the Worlds, 5/12
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May 13, 2017 03:03
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sportsgenius86 posted:MOTYC - Will Ospreay vs. Jay White, ROH War of the Worlds, 5/12 Second
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May 13, 2017 03:04
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sportsgenius86 posted:MOTYC - Will Ospreay vs. Jay White, ROH War of the Worlds, 5/12 Yep yep yep
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May 13, 2017 03:31
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sportsgenius86 posted:MOTYC - Will Ospreay vs. Jay White, ROH War of the Worlds, 5/12 This match was hot.
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May 13, 2017 05:40
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HM: Young Bucks vs Naito and Bushi. Match was great and there was a nearfall so believable that Hulkamatt thought Bushi had just become ROH Tag Team Champion.
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May 13, 2017 16:30
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Dimebags Brain posted:If this seems overly convoluted, it is. The rules are meant to encourage lots of outside interference, as Dragon Gate is booked around stable warfare so every stable came out to interfere with a vested interest in either getting their guy the title or preventing Verserk (the main heel group) from getting the title. It's not even the most convoluted version of the match they've had, either. In recent years they've had a "Double Risk" version of the match where each participant had a representative outside the cage, and you had to first pin/submit someone and then get a flag to free your representative from risk of losing their hair/mask. One participant had two representatives because they lost a qualifier, so they had to pin/submit two people before they were eligible to climb for a flag. There were then one fewer flags than participants, so whoever didn't get one had his head shaved or lost his mask. When actually watching the match though, it was surprisingly straight forward because it gave you visual trackers on screen of who represented who, and who was freed. It's one of the most fun match styles I've ever seen.
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May 13, 2017 22:56
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sportsgenius86 posted:MOTYC - Will Ospreay vs. Jay White, ROH War of the Worlds, 5/12 Agreed
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May 16, 2017 07:04
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MOTYC: Will Ospreay vs. Marty Scurll, NJPW Best of the Super Juniors, 05/17
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May 17, 2017 12:20
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Venomous posted:MOTYC: Will Ospreay vs. Marty Scurll, NJPW Best of the Super Juniors, 05/17 God drat yes, seconded
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May 17, 2017 12:21
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I thought it could have used another 5-10 mins, so I'd like to give an HM to Marty Scurll v Will Ospreay, NJPW Best of the Super Juniors 2017
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May 17, 2017 19:45
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sportsgenius86 posted:MOTYC - Will Ospreay vs. Jay White, ROH War of the Worlds, 5/12 Yes. Jay White looks good (except for his hair)
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May 17, 2017 20:00
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Venomous posted:MOTYC: Will Ospreay vs. Marty Scurll, NJPW Best of the Super Juniors, 05/17 HM: Hiromu Takahashi vs Dragon Lee, NJPW Best of the Super Juniors, 05/17
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May 17, 2017 20:33
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St Evan Echoes posted:I thought it could have used another 5-10 mins, so I'd like to give an HM to Marty Scurll v Will Ospreay, NJPW Best of the Super Juniors 2017 See, I would've been inclined to agree with you, as their match in Edinburgh last month was a lot better from a technical standpoint, but as Marty's debut match in NJPW, possibly his first match in front of a Japanese crowd in general, that match got him and his character over so drat well. Like, in this match he repeatedly took the piss out of Ospreay and his mannerisms, and the way they set up the chickenwing and the finger snap as significant spots was absolutely perfect. I dunno, I just really liked it as a character piece.
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May 17, 2017 21:29
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wmotyc Ospreay vs scurll match built around corny unfunny banter, goofy rear end mugging and contrived sequences. idk how anyone could for a moment forget this was fake. sub-pantomime level poo poo. I've liked some of their previous matches too. motyc Hiromu vs dragon lee the closest of their series to a normal match. I'm glad they reined it in a little bc the last one finally ventured a little too far into indyriffic territory with the bloat, endless near falls and overdone exhaustion selling. loved all the unique little spots playing off their history. as always with these two, not everything came off perfectly but its so spirited that you can forgive it. Lee seems to be turning into a more well-rounded worker while still being an exhilarating spot machine. Spermgod fucked around with this message at 23:38 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 23:33
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Spermgod posted:wmotyc Ospreay vs scurll Martin sure is lucky he was in front of such unsophisticated loser fans who popped for that.
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May 18, 2017 04:44
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idk seems like you're putting words in his mouth
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May 18, 2017 05:11
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Spermgod posted:wmotyc Ospreay vs scurll ...dive.
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May 18, 2017 05:31
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marty's bird taunt and batman and robin-rear end interjections are stupid as hell
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May 18, 2017 05:35
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i mean there were like a few dozen ECW matches which mainly consisted of awful slow buildups to blown garbage spots repeatedly that everyone went nuts for in the building so the "everyone popped for it!" argument isnt a very good one
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May 18, 2017 05:49
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my favorite part was Ospreay yet again mocking someone that said something bad about flips in one of his big new japan matches
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May 18, 2017 06:18
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MassRafTer posted:Martin sure is lucky he was in front of such unsophisticated loser fans who popped for that. it got way over in the building yeah. i said as much on twitter at the time + agreed with Dave that Marty has his act down pat and is pretty much ready made to be a star in WWE (or anywhere). that i think his act is often completely insufferable is kind of irrelevant in that regard. in the context of what i thought of a match, though, idk why you'd take that line of argument. i thought you were above the weird goon passive aggressive misrepresenting deflection thing. Spermgod fucked around with this message at 06:56 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 06:45
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HM for Will Ospreay vs. Marty Scurll and Hiromu vs dragon lee from Best of Super Juniors 05/17 Both great matches that didn't quite MOTYC for me but topped off a fun watchable show.
