Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Makaris
May 4, 2009

ZorajitZorajit posted:

Took down my first Shambler last night (please don't look at the number of hours I have in this game with this little success). Had meant to just go on a cash run, but decided gently caress it. Buried three characters and ran away with the Ancestor's Map in hand. Now I'm bankrupt but slowly rebuilding.

Also go the "Revive a Dead Hero" event for the first time. But didn't realize it would be back my level 5 Occultist back with no weapons, armor, skills, or camping. So, I may just be firing him and letting him enjoy not being a corpse somewhere else.

Congrats man! Depending know their level three guys for a map is a good trade. The map is one of the best utility trinkets in the game.

It's worth ressing a hero if if the Time/Money equation is favorable enough. With the new economy, and reduced time to faff-around in Stygian, it feels pretty worth it most of the time.

Edit: granted, late game you can be down a hero and still be in fine shape if you've been levelling them evenly.

Makaris fucked around with this message at 17:04 on May 12, 2017

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
I've never rezzed a hero yet like that but assuming they keep their positive quirks then it is very much worth getting them back, even if you have to re-train/equip them.

The Skeleton King
Jul 16, 2011

Right now undead are at the top of my shit list. Undead are complete fuckers. Those geists are fuckers. Necromancers are fuckers. Necrosavants are big time fuckers. Skeletons aren't too bad except when they bleed everyone in the company. Zombos are at least not too bad.


I've been tinkering with the game files to try and make certain heroes more useful. Most of this is experimental to see how to make low tier heroes more viable on higher level dungeons. I've had the most success with the Leper. I have trouble figuring out how to make the jester, occultist and Crusader better and was hoping some of you might have some good ideas.

Leper's Chop now drives him forward 1, and can be used from pos 3. Intimidate now reduces enemy protection. Purge can stun targets.

Highwayman can now mark targets with tracking shot (self buff is unchanged), and grapeshot does a tiny bit more damage. No other changes to him.

Jester can now hit pos 1 with slice off.

Vestal's mace bash now can be used from pos 3.

Occultist's Hand's from the Abyss now causes blight and can be used from pos 3 (i don't care much for this and might change it).

Crusader now has 5% and 10% protection with armor levels 4 and 5 respectively. Zealous Accusation now hits pos 2 and 3 instead of 1 and 2. Bulwark of faith now adds riposte.

The Skeleton King fucked around with this message at 15:33 on May 13, 2017

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

Make occultist heal 2-3 or 2-3-4

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

The Skeleton King posted:

also, unless I can figure out how to fix the problem of riposte crashing the game, I can no longer use my save file (its stuck at the moment when the riposte activates) please help.

Did you define .riposte_skill in crusader.info.darkest? Man-at-Arms has an example.

Another crusader thought is to make Battle Heal hit rows 2-3-4 instead of 1-2-3, maybe stick some kind of minor buff on it, and add a self heal to one of his other powers so that he can finally play Front Row Healer.

Occultist is already pretty cool and good but one really easy way to make him better: there is an hp_heal_amount buff that allows you to add static heal modifiers (as opposed to the percent heal modifiers you see in the game.) Giving him a way to tack guaranteed health onto his heal skill would make him massively more useful.

The Skeleton King
Jul 16, 2011

Right now undead are at the top of my shit list. Undead are complete fuckers. Those geists are fuckers. Necromancers are fuckers. Necrosavants are big time fuckers. Skeletons aren't too bad except when they bleed everyone in the company. Zombos are at least not too bad.


i fixed the crusader problem. I forgot to link the animation to it.

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

Are heals over time possible in the code? Maybe add one to his bulwark of faith. To distinguish it from retribution

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
The ideas I have regarding character changes aren't easily moddable. Here's my Kokoro wish :

-Buffs and debuffs aren't always time based, many have a number of 'charges' that only count down when specific conditions are met. For Bulwark of Faith and Withstand they last for 3 hits that deal damage (so getting hit for 0 doesn't count it down). Inspiring Tune's stress resist lasts for 2 stress effects on the target. And so on. This keeps these abilities from being 'wasted' by always being in a position to make the most out of them. They only expire otherwise when hit by special monster abilities designed to dispell them, brought to deaths door, or afflicted. Being afflicted or deaths door debuff reduces the number of 'charges' by 1 (to a minimum of 1) on any new buffs.

