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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:______________/ exactly
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May 10, 2017 01:09
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Machai posted:Boy, tagging the runner with no interaction other than having more money. That won't be slightly OP Honestly, ignoring the hosed up templating, I kind of appreciate it. Compare it to SEA Source, which punishes a Runner for, you know, running. Just make the punishment happen regardless of runner action. Don't punish them for doing what the whole game is supposed to be about. Edit: To expand, the mere existence of SEA source is akin to the MTG card Standstill. Only less so, because when a Standstill is in play you know it is in play so you break it and move on. With SEA you have to act like it's a threat at all times.
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May 10, 2017 01:42
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Furthermore, it's not a hard trace to beat. Trace 1 means that the corp needs to have Runner Link + Runner Credits + 6 credits to fire it, and the runner needs less than 4 cards and no meat damage protection/tag avoidance on the field. Is it doable? Sure, but not likely on turn 2, because either the runner will stay at 4 or 5 cards, or ensure to have economic superiority, or be close enough to make sure the combo can't fire. This is arguably a worse card than Sea Source, because you can't ensure a kill with it on any runner that's playing with it in mind.
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May 10, 2017 04:47
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It'll slow runners down a lot, though, especially since Bryan Stinson is a card. If it's unwise to end your turn on less than 6 credits then setup is going to take longer.
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May 10, 2017 07:30
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Maybe I should just go back to putting Rabbit Holes in all my decks.
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May 10, 2017 08:18
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PJOmega posted:Honestly, ignoring the hosed up templating, I kind of appreciate it. Compare it to SEA Source, which punishes a Runner for, you know, running. Just make the punishment happen regardless of runner action. Don't punish them for doing what the whole game is supposed to be about. Disagree. SEA Source punishes the runner for running when they are unprepared. If the runner fears Scorch they can slow down, stop running, get their defenses up, keep track of the Corp credit pool. They can play around it. This is the heart of what makes Weyland Supermodernism such a fun matchup. This new card can be played around only if the runner has enough money. It's not impossible to do, but there are also Corps capable of making a whole lot of money by the early game. There is less of a way to play around it. The Breaking News & 24/7 combo was whack because there wasn't really any way to play around it. The Corp lands two tags on you regardless of what you do and don't do, and then you get Boomed. The only thing you can do is have counter-tech on the table. That was in a terrible design space.
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May 10, 2017 09:10
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"The runner loses a click on their next turn" has got to be some of the dumbest text possible to put on a card and the fact that Damon did it multiple times really drives home how incompetent he was at his job.
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May 10, 2017 15:15
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Static Equilibrium posted:"The runner loses a click on their next turn" has got to be some of the dumbest text possible to put on a card and the fact that Damon did it multiple times really drives home how incompetent he was at his job. Why, exactly? (I have a guess, but I'm curious what you think)
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May 10, 2017 15:18
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Because the effect literally removes your opponent's ability to take actions on their turn (albeit partially), if the card is at all playable, it is necessarily trying to establish some sort of lock-out/prison scenario. That means you basically have 3 possibilities any time you make a card like this: 1) the card is a trap card that is annoying to play against but ultimately bad. 2) the card is playable and you use it by trying to set up some sort of infinite combo where the runner never takes another click. 3) the card is playable and you use it by trying to make it so the runner effectively never takes another meaningful click (maybe through a combination with elp or a political asset or whatever). This is the worst of all possible worlds because now the runner has to sit there doing nothing because there's some small chance they could still win. None of these scenarios seem especially good (#2 is arguably kinda cool, but it's really hard to imagine a card which enables #2 without also enabling #3), and the effect of "i do nothing so you do nothing" is not novel or interesting enough to justify the risk of unleashing another heinous prison deck. Edit: admittedly I could be wrong, but especially given FFG's unwillingness to ban cards, I think it's probably good to avoid certain classes of resource denial effects, just because it's very hard to find a middle ground between terrible to play and terrible to play against. MtG has stopped printing good land destruction for a similar reason and I think the game is better for it. fomo sacer fucked around with this message at 15:58 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 15:38
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Well the folks on Reddit are jizzing over the idea of creating that infinite combo in CI, but the obvious problem with this is that they're playing CI.
