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OAquinas posted:Dietrich was damned solid too. Eiger and Butz were kinda weak though, yeah--especially when compared to a literal psycho with a murderbot. Eiger was good if she got a rifle for midrange. So, in the director's cut, basically.
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May 15, 2017 21:10
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is0bel is the worst character because she straight up killed her buddies cat because he was mean to her on the internet.
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May 15, 2017 22:13
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King Doom posted:is0bel is the worst character because she straight up killed her buddies cat because he was mean to her on the internet. deckers are the worst
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May 15, 2017 22:33
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Hang on, she didn't do that.Ze Pollack posted:deckers are the worst Poil fucked around with this message at 22:49 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 22:44
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OAquinas posted:Dietrich was damned solid too. Eiger and Butz were kinda weak though, yeah--especially when compared to a literal psycho with a murderbot. Dietrich was the former punk rocker that was still headbutting the authority even past middle age, correct? Dragonfall's the only one that I never really finished. I might have to check out the Director's Cut.
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May 15, 2017 23:25
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citybeatnik posted:Dietrich was the former punk rocker that was still headbutting the authority even past middle age, correct? Hey, he had character. And he was a damned good support guy--haste
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May 15, 2017 23:44
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OAquinas posted:Hey, he had character. And he was a damned good support guy--haste Oh, I'm not disagreeing with him having character - he's legit the only one that I recall from that game. Like, my post was meant to be less "man look at this" and more "HOLY poo poo THIS IS AWESOME". After all, just remembering him is enough to make me want to play again.
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May 15, 2017 23:47
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Dietrich was the best. "I was the front man in a punk band." "So you can sing?" "Did you hear me say 'punk band'? gently caress no I can't sing!"
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May 15, 2017 23:52
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Dietrich is so into Fighting The Man that it's not only his favorite pastime, it's literally the source of his magical power.
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May 15, 2017 23:55
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Kanfy posted:Sorry, this isn't an update yet as I've been a tad busy and fell ill on top of that, I'm just here to mention that a collection of all three Shadowrun games is 80% off over at Humble store. Thanks for the heads up! I just finished DMS because of this thread and was about to get Dragonfall from GOG, but now I can pick up everything much cheaper. Just one question: is it worth starting as a decker in Dragonfall? 'Cause I started as a decker in DMS and, well... Protip: don't start as a decker in DMS. Maybe don't even bother with decking at all except for where it's mandatory. DGM_2 fucked around with this message at 18:29 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 00:04
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Starting as a decker is fine but I also thought that of dms. Did you completely ignore combat stats? That said dragonfall and hong kong are much more team focused where you'll always have a full team of four for missions, so a utility character for your pc is easier than in dms. Alternatively, they both give you free deckers if you dont want your pc to bother
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May 16, 2017 00:20
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FoolyCharged posted:Starting as a decker is fine but I also thought that of dms. Did you completely ignore combat stats? No, I played a decker/rigger and did fine in combat with the drones. The problem is: 1) You don't even get the chance to enter the matrix for the first few hours and you can buy a deck by then anyway, so getting almost anything besides a deck from Jake's Stash would have been better. If I were doing that combo again I'd start as a rigger for the free drone and pump my decking skills later as I needed them. 2) You get a decent NPC decker for the occasions where the plot requires you to enter the matrix, and where the plot doesn't require it there's usually not much reason to go digital besides extra money. 3) Minor final mission spoiler: decking is useless in the final mission. Not that I recall the game giving me any warning about that. You won't be happy if you left your new toy behind to make space for your deck.
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May 16, 2017 00:47
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DGM_2 posted:3) decking is useless in the final mission. Not that I recall the game giving me any warning about that. You won't be happy if you left your new toy behind to make space for your deck.
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May 16, 2017 01:02
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OAquinas posted:Hey, he had character. And he was a damned good support guy--haste It took me way too long to figure out that I could loan weapons and spells to my allies. It especially fixes any problems you might have with your casting buddies since they don't always upgrade to the best spells they could use with their given skills. So buying a better heal spell and maybe some form of armor shredding is great.