-Plague Doctors emboldening vapors puts down a cloud of vapor in that position that lasts for 3 rounds. Instead of a speed buff it simply allows a hero to immediately take an action next if they get moved into the cloud (assuming they haven't gone yet) . So if you put it on position 1, your Highwayman can point blank shot for bonus damage and when he swaps positions with the Hellion, she'll not only get to use the bonus this turn but will also take her turn immediately after the Highwayman regardless of her speed. This lets you get a lot more mileage out of this buff and makes 'dancing' team comps work great.

-Marks last until certain conditions have been met, depending on the specific hero s mark. They might last until X damage was dealt, x crits, number of DoT ticks inflicted, the race of the target, etc. So like Sniper's Mark might last much longer when using ranged attacks against the target vs melee ones, and vulnerability hex might last longer vs eldrich monsters

-Hellion gets a rage system, using Adrenaline Rush, Battle Trance, and trinkets to build rage which gets spent on rage abilities. Her bleed out rage ability now unloads all the built up bleed stacks as direct damage but only if she has rage built up. This makes it a big finisher to finish off a boss or tough monster.

-AoE attacks can do different damage based on position. So yawp has the best chance to stun the front row, and diminishes further back depending on her rage. Breakthrough and Hew might work similarly. Suppressing Fire might work in reverse, having the biggest effect in the very back and diminishing as it hits closer enemies. It makes some AoE abilities more useful without making them OP.

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003

The Skeleton King posted:

Jester can now hit pos 1 with slice off.

can you make him hit himself

i like the leper/highwayman changes though. i think they're pretty powerful, but it's a nice change

Straight White Shark posted:

Occultist is already pretty cool and good but one really easy way to make him better: there is an hp_heal_amount buff that allows you to add static heal modifiers (as opposed to the percent heal modifiers you see in the game.) Giving him a way to tack guaranteed health onto his heal skill would make him massively more useful.

lol

look i hate the 0 heal as much as the next guy but you gotta admit it's pretty integral to the wyrd reconstruction experience

Jedah
Sep 1, 2001

YOU CAN NOT BUST THE KRUST
I've had much better luck with Vulnerability Hex + Weakening Curse than using Wyrd Reconstruction. At least the Occultist is a much more consistent healer if paired with an Arbalest using battlefield bandage.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬

Jedah posted:

I've had much better luck with Vulnerability Hex + Weakening Curse than using Wyrd Reconstruction. At least the Occultist is a much more consistent healer if paired with an Arbalest using battlefield bandage.

Definitely agree. Can't complain about those sick rear end 36+ crit Heals!

Maluco Marinero
Jan 18, 2001

Damn that's a
fine elephant.

DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:

look i hate the 0 heal as much as the next guy but you gotta admit it's pretty integral to the wyrd reconstruction experience

Yeah, nix the 0 heal rolls and all you've got is a slightly weaker divine grace that sometimes shoots up to full health restoration.

The Vestal is reliable but can't really outpace damage, the Occultist can outpace damage given the right rolls but can really struggle to pull your team off deaths door given the wrong ones, and that instability is kinda the point otherwise Occultist would probably always win.

That said I've been using various party members with a self heal ability more and more, as combined with a way to stun lock you can really recover an awful lot of health in hard wearing dungeons during the tail end of the fight. Just got Weald and Cove champion bosses to go and then I literally have nothing left to do but kill the big bad.

Torchlighter
Jan 15, 2012

I Got Kids. I need this.

The Skeleton King posted:

I've been tinkering with the game files to try and make certain heroes more useful. Most of this is experimental to see how to make low tier heroes more viable on higher level dungeons. I've had the most success with the Leper. I have trouble figuring out how to make the jester, occultist and Crusader better and was hoping some of you might have some good ideas.

