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GoldfishStew posted:Misogyny for laughs. If you really think the women in this movie are treated equally I really don't know what to tell you. Gamora is designated to a trite C story while Mantis' entire purpose is to be validated by a dude. Quill has the A story. Rocket has the B story. Gamora and Nebula have the C story. Drax and Mantis have the D story. Groot has no story at all. Mantis' purpose isn't validation, it's leaving the bad dad who raised her in order to become her own person. Because we gotta make sure we cover all the dad bases. It's a real shame that Grandpa Quill got cut and we don't get that dad story.
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May 15, 2017 03:41
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Why on earth would you think the media we consume and are presented wouldn't have a real world effect? What is the real world for you? Watching movies isn't part of your real world?
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May 15, 2017 03:42
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I always took Mantis as an example of just why Ego is a really loving awful parent, beyond the whole murdered the rest of his children bar Peter thing, Ego literally raised her from birth and basically treats her as an extension of himself instead of her own person. Funnily enough this is also essentially what he thinks about Peter, or at least wishes Peter would be. Ego has no room for anything but himself, he cannot conceive of life other than his own having meaning unless it's to improve his own. Drax, much like Yondu, is a counterpart to Ego as a father who has lost everything, but where Ego is a monster who murdered the love of his life and treats everyone, including his children whether biological or adopted, as lesser/extensions of himself. Drax, for all that he insults Mantis, never treats her as less than anyone else, in fact he treats her the same way he treats everyone. Or did you not notice that Drax basically insults and belittles everyone because he has no social grace whatsoever and is just kind of a blunt rear end in a top hat to people. Far more important for how Drax treats Mantis is that when he reminisces about his wife and child instead of shutting her out he lets her feel his feelings, that is the bit to show you that for all that Drax considers her ugly he trusts her with something that he very clearly keeps away from the rest of his life for the most part. It also gives some insight to his own pain and sorrow that the rest of his personality normally hides.
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May 15, 2017 03:44
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Mantis is only there to serve drax. Your last paragraph is all about him. Serve drax or serve to further exemplify why ego, another dude, is a bad parent to quill, main dude. GoldfishStew fucked around with this message at 03:56 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 03:51
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GoldfishStew posted:Nah, my criticisms that 1) this movie (and marvel movies in general) have very limited and lovely roles for women and 2) this movie leaned heavily on well worn tropes without being innovative are pretty thought out and, in the case of 1) re: women is pretty well documented and said more eloquently than I across various articles and blogs on the net. I'm sorry you like basic movies and are easily entertained by seeing the same stories told again and again with slightly different avatars. *GROOOOOAAAAN* Gamora and Nebula are two badass female characters. Fucks sake it's like some of you go out of your way to find things to be upset/angered over. Basically you're a loving pussy.
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May 15, 2017 04:15
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Barreft posted:*GROOOOOAAAAN* lol calm down pal. I liked the movie better than the first but it's gotten to a point where the basic pattern of this thread is: a criticism is posted, a bunch of the usual suspects defend the movie against any degree of criticism, someone* gets super salty and says "christ you people are dumb/autistic/looking for things to hate". *this has been you a few times, it's not a great look
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May 15, 2017 04:52
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Drax being an insulting dope might be a better OMG SO *problematic* hill to die on if he didn't openly take a poo poo on the white male lead in both movies. Declaring any comedy that could be read as being at the expense of any woman character ever *problematic* is also weirdly paternalistic. Strangely, I haven't met any actual women too stupid to get that we're supposed to laugh at Drax in these interactions. He's not presented as right, but as an alien weirdo who says inappropriate poo poo.
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May 15, 2017 04:53
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seriously though why did ego have to give his baby mama brain cancer? i liked that quill immediately went guns blazing once it sunk in but going straight from the twist to the action kinda left the 'why' hanging in the air
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May 15, 2017 04:54
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Brother Entropy posted:seriously though why did ego have to give his baby mama brain cancer? i liked that quill immediately went guns blazing once it sunk in but going straight from the twist to the action kinda left the 'why' hanging in the air Well, I used to play a lot of World of Warcraft and got really into it. When I realized it was interfering with my actual job I deleted my account. I'm pretty sure Ego was operating under the same mindset.
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May 15, 2017 05:05
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He basically saw her as a distraction who was threatening to derail his plans if he couldn't keep away. Which is not a great reason because he could have just waited until she died of natural causes and his "special" son was firmly on his side to execute his plans. Like staying on earth seems like the best course of action: you raise your son yourself and indoctrinate him without doing a bunch of poo poo that will explicitly make him your enemy. He seemed remarkably impatient for an immortal being. Chalk it up to being a weird planet brain and not thinking like us I guess.