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May 10, 2017 15:41
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I personally don't really care too much about infinite combos which win you the game on the spot (although I know some people detest them), I just think that if prison becomes the clear best deck again, it will almost certainly kill the game for good. I already suspect some version of prison Gagarin is the best deck right now anyways (I'll be doing some testing for nats this weekend and that's the deck we're all curious/concerned about), and I don't think it's great that cards which potentially support that style of play are being printed.
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May 10, 2017 15:49
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Static Equilibrium posted:Because the effect literally removes your opponent's ability to take actions on their turn, Did you miss the part where it's once/turn?
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May 10, 2017 15:50
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Good thing there aren't any other cards in the game which limit your opponent's clicks or make certain actions take extra clicks. Edit: you're right, though. I edited my post to be more clear.
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May 10, 2017 15:54
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Static Equilibrium posted:I think it's probably good to avoid certain classes of resource denial effects, just because it's very hard to find a middle ground between terrible to play and terrible to play against. MtG has stopped printing good land destruction for a similar reason and I think the game is better for it.
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May 10, 2017 16:20
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I don't think the existence of yog really makes it any more of a good idea to print cards which have a polarized range of effectiveness and are going to be best in a prison decks.
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May 10, 2017 16:28
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Prison decks are the worst thing to play against and if they keep making them even more effective I'm out.
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May 10, 2017 16:29
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Netrunner 2 when
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May 10, 2017 19:12
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StashAugustine posted:Netrunner 2 when As soon as sales fall
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May 10, 2017 20:05
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StashAugustine posted:Netrunner 2 when Is called L5R for some reason.
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May 11, 2017 01:50
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Prison decks turn the game's basic structure upside down. If you buy that "three phases of Netrunner" analysis, which I mostly do, then powerful late-game Runner decks like Dyper or Congress are prison decks in that there's little the Corp can do to stop them once they're set up. Inverting that could be fun and interesting design space, and it's hard to see (in theory) why it has to be bad. (No-one complains about rig-shooter decks even though generally in Netrunner it's the Runner who gets to trash the Corp's stuff). The trick is to somehow force prison decks to have big vulnerability windows in phase 1 and 2, which I guess is hard when most Corp cards aren't designed that way at all. edit: also False Lead doesn't see all that much play and in some ways has less counterplay than MAP does so I'm going to wait and see before complaining. Besides, Boggs seems pretty willing to jump on bad/OP cards quickly (Sifr, Rumour Mill). Zephro fucked around with this message at 03:43 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 03:15
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Zephro posted:Besides, Boggs seems pretty willing to jump on bad/OP cards quickly (Sifr, Rumour Mill). Comparing FFGs going completely dark for an extra three months and then dropping a typo-riddled 27mb PDF is night and day from WOTCs work clearly explaining their choices in regular b&r updates that sync with set releases.
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May 11, 2017 06:28
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:There was also a bunch of stupid poo poo he said in the podcast interview like wanting to keep it to 20 cards, an arbitrary number instead of"however many it takes" I thought he also said he'd be willing to change that if necessary. What other stupid stuff did he say?
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May 12, 2017 15:11
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Tirranek posted:I thought he also said he'd be willing to change that if necessary. What other stupid stuff did he say? My takeaway from the interview was that Boggs seems like a competent guy with good ideas about what makes the game fun, who recognizes he is not the best player in the history of netrunner and is willing to listen to the playerbase, but may be hamstrung by heinous office politics.
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May 12, 2017 15:14
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Static Equilibrium posted:My takeaway from the interview was that Boggs seems like a competent guy with good ideas about what makes the game fun, who recognizes he is not the best player in the history of netrunner and is willing to listen to the playerbase, but may be hamstrung by heinous office politics. Yeah I got that impression generally. He seems keen to fix future issues pretty quickly, which I think is good for this game. Players should in theory be way less salty about cards being restricted than they would in a booster pack model.