Highwayman can now mark targets with tracking shot (self buff is unchanged), and grapeshot does a tiny bit more damage. No other changes to him.

Jester can now hit pos 1 with slice off.

Occultist's Hand's from the Abyss now causes blight and can be used from pos 3 (i don't care much for this and might change it).

Crusader now has 5% and 10% protection with armor levels 4 and 5 respectively. Zealous Accusation now hits pos 2 and 3 instead of 1 and 2. Bulwark of faith now adds riposte.

One of the things you could do is turn the Crusader into sort of an 'active healer' by allowing bulwark of faith to hand out PROT buffs to everyone. Doesn't have to be a large one, but tedamage saved over time adds up. A number of people have suggested a minor heal on another skill, and that could do some work.

As for Hands of the Abyss, making it usable from pos 3 and upping it's stun chance might be all you really need. Frankly a lot of the debuff skills either need a slightly higher damage mod, or a higher debuff chance, since they're required to undergo 2 different rolls to succeed.

I've never really been a fan of the Highwayman marking stuff, even with his pistol doing more damage. It seems like you're diluting the mark specialists for a character that doesn't really do anything different, and the bonus feels anemic for the highwayman. I've considered giving tracking shot a -PROT component, and turning him into a sort of hybrid GR/Houndmaster, which I think would work a little better. But you've already given the Leper some of that so maybe something different?

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
Is there any way to mod the Abominations 'transformation' mechanic into other abilities? I was thinking how cool it would be to give the Highwayman a melee and ranged 'stance' that he could switch between during battle. It would follow along with his itemization which either focuses on melee or ranged, letting you either specialize him (allowing you to have a Stabby Highwayman and a Shooty Highwayman in your roster) or keeping him versatile. This would also set him apart from the Grave Robber, who has a very similar kit, arguably better in the same role, as the Highwayman.

Alternatively Tracking Shot could allow you to use another ranged ability in the same round under certain conditions; perhaps if you hit and crit the target you could follow it up with Pistol Shot or Grapeshot on the same target. Or maybe make it a unique Riposite ability that only triggers if the Highwayman got hit by ranged attacks, call it 'Return fire' or something. You could Duelist's Advance, then next turn Return Fire and be counterattacking like crazy which would be another unique way to define the Highwayman.

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

Stance dance would be worse on a character with such specialized trinkets

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
I suppose the trinkets themselves would have to be adjusted accordingly then.

Another aspect that is neglected are weapon and armor upgrades. Right now they are straightforward but rather boring; there's a bit of variation with weapons depending on class but with armor it is just a consistent +5HP/+5 dodge each step of the way, regardless if the hero is a back row healer/caster, a tank, or a dodgy DPS. The upgrades are a boring one-size-fits-all approach to making your hero more survivable without taking into account what that hero actually does in battle. Here's some thoughts on how that could be changed:

Abomination: The upgrade is Chains+Toughened Hide, with separate bonuses depending on what form the Abomination is currently in.
Arbalest: Designed for shootouts, she gets a small amount of PROT vs enemy ranged attacks each level. Her weapon upgrades now also tack on a bit of extra damage vs marked targets (this stacks with Sniper Shot).
Man-At-Arms: Some of his HP is instead extra PROT, making him more effective vs direct attacks but a bit more vulnerable to DoT.
Vestal: Instead of extra dodge she gets stress and damage resist vs Unholy enemies.
Grave Robber: Gets more dodge and less HP as well as PROT/resistances vs traps. Her weapon upgrades have less maximum damage but increased chance of finding provisions in bags/chests/monster loot/etc
Highwayman: Also gets improved ambush chance/reduced chance to be ambushed if torch is under 50. This stacks with other Highwaymen.
Bounty Hunter: Gets slightly less base dodge but significant bonus dodge vs human enemies. His weapon upgrades also give bonus damage vs human enemies.
Jester: More base dodge and gives the party a small amount of stress resist (stacks with other Jesters). His weapon upgrades increase buff/debuff duration and debuff chance.
Occultist: Gets bonus PROT and dodge vs Eldrich enemies, but a bit less base HP/dodge in exchange. His weapon upgrades scale damage and crit up higher vs Eldrich compared to other targets.
Leper: Instead of dodge gets increased small increases in PROT, Deathblow resist, and Move resist.
Hellion: Increased dodge and stress resist vs Beast type enemies. Her weapon upgrades also give her melee attacks a small chance of doing a small amount of bleed, which stacks with other bleed skills.
Crusader: Gets less dodge but extra PROT and Virtue chance instead.
Houndmaster: Gets a bit of extra dodge vs Beast and Human targets, but less dodge vs Eldrich and Unholy. His weapon upgrade gives extra bonus damage vs bleeding enemies.
Plague Doctor: Less dodge but bonus % healing received. Her weapon upgrades apply a small amount of Blight damage to all damage-based attacks which stacks with existing Blight damage (abeit at a much lower chance to stick) as well as bonus % to healing.
Antiquarian: (assuming it was moddable) 1 extra inventory slot per upgrade level, accessed by clicking on her armor window. Her weapon upgrades improve the chance of getting a favorable result when interacting with Curios.

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

Anything vs Unholy is not great.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
Two other things that I hope get added (perhaps in the DLC):

-Locked Doors. Right now keys only have one use. But I could totally see them adding locked doors to disrupt ingress. Here's how it could work: A room with a locked door presents the following choices to the player,
Unlock the door with a key used in your inventory, allowing you to access the room normally. This makes the room permanently available for the rest of the mission.
Pick the lock, which uses the selected hero's Trap Disarm skill to attempt to open it without using a key. This has a chance of setting off a trap or triggering a monster encounter if it fails, and even if you pick the lock it will be re-locked later if you have to backtrack through the room.
Bash the door open, which permanently makes the room accessible but does HP/stress damage and reduces the torch. This also makes it impossible to ambush any monsters in the room.

There is a chance you could find a 'Skeleton Key' which is a special key that could be re-used on any locked rooms or chests. This is specific to that particular dungeon and is sold for some money when the mission is over. When scouting, locked rooms are indicated with a keyhole icon, but you do not know whether the room is empty, has a curio, or a monster encounter inside while the door itself is locked.

-Currently Trap Disarm skill becomes kind of overkill on some heroes, especially heroes kind of designed to disarm traps. It is only a binary chance, and one that only gives a bit of stress heal when successful. To encourage a bit of risk taking in the dungeon, I think traps should give you multiple options:
Disarm the trap as normal, using your Trap Disarm skill to determine the % chance
Reach for Loot, which not only disarms the trap but gives you a chance to find some loot or provisions hidden inside. This has a -50% trap disarm modifier.
Sabotage Trap, which rigs it to go off on enemies. This disarms the trap and any hallway encounters in that hallway can no longer ambush you. The monsters you encounter also take an initial bit of damage and a chance of a small amount of blight or bleed. The hallway tiles affected will flash blue to indicate the hallway is trapped vs enemies. This has a 75% trap disarm modifier.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

Anything vs Unholy is not great.

That is mainly because there seems to be less Unholy enemies than other classes of enemy. More Unholy enemies, or at least hybrids, would make anti-Unholy stuff more relevant. Though I have noticed that currently there doesn't seem to be abilities, quirks, or skills that give heroes protection vs a specific enemy type. A part of my ideas was to emphasize a Hero's utility against certain enemies. It makes sense that Houndmasters or Hellions would be used to fighting against animals, the Bounty Hunter studies human foes carefully, and so on.

Another change that I think would make sense would be to have Zealous Accusation give the targets a debuff that classed them as Unholy. I figure the Crusader is going to be particularly judgemental and it would make sense to accuse his foes of witchcraft. This gives him some synergy with other anti-unholy abilities.

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde

Panfilo posted:

Another change that I think would make sense would be to have Zealous Accusation give the targets a debuff that classed them as Unholy. I figure the Crusader is going to be particularly judgemental and it would make sense to accuse his foes of witchcraft. This gives him some synergy with other anti-unholy abilities.