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May 16, 2017 01:11
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FoolyCharged posted:Regardless, she has an ability to just give herself more ap at no cost. That alone makes her super good. Glory's problem is that she can't hit the broadside of a barn with her pistol or even with her claws on the hardest difficulties. She's a jack of all trades - sucker of all. I like the character but she does not scale well....at all. I never understood (ok I understand, but his flaws are strengths to me) the Blitz hate, he makes me laugh + he's the single most competent decker the games ever give you (at least at the decking part, Is0bel is definitely better in meat space). He's almost as competent as a PC decker which is something not even Is0bel can claim since he at least upgrades his deck to a max AP model.
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May 16, 2017 05:13
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An aside, I love that Hong Kong introduces different decks. The Novatech Slimcase is just a glorious thing.
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May 16, 2017 05:31
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The actual best Dragonfall companion is Lucky Strike and her not being a proper crew member is the only thing holding her back from being a no-brainer addition to every mission especially early on.
Kanfy fucked around with this message at 05:56 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 05:53
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mauman posted:
Buzz, on the other hand, will never, EVER pass an optional decking check or be capable of handling combat in the matrix. And, again - this is a part of the design in Dragonfall. Party members are supposed to be worse than the PC would be at whatever, so that you don't feel bad about picking up a role an NPC is already handling. Reversed in HK, to much acclaim.
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May 16, 2017 06:06
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Xander77 posted:You must be playing with some sort of mod that reverses character points. Is0bel is a better Decker than you, unless you focus exclusively on decking, neglecting combat entirely. No, I'm not. 1. Is0bel doesn't get a max AP rig....EVER. 2. Blitz (assuming you take the decker upgrades, and why the hell wouldn't you?!) has 8 decking and a max AP rig by end game. That's nearly as good as a PC decker, since the max decking in this game is 9. Is0bel never maxes out either so that can't be held against him. Hell, the fact he gets a free Fairlight is a huge bonus to use him versus being a decker yourself, since that poo poo costs tons of money. Plus Blitz can cover most of the optional decking things that actually matter. Sure he can't cover them all, but he can deal with most of them. If you don't like blitz due to his character, then fine. I find him endearing but I understand why other's can't stand him. Downplaying his competency is silly when the numbers say otherwise. The only thing he's missing at end game are a few cheap programs/esps to supplement his abilities. Otherwise he's golden when it comes to decker combat. Now, I'm NOT saying that Is0bel isn't competent when it comes to decking. What I am saying is that any problem that Blitz has is fixable by the player (programs and ESPS)*. Is0bel's problems are NOT fixable since she refuses to let players upgrade her rig. Ultimately if you use all available resources, Blitz is the better decker. Argue all you want but ultimately you only have (bad) opinions, I have in-game stats. *Is0bel has this problem too, but it's fixable just like it is for Blitz. Make of that what you will. Kanfy posted:The actual best Dragonfall companion is Lucky Strike and her not being a proper crew member is the only thing holding her back from being a no-brainer addition to every mission especially early on. Oh yeah, that's the other problem with Glory. There's a character that fills her role in every way but better in the form of Lucky Strike. mauman fucked around with this message at 07:35 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 06:22
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That psycho in Hong Kong whose name I've forgotten is great, he seems so warm and pleasant up until he shares his secret with you, after that his friendliness just becomes really unsettling.
Zeniel fucked around with this message at 12:34 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 12:29
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So what's the deal with Lucky Strike? I tried using her once after I saw her actually existing in the overworld at the bar in the hub area of Dragonfall and her having a minor conversation, but then she never had anything to say after that. I assume she's a high-level backer reward or something?
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May 16, 2017 15:10
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Shoeless posted:So what's the deal with Lucky Strike? I tried using her once after I saw her actually existing in the overworld at the bar in the hub area of Dragonfall and her having a minor conversation, but then she never had anything to say after that. I assume she's a high-level backer reward or something? One of the companions in Hong Kong was with her in a squad before going to hong kong. Basically shes there to be a refrence to Hong Kong.