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May 15, 2017 05:05
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Yakmouth posted:Well, I used to play a lot of World of Warcraft and got really into it. When I realized it was interfering with my actual job I deleted my account. I'm pretty sure Ego was operating under the same mindset. lol, yeah i guess i can accept that logic
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May 15, 2017 05:10
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Guy A. Person posted:He basically saw her as a distraction who was threatening to derail his plans if he couldn't keep away. Which is not a great reason because he could have just waited until she died of natural causes and his "special" son was firmly on his side to execute his plans. Like staying on earth seems like the best course of action: you raise your son yourself and indoctrinate him without doing a bunch of poo poo that will explicitly make him your enemy. I think he thought that if he stayed with her and spent an entire natural human lifetime loving her and then having to mourn her loss, he would run the risk of becoming too human to ever go through with his utterly inhuman plan, just as ultimately was the case with Quill.
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May 15, 2017 05:50
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He didn't love her. He didn't love anything. He's a sociopath. He gave her a drawn out painful death.
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May 15, 2017 05:54
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GoldfishStew posted:He didn't love her. He didn't love anything. He's a sociopath. He gave her a drawn out painful death. I believe he did feel some human love for her. But the part of him that was an immortal alien egomaniac won out. It's the opposite of Quill, who is briefly tempted by Ego's grand egomaniacal vision, but whose human love for his mother ultimately wins out. It's not all one or the other. Ego isn't a sociopath. He's a literal god who yearned to be human, succeeded to an extent almost accidentally when he met Quill's mother, but then decided he didn't quite like what he found, and so turned away. This movie dabbles in a lot of pure science fiction concepts. Ego's character (despite his name) can't be conceptualized simply as an allegory for real-world human psychological constructs. It can only be understood as something truly post-human.
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May 15, 2017 06:31
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As a celstrial being couldn't he have just straight up murdered her...quickly? Implanting a brain tumor so she could have a slow painful death is a super dick move, especially when a sudden brain hemorrhage would have worked just the same. No wonder Peter immediately went into kill mode.
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May 15, 2017 07:01
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Mental Hospitality posted:As a celstrial being couldn't he have just straight up murdered her...quickly? Implanting a brain tumor so she could have a slow painful death is a super dick move, especially when a sudden brain hemorrhage would have worked just the same. No wonder Peter immediately went into kill mode. The guy was all about tumours; it's what he was using on planets as well.
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May 15, 2017 07:24
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I really don't like comic book movies, the last two Marvel movies I saw were Guardians 1 and Deadpool before this, and I hated the later because for a movie about a character that was so much of an anti-thesis of comic book heroes it was still structurally the exact same as the rest of the Marvel films, just more vulgar. Guardians 1 was a fun sci-fi romp that didn't need to tie into the comics at all, a group of characters that initially hate each other but form into a family unit after struggling to achieve a common goal. I come from a pretty dark childhood with a very abusive father, and wasn't expecting this movie to hit those emotional chords so hard. I admittedly broke down when "Father & Son" hit even though I never had a Yondu, and I just got married a couple weeks ago with a very loving and caring mother and father in law. The way Quill snapped over the tumor line and the bit about not letting him make this choice really hit home for me in a lot of ways. I will say that this film made me really wanna go back and finish the Culture series of books. There was some genuine, really cool science fiction ideals explored that you never really see in movies nowadays. Finding out your father is a living planet who wants to consume all life in the universe and the whistle needle being controlled by Yondu's dick - he was basically loving everyone in that extended slaughter montage as well as the gold people being a bunch of rear end in a top hat gamers was really neat, weird, and not something I expected at all. Also oh my god Groot. That bit during the opening credits really had me emotionally hooked for the rest of the movie, with the rest of the crew popping in and out to save him was so genuine, especially with Rocket stopping him from eating that bug or lizard or whatever. I genuinely liked the first a lot and found this one to be a pretty fantastic sequel, a genuinely weird and emotional film that had a lot going on, but I never felt like it was cheap with how it went about it.
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May 15, 2017 09:50
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Mental Hospitality posted:As a celstrial being couldn't he have just straight up murdered her...quickly? Implanting a brain tumor so she could have a slow painful death is a super dick move This is actually part of Ego's plan. Gamora herself says Quill has never gone back to earth since, even though he has the ability and ease to do so. Ego did it cruelly because he wanted to make sure Quill would more easily relinquish all ties to his home planet. Ego also thought that putting Quill through that much pain at losing a mother would make him more susceptible to gaining a father and accepting his ideas more readily. It feels very calculated.