This I like. Reminds me of Age of Wonders 3 and how the Theocrat condemned enemies as Heretics on the global screen before going into battle, giving their Devout units +damage against them.

So how's the modding scene for DD?

Torchlighter
Jan 15, 2012

I Got Kids. I need this.

Thyrork posted:

So how's the modding scene for DD?

It exists, although there's not a whole lot to it. Mods generally fall into 1 of 4 categories:
-Basic QoL upgrades, which is things like quest item stacking, or letting items stack more than maximum. These are pretty benign, mostly for convenience.
-Reskins. They are generally pretty horrible, unless you like dark souls/Geralt/pallete swaps?
- The biggest category is hero or enemy mods. They're pretty much a crapshot. Heroes are based on the skeleton of an existing class, generally, so they're pretty easy to make, you just need some modelling, but you'll probably have skill icons that are stolen from another class. That being said, they have fan models, and that means about half of them are sweaty nerd wank material. there's probably an okay class in there somewhere, but it'snot worth shovelling through.
- and finally, Rebalances. Trinket rebalances usually just take the negative traits off the trinkets, so ehhh. There's a trinket overhaul that rebalances the backer items,don't know if that's any good. Other than that, it's hero rebalances, and the community doesn't really have a consensus on what's over or under powered, or how to fix it.

Then there's Pitch Black Dungeon.DO NOT DOWNLOAD PITCH BLACK. It was made by a man who thought Darkest Dungeon needed to take even longer than it already does, and thought that 'making Darkest Dungeon harder' meant upping stats and then spiking the RNG to make combat even swingier (a reminder that RNG in Darkest Dungeon doesn't favour the player, and thus...)

In all seriousness, there's some ideas and concepts in Pitch Black that seem cool, but it reads like a 'hardcore, not for babbies' mod, and it's gimmicks would probably wear out in a normal playthrough given how prolific they are. Like the Corpse mechanics: Each area has unique mechanics for corpses. The ruins can resurrect corpses into new enemies. Except every single skeleton enemy does that, so instead of it being a gamble about if you can trust the pile of bones and focus elsewhere it's 'pack a corpse clear, or your fight takes twice as long, because the reanimated corpses aren't a threat, but have to be rekilled.'

Jedah
Sep 1, 2001

YOU CAN NOT BUST THE KRUST

Torchlighter posted:

Then there's Pitch Black Dungeon.DO NOT DOWNLOAD PITCH BLACK. It was made by a man who thought Darkest Dungeon needed to take even longer than it already does, and thought that 'making Darkest Dungeon harder' meant upping stats and then spiking the RNG to make combat even swingier (a reminder that RNG in Darkest Dungeon doesn't favour the player, and thus...)

This video is a good example of what you're talking about in Pitch Black. This was the first encounter Baer had in a Champion dungeon, lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1_Dkl-Ncxg&t=392s

He quit right after this run and started playing Radiant mode instead.

Bloodly
Nov 3, 2008

Not as strong as you'd expect.
The thing is, I remember hearing of Pitch Black back in Early Access, when there was no end-game beyond Champion Dungeons. So not much was doable. It's never really gotten off that, really.

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003

Panfilo posted:

stacks with other Jesters

is this one of those four-word horror stories

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
For sale: jester's hat. Never worn.

Nomadic Scholar
Feb 6, 2013


After watching that, is it even possible to "clear" the game with all the horseshit changes? Also I just got this on ps4, and am having a blast making bad decisions.

rydiafan
Mar 17, 2009


Nomadic Scholar posted:

After watching that, is it even possible to "clear" the game with all the horseshit changes? Also I just got this on ps4, and am having a blast making bad decisions.

In fairness, part of that video was his own drat fault. Yeah, he got RNG hosed, but the two heavy hitting enemies were both half dead when he retreated. That's way worse than one of them being all dead.