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May 18, 2017 07:11
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MRT is not, in fact he's really mastered it.
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May 18, 2017 07:12
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SatoshiMiwa posted:HM for Will Ospreay vs. Marty Scurll and Hiromu vs dragon lee from Best of Super Juniors 05/17 Yeah I'd agree with these, both were very good matches but not [i]quite[i] up there at the top level with other matches I've seen this year.
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May 18, 2017 07:29
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Spermgod posted:it got way over in the building yeah. i said as much on twitter at the time + agreed with Dave that Marty has his act down pat and is pretty much ready made to be a star in WWE (or anywhere). that i think his act is often completely insufferable is kind of irrelevant in that regard. in the context of what i thought of a match, though, idk why you'd take that line of argument. i thought you were above the weird goon passive aggressive misrepresenting deflection thing. I don't like Marty Scurll that much, and don't dig his matches but when a guy walks into a building and his match gets that over it's really, really hard to call it the Worst Match of the Year, or close to it. I really wanted Hogan vs Rock to be the Worst Match of the Year, and on a technical level it was really bad, but they did exactly what the people wanted to see. But when you are saying you don't know how anyone could forget this is fake about a match that got over in the building, it comes across super elitist and super misses the point. You do the match that gets over for the people who are in the building. I'd love wrestling to be done directly for me personally, but it's not. It's one thing when it's established stars like Rock and Hogan, or Hogan and a lot of people in WCW. They have a built in advantage and a crowd can react to the worst poo poo in the world due to nostalgia. But when you are debuting in a company and they eat your poo poo up? It seems really out of touch to say it's among the worst stuff of the year. Feels Villeneuve posted:i mean there were like a few dozen ECW matches which mainly consisted of awful slow buildups to blown garbage spots repeatedly that everyone went nuts for in the building so the "everyone popped for it!" argument isnt a very good one Plenty of ECW matches that looked awful in retrospect were given passes at the time and stuff that was average was praised. I've always felt RVD vs Lynn was spot, rest, spot, rest, spot, rest, spot, rest, spot, rest for 20 minutes. It bores me, but I wouldn't call it the worst match of the year it was in. And that match had junior matches with crazier, better paced stuff going on all around the world at the time, so you could compare it in context. But the crowd and overall fanbase loved it, so to call it poo poo is just stupid. It's something that didn't connect with me. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 12:58 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 12:53
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Spoiler he doesn't really think it's the worst of the year he just didn't like it and needs people to notice his opinions.
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May 18, 2017 13:26
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Randy was right
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May 18, 2017 13:46
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I badly want to not like Marty but my main memory from the WOTW will be the finger break and chicken wing getting a much bigger pop than a Cop Killah.
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May 18, 2017 15:01
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MassRafTer posted:I don't like Marty Scurll that much, and don't dig his matches but when a guy walks into a building and his match gets that over it's really, really hard to call it the Worst Match of the Year, or close to it. I really wanted Hogan vs Rock to be the Worst Match of the Year, and on a technical level it was really bad, but they did exactly what the people wanted to see. But when you are saying you don't know how anyone could forget this is fake about a match that got over in the building, it comes across super elitist and super misses the point. You do the match that gets over for the people who are in the building. I'd love wrestling to be done directly for me personally, but it's not. It's one thing when it's established stars like Rock and Hogan, or Hogan and a lot of people in WCW. They have a built in advantage and a crowd can react to the worst poo poo in the world due to nostalgia. But when you are debuting in a company and they eat your poo poo up? It seems really out of touch to say it's among the worst stuff of the year. I dunno I'm just talking about my personal response to a match. whether it worked into the building doesn't really factor into whether i think it was good or bad (except for whatever aesthetic value the crowd's response provides). this isn't something I feel any need to be fair or objective about. after all, its art, as Will and Ricochet are so keen to remind us.
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May 18, 2017 15:01
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Aphrodite posted:Spoiler he doesn't really think it's the worst of the year he just didn't like it and needs people to notice his opinions. nah I really did. it wasn't the least competent match mechanically or structurally but it was the most antithetical to what I want wrestling to be, which is worse than incompetence.
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May 18, 2017 15:06
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Spermgod posted:I dunno I'm just talking about my personal response to a match. whether it worked into the building doesn't really factor into whether i think it was good or bad (except for whatever aesthetic value the crowd's response provides). this isn't something I feel any need to be fair or objective about. after all, its art, as Will and Ricochet are so keen to remind us. When you say you don't see how anyone could forget it's fake I find it hard to believe you aren't talking about other people too. I'd really love my first reaction to Marty Scurll to be correct and say he sucks, but when a guy makes a debut and does poo poo that gets over can you really hate the match for it? It's not even about the aesthetic of the crowd it's a guy working to get over and make himself a star. If you don't like it that's fine but to say "this is one of the worst things I've seen this year" seems silly.
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May 18, 2017 15:15
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I mean, yeah, I guess when I say that I'm looking at my response relative to others and am kind of bewildered that they clearly aren't seeing what I'm seeing. but it's not like I'm trying to say the match was objectively bad or anything. I'm not hating on the guy for getting over, but I don't see why I need to temper my personal response because of it. I can appreciate the craft involved in developing an act and masterfully playing to the crowd, and I'll give Marty all the credit in the world for that, but it doesn't make me find the act itself any less aesthetically repugnant.
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May 18, 2017 15:31
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changing your worst match of the year nomination to an honorable mention for best match of the year would be more than enough to display your personal feelings, without attacking and making a mockery out of me and the process that i've created here
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May 18, 2017 15:55
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You have to consider the context when you nominate a worst of the year in a year where Enzo Amore has matches though.
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May 18, 2017 15:56
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