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May 12, 2017 17:23
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:There was also a bunch of stupid poo poo he said in the podcast interview like wanting to keep it to 20 cards, an arbitrary number instead of"however many it takes" The "20 cards" thing was an arbitrary number and he said as much in the interview - trying to limit the impact and mental bookkeeping required is a real thing. And yeah, comparisons to Wizards usually fall flat since it's comparing about 30 people on dedicated design/development/editing teams with several million dollars to three guys in a shed.
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May 14, 2017 02:02
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I'm just grateful he hammered Rumour Mill. Worst card ever. But then I have weird opinions and think cards like Film Critic and Employee Strike deserve MWLing as well because they're anti-fun silver bullets
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May 14, 2017 15:49
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Also, have some JNet stats for the three months to March: https://forum.stimhack.com/t/jinteki-net-game-stats-january-8th-march-6th/8683 Jinteki: Officially better than NBN. (Also PU did surprisingly well despite the generally lovely reception it got from pundits)
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May 14, 2017 17:12
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Is Palana good now that Rumor Mill is dead
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May 14, 2017 22:04
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It's decent, just runs into the issue that it's generally worse than HB glacier.
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May 14, 2017 22:06
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StashAugustine posted:Is Palana good now that Rumor Mill is dead No because HB Asset Spam is even better. Estelle Moon is for real the nuts.
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May 14, 2017 22:48
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Asset spam is straight up ruining my enjoyment of playing Netrunner.
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May 14, 2017 23:12
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Yithian posted:Asset spam is straight up ruining my enjoyment of playing Netrunner.
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May 14, 2017 23:28
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Yithian posted:Asset spam is straight up ruining my enjoyment of playing Netrunner. The cycle begins anew!
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May 14, 2017 23:34
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i like to run nets and steal agendas.
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May 14, 2017 23:49
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What's the natural predator of Asset Spam? Apocalypse? Scrubbers?
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May 14, 2017 23:54
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AgentF posted:What's the natural predator of Asset Spam? Apocalypse? Scrubbers? Used to be Whizzard and Rumor Mill, Now likely Whizzard and Apocalypse with the out of heap breakers and a way to trash your flipped cards. We have done this rotation a few times now of Asset Spam being too strong, then Anarch rising to counter it, and so on. I am not sure there is anyway to fix it without breaking the meta game entirely gain.
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May 14, 2017 23:58
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AgentF posted:What's the natural predator of Asset Spam? Apocalypse? Scrubbers? Depends the deck. Whizzard with some combination of slums/archives interface/hacktivist meeting and probably temujin contracts does very well against every asset deck (although it's not free by any means). Smoke beats basically every version of EtF asset spam by ignoring assets and locking out their ability to actually win by playing clot, political operative, and film critic. Congress-style decks are pretty favored against Gagarin, and I think nexus DLR decks are as well although I haven't really played those games enough to know for sure. I don't really know what's good against Jinteki asset decks aside from Whizzard just because of lack of testing, but I would guess congress kate is decent. CTM is basically dead so don't worry about it, and NEH asset spam is weak to Shaper as well. Steve Cambridge with just all the good criminal cards also did well against specifically the "Mooninites" decklist (EtF with Lakshmi, 2x Caprice, 1x Biotic, 3x 4/2, 3x 3/2, 3x GFI) in the limited testing my playgroup has done, but that could change (and I suspect he's worse against a deck with more fast advance options). edit: https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/39927/damonfork-store-champ-winner- posted:Here is a poem that I wrote about choosing which runner to play: fomo sacer fucked around with this message at 01:10 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 00:10
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Sec test/desperado criminal do very well against it as well similarly to smoke by hammering HQ/R&D hard with medium deep digs, and trashing key assets. Playing versus asset spam is an exercise in target prioritization. If it's really bad, run slums to ensure things stay dead.
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May 15, 2017 00:47
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Yithian posted:Asset spam is straight up ruining my enjoyment of playing Netrunner. 3x hacktivist plus maw
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May 15, 2017 02:45
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What Killer breaks Architect the cheapest (other than Femme token)? I think in the world of asset spam, it might be time for Apex to start Apocalypsing everything, which means I need a way to deal with the one un-trashable ICE out there.
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May 19, 2017 20:31
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