Sparticle
Oct 7, 2012

I like to think that Pitch Black Dungeon was designed around making the hyperbole in the negative steam reviews seem reasonable and accurate.

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

It's compared to Long War for xcom2 and my opinion of that game is it's kind of like DD but everything is just horseshit

The Skeleton King
Jul 16, 2011

Right now undead are at the top of my shit list. Undead are complete fuckers. Those geists are fuckers. Necromancers are fuckers. Necrosavants are big time fuckers. Skeletons aren't too bad except when they bleed everyone in the company. Zombos are at least not too bad.


I was going to say that Long War is reasonable but then I remembered that I modded the poo poo out of the game files to make it more sane.

So anyway, I got the Bulwark of Faith riposte to not crash the game anymore, but for some reason I have never seen it actually land a hit on anything. I'm not sure if its luck or something I need to change in the file. Also I have no idea how to connect a sound file to it (it uses the smite animation when countering but makes no sound).

I also made it so that the level 4 and 5 weapon for crusader now does 15% more damage against Eldritch. I felt that a boost against unholy just didn't have enough use but liked the idea. Not sure if this is too powerful since it isn't yet tested.

Highwayman no longer marks targets, so he's back to normal except with a slightly stronger grapeshot (10% more damage than before when fully upgraded). I find him useful as is.

Occultist is now back to normal except he can use Hands from position 3.

Vestal is now back to normal. I had no idea that mace bash was actually kinda strong so I took it away from position 3.

Leper is a cool guy who actually has value as a front line motherfucker now. He's still slow and bulky targets force him to waste a turn debuffing their protection with intimidate unless a BH or HM is with him, but he can actually fight them now.


As for poor Jester, I am at a loss as to how to help this guy. He isn't terrible, but there's just nothing I can think of to make him a good competitor for a spot on the roster.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
Perhaps the following with the Jester:

Almost all of his skills now buff your whole party. This makes more of his abilities more viable and gives him a unique role in simultaneously debuffing enemies and buffing his allies, making him a dedicated useful support.

All 'lute' based abilities now give the Jester bonus accuracy and debuff chance.


Solo: In addition to debuffing enemies this gives your own allies bonus speed in addition to his own.

Inspiring Tune: Also gives a little bonus protection and damage.

Battle ballad: also lowers enemy crit and damage by a small amount and has a small chance to randomly mark an enemy.

Dirk Stab: Gives the party bonus dodge.

Slice Off: Now lowers enemy prot, dodge, and accuracy by a small amount as well.

Harvest: Less base damage but much higher bleed chance and bleed damage/turn.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
One of the problems with a class like the Jester is how stuff scales.

Most stuff scales off damage. For heroes like the Bounty Hunter this is fine. But for support heroes it really suffers. Technically the Plague Doctor, Vestal, and Jester get the least utility out of damage but don't have much to make up for it. I know the Plague Doctor and Vestal are been good heroes regardless, but that has to do with the binary nature of some skills (stuns, AoE heals).

It's like the developers only went half way. They should have added an 'ability power' stat that scaled Heals, buffs, debuffs, and damage over time. Then heroes like the Jester can have season upgrades that increase not just their base damage but also ability power. It would also have the potential to make a lot of trinkets more balanced and versatile, granting things like +base weapon damage/-ability power or vice versa.

Relin
Oct 6, 2002

You have been a most worthy adversary, but in every game, there are winners and there are losers. And as you know, in this game, losers get robotizicized!
Where does the game keep all its saves? Because I notice that copying the userdata is insufficient for reliable scumming

Mzbundifund
Nov 5, 2011

I'm afraid so.

Relin posted:

Where does the game keep all its saves? Because I notice that copying the userdata is insufficient for reliable scumming

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata\(Whatever Your Steam ID is)\262060\remote

Does the game have cloud saves enabled? Could be messing up your scummin'

If you have the GoG version I can't confirm for sure, but according to Google it's

C:\Users\Relin (or whatever your name is)\Documents\Darkest

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
My proposed changes to Crusader:

Armor: Instead of +7HP/level, give him +5HP/level and +4% PROT. So at level 5 he's got only 53 base HP but 20% PROT built in.