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May 15, 2017 09:55
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Mental Hospitality posted:As a celstrial being couldn't he have just straight up murdered her...quickly? Implanting a brain tumor so she could have a slow painful death is a super dick move, especially when a sudden brain hemorrhage would have worked just the same. No wonder Peter immediately went into kill mode. Perhaps she was precancerous and he juts started the process a lot sooner. As well as having making Peter emotionally vulnerable and easier to manipulate/
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May 15, 2017 10:02
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Mental Hospitality posted:As a celstrial being couldn't he have just straight up murdered her...quickly? Implanting a brain tumor so she could have a slow painful death is a super dick move, especially when a sudden brain hemorrhage would have worked just the same. No wonder Peter immediately went into kill mode. Like the mewling coward he was, Ego couldn't stand to see her die in front of him. A brain tumor was a guaranteed time delayed kill. Taintrunner posted:
I'd sort of deaf but I am relatively certain that Yondu explicitly says he steers it with his 'heart' dude.
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May 15, 2017 11:49
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Brother Entropy posted:seriously though why did ego have to give his baby mama brain cancer? i liked that quill immediately went guns blazing once it sunk in but going straight from the twist to the action kinda left the 'why' hanging in the air Because he loved her and that love was keeping him from his goal of dominating the universe. I think he said that outright .
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May 15, 2017 13:56
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The character named ego loved himself the most. You see.
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May 15, 2017 14:08
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This is like Man of Steel levels of people not being able to understand stuff that's literally told directly to the viewer lol E: Can we go back to whining about Marvel color grading? At least that's a real thing that's real even if it was run into the ground. sean10mm fucked around with this message at 14:55 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 14:51
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Mental Hospitality posted:As a celstrial being couldn't he have just straight up murdered her...quickly? Implanting a brain tumor so she could have a slow painful death is a super dick move, especially when a sudden brain hemorrhage would have worked just the same. No wonder Peter immediately went into kill mode. Since Ego never met Peter before, I assume he gave her the tumor after she was pregnant, then left the planet. So the tumor would be a time delayed kill to allow her to give birth to Peter and raise him to a certain age, at which point Yondu would abduct and deliver him. And he did love her, in some twisted way. But was also a coward, like was said. He saw her and his love as an obstacle to his goal, and instead of embracing her and love and giving up his goal, he decided to remove her completely from that equation.
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May 15, 2017 15:02
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I really liked Pom Klementieff's take on Mantis. She steals almost any scene she's in with her childish enthusiasm for the interactions with actual people. Before the Guardians show up, it's almost like Ego's never communicated anything to her other than "I want to sleep now". I think she's an interesting character because each of the Guardians is a broken person with sordid backgrounds and multiple levels of emotional baggage and/or trauma. They're all assholes in their own way, but they understand that they're connected and have each other--but that doesn't take their guards down or allow them to show vulnerability, they all have to have the biggest dick because they're the toughest of the group. Mantis, on the other hand, is their biggest weakness, because with a simple soft touch of the hand, she can not only read their biggest pain, but can feel it with them and relate to them. She's like the Guardians personal therapist. I'm interested to see where this dynamic goes in future movies. Drax is a rude rear end in a top hat, that's his character. I don't think how he treats Mantis is a good thing, it's not a good thing, but she's also the only character in two films that he allows himself to be most emotionally vulnerable with, letting her feel the pain/sorrow of losing his wife and daughter (something he can barely physically emote). The closest Drax gets to that level of emotional connection is when he talks about meeting his wife to Peter, another important scene for Drax's character because he's wrong--Gamora is a dancer, she just hides it well. Even that scene is more for Peter than Drax.
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May 15, 2017 15:24
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I think the biggest issue I had with the film was a bit of a vauge structural storytelling thing. Basically, after they meet Ego there's a really weird period where everyone defers their questions until later in the movie seemingly only for the sake of dramatic reveals. Nobody is asking "why" when they should be, so there's a weird mid-act lull of confusion when they go to Ego's planet with little explanation and then just sort of vaguely hang out there with no particular goal or any information beyond the introduction. It's a nice scene-setter and a good get-to-know-you part of the plot, but it feels a little aimless and kind of jarring for the characters to just sit around until the next plotdump. It's notably odd for a film genre savvy enough to instantly have Gamora pick up on Mantis hiding something and immediately question her on it instead of just teasing it out to the audience with some boring dramatic irony. sean10mm posted:This is like Man of Steel levels of people not being able to understand stuff that's literally told directly to the viewer lol
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May 15, 2017 16:02
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Gamora immediately asks why and has a bad feeling about it.
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May 15, 2017 16:04
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euphronius posted:Gamora immediately asks why and has a bad feeling about it. Not only that, but as soon as Ego offers to take them to his planet, Quill says "No, this is stupid, he's not my dad, this is a sketchy situation, what if he's evil?" and Gamora takes him into the woods and convinces him to give it a try (which is really sweet of Gamora) and offers to kill Ego if he turns out to be bad. Edit: As soon as the first hint of This Isn't Right, Gamora is more than happy to leave, but then Peter's too busy being seduced because he finally has someone who will play catch with him, knows Earth culture and songs and is willing to call him son and Star-Lord, which no one else (not even Yondu) will do. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 16:16 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 16:14
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(EDIT: I have no idea what the spoiler rules are right now?) Again, my issue is not related to them wondering if there's secret Evil Afoot, it's the fact their entire trip to the planet seemed to be to just...hang out and wait for Kurt Russel to talk to them about things. It's oddly passive. You'd think Peter Quill would be curious, asking Ego what he does with his time, instead of sitting in his room listening to his jams until the guy decides it's time to explain it. Or that a suspicious, protective Gamora might, again, ask what they're actually doing there in the days and nights between Kurt Russell interactions.
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May 15, 2017 16:30
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Your questions will be hand waved away by fanboys who are just happy to have comic book movies, quality be damned.
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May 15, 2017 16:31
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Their ship was being repaired. They didn't have a ship.
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May 15, 2017 16:32
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VagueRant posted:(EDIT: I have no idea what the spoiler rules are right now?) I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure they're only on Ego's planet one night before poo poo hits the fan. Gamora says to Groot "We'll be back in three days", and the movie seems to stick with that structure, but I could be wrong.
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May 15, 2017 16:33
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If it was the avengers or the justice league or something questions about why they wanted to sit around and do nothing would be good questions. Nothing about the GotG makes them seem like they's get a vacation then start it off day one with investigations and sluth work. They got invited to quinn's rich dad's mansion, everyone on the team is the type that would jump in the pool or take a nap for a while before searching to see if the mansion had any secret lairs. Like even the "serious" members like drax aren't the investigation type.
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May 15, 2017 17:33
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VagueRant posted:(EDIT: I have no idea what the spoiler rules are right now?) They showed Mantis helping Ego sleep when they got into the ship. So it's easy to assume that the moments they share alone are because Ego is sleeping. They don't have to show every single interaction. And it's understandable that Peter would need time to process the information he's given, rather than immediately question Ego about everything. We don't see the conversations about what Ego eats or how he breathes, because it's not important.
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May 15, 2017 17:51
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LeJackal posted:I'd sort of deaf but I am relatively certain that Yondu explicitly says he steers it with his 'heart' dude. Early in the movie after the crew crash lands and Gamora is chewing out Rocket and Quill she says if you had just used the head between their ears setting up this joke. Quill tells Yondu well I thought as hard as I could and to create the ball of light, Yondu jokes that that I wasn't controlling the needle with my brain, and gets cut off. It's a penis.
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May 15, 2017 18:07
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Taintrunner posted:Early in the movie after the crew crash lands and Gamora is chewing out Rocket and Quill she says if you had just used the head between their ears setting up this joke. Quill tells Yondu well I thought as hard as I could and to create the ball of light, Yondu jokes that that I wasn't controlling the needle with my brain, and gets cut off. It's a penis. No. It's his heart.
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May 15, 2017 18:25
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Taintrunner posted:Early in the movie after the crew crash lands and Gamora is chewing out Rocket and Quill she says if you had just used the head between their ears setting up this joke. Quill tells Yondu well I thought as hard as I could and to create the ball of light, Yondu jokes that that I wasn't controlling the needle with my brain, and gets cut off. It's a penis. Oh my god are you serious? This might be a new low for goon comprehension.
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May 15, 2017 18:26
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Taintrunner posted:Early in the movie after the crew crash lands and Gamora is chewing out Rocket and Quill she says if you had just used the head between their ears setting up this joke. Quill tells Yondu well I thought as hard as I could and to create the ball of light, Yondu jokes that that I wasn't controlling the needle with my brain, and gets cut off. It's a penis. 
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May 15, 2017 18:28
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Taintrunner posted:Early in the movie after the crew crash lands and Gamora is chewing out Rocket and Quill she says if you had just used the head between their ears setting up this joke. Quill tells Yondu well I thought as hard as I could and to create the ball of light, Yondu jokes that that I wasn't controlling the needle with my brain, and gets cut off. It's a penis. So what stopped you from watching the last forty minutes of the movie? Because he repeats the statement a second time and ends the sentence very clearly saying it's his heart.
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May 15, 2017 18:35
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When I was a kid my dad would constantly joke about how God gave you two brains and only enough blood to use one of them, the other being between your legs. The big argument at the beginning ends with Gamora calling out Rocket and Quill for fighting over who has a bigger dick when they needed to work together as a team. For all the dick and poop jokes in this movie, I don't think it's too extreme a read to see this joke set up and payoff in us learning that Yondu is wielding a phallic weapon that is literally shooting out and penetrating his enemies before returning back to him in a docile (flaccid) state. It's just a funny dick joke. Franchescanado posted:So what stopped you from watching the last forty minutes of the movie? Because he repeats the statement a second time and ends the sentence very clearly saying it's his heart. Oh. Maybe I missed it, ah well.
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May 15, 2017 18:38
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