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May 16, 2017 15:18
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Xander77 posted:And, again - this is a part of the design in Dragonfall. Party members are supposed to be worse than the PC would be at whatever, so that you don't feel bad about picking up a role an NPC is already handling. Reversed in HK, to much acclaim. Huh. I guess that's why Glory never really seemed to be able to keep up with Enflamme, my chromed-out murder-adept, during my runthrough of Dragonfall on Very Hard. Then again, expecting a party member to keep pace with a monster that ended up with 12 Strength might have been a bit ridiculous. Is it a general thing that if you're playing on the hardest difficulty, the PC starts out being the weakest of the group and eventually turns into the strongest? N, my character for my Dead Man's Switch runthrough, started out being somewhat easily murderable within a single round of enemy fire, but ended up a 10 Willpower, 10 Spellcasting, 12 Charisma mage of death, fire, and talkyness that dealt with the endgame with ease. Same with Enflamme, my Dragonfall character. She started out needing at least one, if not two revival items per run because she kept getting torn up by enemies with superior accuracy, but by the end of it, she was taking hits like nobody's business and punching people to death with ease, and she didn't even need much of the adept spells (good thing too, since that means I could shove more chrome into her). Also, Blitz is worth it just for his trust mission.
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May 16, 2017 20:38
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mauman posted:I never understood (ok I understand, but his flaws are strengths to me) the Blitz hate, What you're talking about was solved in Director's Cut - if I remember right, prior to that he didn't get those level-up boosts and his stats never grew appropriately. In original DF, he really was that bad. I imagine that's where a lot of the hate comes from. Now personally, I've played DF and HK multiple times both as a decker and as a not-decker and I much preferred is0 as a teammate decker regardless of stats. It's all about context so I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I don't agree.  TheMcD posted:Is it a general thing that if you're playing on the hardest difficulty, the PC starts out being the weakest of the group and eventually turns into the strongest? assuming you know how to optimize your karma, yeah, I'd say so. I feel like teammates usually have one or more of better stats, better gear, and special abilities to lean on at the start, but eventually you outgrow that. This lends some credence to one of DF's characters critiques of the PC in a meta way, amusingly. Shoeless posted:So what's the deal with Lucky Strike? I tried using her once after I saw her actually existing in the overworld at the bar in the hub area of Dragonfall and her having a minor conversation, but then she never had anything to say after that. I assume she's a high-level backer reward or something? If you don't piss her off during the first conversation she'll have 2-3 more with you but other than that, she's there as a merc you can hire and a nice tie-in nod to HK in one of those later conversations. Psion fucked around with this message at 22:02 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 21:55
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Psion posted:What you're talking about was solved in Director's Cut - if I remember right, prior to that he didn't get those level-up boosts and his stats never grew appropriately. In original DF, he really was that bad. I imagine that's where a lot of the hate comes from. Funny thing is I was an original backer so I played the original version. Judging Blitz on that though is a bit unfair. I do like Is0, she has some pretty great moments. I guess I just like them both, and as such never see the point in playing as a decker (unless you want to go rig/deck and while that's difficult but possible in Berlin, good loving luck doing that in Hong Kong  )I was just annoyed that Xander was implying that I was playing a mod which is why I came off a little testy. TheMcD posted:Also, Blitz is worth it just for his trust mission.  You have good taste. mauman fucked around with this message at 11:14 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 02:18
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I really hope this lp gets to that one. Iys great
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May 17, 2017 02:27
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Yeah I want to keep talking about DF but maybe that's for another thread because we're still in Returns  Speaking of post-launch stat changes though, didn't Paco see some? It's been a while but I remember him being really bad and/or not even getting the Uzi III initially and being buffed up in a patch to make him a little less useless? I'm not sure, anyone remember that?
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May 17, 2017 02:47
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TheMcD posted:Also, Blitz is worth it just for his trust mission. And that one's worth doing just for his theme, it's amongst my favorite ambient tracks in the series. FoolyCharged posted:I really hope this lp gets to that one. Iys great I'd like to get to it eventually too but I'll admit it's also a tad intimidating, there's a whole lot of game there and Returns is already a fair amount of work despite not being super long. I wonder how many updates DF would take in total. I only recently noticed that there had been an LP attempt for it at one point but it doesn't look like it got very far, mostly due to all the text. Anyway, I'm still kinda sick but I'll try to have an update up soon, tomorrow at the latest. Hope y'all like dialogue, coz we'll mostly be flapping gums for a while.
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May 17, 2017 10:20
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Kanfy posted:Hope y'all like dialogue, coz we'll mostly be flapping gums for a while. This series in a nutshell.
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May 17, 2017 11:29
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the only time I ever plyed actual shadowrun it was a Play by Post and we had a guy who [I think] Lived in a dilapidated Disney store, so when we went on a run we had this crazy motherfucker with us, wearing a goofy head with a lead pipe and a hardon and screming "IT'S GOOFY TIME" Like that one meme. [Edit: Had to describe picture because TIMG wasn't working] Siegkrow fucked around with this message at 07:25 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 22:26
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Psion posted:What you're talking about was solved in Director's Cut - if I remember right, prior to that he didn't get those level-up boosts and his stats never grew appropriately. In original DF, he really was that bad. I imagine that's where a lot of the hate comes from. I guess it's good you don't have to roll a Decker with those changes.
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May 18, 2017 13:53
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Seeing as I've apparently been afflicted by some kind of a concentration-sapping permaplague, I decided to cut this update in half. The second half's mostly done already but I don't want to end up using a rushed version I haven't looked over properly. It would've been pretty long and dialogue-heavy so this probably works better anyway.
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May 18, 2017 20:13
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Part 11a - Meeting the Locals   Moooom, we're home!   .jpg) I'm sorry, Mrs. Kubota. I had a run that went... bad. So ka! I can see that, your arm is a mess. Was this your crusade again? Do not answer. It will only upset me further. You caused me to worry about you, Coyote, and that distracted me from my business. Hai, Mrs. Kubota. My apologies again. Cherry, take her downstairs to Dr. Castle. Yes, ma'am. And tell Castle to put something new and shiny where that arm used to be. Mrs. Kubota, I can't afford a cyberarm... I am aware of your financial situation. When you are healed, we will discuss the concept of "giri" - the debt of honor. Now go. Bleed elsewhere. Yes, ma'am.Coyote and Cherry Bomb walk off.   She rewards us with 1,000 nuyen, not too shabby at all.  I am honored, Mrs. Kubota. Thank you. You are most welcome. And I offer more than simple lodging. You will find that there is more to the Union than meets the eye. Well, that's not exactly what they say. Dropping most of the slang in the later games, even if it was due to the change of location, wasn't a huge loss. This place is a safe house too? Indeed. Normally, I require a percentage of the runner's income for the use of this facility but as I said, you are family now. Consider it on the house. To gain entrance, play G-A-F-F-C on the piano.After this we can ask her a few more questions. Is Mr. Delilah here tonight? Yes, he's in the back bar. That's usually where he does business. You mentioned Coyote's crusade. What is it? With weapon skills that low, I'm surprised it took this long for something to go wrong. If you don't mind me asking, how did you get involved in all this? I'm a former runner. Now, I provide a safe haven and a marketplace for runners who need a trustworthy place to congregate and do business. Are any Johnsons or Fixers here tonight?(Mr./Mrs.) Johnson is a common pseudonym used by corporate employers who hire Shadowrunners. The exact moniker used varies depending on which part of the world you're in. In addition to Mr. Delilah, you may wish to speak to Van Graas. He is often stage-side. Van Graas is most often a 'receiver of found articles' but he occasionally has work. Thank you, I'll be going now. Sure enough, we find the man short ways away.  Mrs. Kubota said you're a Fixer. [He still hasn't looked at you. He's going a mile a minute.] Nothing for you tonight. Sorry. I'm doing a thing right now. Important thing. Talk to you later. We do have those gems from earlier, but just selling them off probably wouldn't please this Delilah guy who asked Coyote to steal them in the first place.  Back in the back, Johnny just repeats what Kubota said about the piano (which is right next to him) so we'll chat with Kluwe instead.  Paco and I tracked her down. Always wondered what she saw in him, but I guess he ain't all bad. I'm just glad she's back, couldn't stomach losing anyone else so soon after what happened to Sam.I'm pretty sure that with a CH of 8 all he needs to do is keep picking the Charisma checks in their conversations and they'll be together forever. You're just a big old sheepdog, aren't ya? Not the comparison made of most trolls, but I'm happy to defy expectations. Mind if I ask you a few questions? Haven't minded so far.Let's hope it stays that way, anyone who doesn't enjoy answering random questions will probably get sick of us real fast. You hear anything else about Sam's death? People are saying it was the Ripper. But people say a lot of things about what they don't know, or what they don't understand. How long have you been working for Mrs. Kubota? I crawled in here after I gobli... after I Awoke. Mrs. Kubota took me in and gave me a job. I've been here ever since.He was going to say "goblinized" which is the term used for people who turned into orks and trolls back in '21. Do you have to pay extra for a manicure on hands that big? Sounds extremely unhygienic. I should be going. Catch you round.Afterwards we take a look at the piano.  We can inspect it further:  We can play "Chopsticks" on it:  Screw you janitor guy. Finally, we can play the notes Kubota told us about :  G-A-F-F-C is apparently a reference to the film 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind'. Down we go.  (For whatever reason, this track is not present in the official soundtrack at all. It also sounds a bit like a callback to some older track, but I'm not sure which one.)  Talking to Dr. Castle there is our primary objective, but let's look around first.  The northern part of the safe house is our local shopping center. The man behind the counter is Eric the outfit merchant we met earlier, but the other three are new acquaintances. Let's start from the left.   Finally, someone who speaks our language. Upon request David can provide us with a bunch of poorly-concealed tutorials about decking, but let's just take a look at what he's selling.  The first cyberdecks  Took a while, but then we haven't had any use for one up to this point anyway. Having one is required for entering the Matrix and it takes up one weapon slot. Higher Decking skill allows the equipping of better decks.There's no real reason to ever buy the CTY-360 unless you're just lightly dabbling in decking and simply don't have the skill for the Kraftwerk-1. Going from 2 AP to 3 AP is worth the extra ¥250 by itself.  Combat in the Matrix is almost identical to normal combat, and Expert System Programs or ESPs act as temporary companions which the decker can summon using these "items". They're not very strong, especially without investment in the ESP Control skill, but they do automatically replenish between missions. They're more of a luxury purchase than a necessity so we won't get any at least for now.  Last but certainly not least we have a truckload of different programs, which is Matrix language for "spells". They're dirt cheap, so there's no reason for us not to buy as many as we can equip. Our final haul ends up being the Renraku Kraftwerk-1 deck together with the Blaster, Killer, Medic and Sniffer programs.  Oh I'm being rude, let me also introduce you to our resident decker and my good friend Johnny Clean. I don't know about heat or invisibility, but teleportation certainly does seem to be on his list of superpowers.  Good to see you down here, happy to be of help if I can be.We could ask him about decking and he'd give us a brief tutorial as well but we'll cover that when we get there. Why are you dressed as a janitor? Did I stand out upstairs? No. Janitors never do. When I was younger, I had a rep for getting in and getting out of systems so cleanly that no one knew I was there. Half the Matrix runs that earned me my rep were made possible because I was able to get inside the facility posing as a janitor. Now it's just sort of a part of me. Is it true that you were part of the Echo Mirage team?This question comes a little out of nowhere, huh? The short version of the Echo Mirage is that they were a badass squad of deckers (amongst the first on that field) trained by the US government. Together with an AI they eventually stopped an immensely destructive computer virus around 2030, but they were so good at bypassing security systems that the same government wanted them dead afterwards. Let me take this one. Listen, I've known the guy for over a decade and he's been smart enough not to tell me. So he is sure as hell not going to tell you anything about those days. For your health and his, best to let the subject drop. Fair enough. See you guys around.Moving on to the next fella.  [When he speaks, the ork's voice is soft and thoughtful, and he talks almost exclusively in numbers: calibers, ranges, rounds per second, arc of fire, razoring factor, tensile strength and, of course, price.] I'd be real careful with my words too if I were him, you don't get to bite your tongue by accident more than once with fangs like that.  Bunker Buster Gruberman, at your service. Friends call me Buster. I also answer to Sergeant, Sir, and even Theodore on occasion. Anytime you're in the market for firearms, ammunition, or ordinance, I'm your man. How can I help you? What exactly do you sell here? Things that go bang in all shapes and sizes, plus other odds and ends, on occasion. Consider me your own personal armory. All weapons are guaranteed to meet strict UCAS military spec or your money back. In addition, I can handle routine maintenance, repairs, and upgrades, if you so desire."Strict UCAS military spec" apparently includes baseball bats and makeshit home-made shotguns.  His store is almost identical to Jin Parks' from before, but also with one weapon tier higher. Not much we haven't seen before and no bayonets either, so we just move on to the final new face.   Good evening, young elf, and welcome to this humble home that we call the Union. I am Aljernon Half-Dream. To ease your way through the Sixth World, I offer you the best in magical foci, spells and fetishes for the conjuring of spirits. Like Noog from earlier, Aljernon sells strictly magic stuff for the spellcaster classes, none of which we can use at all. Very exciting. Eric has nothing to say either, so it's time to go see how Coyote's holding up. But we'll leave that to the second half of this update. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 06:45 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 20:14
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It's always great to see the shopkeepers for the first time. Nothing like looking at some of them and going "yep, never going to talk to you ever again".
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May 18, 2017 20:32
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TheMcD posted:It's always great to see the shopkeepers for the first time. Nothing like looking at some of them and going "yep, never going to talk to you ever again". Yeah, they did a better job with this in df/hk, but in this one you can safely ignore at least one person per game...forever. e: I assume the best shopkeeper is in the second half of the update, though Buster always entertained me more than he should've.
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May 18, 2017 21:00
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Man but that song does sound familiar. Maybe an off-version of the dialogue music from the SNES game?
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May 19, 2017 00:03
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Oh, your crew's got fixed equipment? One of my favorite parts of the Genesis game was upgrading everyone's gear.
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May 19, 2017 03:07
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Glazius posted:Oh, your crew's got fixed equipment? One of my favorite parts of the Genesis game was upgrading everyone's gear. Also fixed skills, and they don't go as high as they should. Even for the final mission I couldn't find a single NPC rigger who could use the best class of drones OR get the +1 AP bonus for them. Also, no NPC Decker ever gets enough skill to use the best deck. I imagine all the NPCS are underpowered in their own fields.
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May 19, 2017 06:41
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DGM_2 posted:Also fixed skills, and they don't go as high as they should. Even for the final mission I couldn't find a single NPC rigger who could use the best class of drones OR get the +1 AP bonus for them. Also, no NPC Decker ever gets enough skill to use the best deck. I imagine all the NPCS are underpowered in their own fields.
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May 19, 2017 07:11
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I wonder how she keeps that place secret if at least half-a-dozen people have to go in and out every day. (I'm assuming they don't live down there, and have homes to go to when they're not working). Of course, in most* computer RPGs a shopkeeper NPC is usually just a glorified vending machine with extra dialogue and sometimes a quest or two, but if this were a tabletop session I'd be wondering about the second (or third?) secret entrance to this place, the one the shopkeepers use when they go home or come to work. * Except Skyrim, where every single shopkeeper has a home (or at least a place to sleep) and when they're done with their business hours, they close up shop and go home, or sometimes to the tavern for a bite to eat and a drink before they go home. Makes the world feel more realistic and lived-in, but it's also more inconvenient for the player if fast travel landed them in town right at 6:01 PM and the shopkeeper won't do business with them until fourteen in-game hours later. Which is, of course, why most computer RPGs go for the "shopkeepers are always around day or night and don't have lives outside the shop" approach. Edit: Oh dear, I just noticed this:   Fry's Electronics, huh? Tax Refund fucked around with this message at 09:06 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 09:04
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