Weapon: Each tier gives +3% extra damage vs Unholy, for a total of +15% at level 5.

Zealous Accusation: classifies the targets as 'Unholy' in addition to its normal effects. No additional effect vs undead. This is the keystone to his other abilities, allowing him to supercharge his damage with the proper setup.

Bulwark of Faith: Only works in position 1, but now gives a lesser prot bonus to all your allies as well.

Battle Heal: Heals more if the target is afflicted, has mortality debuff, stunned, or suffering any debuffs.

Stunning Blow: Keep the stun chance kind of low but also give it a considerable -speed debuff that only lasts 1 round. Vs Unholy the stun and debuff chance are increased. The idea is that even if the stun doesn't stick theres a good chance the debuff might, forcing the enemy to go last anyway. Win-win.

Zealous Vigil: If afflicted, also counts all enemies as Unholy for 4 battles.

Unshakeable Leader: Takes your current Stress Resist and PROT and matches the lower of the two to the higher. IE if you had 10% stress resist and 30% PROT you now have 30% stress resist and 30% PROT, or vice versa. Lasts 4 battles.

ZorajitZorajit
Sep 15, 2013

No static at all...
I definitely agree that it's weird that no classes get PROT from their armor upgrades. I'd be curious to hear from Red Hook about some of the mechanical decisions they made. Unless they wanted to preserve the D&D-like "armor as evasion" instead.

How would adding the Unholy tag compare to having Zealous Accusation mark and debuff? I agree that the former is more flavorful, but marking has much more synergy and the Occultist is precedent for a class that marks but doesn't really capitalize on it.

I'd like to know where you stand on making Battle Heal (possibly backed up by a Plague Doctor or Arbalest, herself possibly modded to allow her bandage all ranks) useful as a primary heal? I know there's a lot of talk about the desire for a front-row healer, and I'd personally like my roster not to need five vestals and two occultists.

I think if the Crusader was positioned between Tanking and Healing, his niche would feel better, even in the absence of significant damage output (outside maybe Smite vs Unholy targets.)

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
armor-as-health is 100% a mechanical thing and not a deep philosophy and rationale thing. prot is super powerful when it starts getting stacked so giving it to everyone would have been a huge nightmare.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
Prot is slightly less effective than health because it doesn't offer any mitigation from blight or bleed (often the most common killer). It also has a cap, like 75 percent or something.

I think it reasonable some heroes get it as their armor progression in lieu of dodge or HP.

Panfilo fucked around with this message at 18:16 on May 16, 2017

Relin
Oct 6, 2002

You have been a most worthy adversary, but in every game, there are winners and there are losers. And as you know, in this game, losers get robotizicized!

Mzbundifund posted:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata\(Whatever Your Steam ID is)\262060\remote

Does the game have cloud saves enabled? Could be messing up your scummin'

If you have the GoG version I can't confirm for sure, but according to Google it's

C:\Users\Relin (or whatever your name is)\Documents\Darkest
Nah there's some other check the game does, i copied over the entire folder in userdata and got a corruption message. As far as I can see it's not actually corrupt. However, I did have to copy twice once because "load from backup" went to a slightly older in town save. gently caress the hag btw

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Makaris
May 4, 2009
Armor, however, buffs healing. Since it means every HP goes farther.

I'm not a big fan of changes the classes too much. Just the truly egregious poo poo (like Bounty Hunters hook moves, and Crusaders self mark thing).

I still think the class imbalance, such as it is, would be better solved by having more encounter variety.

The worst thing you could do is, say, look at the Leper, understand what makes him kind of sucks now, and decide to give him a back rank damage move, or better damage projection. It's true that those holes in his kit are what holds him back... but that's the fault of types of encounters you face, and how samey they get. The lepers is awesome in spirit. I'd rather engineer types of fights, or a new zone, where his kit as-is shines, rather then just plugging the holes and calling it a day. Avoid at all costs making the classes homogeneous.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply